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Flat or raked part off tools?

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  • squidsrus85
    Hi All, Many years back I made a few reverse mounted part off tool holders for 1/2 x 3/32 HSS part off blades for the BD920 lathes. Which is the better idea
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
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      Hi All,

      Many years back I made a few reverse mounted part off tool holders for 1/2" x 3/32" HSS part off blades for the BD920 lathes.

      Which is the better idea for a small lathe, a flat (zero) back rake or the common 5deg.?

      The flat one is easier to set up after sharpening, but the raked one will probably cut better.

      I want to add one to a newer lathe and I only have raked ones left, so I guess I will start there. But, would love to hear suggestions.

      Thanks

      Dave
    • James Early
      If you use the modern T style blade you can run them flat front or back. If you use the antique style blades that most suppliers sell to the novices you need
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
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        If you use the modern "T" style blade you can run them flat front or back.
        If you use the antique style blades that most suppliers sell to the novices
        you need the angle just to make them cut.

        JWE
        Long Beach, CA

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "squidsrus85" <squidsrus85@...>
        To: <mlathemods@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 2:27 PM
        Subject: [mlathemods] Flat or raked part off tools?


        > Hi All,
        >
        > Many years back I made a few reverse mounted part off tool holders for
        > 1/2" x 3/32" HSS part off blades for the BD920 lathes.
        >
        > Which is the better idea for a small lathe, a flat (zero) back rake or the
        > common 5deg.?
        >
        > The flat one is easier to set up after sharpening, but the raked one will
        > probably cut better.
        >
        > I want to add one to a newer lathe and I only have raked ones left, so I
        > guess I will start there. But, would love to hear suggestions.
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > Dave
        >
      • squidsrus85
        Thanks JWE,
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 2, 2010
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          Thanks JWE,

          --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "James Early" <j.w.early@...> wrote:
          > If you use the modern "T" style blade you can run them flat front or back.
        • Ian Newman
          Hi,   If you want top rake on a parting tool it should be achieved by mounting the tool at the required angle to the horizontal rather than by grinding the
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 5, 2010
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            Hi,
             
            If you want top rake on a parting tool it should be achieved by mounting the tool at the required angle to the horizontal rather than by grinding the top of the tool.
             
            The parting tool blade is wider at the top than at the bottom of the blade (to provide side clearance).  If you grind a slope on the top of the tool the cutting tip will become narrower as the tool is sharpened and the tip works down the taper.  When this happens the tip becomes narrower than the body of the blade and so the body will jam in the groove cut by the parting tool.
             
            Ian.


            --- On Fri, 2/7/10, squidsrus85 <squidsrus85@...> wrote:

            From: squidsrus85 <squidsrus85@...>
            Subject: [mlathemods] Flat or raked part off tools?
            To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, 2 July, 2010, 22:27

             
            Hi All,

            Many years back I made a few reverse mounted part off tool holders for 1/2" x 3/32" HSS part off blades for the BD920 lathes.

            Which is the better idea for a small lathe, a flat (zero) back rake or the common 5deg.?

            The flat one is easier to set up after sharpening, but the raked one will probably cut better.

            I want to add one to a newer lathe and I only have raked ones left, so I guess I will start there. But, would love to hear suggestions.

            Thanks

            Dave


          • jim.klessig@eticonformity.com
            ... Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 5, 2010
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              --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "James Early" <j.w.early@...> wrote:
              >
              > If you use the modern "T" style blade you can run them flat front or back.
              > If you use the antique style blades that most suppliers sell to the novices
              > you need the angle just to make them cut.
              >
              > JWE
              > Long Beach, CA
              >

              Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?
            • David Beierl
              ... The old-style blades have an elongated V section and an angled bottom to clamp into a half-vee groove at the bottom of the tool holder. The T-style ones
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 5, 2010
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                At 10:07 PM 7/5/2010 Monday, jim.klessig@... wrote:
                >Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?

