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Re: [mlathemods] Re: Model Engineer's Workshop

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  • Robert E. Hawley
    I agree with the last part of your statement. For the price of the magazine delivery should be one of the last problems we have. It is a very good and
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
      I agree with the last part of your statement.  For the price of the magazine delivery should be one of the last problems we have.  It is a very good and informative magazine but it is worthless if it doesnÂ’t come and just causes problems with your head.  Bob Hawley

      From: dnaman43
      Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:27 AM
      Subject: [mlathemods] Re: Model Engineer's Workshop

      --- In mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com, "Robert E. Hawley"
      <roberthawley_ 3@...> wrote:

      >
      > I
      am one havent got the last issue. Just got a response for EWA
      and they assure me all is well. However still havent got the last 2
      issues. Bob Hawley

      That would be the Issue-130 (published Oct 4 which EWA says was sent
      out direct by Magicalia in UK ... heaven knows where it's got to) and
      Issue-131 (which EWA say they sent out themselves on Nov-12).

      In a way though, this makes me feel better in that it indicates a
      universal "glitch" and that it's not just a continuation of the total
      screw-up my subscription has become since my renewal starting with
      the June issue (paid for in April via Wise Owl).

      - when the issues stopped coming I contacted Magicalia who said "we
      can't talk to you ... talk to Wise Owl". Unfortunately Wise Owl was
      unable to get Magicalia's attention either so after another 3 months
      I decided to cancel with Wise Owl (losing $10 on exchange variations -
      I'm actually in Canada) and go direct to Magicalia with a brand new
      subscription.

      - meantime I had bought several issues from the store. Magicalia
      agreed to backdate my new subscription to the subsequent issues and I
      thought my problem was solved. Then back issues started arriving
      *including* the ones I had bought from the store - they had backdated
      to the expiry of my previous subscription, something I had explicitly
      requested them (and they agreed) not to do.

      - OK, so I contact Magicalia yet again and guess what: "we can't talk
      to you, we've transferred all North American subscriptions to a new
      agent, EWA". This is only 3 weeks after I took the subscription (like
      they didn't know what was about to happen when I subscribed and
      couldn't have told me to hold off). By this time I was hopping mad
      which wasn't tempered at all by the discovery, when I checked the EWA
      web site, that they were offering subscriptions at 30% less than the
      price I paid Magicalia 3 weeks before!

      - I emailed EWA (you seem to get a different person each time you
      contact them ... wonderful). Explained the problem and they agreed to
      adjust the subscription end date. A few weeks later, I got a notice
      (apparently they sent this to all the customers that were transferred
      from Magicalia) confirming the subscription status. Of course, mine
      showed the original end date with no correction. Why was I not
      suprised?

      - Meantime, there have been no new issues arriving for a couple of
      months. Hence my question here.

      MEW is a terrific magazine but I'm starting to think it really isn't
      worth this much hassle.

    • Marty Kollmorgen
      I ve also had major problems with Wise Owl. It s a family run business that borders on actual, outright fraud. I ordered 3 Workshop Practices books from
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
        I've also had major problems with Wise Owl. It's a "family" run
        business that borders on actual, outright fraud. I ordered
        3 'Workshop Practices" books from them last November. It took
        repeated emails and phone calls to pry two of the three books ..... 4
        months later. Never received the 3rd book, and by that time, recourse
        thru credit card no longer an option. Have reported them to Calif.
        BBB and to the Calif. Atty Gen, but no resolution. I got cheated by
        Wise Owl out of the price of one book, not to mention the cost of
        multiple tel. calls, most of which went to voice mail that weren't
        responded to.
        Marty Kollmorgen

