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Re: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?

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  • Perrin Harkins
    ... Perhaps you could explain what you re trying to do? - Perrin -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info:
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 1, 2003
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      On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:24, kfr wrote:
      > Any one out there know of some way, either from java or SLL or some other
      > combination, to collect any kind of machine specific information from a web
      > client logging into a site with SSL (Apache/mod_perl mod_ssl)? I need to
      > find some way to uniquely identify a 'machine', like possible grabbing it's
      > mac address would be ideal but obviously that can't be done ...
      >
      > Any clues?

      Perhaps you could explain what you're trying to do?

      - Perrin


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    • Issac Goldstand
      Right now Apache::Request is in the final proting stages... Until it s done, jjust request Apache::Request with CGI Issac ... From: Tofu Optimist
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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        Right now Apache::Request is in the final proting stages... Until it's done,
        jjust request Apache::Request with CGI

        Issac

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Tofu Optimist" <tofu_optimist@...>
        To: <modperl@...>
        Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:43 PM
        Subject: post max and MP2


        > Hello --
        >
        > I'm moving a module from MP1 to MP2.
        > What is the MP2 equivalent of this code?
        > Thanks!
        >
        > <code>
        > my $q = Apache::Request->new($r,
        > POST_MAX => 10 * 1024,
        > DISABLE_UPLOADS => 1);
        > $q->no_cache(1);
        > </code>
        >
        > __________________________________
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        > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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        >
        >
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        >




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      • kfr
        Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we ve been getting fraudulent
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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          Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
          monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we've been getting
          fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
          who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
          bogus CC for access. The only way that I'm aware of to do that is to grab
          something specific to that piece of hardware or computer. Does that make
          sense? ... impossible? ... or is there a better way?

          K



          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Perrin Harkins [mailto:perrin@...]
          >Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 10:35 PM
          >To: kirk.rogers@...
          >Cc: modperl@...
          >Subject: Re: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?
          >
          >
          >On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:24, kfr wrote:
          >> Any one out there know of some way, either from java or SLL or some other
          >> combination, to collect any kind of machine specific information
          >from a web
          >> client logging into a site with SSL (Apache/mod_perl mod_ssl)? I need to
          >> find some way to uniquely identify a 'machine', like possible
          >grabbing it's
          >> mac address would be ideal but obviously that can't be done ...
          >>
          >> Any clues?
          >
          >Perhaps you could explain what you're trying to do?
          >
          >- Perrin
          >



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        • Tofu Optimist
          Hi folks -- I m using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading CGI for 2 reasons: (1) To save memory. (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the require Apache
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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            Hi folks --

            I'm using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading CGI
            for 2 reasons:

            (1) To save memory.

            (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the "require
            Apache" (line 161), and I'd prefer not to edit CGI on
            my server. Uck.

            Given I'm not loading CGI, how can I determine
            self_url() in MP2?

            I tried something like this
            <code>
            my $self_uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
            $r->uri)->unparse;
            $r->headers_out->set(Location => $self_uri .
            "&r2=1");
            return Apache::REDIRECT;
            </code>
            but this gives me a partial URL, not the full
            expansion.

            Thanks for any assistance.

            -TO


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          • Perrin Harkins
            ... Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunatey, there s no foolproof way that I m aware of. To begin with, you can try using a cookie. This will stop anyone who
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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              On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:23, kfr wrote:
              > Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
              > monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we've been getting
              > fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
              > who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
              > bogus CC for access.

              Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunatey, there's no foolproof way that I'm
              aware of. To begin with, you can try using a cookie. This will stop
              anyone who is not very technical. Beyond that, I have heard that
              there's some kind of unique identifier in SSL that you may be able to
              use. I know this because the f5 big/ip load balancers used it. Check
              into that.

              - Perrin


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            • Stas Bekman
              ... $r- construct_url; From the C docs: /* Used for constructing self-referencing URLs, and things like SERVER_PORT, * and SERVER_NAME. */ /** * build a fully
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                Tofu Optimist wrote:
                > Hi folks --
                >
                > I'm using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading CGI
                > for 2 reasons:
                >
                > (1) To save memory.
                >
                > (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the "require
                > Apache" (line 161), and I'd prefer not to edit CGI on
                > my server. Uck.
                >
                > Given I'm not loading CGI, how can I determine
                > self_url() in MP2?
                >
                > I tried something like this
                > <code>
                > my $self_uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
                > $r->uri)->unparse;
                > $r->headers_out->set(Location => $self_uri .
                > "&r2=1");
                > return Apache::REDIRECT;
                > </code>
                > but this gives me a partial URL, not the full
                > expansion.