                The old-style blades have an elongated V section and an angled bottom
                to clamp into a half-vee groove at the bottom of the tool
                holder. The T-style ones have a T section with a flat
                bottom. Because the width of the blade sharply diminishes
                immediately below the cutting edge these blades offer much better
                chip clearance.

                Yours,
                David
              • James W. Early
                Which is why the T style blades require only about 20% of the force that conventional wedge style bladeds do. This is also why they do not require a heavy
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                  Which is why the "T" style blades require only about 20% of the force that conventional wedge style bladeds do. This is also why they do not require a heavy rake like the wedge blades do and why they stay sharp up to 20 times longer. On my CNC at work wedge blades neded to besharpened every 3 hours in production while "T" blades were good for up to 36 hours on the same job. After using the "T" blades for over 20 years in production work I find it amazing people still waste their money and time on the silly wedge blades!


                  JWE
                  Long Beach, CA


                  --- On Mon, 7/5/10, David Beierl <dbeierl@...> wrote:

                  > From: David Beierl <dbeierl@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                  > To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 7:09 PM
                  > At 10:07 PM 7/5/2010 Monday, jim.klessig@...
                  > wrote:
                  > >Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?
                  >
                  > The old-style blades have an elongated V section and an
                  > angled bottom
                  > to clamp into a half-vee groove at the bottom of the tool
                  > holder.  The T-style ones have a T section with a flat
                  >
                  > bottom.  Because the width of the blade sharply
                  > diminishes
                  > immediately below the cutting edge these blades offer much
                  > better
                  > chip clearance.
                  >
                  > Yours,
                  > David
                  >
                  >
                • Mert Baker
                  I bought all my parting toolbits years ago, and they are all the wedge type. However, one of em is now only an inch long, and I ll get one of the T type to
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                    I bought all my parting toolbits years ago, and they are all the wedge type.  However, one of 'em is now only an inch long, and I'll get one of the T type to replace it.   Never had any trouble with the wedge type, once I learned how to sharpen & set 'em properly.  Until then, the less said, the better.
                     
                    Mert
                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of James W. Early
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:30 AM
                    To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                     

                    Which is why the "T" style blades require only about 20% of the force that conventional wedge style bladeds do. This is also why they do not require a heavy rake like the wedge blades do and why they stay sharp up to 20 times longer. On my CNC at work wedge blades neded to besharpened every 3 hours in production while "T" blades were good for up to 36 hours on the same job. After using the "T" blades for over 20 years in production work I find it amazing people still waste their money and time on the silly wedge blades!

                    JWE
                    Long Beach, CA

                    --- On Mon, 7/5/10, David Beierl <dbeierl@...> wrote:

                    > From: David Beierl <dbeierl@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                    > To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 7:09 PM
                    > At 10:07 PM 7/5/2010 Monday, jim.klessig@...
                    > wrote:
                    > >Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?
                    >
                    > The old-style blades have an elongated V section and an
                    > angled bottom
                    > to clamp into a half-vee groove at the bottom of the tool
                    > holder.  The T-style ones have a T section with a flat
                    >
                    > bottom.  Because the width of the blade sharply
                    > diminishes
                    > immediately below the cutting edge these blades offer much
                    > better
                    > chip clearance.
                    >
                    > Yours,
                    > David
                    >
                    >

                  • James W. Early
                    The difference is cutting clearance that if inadequate will cause heat and excessive friction. If the tool is designed with sufficient clearance regions like
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                      The difference is cutting clearance that if inadequate will cause heat and excessive friction. If the tool is designed with sufficient clearance regions like the "T" style blades cutting loads and friction are drastically reduced resulting in longer tool life and more accurate parts. Most tool and cutting problems on lathes and mills are from improperly sharpened cutting tools. This is why I only use brazed carbide or HSS cutting tools on the lathe that i sharpen myself with the correct tool angles of between 8 and 15 degrees. Most cutting tools with inserts only have 3 to 5 degrees of clearance and this is why they overheat and burn up so rapidly and leave rough ugly tapered parts.

