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Re: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?

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  • Perrin Harkins
    ... Perhaps you could explain what you re trying to do? - Perrin -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info:
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 1 10:34 PM
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      On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:24, kfr wrote:
      > Any one out there know of some way, either from java or SLL or some other
      > combination, to collect any kind of machine specific information from a web
      > client logging into a site with SSL (Apache/mod_perl mod_ssl)? I need to
      > find some way to uniquely identify a 'machine', like possible grabbing it's
      > mac address would be ideal but obviously that can't be done ...
      >
      > Any clues?

      Perhaps you could explain what you're trying to do?

      - Perrin


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    • kfr
      Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we ve been getting fraudulent
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 2 11:23 AM
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        Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
        monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we've been getting
        fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
        who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
        bogus CC for access. The only way that I'm aware of to do that is to grab
        something specific to that piece of hardware or computer. Does that make
        sense? ... impossible? ... or is there a better way?

        K



        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Perrin Harkins [mailto:perrin@...]
        >Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 10:35 PM
        >To: kirk.rogers@...
        >Cc: modperl@...
        >Subject: Re: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?
        >
        >
        >On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:24, kfr wrote:
        >> Any one out there know of some way, either from java or SLL or some other
        >> combination, to collect any kind of machine specific information
        >from a web
        >> client logging into a site with SSL (Apache/mod_perl mod_ssl)? I need to
        >> find some way to uniquely identify a 'machine', like possible
        >grabbing it's
        >> mac address would be ideal but obviously that can't be done ...
        >>
        >> Any clues?
        >
        >Perhaps you could explain what you're trying to do?
        >
        >- Perrin
        >



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      • Tofu Optimist
        Hi folks -- I m using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading CGI for 2 reasons: (1) To save memory. (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the require Apache
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 2 11:32 AM
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          Hi folks --

          I'm using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading CGI
          for 2 reasons:

          (1) To save memory.

          (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the "require
          Apache" (line 161), and I'd prefer not to edit CGI on
          my server. Uck.

          Given I'm not loading CGI, how can I determine
          self_url() in MP2?

          I tried something like this
          <code>
          my $self_uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
          $r->uri)->unparse;
          $r->headers_out->set(Location => $self_uri .
          "&r2=1");
          return Apache::REDIRECT;
          </code>
          but this gives me a partial URL, not the full
          expansion.

          Thanks for any assistance.

          -TO


          __________________________________
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        • Perrin Harkins
          ... Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunatey, there s no foolproof way that I m aware of. To begin with, you can try using a cookie. This will stop anyone who
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 2 11:40 AM
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            On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:23, kfr wrote:
            > Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
            > monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we've been getting
            > fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
            > who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
            > bogus CC for access.

            Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunatey, there's no foolproof way that I'm
            aware of. To begin with, you can try using a cookie. This will stop
            anyone who is not very technical. Beyond that, I have heard that
            there's some kind of unique identifier in SSL that you may be able to
            use. I know this because the f5 big/ip load balancers used it. Check
            into that.

            - Perrin


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          • Stas Bekman
            ... $r- construct_url; From the C docs: /* Used for constructing self-referencing URLs, and things like SERVER_PORT, * and SERVER_NAME. */ /** * build a fully
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 2 11:54 AM
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              Tofu Optimist wrote:
              > Hi folks --
              >
              > I'm using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading CGI
              > for 2 reasons:
              >
              > (1) To save memory.
              >
              > (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the "require
              > Apache" (line 161), and I'd prefer not to edit CGI on
              > my server. Uck.
              >
              > Given I'm not loading CGI, how can I determine
              > self_url() in MP2?
              >
              > I tried something like this
              > <code>
              > my $self_uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
              > $r->uri)->unparse;
              > $r->headers_out->set(Location => $self_uri .
              > "&r2=1");
              > return Apache::REDIRECT;
              > </code>
              > but this gives me a partial URL, not the full
              > expansion.