                $r->construct_url;

                From the C docs:

                /* Used for constructing self-referencing URLs, and things like SERVER_PORT,
                * and SERVER_NAME.
                */
                /**
                * build a fully qualified URL from the uri and information in the request rec
                * @param p The pool to allocate the URL from
                * @param uri The path to the requested file
                * @param r The current request
                * @return A fully qualified URL
                * @deffunc char *ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p, const char *uri,
                request_rec *r)
                */
                AP_DECLARE(char *) ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p, const char *uri,
                request_rec *r);

                __________________________________________________________________
                Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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              • Tofu Optimist
                Thanks. How do I call construct_uri? Neither my $uri = APR::URI- parse($r- pool, $r- construct_url($r- pool, $r- uri, $r)); $uri .= r2=1 ;
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                  Thanks. How do I call construct_uri?

                  Neither

                  my $uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
                  $r->construct_url($r->pool, $r->uri, $r));
                  $uri .= "r2=1";
                  $r->headers_out->set(Location => $uri .
                  "&r2=1");
                  return Apache::REDIRECT;


                  nor

                  my $uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
                  $r->construct_url);
                  $uri .= "r2=1";
                  $r->headers_out->set(Location => $uri .
                  "&r2=1");
                  return Apache::REDIRECT;

                  works.

                  Thanks Stas for all your patience and help!



                  --- Stas Bekman <stas@...> wrote:
                  > Tofu Optimist wrote:
                  > > Hi folks --
                  > >
                  > > I'm using MP2, and I am trying to avoid loading
                  > CGI
                  > > for 2 reasons:
                  > >
                  > > (1) To save memory.
                  > >
                  > > (2) When I do load CGI, it fails at the "require
                  > > Apache" (line 161), and I'd prefer not to edit CGI
                  > on
                  > > my server. Uck.
                  > >
                  > > Given I'm not loading CGI, how can I determine
                  > > self_url() in MP2?
                  > >
                  > > I tried something like this
                  > > <code>
                  > > my $self_uri = APR::URI->parse($r->pool,
                  > > $r->uri)->unparse;
                  > > $r->headers_out->set(Location => $self_uri
                  > .
                  > > "&r2=1");
                  > > return Apache::REDIRECT;
                  > > </code>
                  > > but this gives me a partial URL, not the full
                  > > expansion.
                  >
                  > $r->construct_url;
                  >
                  > From the C docs:
                  >
                  > /* Used for constructing self-referencing URLs, and
                  > things like SERVER_PORT,
                  > * and SERVER_NAME.
                  > */
                  > /**
                  > * build a fully qualified URL from the uri and
                  > information in the request rec
                  > * @param p The pool to allocate the URL from
                  > * @param uri The path to the requested file
                  > * @param r The current request
                  > * @return A fully qualified URL
                  > * @deffunc char *ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p,
                  > const char *uri,
                  > request_rec *r)
                  > */
                  > AP_DECLARE(char *) ap_construct_url(apr_pool_t *p,
                  > const char *uri,
                  > request_rec *r);
                  >
                  >
                  __________________________________________________________________
                  > Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another
                  > mod_perl Hacker
                  > http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide --->
                  > http://perl.apache.org
                  > mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org
                  > http://apacheweek.com
                  > http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org
                  > http://ticketmaster.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                  > Mail list info:
                  > http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                  >


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                • Stas Bekman
                  ... You just call $r- construct_url. In your example that would be: $r- headers_out- set(Location = $r- construct_url . &r2=1 );
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                    Tofu Optimist wrote:
                    > Thanks. How do I call construct_uri?

                    You just call $r->construct_url. In your example that would be:

                    $r->headers_out->set(Location => $r->construct_url . "&r2=1");

                    __________________________________________________________________
                    Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                    http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                    mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                    http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                  • Stas Bekman
                    [please keep the thread on the list!] ... in mp2 you need to load modules that contain the methods that you want to use: % lookup construct_url To use method
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                      [please keep the thread on the list!]