                      JWE
                      Long Beach, CA


                      --- On Mon, 7/5/10, jim.klessig@... <jim.klessig@...> wrote:

                      > From: jim.klessig@... <jim.klessig@...>
                      > Subject: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                      > To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 7:07 PM
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com,
                      > "James Early" <j.w.early@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > If you use the modern "T" style blade you can run them
                      > flat front or back.
                      > > If you use the antique style blades that most
                      > suppliers sell to the novices
                      > > you need the angle just to make them cut.
                      > >
                      > > JWE
                      > > Long Beach, CA
                      > >
                      >
                      > Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?
                      >
                    • David Lee
                      Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a T type parting tool. Regards, DSLee From:
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                        Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                         

                        Regards,

                        DSLee

                         

                        From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mert Baker
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:46 AM
                        To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                         

                         I bought all my parting toolbits years ago, and they are all the wedge type.  However, one of 'em is now only an inch long, and I'll get one of the T type to replace it.   Never had any trouble with the wedge type, once I learned how to sharpen & set 'em properly. 


                        [David Lee Responds ->] I’ve not ever had any luck at all with any parting tool but, if I keep at it, I may eventually finger out what I’m doing wrong.


                         Until then, the less said, the better.

                         

                        Mert

                         


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of James W. Early
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:30 AM
                        To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                         

                        Which is why the "T" style blades require only about 20% of the force that conventional wedge style bladeds do. This is also why they do not require a heavy rake like the wedge blades do and why they stay sharp up to 20 times longer. On my CNC at work wedge blades neded to besharpened every 3 hours in production while "T" blades were good for up to 36 hours on the same job. After using the "T" blades for over 20 years in production work I find it amazing people still waste their money and time on the silly wedge blades!

                        JWE
                        Long Beach, CA

                        --- On Mon, 7/5/10, David Beierl <dbeierl@...> wrote:

                        > From: David Beierl <dbeierl@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                        > To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 7:09 PM
                        > At 10:07 PM 7/5/2010 Monday, jim.klessig@...
                        > wrote:
                        > >Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?
                        >
                        > The old-style blades have an elongated V section and an
                        > angled bottom
                        > to clamp into a half-vee groove at the bottom of the tool
                        > holder.  The T-style ones have a T section with a flat
                        >
                        > bottom.  Because the width of the blade sharply
                        > diminishes
                        > immediately below the cutting edge these blades offer much
                        > better
                        > chip clearance.
                        >
                        > Yours,
                        > David

                         

                      • MZT-T
                        ... Marcello
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                          > Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed
                          > novice [me] with a link to a photo of a "T" type parting tool.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > DSLee


                          <
                          http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_related.php?RelatedID=1147
                          449330 >

                          Marcello
                        • James W. Early
                          I learned the difference when I first started parting off back in the early 50s and my boss asked me if I had suffered long enough with the wedge blade. When I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                            I learned the difference when I first started parting off back in the early 50s and my boss asked me if I had suffered long enough with the wedge blade. When I asked what he meant he handed me a "T" blade and said see for yourself. I never went back to the wedge blades as I learned when young not to make my job harder than it had to be.

                            JWE
                            Long Beach, CA


                            --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Mert Baker <mertbaker@...> wrote:

                            From: Mert Baker <mertbaker@...>
                            Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                            To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 6:45 AM



                            I bought all my parting toolbits years ago, and they are all the wedge type.  However, one of 'em is now only an inch long, and I'll get one of the T type to replace it.   Never had any trouble with the wedge type, once I learned how to sharpen & set 'em properly.  Until then, the less said, the better.
                             
                            Mert
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of James W. Early
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:30 AM
                            To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                             
                            Which is why the "T" style blades require only about 20% of the force that conventional wedge style bladeds do. This is also why they do not require a heavy rake like the wedge blades do and why they stay sharp up to 20 times longer. On my CNC at work wedge blades neded to besharpened every 3 hours in production while "T" blades were good for up to 36 hours on the same job. After using the "T" blades for over 20 years in production work I find it amazing people still waste their money and time on the silly wedge blades!