              $r->construct_url;

              From the C docs:

              /* Used for constructing self-referencing URLs, and things like SERVER_PORT,
              * and SERVER_NAME.
              */
              /**
              * build a fully qualified URL from the uri and information in the request rec
              * @param p The pool to allocate the URL from
              * @param uri The path to the requested file
              * @param r The current request
              * @return A fully qualified URL
              * @deffunc char *ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p, const char *uri,
              request_rec *r)
              */
              AP_DECLARE(char *) ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p, const char *uri,
              request_rec *r);

              __________________________________________________________________
              Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
              http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
              mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
              http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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            • Tofu Optimist
              Thanks. How do I call construct_uri? Neither my $uri = APR::URI- parse($r- pool, $r- construct_url($r- pool, $r- uri, $r)); $uri .= r2=1 ;
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 2 12:06 PM
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                Thanks. How do I call construct_uri?

                Neither

                my $uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
                $r->construct_url($r->pool, $r->uri, $r));
                $uri .= "r2=1";
                $r->headers_out->set(Location => $uri .
                "&r2=1");
                return Apache::REDIRECT;


                nor

                my $uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
                $r->construct_url);
                $uri .= "r2=1";
                $r->headers_out->set(Location => $uri .
                "&r2=1");
                return Apache::REDIRECT;

                works.

                Thanks Stas for all your patience and help!



                --- Stas Bekman <stas@...> wrote:
                > Tofu Optimist wrote:
                > > Hi folks --
                > >
                > > I'm using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading
                > CGI
                > > for 2 reasons:
                > >
                > > (1) To save memory.
                > >
                > > (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the "require
                > > Apache" (line 161), and I'd prefer not to edit CGI
                > on
                > > my server. Uck.
                > >
                > > Given I'm not loading CGI, how can I determine
                > > self_url() in MP2?
                > >
                > > I tried something like this
                > > <code>
                > > my $self_uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
                > > $r->uri)->unparse;
                > > $r->headers_out->set(Location => $self_uri
                > .
                > > "&r2=1");
                > > return Apache::REDIRECT;
                > > </code>
                > > but this gives me a partial URL, not the full
                > > expansion.
                >
                > $r->construct_url;
                >
                > From the C docs:
                >
                > /* Used for constructing self-referencing URLs, and
                > things like SERVER_PORT,
                > * and SERVER_NAME.
                > */
                > /**
                > * build a fully qualified URL from the uri and
                > information in the request rec
                > * @param p The pool to allocate the URL from
                > * @param uri The path to the requested file
                > * @param r The current request
                > * @return A fully qualified URL
                > * @deffunc char *ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p,
                > const char *uri,
                > request_rec *r)
                > */
                > AP_DECLARE(char *) ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p,
                > const char *uri,
                > request_rec *r);
                >
                >
                __________________________________________________________________
                > Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another
                > mod_perl Hacker
                > http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide --->
                > http://perl.apache.org
                > mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org
                > http://apacheweek.com
                > http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org
                > http://ticketmaster.com
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                > Mail list info:
                > http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                >


                __________________________________
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              • Stas Bekman
                ... You just call $r- construct_url. In your example that would be: $r- headers_out- set(Location = $r- construct_url . &r2=1 );
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 2 12:19 PM
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                  Tofu Optimist wrote:
                  > Thanks. How do I call construct_uri?

                  You just call $r->construct_url. In your example that would be:

                  $r->headers_out->set(Location => $r->construct_url . "&r2=1");

                  __________________________________________________________________
                  Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                  http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                  mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                  http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                • Stas Bekman
                  [please keep the thread on the list!] ... in mp2 you need to load modules that contain the methods that you want to use: % lookup construct_url To use method
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 2 12:27 PM
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                    [please keep the thread on the list!]

                    Tofu Optimist wrote:
                    > :(
                    >
                    > [Tue Sep 02 15:22:53 2003] [error] [client
                    > 192.168.1.2] Can't locate object method
                    > "construct_url" via package "Apache::RequestRec" at
                    > /home/xxxxxxxx/mod-perl/Redirect.pm line 59.
                    >
                    > Do I need to load it or something?

                    in mp2 you need to load modules that contain the methods that you want to use:

                    % lookup construct_url
                    To use method 'construct_url' add:
                    use Apache::URI ();

                    See:
                    http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/user/porting/porting.html#Porting_a_Perl_Module_to_Run_under_mod_perl_2_0


