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A2Z CNC introduction

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  • timgoldstein
    Just joined this group and thought I would introduce myself. Some of you are probably already familiar with me. For those that don t know me, I got involved in
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 3, 2007
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      Just joined this group and thought I would introduce myself.

      Some of you are probably already familiar with me. For those that
      don't know me, I got involved in machining as a hobbyist. That hobby
      progressed into CNC. It continued to grow until I ordered a Haas VF2
      mill and a SL20 lathe. At that point I opened A2Z CNC to build high
      quality USA made accessories for the hobby machining market. Our
      initial product was a QCTP that fits many of the hobby oriented
      lathes including the Chinese 7x, 8x, and 9x machines. We have
      expanded our line greatly since then but mostly been focused on
      upgrades for Sherline and Taig. We have recently added a 4 bolt
      compound hold down for the 9X lathes after I had enough customers
      tell me they needed one and did not have the equipment to make it
      themselves.

      What I am hoping to get by lurking in this group is more ideas of
      upgrades and accessories for the most common machines. We are looking
      to add to our product range and would like to expand with more items
      for the Chinese lathes and mills.

      Tim
      A2Z CNC
      1530 W Tufts Ave Unit B
      Englewood CO 80110
      720 833-9300

      www.A2ZCNC.com

      USA made accessories for desktop mills & lathes.
      Specialized tools for the jewelry industry.
    • David Halfpenny
      ... From: timgoldstein ... expanded our line greatly since then but mostly been focused on upgrades for Sherline and Taig. ...
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 3, 2007
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "timgoldstein" <timg@...>

        > We have
        expanded our line greatly since then but mostly been focused on
        upgrades for Sherline and Taig.

        >What I am hoping to get by lurking in this group is more ideas of
        upgrades and accessories for the most common machines. We are looking
        to add to our product range and would like to expand with more items
        for the Chinese lathes and mills.

        Tim,

        I've heard that folk who've never felt the need for a QTP have bought yours
        because it's such a gem.

        Feel free to lurk on
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/C-O_Lathe/
        as well.

        We specialise in the Sieg C0 "Baby Lathe", which is the new kid on Unimat's
        block.

        It's a dinky machine with a lot of potential, but needs a lot of help to
        achieve it.

        David 1/2d
      • Marty N
        Just joined this group and thought I would introduce myself. Some of you are probably already familiar with me. For those that don t know me, I got involved in
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 4, 2007
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          Just joined this group and thought I would introduce myself.

          Some of you are probably already familiar with me. For those that
          don't know me, I got involved in machining as a hobbyist. That hobby
          <snip>
           
          What I am hoping to get by lurking in this group is more ideas of
          upgrades and accessories for the most common machines. We are looking
          to add to our product range and would like to expand with more items
          for the Chinese lathes and mills.

          Tim
          A2Z CNC
          1530 W Tufts Ave Unit B
          Englewood CO 80110
          720 833-9300

          www.A2ZCNC.comrogressed into CNC.
           
          Hi Tim and welcome
           
          Julie and I were in your shop last June visiting our new granddaughter. I bought your QCTP to replace the TS Micro I had mounted previously. Good trade!  You spent about an hour showing us around your shop and gave me my first look and the Sherline and Taig machines up close. Very gracious of you to take time out of your busy day and we appreciated it greatly.
           
          After working with it for about a year now I still have stars in my eyes. Nice piece and great workmanship. Thanks.
           
          It's mounted on an HF 7 X 10 currently and improved and eased operations to such a degree that it made me wonder how good this machine could be with that type of attention paid to the remainder of it. After pondering that for a while I jumped into building a 7 X 14 from just the castings. It's a slow process but having allot of fun doing it.
           
          Thanks for the inspiration!
           
          Regards
          Marty
           
           
           
           
        • Pete Pappas
          Hi Tim! good to have you aboard! I m another user of your QCTP, I picked one up at last year s cabin fever, I had the harbor frieght quickish change, but
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 5, 2007
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            Hi Tim! good to have you aboard!    I'm another user of your QCTP, I picked one up at last year's cabin fever,  I had the harbor frieght "quickish" change, but the thing is just NOT quick, and it's HUGE for our lathes.(I was planning on drilling a new mounting hole in it, ONE INCH closer to it's corner diagonally from the orig. hole. it's that big)
             
            The A2Z is so much nicer! 
             