                      Tofu Optimist wrote:
                      > :(
                      >
                      > [Tue Sep 02 15:22:53 2003] [error] [client
                      > 192.168.1.2] Can't locate object method
                      > "construct_url" via package "Apache::RequestRec" at
                      > /home/xxxxxxxx/mod-perl/Redirect.pm line 59.
                      >
                      > Do I need to load it or something?

                      in mp2 you need to load modules that contain the methods that you want to use:

                      % lookup construct_url
                      To use method 'construct_url' add:
                      use Apache::URI ();

                      See:
                      http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/user/porting/porting.html#Porting_a_Perl_Module_to_Run_under_mod_perl_2_0


                      >>You just call $r->construct_url. In your example
                      >>that would be:
                      >>
                      >> $r->headers_out->set(Location =>
                      >>$r->construct_url . "&r2=1");
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________________________
                      >
                      >>Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another
                      >>mod_perl Hacker
                      >>http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide --->
                      >>http://perl.apache.org
                      >>mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org
                      >>http://apacheweek.com
                      >>http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org
                      >>http://ticketmaster.com
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>--
                      >>Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                      >>Mail list info:
                      >>http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                      > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


                      --


                      __________________________________________________________________
                      Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                      http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                      mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                      http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                    • Roger Davenport
                      Apologies.. yes, this was meant for the list!! Roger
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 2, 2003
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                        Apologies..  yes, this was meant for the list!!

                        Roger

                        On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:29, Perrin Harkins wrote:
                        Did you mean to send this to the list?  It only went to me.
                        
                        On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 15:23, Roger Davenport wrote:
                        > The session ID only lasts a certain time.. anywhere from a couple of
                        > minutes to a couple of days (varies widely).  SSLv2 is 16 bytes, and
                        > SSLv3/TLS is anywhere from 1 to 32 bytes.  The session ID is
                        > essentially a value which saves the client and server from having to
                        > handshake every time.  But if you get a matching value, chances are
                        > that you have the same machine if it's within a reasonable amount of
                        > time.
                        > 
                        > Roger
                        > 
                        > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:40, Perrin Harkins wrote: 
                        > > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:23, kfr wrote:
                        > > > Yes, sorry.  I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
                        > > > monthly credit card subscription.  The problem is we've been getting
                        > > > fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
                        > > > who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
                        > > > bogus CC for access.
                        > > 
                        > > Okay, that makes sense.  Unfortunatey, there's no foolproof way that I'm
                        > > aware of.  To begin with, you can try using a cookie.  This will stop
                        > > anyone who is not very technical.  Beyond that, I have heard that
                        > > there's some kind of unique identifier in SSL that you may be able to
                        > > use.  I know this because the f5 big/ip load balancers used it.  Check
                        > > into that.
                        > > 
                        > > - Perrin
                      • kfr
                        Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request? I ve been looking all over the place and cant seem to find any reference to it anywhere ... K ... From:
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                          Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request? I've been looking all over the place and cant seem to find any reference to it anywhere ...

                          K





                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Roger Davenport [mailto:rdavenport@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:55 PM
                          To: Perrin Harkins
                          Cc: modperl@...
                          Subject: RE: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?


                          Apologies.. yes, this was meant for the list!!

                          Roger

                          On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:29, Perrin Harkins wrote:
                          Did you mean to send this to the list? It only went to me.

                          On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 15:23, Roger Davenport wrote:
                          > The session ID only lasts a certain time.. anywhere from a couple of
                          > minutes to a couple of days (varies widely). SSLv2 is 16 bytes, and
                          > SSLv3/TLS is anywhere from 1 to 32 bytes. The session ID is
                          > essentially a value which saves the client and server from having to
                          > handshake every time. But if you get a matching value, chances are
                          > that you have the same machine if it's within a reasonable amount of
                          > time.
                          >
                          > Roger
                          >
                          > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 13:40, Perrin Harkins wrote:
                          > > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:23, kfr wrote:
                          > > > Yes, sorry. I have a site that allows my customers to become members via
                          > > > monthly credit card subscription. The problem is we've been getting
                          > > > fraudulent credit card transactions and need some mechanism to detect a user
                          > > > who is a repeat offender so I can detect them trying to submit yet another
                          > > > bogus CC for access.
                          > >
                          > > Okay, that makes sense. Unfortunatey, there's no foolproof way that I'm
                          > > aware of. To begin with, you can try using a cookie. This will stop
                          > > anyone who is not very technical. Beyond that, I have heard that
                          > > there's some kind of unique identifier in SSL that you may be able to
                          > > use. I know this because the f5 big/ip load balancers used it. Check
                          > > into that.
                          > >
                          > > - Perrin



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                        • Perrin Harkins
                          ... According to the mod_ssl manual, it is stored in an environment variable called SSL_SESSION_ID. - Perrin -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                            On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 12:22, kfr wrote:
                            > Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request?