                    >>You just call $r->construct_url. In your example
                    >>that would be:
                    >>
                    >> $r->headers_out->set(Location =>
                    >>$r->construct_url . "&r2=1");
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________________________
                    >
                    >>Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another
                    >>mod_perl Hacker
                    >>http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide --->
                    >>http://perl.apache.org
                    >>mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org
                    >>http://apacheweek.com
                    >>http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org
                    >>http://ticketmaster.com
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>--
                    >>Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                    >>Mail list info:
                    >>http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                    > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


                    --


                    __________________________________________________________________
                    Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                    http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                    mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                    http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                  • Roger Davenport
                    Apologies.. yes, this was meant for the list!! Roger
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 2 12:55 PM
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                      Apologies..  yes, this was meant for the list!!

                      Roger

                      On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:29, Perrin Harkins wrote:
                      Did you mean to send this to the list?  It only went to me.
                      
                      On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 15:23, Roger Davenport wrote:
                      > The session ID only lasts a certain time.. anywhere from a couple of
                      > minutes to a couple of days (varies widely).  SSLv2 is 16 bytes, and
                      > SSLv3/TLS is anywhere from 1 to 32 bytes.  The session ID is
                      > essentially a value which saves the client and server from having to
                      > handshake every time.  But if you get a matching value, chances are
                      > that you have the same machine if it's within a reasonable amount of
                      > time.
                      > 
                      > Roger
                      > 
                      > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:40, Perrin Harkins wrote: 
                      > > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:23, kfr wrote:
                      > > > Yes, sorry.  I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
                      > > > monthly credit card subscription.  The problem is we've been getting
                      > > > fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
                      > > > who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
                      > > > bogus CC for access.
                      > > 
                      > > Okay, that makes sense.  Unfortunatey, there's no foolproof way that I'm
                      > > aware of.  To begin with, you can try using a cookie.  This will stop
                      > > anyone who is not very technical.  Beyond that, I have heard that
                      > > there's some kind of unique identifier in SSL that you may be able to
                      > > use.  I know this because the f5 big/ip load balancers used it.  Check
                      > > into that.
                      > > 
                      > > - Perrin
                    • kfr
                      Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request? I ve been looking all over the place and cant seem to find any reference to it anywhere ... K ... From:
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 3 9:22 AM
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                        Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request? I've been looking all over the place and cant seem to find any reference to it anywhere ...

                        K





                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Roger Davenport [mailto:rdavenport@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:55 PM
                        To: Perrin Harkins
                        Cc: modperl@...
                        Subject: RE: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?


                        Apologies.. yes, this was meant for the list!!

                        Roger

                        On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:29, Perrin Harkins wrote:
                        Did you mean to send this to the list? It only went to me.

                        On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 15:23, Roger Davenport wrote:
                        > The session ID only lasts a certain time.. anywhere from a couple of
                        > minutes to a couple of days (varies widely). SSLv2 is 16 bytes, and
                        > SSLv3/TLS is anywhere from 1 to 32 bytes. The session ID is
                        > essentially a value which saves the client and server from having to
                        > handshake every time. But if you get a matching value, chances are
                        > that you have the same machine if it's within a reasonable amount of
                        > time.
                        >
                        > Roger
                        >
                        > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:40, Perrin Harkins wrote:
                        > > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:23, kfr wrote:
                        > > > Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
                        > > > monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we've been getting
                        > > > fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
                        > > > who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
                        > > > bogus CC for access.
                        > >
                        > > Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunatey, there's no foolproof way that I'm
                        > > aware of. To begin with, you can try using a cookie. This will stop
                        > > anyone who is not very technical. Beyond that, I have heard that
                        > > there's some kind of unique identifier in SSL that you may be able to
                        > > use. I know this because the f5 big/ip load balancers used it. Check
                        > > into that.
                        > >
                        > > - Perrin



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                      • Perrin Harkins
                        ... According to the mod_ssl manual, it is stored in an environment variable called SSL_SESSION_ID. - Perrin -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 3 9:37 AM
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                          On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 12:22, kfr wrote:
                          > Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request?

                          According to the mod_ssl manual, it is stored in an environment variable
                          called SSL_SESSION_ID.