            Pete


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          • David Halfpenny
            ... From: Pete Pappas ... Folks, I m curious about the appeal of QCTPs for little lathes. I was brought up with an American-pattern
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 6, 2007
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Pete Pappas" <turbo2pete@...>


              > Hi Tim! good to have you aboard! I'm another user of your QCTP, I
              > picked one up at last year's cabin fever, I had the harbor frieght
              > "quickish" change, but the thing is just NOT quick, and it's HUGE for our
              > lathes.(I was planning on drilling a new mounting hole in it, ONE INCH
              > closer to it's corner diagonally from the orig. hole. it's that big)
              >
              > The A2Z is so much nicer!
              >
              Folks,

              I'm curious about the appeal of QCTPs for little lathes.

              I was brought up with an American-pattern boat toolpost, and I can agree
              that it has limitations.
              I can also agree that the British-pattern square toolpost isn't so hot
              either.
              I've never used a QCTP and I'm puzzled.

              I can understand the attractiveness of copying the Big Lathe. And the
              delightfulness of a well made product - one guy has one just to look at.
              But in what way are they useful for very little lathes?

              It seems to me (as a non-user of course) that all a QCTP does is let you
              adjust the height of a small tool after sharpening. Yes, you can swop the
              tools over easily, but still have to rotate the block to the right angle.
              And there's a stiffness penalty.

              I'm happy to tape a short but heavy tool to its shims, and clamp it
              straight to the topslide.
              Then I've got a far stiffer assembly, with the forces going where I want
              them.
              When I sharpen, I reshim, which is no worse than resetting the toolholder.

              Better still, if I don't need the topslide, I bolt a chunk of bright drawn
              steel onto the cross-slide, and clamp the tools to that. A one-off shim
              brings them all back to centre height, a series of holes for the clamp-bolt
              makes positioning very flexible, and the clamping forces on the little
              slide aren't concentrated at just one bolt.

              There are times when I want to use a small toolbit rather than a clonking
              great tool. Well the small toolholders sold for American boat posts come
              into their own for that, providing automatic top-relief while they are
              about it.

              So what am I missing here please?

              David 1/2d
            • Pete
              David, I m not sure what you re referring to by boat toolpost... do you mean the typical lantern toolpost found on larger lathes? ...with the single lock
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 6, 2007
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                David, I'm not sure what you're referring to by "boat" toolpost... do
                you mean the typical lantern toolpost found on larger lathes? ...with
                the single lock bolt and a crescent rocker under the tool (it looks
                kinda like I boat I guess)?

                ...If so, I would not have spent the money on a quick-change, as that
                is what I learned on as well, and it is failry quick to swap tools
                and angles with that setup.

                But, the 7x lathes come with the clunky four-sided tool holder which
                needs shimming for every toolbit, loosening and tightening of FOUR
                screws on every tool change (3 for the bit, and the one centerbolt
                for the angle)

                This to me got very tedious, especially when I find myself switching
                between two or three toolbits repeatedly.

                ...a LOT of my work on the lathe is little items that would otherwise
                get done by other means were it not for the convenience of 3 second
                tool changes.