                            JWE
                            Long Beach, CA
                          • James W. Early
                            This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                              This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.
                               


                              JWE
                              Long Beach, CA


                              --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@...> wrote:

                              From: David Lee <nhengineer@...>
                              Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                              To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM



                              Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                               

                              Regards,

                              DSLee

                               

                            • David Halfpenny gmail
                              Part of the effectiveness of the Tee blade shown in that advertisement is the hollow ground top. This curls the chip along its length to make it narrower than
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                Part of the effectiveness of the Tee blade shown in that advertisement is the hollow ground top.
                                 
                                This curls the chip along its length to make it narrower than the cut so it comes out easily without rubbing or jamming.
                                 
                                One can also Dremel a groove onto the top of the tip of a Vee blade to gain this part of the advantage.
                                 
                                David 1/2d
                                 
                                 
                                Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 3:37 PM
                                Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.
                                 


                                JWE
                                Long Beach, CA


                                --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@...> wrote:

                                From: David Lee <nhengineer@...>
                                Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM



                                Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                 

                                Regards,

                                DSLee

                              • James W. Early
                                The little machine shop number is 1728 and Chris was amazed when I first illustrated how superior these blades are to the wedge style at the time we were
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                  The little machine shop number is 1728 and Chris was amazed when I first illustrated how superior these blades are to the wedge style at the time we were working on the extended conversion beds. Like most people he was not aware of the performance difference between the wedge and "T" style blades!

                                  JWE
                                  Long Beach, CA



                                  --- On Tue, 7/6/10, MZT-T <mztgroups@...> wrote:

                                  > From: MZT-T <mztgroups@...>
                                  > Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                  > To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:06 AM
                                  > > Maybe someone would be so kind
                                  > as to provide this uninformed
                                  > > novice [me] with a link to a photo of a "T" type
                                  > parting tool.
                                  > >
                                  > > Regards,
                                  > >
                                  > > DSLee
                                  >
                                • David Lee
                                  Marcello, The attached is the way your link appears on my screen. DSLee From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MZT-T
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010

                                  Marcello,

                                   

                                  The attached is the way your link appears on my screen.

                                   

                                  DSLee

                                   

                                   

                                  From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MZT-T
                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:07 AM
                                  To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                   

                                   

                                  > Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide

                                  this uninformed
                                  > novice [me] with a link to a photo of a "T" type parting tool.
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  >
                                  > DSLee

                                  <
                                  http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_related.php?RelatedID=1147
                                  449330 >

                                  Marcello

                                   

                                • David Lee
                                  OK, now I know what’s being discussed. I wish the greater Franklin, NH area had an evening machinist trade course. I have a really nice old Bridgeport and
                                  Message 17 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                    OK, now I know what’s being discussed.  I wish the greater Franklin, NH area had an evening machinist trade course.  I have a really nice old Bridgeport and not a clue how to use it properly.

                                     

                                    DSLee

                                     

                                    From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James W. Early
                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:37 AM
                                    To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                     

                                    This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.


                                    [David Lee Responds ->] Undereducated?  Yup, that’s me all right.  Thanks Mr. Early.


                                     



                                    JWE
                                    Long Beach, CA


                                    --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@...> wrote:


                                    From: David Lee <nhengineer@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                    To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM

                                     

                                    Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                     

                                    Regards,

                                    DSLee

                                     

                                     

                                  • MZT-T
                                    David, the long link came out split: sometimes enclosing them among works, sometimes not. A second try, having enlarged the line length on my
                                    Message 18 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                      David,

                                      the "long" link came out split: sometimes enclosing them among "< " and " >"
                                      works, sometimes not.
                                      A second try, having enlarged the line length on my email account to 140
                                      chars:

                                      <
                                      http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_related.php?RelatedID=1147
                                      449330 >

                                      If not, either put it back together by copying anything among "< " and " >"
                                      into the browser address field, or go to

                                      < http://www.littlemachineshop.com >

                                      (this one should come out unsplit, hopefully. :-)

                                      and key "p1 blade" in the search field on top right of the page.