                          - Perrin



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                        • Ged Haywood
                          Hi there, ... What makes you think there ll be one in there? ... Try Google? 73, Ged. -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info:
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 3 10:21 AM
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                            Hi there,

                            On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, kfr wrote:

                            > Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request?

                            What makes you think there'll be one in there?

                            > I've been looking all over the place and cant seem to find any
                            > reference to it anywhere ...

                            Try Google?

                            73,
                            Ged.



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                          • Stas Bekman
                            ... You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it d be: use APR::UUID: my $uuid = APR::UUID- new- format; or from the command line (assuming that you
                            Message 13 of 22 , Sep 3 10:42 AM
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                              kfr wrote:
                              > Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request? I've been looking all
                              > over the place and cant seem to find any reference to it anywhere ...

                              You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it'd be:

                              use APR::UUID:
                              my $uuid = APR::UUID->new->format;

                              or from the command line (assuming that you are using the latest cvs):

                              perl -MApache2 -MAPR -MAPR::UUID -le 'print APR::UUID->new->format'

                              __________________________________________________________________
                              Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                              http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                              mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                              http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                            • John Saylor
                              hi ... is there an equivalent in mod_perl1? -- js -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                              Message 14 of 22 , Sep 3 12:03 PM
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                                hi

                                ( 03.09.03 10:42 -0700 ) Stas Bekman:
                                > You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it'd be:

                                is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?

                                --
                                \js



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                              • Perrin Harkins
                                ... Use Data::UUID from CPAN or mod_unique_id. Note that this (and the mod_perl 2 approach Stas posted) has nothing to do with identifying the actual client,
                                Message 15 of 22 , Sep 3 12:28 PM
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                                  On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:03, John Saylor wrote:
                                  > is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?

                                  Use Data::UUID from CPAN or mod_unique_id. Note that this (and the
                                  mod_perl 2 approach Stas posted) has nothing to do with identifying the
                                  actual client, which is what the original question on this thread was
                                  about.

                                  - Perrin


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                                • Stas Bekman
                                  ... I m sure there are a few modules on CPAN that you can use. Again I m talking about generating UUD, not extracting the SSL one. Perrin has replied that you
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Sep 3 12:44 PM
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                                    John Saylor wrote:
                                    > hi
                                    >
                                    > ( 03.09.03 10:42 -0700 ) Stas Bekman:
                                    >
                                    >>You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it'd be:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?

                                    I'm sure there are a few modules on CPAN that you can use. Again I'm talking
                                    about generating UUD, not extracting the SSL one. Perrin has replied that you
                                    need $ENV{SSL_SESSION_ID} for the SSL one.




                                    __________________________________________________________________
                                    Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                                    http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                                    mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                                    http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                                  • kfr
                                    I m able to see it now ... had to re-compile my server with mod_ssl (not apache-ssl) and I can see the SSL_SESSION_ID. So I take it there s no way to decrypt
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Sep 3 2:05 PM
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                                      I'm able to see it now ... had to re-compile my server with mod_ssl (not
                                      apache-ssl) and I can see the SSL_SESSION_ID. So I take it there's no way
                                      to decrypt that and grab anything useful out of it other than it's one time
                                      uniqueness? The doc's state its a combo of a few different parameters
                                      (timestamp, hardware address, etc), which the hardware address is really
                                      what I'm after.

                                      K



                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                      >From: Perrin Harkins [mailto:perrin@...]
                                      >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:28 PM
                                      >To: John Saylor
                                      >Cc: modperl@...
                                      >Subject: Re: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:03, John Saylor wrote:
                                      >> is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?
                                      >
                                      >Use Data::UUID from CPAN or mod_unique_id. Note that this (and the
                                      >mod_perl 2 approach Stas posted) has nothing to do with identifying the
                                      >actual client, which is what the original question on this thread was
                                      >about.
                                      >
                                      >- Perrin
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >--
                                      >Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                                      >Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                                      >
                                      >



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                                    • Ged Haywood
                                      Hi there, ... What hardware? 73, Ged. -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Sep 3 3:01 PM
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                                        Hi there,

                                        On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, kfr wrote:

                                        > had to re-compile my server with mod_ssl

                                        :)

                                        > the hardware address is really what I'm after.

                                        What hardware?

                                        73,
                                        Ged.



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