        --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "dnaman43" <mevagissy@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, James Eckman <ronin_engineer@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I had problems in the past so I dropped my subscription. I cannot
        > > recommend Wise Owl as a reliable third party for subscriptions.
        >
        > My experience with Wise Owl echoes yours. Most email, phone calls
        go
        > unanswered and when you do get reach someone, all they do is send
        an
        > email to the publisher then disappear until the next time you
        complain
        > No follow-up. Also, their on-line ordering system is totally busted
        > for non-US customers and has been for years. I mentioned it to them
        a
        > couple of times but they made it very plain they weren't interested.
        >
        > However, the new NA distributer EWA told me "The previous
        distributor
        > has gone out of business". I presume they meant Wise Owl yet Wise
        > Owl's website is still up and they are apparently open for business
        > including MEW subscriptions (although given their former lack of
        > interest in the website, perhaps that doesn't mean much).
        >
      • dnaman43
        I haven t found them outright deceitful - just incompetent. When I finally cancelled my MEW subscription through them because they were unable to sort out the
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
          I haven't found them outright deceitful - just incompetent. When I
          finally cancelled my MEW subscription through them because they were
          unable to sort out the problems, they refunded my money very promptly.
          And frankly I haven't done any better since then with the subscription
          through Magicalia.

          Some time ago, I wanted one of the scarce G.H. Thomas books. It was
          shown on Wise-Owls website as "backordered" (no suprise there) but I
          called them anyway and placed an order telling them I understood it
          was on b/o but wanted to reserve one when it came in. 9 months later,
          I noticed it was available again in the UK so I ordered one from there
          and called Wise Owl to cancel (they were still showing it b/o). They
          had no record of my order whatsoever. Like I say, incompetent.


          --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "Marty Kollmorgen" <jo.marty@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I've also had major problems with Wise Owl. It's a "family" run
          > business that borders on actual, outright fraud. I ordered
          > 3 'Workshop Practices" books from them last November. It took
          > repeated emails and phone calls to pry two of the three books .....
          4
          > months later. Never received the 3rd book, and by that time,
          recourse
          > thru credit card no longer an option.
        • dnaman43
          Hope you have more success than I ve had in the past 6 months. Copying Magicalia is probably a good idea ... although they ve expressly refused to deal with me
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
            Hope you have more success than I've had in the past 6 months. Copying
            Magicalia is probably a good idea ... although they've expressly
            refused to deal with me even though my subscription order was placed
            directly with Magicalia (and hence, technically my contract is with
            them) since they transferred everything to EWS.

            I've pretty much given up hope of getting my subscription starting
            date corrected. I'm just hoping now that I can get *some* magazines
            (that I haven't already bought elsewhere) out of this subscription.


            --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "Edwin Feuer" <jepennygirl@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi - I'm afraid I spoke too soon. I hadn't checked but was going by
            recollection. I just checked and the last issue I got was #128. wow -
            what is going on? EWS sent me an email saying #130 was the last one
            sent from UK and the rest would come from them. Guess I'll have to get
            after them. I also subscribe to Model Engineer and that seems to be
            OK. They said #4308 was the last from UK, and I have #4309, so I guess
            that's OK. apparently Magicalia and EWS both are down on the learning
            curve, and have some catching up to do. I am going to put Magicalia on
            info copy of all my correspondence with EWS and I suggest all others
            with a problem do the same so that they can see the type of service we
            are getting. - Regards Ed.
          • James Eckman
            If EWA proves better in the long haul than Wise Owl I might resubscribe. I suspect the US is not an important market for MEW since they really don t seem to do
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
              If EWA proves better in the long haul than Wise Owl I might resubscribe.
              I suspect the US is not an important market for MEW since they really
              don't seem to do a good job of covering subs here.

              Jim Eckman
            • Robert E. Hawley
              I too lost the price of a book through Wise Owl, I ordered it then forgot about it when I remembered it I emailed them. They never responded and I never got
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
                I too lost the price of a book through Wise Owl, I ordered it then forgot about it when I remembered it I emailed them.  They never responded and I never got the book, never ordered another thing from them.  When it was time to renew my Model Engineer Workshop I went to Magicalia's web site and ordered from there to cut out Wise Owl.  They still gave my order to EWA,  I think that is wrong but what can you do they are across the pond and the legal recourse would cost more than the magazine.  Bob Hawley

                Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:03 AM
                Subject: [mlathemods] Re:Model Engineer's Workshop

                I've also had major problems with Wise Owl. It's a "family" run
                business that borders on actual, outright fraud. I ordered
                3 'Workshop Practices" books from them last November. It took
                repeated emails and phone calls to pry two of the three books ..... 4
                months later. Never received the 3rd book, and by that time, recourse
                thru credit card no longer an option. Have reported them to Calif.
                BBB and to the Calif. Atty Gen, but no resolution. I got cheated by
                Wise Owl out of the price of one book, not to mention the cost of
                multiple tel. calls, most of which went to voice mail that weren't
                responded to.
                Marty Kollmorgen

                --- In mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com, "dnaman43" <mevagissy@. ..> wrote:

                >
                > --- In
                title=mailto:mlathemods%40yahoogroups.com href="mailto:mlathemods%40yahoogroups.com">mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com, James Eckman <ronin_engineer@ >
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I had problems in the past so I dropped my subscription. I cannot
                > > recommend Wise Owl as a reliable third party for subscriptions.
                >
                > My experience with Wise Owl echoes yours. Most email, phone calls
                go
                > unanswered and when you do get reach someone, all they do is
                send
                an
                > email to the publisher then disappear until the next time
                you
                complain
                > No follow-up. Also, their on-line ordering system is
                totally busted
                > for non-US customers and has been for years. I mentioned
                it to them
                a
                > couple of times but they made it very plain they
                weren't interested.
                >
                > However, the new NA distributer EWA told me
                "The previous
                distributor
                > has gone out of business". I presume they
                meant Wise Owl yet Wise
                > Owl's website is still up and they are
                apparently open for business
                > including MEW subscriptions (although
                given their former lack of
                > interest in the website, perhaps that
                doesn't mean much).
                >

              • Frank Hasieber
                Bob, I m sorry to hear of yours and others problems, being in South Africa I get direct from Magicalia and have no problems, it s quite likely they have some
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
                  Bob, I'm sorry to hear of yours and others problems, being in South Africa I get direct from Magicalia and have no problems, it's quite likely they have some agreement with EWA to forward/pass all subscriptions from the USA/Canada to them, even though accepted by Magicalia, David Clark is the new editor of MEW, david.clark@... try contacting him, he has been trying to improve MEW's image and is a member of a number of these groups.
                  Regards,
                  Frank.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Robert E. Hawley
                  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:53 PM
                  To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re:Model Engineer's Workshop

                  I too lost the price of a book through Wise Owl, I ordered it then forgot about it when I remembered it I emailed them.  They never responded and I never got the book, never ordered another thing from them.  When it was time to renew my Model Engineer Workshop I went to Magicalia's web site and ordered from there to cut out Wise Owl.  They still gave my order to EWA,  I think that is wrong but what can you do they are across the pond and the legal recourse would cost more than the magazine.  Bob Hawley
                • Edwin Feuer
                  Hi - I m afraid I spoke too soon. I hadn t checked but was going by recollection. I just checked and the last issue I got was #128. wow - what is going on? EWS
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
                    Hi - I'm afraid I spoke too soon. I hadn't checked but was going by recollection. I just checked and the last issue I got was #128. wow - what is going on? EWS sent me an email saying  #130 was the last one sent from UK and the rest would come from them. Guess I'll have to get after them. I also subscribe to Model Engineer and that seems to be OK. They said #4308 was the last from UK, and I have #4309, so I guess that's OK. apparently Magicalia and EWS both are down on the learning curve, and have some catching up to do. I am going to put Magicalia on info copy of all my correspondence with EWS and I suggest all others with a problem do the same so that they can see the type of service we are getting. - Regards Ed.
                  • Mike West
                    Add me to the list of people that have been screwed by Wise Owl. I tried to buy The Model Engineers Worshop Manual from them in Febuary. After about a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 30, 2007
                      Add me to the list of people that have been screwed by Wise Owl. I
                      tried to buy "The Model Engineers Worshop Manual" from them in
                      Febuary. After about a month they stopped responding to emails or
                      phone messages, and in about June I gave up and bought another copy
                      from Hemingways in the UK (same price by the way and it arrived in
                      about a week).