                Pete

                --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny"
                <davidhalfpenny@...> wrote:
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Pete Pappas" <turbo2pete@...>
                >
                >
                > > Hi Tim! good to have you aboard! I'm another user of your
                QCTP, I
                > > picked one up at last year's cabin fever, I had the harbor
                frieght
                > > "quickish" change, but the thing is just NOT quick, and it's HUGE
                for our
                > > lathes.(I was planning on drilling a new mounting hole in it, ONE
                INCH
                > > closer to it's corner diagonally from the orig. hole. it's that
                big)
                > >
                > > The A2Z is so much nicer!
                > >
                > Folks,
                >
                > I'm curious about the appeal of QCTPs for little lathes.
                >
                > I was brought up with an American-pattern boat toolpost, and I can
                agree
                > that it has limitations.
                > I can also agree that the British-pattern square toolpost isn't so
                hot
                > either.
                > I've never used a QCTP and I'm puzzled.
                >
                > I can understand the attractiveness of copying the Big Lathe. And
                the
                > delightfulness of a well made product - one guy has one just to
                look at.
                > But in what way are they useful for very little lathes?
                >
                > It seems to me (as a non-user of course) that all a QCTP does is
                let you
                > adjust the height of a small tool after sharpening. Yes, you can
                swop the
                > tools over easily, but still have to rotate the block to the right
                angle.
                > And there's a stiffness penalty.
                >
                > I'm happy to tape a short but heavy tool to its shims, and clamp it
                > straight to the topslide.
                > Then I've got a far stiffer assembly, with the forces going where I
                want
                > them.
                > When I sharpen, I reshim, which is no worse than resetting the
                toolholder.
                >
                > Better still, if I don't need the topslide, I bolt a chunk of
                bright drawn
                > steel onto the cross-slide, and clamp the tools to that. A one-off
                shim
                > brings them all back to centre height, a series of holes for the
                clamp-bolt
                > makes positioning very flexible, and the clamping forces on the
                little
                > slide aren't concentrated at just one bolt.
                >
                > There are times when I want to use a small toolbit rather than a
                clonking
                > great tool. Well the small toolholders sold for American boat posts
                come
                > into their own for that, providing automatic top-relief while they
                are
                > about it.
                >
                > So what am I missing here please?
                >
                > David 1/2d
                >
              • David Halfpenny
                ... From: Pete Thanks Pete. ... Yes I do. As you say, ... Trick is not to change the tool bits: buy more toolposts instead. Then it s
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 6, 2007
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Pete" <turbo2pete@...>

                  Thanks Pete.

                  > David, I'm not sure what you're referring to by "boat" toolpost... do
                  > you mean the typical lantern toolpost found on larger lathes? ...with
                  > the single lock bolt and a crescent rocker under the tool (it looks
                  > kinda like I boat I guess)?

                  Yes I do. As you say,
                  > it is fairly quick to swap tools
                  > and angles with that setup.


                  > But, the 7x lathes come with the clunky four-sided tool holder which
                  > needs shimming for every toolbit, loosening and tightening of FOUR
                  > screws on every tool change (3 for the bit, and the one centerbolt
                  > for the angle)

                  > This to me got very tedious, especially when I find myself switching
                  > between two or three toolbits repeatedly.

                  Trick is not to change the tool bits: buy more toolposts instead. Then it's
                  only one bolt, and you're back to a three-second tool change.

                  > ...a LOT of my work on the lathe is little items that would otherwise
                  > get done by other means were it not for the convenience of 3 second
                  > tool changes.
                  >
                  In the olden days (before the American/lantern/boat post) there was just a
                  stud (or Tee bolt) sticking out of the topslide, and you clamped each tool
                  down separately with a U-shaped casting held off the deck by a spring round
                  the post. No fuss, no cost, and a lot quicker still.
                  Of course you have to fix the shims to the tool.

                  So is it simply that a QCTP provides a neat set of little cradles that
                  substitute for the shims?

                  Or is there something else too?

                  For example I can see that if you don't touch the block, the tools will go
                  back pretty well where they were before. That saves finding datum every
                  time etc.
                  - Is that an advantage?
                  - Realistically, how often can you get away with leaving the block in one
                  place (unrotated)?
                  - If you do rotate the block, can you index it back to its most-used
                  position (like many square ones) ?

                  Any other possibilities?

                  David 1/2d
                • 'Grif'
                  Well,,, from my standpoint, once I get a tool height set and cutting well, I don t want to mess with it. I m a lucky one, an older machinist gave me a KDK for
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 6, 2007
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                    Well,,, from my standpoint, once I get a tool height set and cutting well, I don't want to mess with it. I'm a lucky one, an older machinist gave me a KDK for my Logan 200 with a bunch of holders. I may go back to the lantern post just to see how it works now that I've actually learned to make a tool cut sorta-on-purpose. I'm also new enough to not know when tool stiffness is causing me trouble.