                                      Marcello





                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Lee
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:48 PM
                                      > To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                      > [1 Attachment]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Attachment(s) from David Lee included below]
                                      >
                                      > Marcello,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > The attached is the way your link appears on my screen.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > DSLee
                                    • Mert Baker
                                      Don t have a photo, but if you can imagine first, a standard parting blade, and then imagine grinding away the sides except near the top cutting edge,
                                      Message 19 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                        Don't have a photo, but if you can imagine first, a standard parting blade, and then imagine grinding away the sides except near the top cutting edge, resulting in a T shaped cross section, you'll get the idea.  The traditional parting blade, in use, gets dull, not only on the cutting tip, but also on the top edges of the sides, resulting in a sort of tapered shape that rubs on the sides of the cut, & heats things up.
                                         
                                        Mert
                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Lee
                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:02 AM
                                        To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                         

                                        Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                        Regards,

                                        DSLee

                                        From: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:mlathemods@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mert Baker
                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:46 AM
                                        To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                         I bought all my parting toolbits years ago, and they are all the wedge type.  However, one of 'em is now only an inch long, and I'll get one of the T type to replace it.   Never had any trouble with the wedge type, once I learned how to sharpen & set 'em properly. 


                                        [David Lee Responds ->] I’ve not ever had any luck at all with any parting tool but, if I keep at it, I may eventually finger out what I’m doing wrong.


                                         Until then, the less said, the better.

                                        Mert


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:mlathemods@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of James W. Early
                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:30 AM
                                        To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                         

                                        Which is why the "T" style blades require only about 20% of the force that conventional wedge style bladeds do. This is also why they do not require a heavy rake like the wedge blades do and why they stay sharp up to 20 times longer. On my CNC at work wedge blades neded to besharpened every 3 hours in production while "T" blades were good for up to 36 hours on the same job. After using the "T" blades for over 20 years in production work I find it amazing people still waste their money and time on the silly wedge blades!

                                        JWE
                                        Long Beach, CA

                                        --- On Mon, 7/5/10, David Beierl <dbeierl@attglobal. net> wrote:

                                        > From: David Beierl <dbeierl@attglobal. net>
                                        > Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                        > To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                        > Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 7:09 PM
                                        > At 10:07 PM 7/5/2010 Monday, jim.klessig@ eticonformity. com
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >Ok being one of them novices, what is the difference?
                                        >
                                        > The old-style blades have an elongated V section and an
                                        > angled bottom
                                        > to clamp into a half-vee groove at the bottom of the tool
                                        > holder.  The T-style ones have a T section with a flat
                                        >
                                        > bottom.  Because the width of the blade sharply
                                        > diminishes
                                        > immediately below the cutting edge these blades offer much
                                        > better
                                        > chip clearance.
                                        >
                                        > Yours,
                                        > David

                                      • James W. Early
                                        This is true to a certain limited extent. The major factor that makes the T style blade so Superior in performance is the heavy side reliefs that reduce drag
                                        Message 20 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                          This is true to a certain limited extent. The major factor that makes the "T" style blade so Superior in performance is the heavy side reliefs that reduce drag to almost nothing on the flanks of the tool. This is what both allows it to be used straight in without any rake at all and provide 10 to 20 times the tool life between sharpening that it delivers. From my own experience a HSS "T" style parting blade will outlast 5 to 6 carbide insert parting tools in service and it can be resharppened hundreds of times when the insert is one use and out. Using this style tool in all of our CNC and screw machines at work allowed us to lower our part costs for competitive bidding most of the time enough to get our shop work at prices lower than our competitors could afford. This style blade because it cuts leaner and cooler also cuts straighter allowing in many cases not having to dress this cut in a secondary operation.
                                           
                                          Between this style parting tool and using cheap brazed cutters sharpened my way we were constantly able to undercut the majority of our competitors in order to keep our shop busy!