                      I still email Wise Owl everytime I buy a book to let them know that I
                      bought it from someone else, and to remind them that they owe me
                      $46. I've never had a reply.

                      Mike

                      --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "Robert E. Hawley"
                      <roberthawley_3@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I too lost the price of a book through Wise Owl, I ordered it then
                      forgot about it when I remembered it I emailed them. They never
                      responded and I never got the book, never ordered another thing from
                      them. When it was time to renew my Model Engineer Workshop I went to
                      Magicalia's web site and ordered from there to cut out Wise Owl.
                      They
                      still gave my order to EWA, I think that is wrong but what can you
                      do
                      they are across the pond and the legal recourse would cost more than
                      the magazine. Bob Hawley
                      >
                    • David Clark
                      Hi THere Magicalia are not geared up to do subscriptions direct. They use a subscription company in the UK as well as in the US. EWA have given excellent
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 1, 2007
                        Hi THere
                        Magicalia are not geared up to do subscriptions direct.

                        They use a subscription company in the UK as well as
                        in the US.

                        EWA have given excellent results to Two, a motorbike
                        magazine taken over by Magicalia a few months back.

                        Give them a chance and I am sure the will work out well
                        for Model Engineers Workshop.
                        regards David

                        At 23:50 30/11/2007, you wrote:

                        >Add me to the list of people that have been screwed by Wise Owl. I
                        >tried to buy "The Model Engineers Worshop Manual" from them in
                        >Febuary. After about a month they stopped responding to emails or
                        >phone messages, and in about June I gave up and bought another copy
                        >from Hemingways in the UK (same price by the way and it arrived in
                        >about a week).
                        >
                        >I still email Wise Owl everytime I buy a book to let them know that I
                        >bought it from someone else, and to remind them that they owe me
                        >$46. I've never had a reply.
                        >
                        >Mike
                        >
                        >--- In
                        ><mailto:mlathemods%40yahoogroups.com>mlathemods@yahoogroups.com,
                        >"Robert E. Hawley"
                        ><roberthawley_3@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I too lost the price of a book through Wise Owl, I ordered it then
                        >forgot about it when I remembered it I emailed them. They never
                        >responded and I never got the book, never ordered another thing from
                        >them. When it was time to renew my Model Engineer Workshop I went to
                        >Magicalia's web site and ordered from there to cut out Wise Owl.
                        >They
                        >still gave my order to EWA, I think that is wrong but what can you
                        >do
                        >they are across the pond and the legal recourse would cost more than
                        >the magazine. Bob Hawley
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                      • David Graves
                        Wise Owl defrauded me as well both for ME and MEW and I thought I would tell you what I did. I complained to the Attorney General of CA (state where Wise Owl
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 3, 2007
                          Wise Owl defrauded me as well both for ME and MEW and I thought I would
                          tell you what I did. I complained to the Attorney General of CA (state
                          where Wise Owl is located) as well as the CA Better Business Bureau.
                          A.G. basically said "Gee, that's too bad. Why don't you hire an
                          attorney?" BBB said "We will contact them and get back to you." Months
                          later, BBB said, "We haven't heard from them but will try again."

                          With regard to Magicalia and EWA, I also would wait and give them a
                          chance to fix things up. The real problem was Wise Owl, and both other
                          outfits did seem to be trying to get things back in order the few times
                          I contacted them.

                          Perhaps a few more people could try contacting the CA Attorney General's
                          office. If they get enough complaints, it would seem that they might
                          have to do something. Or perhaps someone from CA with a lot of energy
                          might want to contact a big newspaper like the San Francisco Examiner
                          and have them do an expose on how their attorney general is not doing
                          his job. Not being a Californian, I don't have much clout.
                        • James W. Early
                          David Unfortunately our attorney general is more interested in pursuing companies that produce jobs in Kalifornia than companies that defraud their customers.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 3, 2007
                            David
                            Unfortunately our attorney general is more interested in pursuing companies that produce jobs in Kalifornia than companies that defraud their customers. He is a whole hearted convert to the new religion being promoted by the prophet Big Al and is determined to stop any American company that manufactures anything at all from staying in business just like he did when he was governor and his father did when he was governor.