                    >I'm curious about the appeal of QCTPs for little lathes.
                    >
                    >I was brought up with an American-pattern boat toolpost, and I can agree
                    >that it has limitations.
                    >I can also agree that the British-pattern square toolpost isn't so hot
                    >either.
                    >
                  • Ellis Cory
                    Pete wrote.........But, the 7x lathes come with the clunky four-sided tool holder which needs shimming for every toolbit, loosening and tightening of FOUR
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 6, 2007
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                      Pete wrote.........But, the 7x lathes come with the clunky four-sided tool holder which needs shimming for every toolbit, loosening and tightening of FOUR screws on every tool change (3 for the bit, and the one centerbolt
                      for the angle) This to me got very tedious, especially when I find myself switching between two or three toolbits repeatedly...............
                       
                      If you cut the tool length to only need 2 screws, then 4 tools can be set around the post easily. Personally, I only have a combined turning and facing tool, plus a parting tool. These cover 90% of my needs and I still have 2 spaces to add a screwcutting tool, knurling tool or whatever else I need. This means that I can be using the lathe within seconds of entering the workshop.
                      HTH
                                Ellis
                    • Clive Griffiths
                      Have a look at the following. Not connected with them, just a well satisfied customer. Clive G. Tasmania Send instant
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 6, 2007
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                        Have a look at the following. Not connected with them, just a well
                        satisfied customer.

                        <www.eccentricengineering.com.au>

                        Clive G.
                        Tasmania
                        Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                      • Pete
                        I ve setup that way too, but I still found myself undoing bits because I needed one facing uhh.... counterclockwise to the block. .. at this point, I still
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 7, 2007
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                          I've setup that way too, but I still found myself undoing bits
                          because I needed one facing uhh.... counterclockwise to the block.

                          .. at this point, I still have the HF clunker for boring, since it
                          came with a 1/2" boring bar holder, and drill chuck, which I don't
                          have for the A2Z (I did just get the boring bar holder at cabin fever
                          though)

                          Heh, I guess the simple/best answer is, They're all the best way......

                          Pete

                          --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "Ellis Cory" <ellis103@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Pete wrote.........But, the 7x lathes come with the clunky four-
                          sided tool holder which needs shimming for every toolbit, loosening
                          and tightening of FOUR screws on every tool change (3 for the bit,
                          and the one centerbolt
                          > for the angle) This to me got very tedious, especially when I find
                          myself switching between two or three toolbits
                          repeatedly...............
                          >
                          > If you cut the tool length to only need 2 screws, then 4 tools can
                          be set around the post easily. Personally, I only have a combined
                          turning and facing tool, plus a parting tool. These cover 90% of my
                          needs and I still have 2 spaces to add a screwcutting tool, knurling
                          tool or whatever else I need. This means that I can be using the
                          lathe within seconds of entering the workshop.
                          > HTH
                          > Ellis
                          >
                        • Jerry S.
                          I learned on the rocker style, but after using the QCTP for a great number of years it is my preference. It is very convenient when doing multiple operations
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 7, 2007
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                            I learned on the rocker style, but after using the QCTP for a great number of years it is my preference. It is very convenient when doing multiple operations on multiple pieces. Set the cutting tool once and forget it, until you resharpen it. Then you only have to adjust 1 setscrew to set the height, unless you do some major reshaping. Using an Aloris on a Hardinge I never had a problem with tool rigidity.
                             
                            Your Mileage May Vary,
                            Jerry S.
                             
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Pete
                            Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:13 PM
                            Subject: [mlathemods] Re:A2Z CNC introduction

                            I've setup that way too, but I still found myself undoing bits
                            because I needed one facing uhh.... counterclockwise to the block.

                            .. at this point, I still have the HF clunker for boring, since it
                            came with a 1/2" boring bar holder, and drill chuck, which I don't
                            have for the A2Z (I did just get the boring bar holder at cabin fever
                            though)

                            Heh, I guess the simple/best answer is, They're all the best way......

