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Re: JW Early Supported By Latest US Supreme Court Decision...but too late!!!

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  • andyf1108
    Yes - a different situation. This decision would have allowed JWE to acquire original paper copies (new or secondhand) of Model Engineer in the UK (or anywhere
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 22, 2013
      Yes - a different situation. This decision would have allowed JWE to acquire original paper copies (new or secondhand) of Model Engineer in the UK (or anywhere outside the US) and distribute those paper copies by way of sale gift or (probably) hire within the US.

      The decision does not extend to reproducing, including in electronic form, parts of those paper copies and distributing the reproductions by, for example, putting them in the Files section of this group.

      If paper copies are imported and distributed, the copyright owner has had payment for each copy. But if they are reproduced, he hasn't.

      Andy

      --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Read the LA Times article
      > >
      > > <http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-court-copyright-
      > > 20130320,0,6312211.story>
      > >
      > > Too bad James is not still around - he could have shoved this into
      > Magicallia
      > > Limited's face!!!
      >
      >
      > Ah, no. Totally different situation.
      >
      > Tony
      >
    • Tony Smith
      This is what s known as grey imports or parallel imports , quite legal but the local distributers aren t happy about it. Obviously in this case. I thought
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 22, 2013
        This is what's known as 'grey imports' or 'parallel imports', quite legal
        but the local distributers aren't happy about it. Obviously in this case.

        I thought it was a bit much for the publisher to sue the bloke over their
        own damn books, it's not like printed them himself!

        I'm glad he won, the rest of them would be getting ideas.

        Eg in Australia it's cheaper to buy a plane ticket, fly to the USA, purchase
        software (high end stuff) and fly back rather than buying it from the local
        reseller. That's not illegal - yet, though they can deny you support (fair
        enough).

        That's why those re-shipper companies are becoming popular (some companies
        won't sell to foreigners to prop up the overpriced local distributer).

        The other thing is the publishers want a cut of the secondhand market - if
        you sell an old book to me, you owe the publisher money.

        Artists like that idea too. If I sell you a painting for $10 during my
        'broke and starving' days, and once I become famous you flog it for $3
        million, I'd be entitled to a cut of $3m. (Some people have already done
        similar.)

        JWE was straight copyright infringement, though seemingly a blind eye was
        turned until some numb-nuts started flogging copies on eBay.

        Tony


        > Yes - a different situation. This decision would have allowed JWE to
        acquire
        > original paper copies (new or secondhand) of Model Engineer in the UK (or
        > anywhere outside the US) and distribute those paper copies by way of sale
        gift
        > or (probably) hire within the US.
        >
        > The decision does not extend to reproducing, including in electronic form,
        parts
        > of those paper copies and distributing the reproductions by, for example,
        > putting them in the Files section of this group.
        >
        > If paper copies are imported and distributed, the copyright owner has had
        > payment for each copy. But if they are reproduced, he hasn't.
        >
        > Andy
        >
        > --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > Read the LA Times article
        > > >
        > > > <http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-court-copyright-
        > > > 20130320,0,6312211.story>
        > > >
        > > > Too bad James is not still around - he could have shoved this into
        > > Magicallia
        > > > Limited's face!!!
        > >
        > >
        > > Ah, no. Totally different situation.
        > >
        > > Tony
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • tramuntana@btinternet.com
        Let me clear a few misconceptions! Jim Early actually put articles from ME on the net- for free. As far as I am aware, it was NOT, repeat NOT his or anyone s
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 23, 2013
          Let me clear a few misconceptions!
          Jim Early actually put articles from ME on the net- for free.
          As far as I am aware, it was NOT, repeat NOT his or anyone's intention to receive any financial gain. The intention was to help fill the loss of information available to newcomers in model engineering which was happening over the years.

          As far as I am aware, there is considerable doubt about 'copyright' as there are three or four instances where contributions to Model Engineer are available in book form. One is Chaddock's The Quorn, the other is Screwcutting in the Lathe and the remaining two the books of George Thomas.

          Sadly, Jim Early is dead- and so is the prime evidence.

          All that remains is critics -in retrospect. Sadly, these are always about.
        • andyf1108
          It s all a bit academic, now, but the question of whether or not the unauthorized reproducer gets paid is immaterial. The real point is that the copyright
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 23, 2013
            It's all a bit academic, now, but the question of whether or not the "unauthorized reproducer" gets paid is immaterial.

            The real point is that the copyright owner is deprived of potential income if folk can access unauthorized reproductions of the material in question.