                            In this state the only people with clout are con men and defrauders of the welfare system.
                            --
                            JWE
                            Long Beach, CA

                            Be wary of strong drink. It can
                            make you shoot at tax
                            collectors... and miss.
                            Robert A. Heinlein


                            -------------- Original message ----------------------
                            From: David Graves <graves@...>
                            >
                            > Wise Owl defrauded me as well both for ME and MEW and I thought I would
                            > tell you what I did. I complained to the Attorney General of CA (state
                            > where Wise Owl is located) as well as the CA Better Business Bureau.
                            > A.G. basically said "Gee, that's too bad. Why don't you hire an
                            > attorney?" BBB said "We will contact them and get back to you." Months
                            > later, BBB said, "We haven't heard from them but will try again."
                            >
                            > With regard to Magicalia and EWA, I also would wait and give them a
                            > chance to fix things up. The real problem was Wise Owl, and both other
                            > outfits did seem to be trying to get things back in order the few times
                            > I contacted them.
                            >
                            > Perhaps a few more people could try contacting the CA Attorney General's
                            > office. If they get enough complaints, it would seem that they might
                            > have to do something. Or perhaps someone from CA with a lot of energy
                            > might want to contact a big newspaper like the San Francisco Examiner
                            > and have them do an expose on how their attorney general is not doing
                            > his job. Not being a Californian, I don't have much clout.
                            >
                            >
                          • David Lee
                            ... From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James W. Early Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:51 AM To:
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 3, 2007
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of James W. Early
                              Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:51 AM
                              To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re: Wise Owl (was Model Engineer's Workshop)

                              David
                              Unfortunately our attorney general is more interested in pursuing companies
                              that produce jobs in Kalifornia than companies that defraud their customers.
                              He is a whole hearted convert to the new religion being promoted by the
                              prophet Big Al and is determined to stop any American company that
                              manufactures anything at all from staying in business just like he did when
                              he was governor and his father did when he was governor.

                              In this state the only people with clout are con men and defrauders of the
                              welfare system.

                              [David Lee replies->] That ain't just your state Mr. Early. I'm beginning
                              to think it's every state. The was a time when New Hampshire encouraged
                              cottage industry but now, with all the narrow-backs (my name for liberals)
                              moved up from Massachusetts, NH is beginning to be the "People's Republic of
                              New Hampshire".

                              --
                              JWE
                              Long Beach, CA

                              Be wary of strong drink. It can
                              make you shoot at tax
                              collectors... and miss.
                              Robert A. Heinlein


                              -------------- Original message ----------------------
                              From: David Graves <graves@...>
                              >
                              > Wise Owl defrauded me as well both for ME and MEW and I thought I would
                              > tell you what I did. I complained to the Attorney General of CA (state
                              > where Wise Owl is located) as well as the CA Better Business Bureau.
                              > A.G. basically said "Gee, that's too bad. Why don't you hire an
                              > attorney?" BBB said "We will contact them and get back to you." Months
                              > later, BBB said, "We haven't heard from them but will try again."
                              >
                              > With regard to Magicalia and EWA, I also would wait and give them a
                              > chance to fix things up. The real problem was Wise Owl, and both other
                              > outfits did seem to be trying to get things back in order the few times
                              > I contacted them.
                              >
                              > Perhaps a few more people could try contacting the CA Attorney General's
                              > office. If they get enough complaints, it would seem that they might
                              > have to do something. Or perhaps someone from CA with a lot of energy
                              > might want to contact a big newspaper like the San Francisco Examiner
                              > and have them do an expose on how their attorney general is not doing
                              > his job. Not being a Californian, I don't have much clout.
                              >
                              >



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