                            According to the mod_ssl manual, it is stored in an environment variable
                            called SSL_SESSION_ID.

                            - Perrin



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                          • Ged Haywood
                            Hi there, ... What makes you think there ll be one in there? ... Try Google? 73, Ged. -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info:
                            Message 13 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                              Hi there,

                              On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, kfr wrote:

                              > Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request?

                              What makes you think there'll be one in there?

                              > I've been looking all over the place and cant seem to find any
                              > reference to it anywhere ...

                              Try Google?

                              73,
                              Ged.



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                            • Stas Bekman
                              ... You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it d be: use APR::UUID: my $uuid = APR::UUID- new- format; or from the command line (assuming that you
                              Message 14 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                kfr wrote:
                                > Anyone know how to capture the UUID from a request? I've been looking all
                                > over the place and cant seem to find any reference to it anywhere ...

                                You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it'd be:

                                use APR::UUID:
                                my $uuid = APR::UUID->new->format;

                                or from the command line (assuming that you are using the latest cvs):

                                perl -MApache2 -MAPR -MAPR::UUID -le 'print APR::UUID->new->format'

                                __________________________________________________________________
                                Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                                http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                                mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                                http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                              • John Saylor
                                hi ... is there an equivalent in mod_perl1? -- js -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                                Message 15 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                  hi

                                  ( 03.09.03 10:42 -0700 ) Stas Bekman:
                                  > You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it'd be:

                                  is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?

                                  --
                                  \js



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                                • Perrin Harkins
                                  ... Use Data::UUID from CPAN or mod_unique_id. Note that this (and the mod_perl 2 approach Stas posted) has nothing to do with identifying the actual client,
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                    On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:03, John Saylor wrote:
                                    > is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?

                                    Use Data::UUID from CPAN or mod_unique_id. Note that this (and the
                                    mod_perl 2 approach Stas posted) has nothing to do with identifying the
                                    actual client, which is what the original question on this thread was
                                    about.

                                    - Perrin


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                                  • Stas Bekman
                                    ... I m sure there are a few modules on CPAN that you can use. Again I m talking about generating UUD, not extracting the SSL one. Perrin has replied that you
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                      John Saylor wrote:
                                      > hi
                                      >
                                      > ( 03.09.03 10:42 -0700 ) Stas Bekman:
                                      >
                                      >>You mean, you want to generate one? in mod_perl2/apr it'd be:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?

                                      I'm sure there are a few modules on CPAN that you can use. Again I'm talking
                                      about generating UUD, not extracting the SSL one. Perrin has replied that you
                                      need $ENV{SSL_SESSION_ID} for the SSL one.




                                      __________________________________________________________________
                                      Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
                                      http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
                                      mailto:stas@... http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
                                      http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com



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                                    • kfr
                                      I m able to see it now ... had to re-compile my server with mod_ssl (not apache-ssl) and I can see the SSL_SESSION_ID. So I take it there s no way to decrypt
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                        I'm able to see it now ... had to re-compile my server with mod_ssl (not
                                        apache-ssl) and I can see the SSL_SESSION_ID. So I take it there's no way
                                        to decrypt that and grab anything useful out of it other than it's one time
                                        uniqueness? The doc's state its a combo of a few different parameters
                                        (timestamp, hardware address, etc), which the hardware address is really
                                        what I'm after.

                                        K



                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                        >From: Perrin Harkins [mailto:perrin@...]
                                        >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:28 PM
                                        >To: John Saylor
                                        >Cc: modperl@...
                                        >Subject: Re: collecting unique client (computer) specific info?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:03, John Saylor wrote:
                                        >> is there an equivalent in mod_perl1?
                                        >
                                        >Use Data::UUID from CPAN or mod_unique_id. Note that this (and the
                                        >mod_perl 2 approach Stas posted) has nothing to do with identifying the
                                        >actual client, which is what the original question on this thread was
                                        >about.
                                        >
                                        >- Perrin
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >--
                                        >Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/
                                        >Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                                        >
                                        >



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                                      • Ged Haywood
                                        Hi there, ... What hardware? 73, Ged. -- Reporting bugs: http://perl.apache.org/bugs/ Mail list info: http://perl.apache.org/maillist/modperl.html
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Sep 3, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi there,

                                          On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, kfr wrote:

                                          > had to re-compile my server with mod_ssl

                                          :)

                                          > the hardware address is really what I'm after.

                                          What hardware?

                                          73,
                                          Ged.



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