            I have no doubt that Prof Chaddock and G H Thomas either retained ownership of the copyright in the articles they wrote for Model Engineer (merely licensing the then owners of ME to reproduce their work), or (if they had assigned the copyright) made siutable arrangements with those owners. I was not aware that any of Martin Cleeve's "Screwcutting in the Lathe" had already appeared in the same form in ME, but it may be so.

            Andy

            --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "tramuntana@..." <tramuntana@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Let me clear a few misconceptions!
            > Jim Early actually put articles from ME on the net- for free.
            > As far as I am aware, it was NOT, repeat NOT his or anyone's intention to receive any financial gain. The intention was to help fill the loss of information available to newcomers in model engineering which was happening over the years.
            >
            > As far as I am aware, there is considerable doubt about 'copyright' as there are three or four instances where contributions to Model Engineer are available in book form. One is Chaddock's The Quorn, the other is Screwcutting in the Lathe and the remaining two the books of George Thomas.
            >
            > Sadly, Jim Early is dead- and so is the prime evidence.
            >
            > All that remains is critics -in retrospect. Sadly, these are always about.
            >
          • Tony Smith
            ... receive ... available ... there are ... available in ... Lathe ... In good intentions vs copyright, good intentions loses every time. The for free
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 23, 2013
              > Let me clear a few misconceptions!
              > Jim Early actually put articles from ME on the net- for free.
              > As far as I am aware, it was NOT, repeat NOT his or anyone's intention to
              receive
              > any financial gain. The intention was to help fill the loss of information
              available
              > to newcomers in model engineering which was happening over the years.
              >
              > As far as I am aware, there is considerable doubt about 'copyright' as
              there are
              > three or four instances where contributions to Model Engineer are
              available in
              > book form. One is Chaddock's The Quorn, the other is Screwcutting in the
              Lathe
              > and the remaining two the books of George Thomas.
              >
              > Sadly, Jim Early is dead- and so is the prime evidence.
              >
              > All that remains is critics -in retrospect. Sadly, these are always about.


              In good intentions vs copyright, good intentions loses every time.

              The 'for free' doesn't matter, JWE did not have permission to publish (most
              of*) those articles. Someone owned the copyright to them; be it ME, the
              original writers or the book publishers, it wasn't JWE.

              If I write an article, I own its copyright. I can give permission to have
              it published in a book or magazine. If I sell it, then that person owns the
              copyright and they can publish it however they like, I no longer can.

              I'm not sure what misconceptions you think there are, copyright is pretty
              simple. Not yours? Don't publish it.

              Tony

              * everything after 1923.
            • RICHARD SCHWANKE
              I am comparatively new to this group. In my old life I had a Sears lathe which was a copy of the Atlas with a 12 swing which I purchased in the 1950s and sold
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 29, 2013
                I am comparatively new to this group. In my old life I had a Sears lathe which was a copy of the Atlas with a 12" swing which I purchased in the 1950s and sold in 1995 when I moved into a retirement community. In addition to the normal tools, holders, collets I also had a home made milling attachment and a floor model antique shaper.

                I now live in an apartment where I can only manage a 7" mini-lathe. I would like to to gain access to the books referred to. Are they still in print???

                Dick
              • neils_morr
                http://www.lathes.co.uk/books.htm These are in print. You can get some of them from Busy Bee Tools (Canada) by mail or in person. http://www.busybeetools.com/
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 30, 2013
                  http://www.lathes.co.uk/books.htm

                  These are in print. You can get some of them from Busy Bee Tools (Canada) by mail or in person.

                  http://www.busybeetools.com/

                  Neil

                  --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, RICHARD SCHWANKE <rschwanke2@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I now live in an apartment where I can only manage a 7" mini-lathe. I would like to to gain access to the books referred to. Are they still in print???
                  >
                  > Dick
                • oldstudentmsgt
                  www.thebookdepository.com also has many of them. I have three coming right now, based on another customer,s recommendation. The ones I ordered were on sale,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
                    www.thebookdepository.com also has many of them. I have three coming right now, based on another customer,s recommendation. The ones I ordered were on sale, and free shipping. Should be here in a week or so. WPS 48, and a couple by Harold Hall.

                    Amazon often has them, but about twice as expensive + shipping.

                    Bill in OKC


                    --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "neils_morr" <neilsmorr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > http://www.lathes.co.uk/books.htm
                    >
                    > These are in print. You can get some of them from Busy Bee Tools (Canada) by mail or in person.
                    >
                    > http://www.busybeetools.com/
                    >
                    > Neil
                    >
                    > --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, RICHARD SCHWANKE <rschwanke2@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I now live in an apartment where I can only manage a 7" mini-lathe. I would like to to gain access to the books referred to. Are they still in print???
                    > >
                    > > Dick
                    >
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