                                          JWE
                                          Long Beach, CA

                                          --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Halfpenny gmail <davidhalfpenny@...> wrote:

                                          From: David Halfpenny gmail <davidhalfpenny@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                          To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:44 AM



                                          Part of the effectiveness of the Tee blade shown in that advertisement is the hollow ground top.
                                           
                                          This curls the chip along its length to make it narrower than the cut so it comes out easily without rubbing or jamming.
                                           
                                          One can also Dremel a groove onto the top of the tip of a Vee blade to gain this part of the advantage.
                                           
                                          David 1/2d
                                           
                                           
                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 3:37 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                          Regards,

                                          DSLee

                                          This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.
                                           


                                          JWE
                                          Long Beach, CA


                                          --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@...> wrote:

                                          From: David Lee <nhengineer@...>
                                          Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                          To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM



                                          Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                           



                                        • Mert Baker
                                          I m not sure, now, but I think that 60 years ago, I used to drive to the Franklin NH, area just to go to square dances. I m in Hardwick, Mass., and used to
                                          Message 21 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                            I'm not sure, now, but I think that 60 years ago, I used to drive to the Franklin NH, area just to go to square dances.  I'm in Hardwick, Mass., and used to teach Hi School machine shop classes, if you want to visit.
                                             
                                            Mert
                                             

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Lee
                                            Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:56 AM
                                            To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                             

                                            OK, now I know what’s being discussed.  I wish the greater Franklin, NH area had an evening machinist trade course.  I have a really nice old Bridgeport and not a clue how to use it properly.

                                            DSLee

                                            From: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:mlathemods@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of James W. Early
                                            Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:37 AM
                                            To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                             

                                            This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.


                                            [David Lee Responds ->] Undereducated?  Yup, that’s me all right.  Thanks Mr. Early.




                                            JWE
                                            Long Beach, CA


                                            --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@gmail. com> wrote:


                                            From: David Lee <nhengineer@gmail. com>
                                            Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                            To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                            Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM

                                            Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                            Regards,

                                            DSLee

                                          • Frank Hasieber
                                            For the past 20 years I have used nothing but the TC inserts for parting, and grooves, most of the insert manufactures make them, here is a typical one:
                                            Message 22 of 24 , Jul 6, 2010
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                                              For the past 20 years I have used nothing but the TC inserts for parting, and grooves, most of the insert manufactures make them, here is a typical one:
                                               I usually parted at 500 to 1000rpm with full power cross feed. They last a very long time, usually got broken through carelessness! You do need a special holder for them, you can see the self grip parting blades here:
                                              Except for a low powered lathe I wouldn't use anything else even though they are expensive!
                                              Frank
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 5:21 PM
                                              Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                              
                                              I'm not sure, now, but I think that 60 years ago, I used to drive to the Franklin NH, area just to go to square dances.  I'm in Hardwick, Mass., and used to teach Hi School machine shop classes, if you want to visit.
                                               
                                              Mert
                                               

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Lee
                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:56 AM
                                              To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                               

                                              OK, now I know what’s being discussed.  I wish the greater Franklin, NH area had an evening machinist trade course.  I have a really nice old Bridgeport and not a clue how to use it properly.

                                              DSLee

                                              From: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:mlathemods@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of James W. Early
                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:37 AM
                                              To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                              Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                               

                                              This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.


                                              [David Lee Responds ->] Undereducated?  Yup, that’s me all right.  Thanks Mr. Early.




                                              JWE
                                              Long Beach, CA


                                              --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@gmail. com> wrote:


                                              From: David Lee <nhengineer@gmail. com>
                                              Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                              To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                              Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM

                                              Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                              Regards,

                                              DSLee

                                            • David Lee
                                              Mert, Thanks for your kind invitation. Hardwick, Mass is a two hour trip from here. You must have REALLY like square dancing. David Lee From:
                                              Message 23 of 24 , Jul 18, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment

                                                Mert,

                                                 

                                                Thanks for your kind invitation.  Hardwick, Mass is a two hour trip from here.  You must have REALLY like square dancing.

                                                 

                                                David Lee

                                                 

                                                 

                                                From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mert Baker
                                                Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 12:22 PM
                                                To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                                 

                                                I'm not sure, now, but I think that 60 years ago, I used to drive to the Franklin NH, area just to go to square dances.  I'm in Hardwick, Mass., and used to teach Hi School machine shop classes, if you want to visit.

                                                 

                                                Mert

                                                 

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Lee
                                                Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:56 AM
                                                To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                                 

                                                OK, now I know what’s being discussed.  I wish the greater Franklin, NH area had an evening machinist trade course.  I have a really nice old Bridgeport and not a clue how to use it properly.

                                                DSLee

                                                From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James W. Early
                                                Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:37 AM
                                                To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                                 

                                                This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.


                                                [David Lee Responds ->] Undereducated?  Yup, that’s me all right.  Thanks Mr. Early.




                                                JWE
                                                Long Beach, CA


                                                --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@...> wrote:


                                                From: David Lee <nhengineer@...>
                                                Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                                To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM

                                                Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                                Regards,

                                                DSLee

                                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2986 - Release Date: 07/06/10 14:36:00

                                              • Mert Baker
                                                In those high & far-off times, I lived in Barre, MA, & there were 3 of us that followed Ralph Page s Orchestra around. In the summer, I lived in Groton MA, a
                                                Message 24 of 24 , Jul 18, 2010
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                                                  In those high & far-off times, I lived in Barre, MA, & there were 3 of us that followed Ralph Page's Orchestra around.  In the summer, I lived in Groton MA, a little closer.  It wasn't Franklin so often, mostly Peterboro.
                                                   
                                                  Mert
                                                   

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Lee
                                                  Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:44 AM
                                                  To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                                   

                                                  Mert,

                                                  Thanks for your kind invitation.  Hardwick, Mass is a two hour trip from here.  You must have REALLY like square dancing.

                                                  David Lee

                                                  From: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:mlathemods@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mert Baker
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 12:22 PM
                                                  To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                                   

                                                  I'm not sure, now, but I think that 60 years ago, I used to drive to the Franklin NH, area just to go to square dances.  I'm in Hardwick, Mass., and used to teach Hi School machine shop classes, if you want to visit.

                                                  Mert

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:mlathemods@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of David Lee
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:56 AM
                                                  To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                                   

                                                  OK, now I know what’s being discussed.  I wish the greater Franklin, NH area had an evening machinist trade course.  I have a really nice old Bridgeport and not a clue how to use it properly.

                                                  DSLee

                                                  From: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:mlathemods@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of James W. Early
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:37 AM
                                                  To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?

                                                   

                                                  This is a link to the Enco page. These blades are an industry standard item available from all commercial suppliers for knowledgeable machinist. They also carry the brazed carbide and wedge style blades that they make more profit on for the use of the undereducated.


                                                  [David Lee Responds ->] Undereducated?  Yup, that’s me all right.  Thanks Mr. Early.




                                                  JWE
                                                  Long Beach, CA


                                                  --- On Tue, 7/6/10, David Lee <nhengineer@gmail. com> wrote:


                                                  From: David Lee <nhengineer@gmail. com>
                                                  Subject: RE: [mlathemods] Re: Flat or raked part off tools?
                                                  To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 7:02 AM

                                                  Maybe someone would be so kind as to provide this uninformed novice [me] with a link to a photo of a “T” type parting tool.

                                                  Regards,

                                                  DSLee

                                                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                  Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2986 - Release Date: 07/06/10 14:36:00

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