                            Pete

                            --- In mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com, "Ellis Cory" <ellis103@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > Pete wrote....... ..But, the 7x lathes come with the clunky four-
                            sided tool holder which needs shimming for every toolbit, loosening
                            and tightening of FOUR screws on every tool change (3 for the bit,
                            and the one centerbolt
                            > for the angle) This to me got very tedious, especially when I find
                            myself switching between two or three toolbits
                            repeatedly.. ......... ....
                            >
                            > If you cut the tool length to only need 2 screws, then 4 tools can
                            be set around the post easily. Personally, I only have a combined
                            turning and facing tool, plus a parting tool. These cover 90% of my
                            needs and I still have 2 spaces to add a screwcutting tool, knurling
                            tool or whatever else I need. This means that I can be using the
                            lathe within seconds of entering the workshop.
                            > HTH
                            > Ellis
                            >


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                          • David V Howard
                            That looks very neat. If I didn t have a whole bunch of lathe tools already, I d be tempted to buy one. Maybe later :-). Cheers, Dave.
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                              That looks very neat. If I didn't have a whole bunch of lathe tools already,
                              I'd be tempted to buy one.

                              Maybe later :-).

                              Cheers,
                              Dave.
                            • David Halfpenny
                              ... From: Jerry S. ... Sorry to go about this, but I haven t yet spotted how - on a small lathe - that is any different from clamping a
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Jerry S." <jslaugh@...>

                                > after using the QCTP for a great number of years it is my preference. It
                                > is very convenient when doing multiple operations on multiple pieces. Set
                                > the cutting tool once and forget it, until you resharpen it. Then you
                                > only have to adjust 1 setscrew to set the height, unless you do some
                                > major reshaping.

                                Sorry to go about this, but I haven't yet spotted how - on a small lathe -
                                that is any different from clamping a tool+shim package direct to the
                                topslide. For "adjust one setscrew" substitute "adjust the shim-pack", and
                                everything else could read the same.

                                So am I missing anything? Or am I just saving money by not having a QCTP ?

                                I'm not knocking QCTPs in any way, but I still haven't discovered the
                                elusive special thing about them that justifies the cost, reduced rigidity
                                and reduced flexibility of tool positioning. Any more clues please?

                                David 1/2d
                              • Arnie Minear
                                David, The real advantage of the QC post is see when you have a CNC machine. I swap between tools, 2 or 3 seconds. Tell the computer I changed tools, it knows
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                  David,

                                  The real advantage of the QC post is see when you have a CNC machine.

                                  I swap between tools, 2 or 3 seconds. Tell the computer I changed
                                  tools, it knows the correct offsets for the new tool and away I go.
                                  No rezeroing my Z axis, no refinding my X and measuring up my material.

                                  Speed it the reason.

                                  Arnie
                                • Ellis Cory
                                  David 1/2d wrote.........I m not knocking QCTPs in any way, but I still haven t discovered the elusive special thing about them that justifies the cost,
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                    David 1/2d wrote.........I'm not knocking QCTPs in any way, but I still haven't discovered the elusive special thing about them that justifies the cost, reduced rigidity and reduced flexibility of tool positioning. Any more clues please?.........
                                     
                                    I totally agree, especially with the point about the reduced rigidity. See my earlier message about how to set up a 4 way toolpost.
                                    HTH
                                             Ellis
                                  • Kevin Jones
                                    ... How does a QCTP reduce the flexibility of tool positioning ? Regards, Kevin Jones Lousiville, KY
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                      reduced flexibility of tool positioning.

                                      How does a QCTP reduce the flexibility of tool positioning ?

                                      Regards,
                                      Kevin Jones
                                      Lousiville, KY
                                       
                                    • David Halfpenny
                                      ... From: Arnie Minear ... That s making sense now Arnie! As a sweeping generalisation, traditional manual turning sizes the work by
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Arnie Minear" <aminear@...>


                                        > David,
                                        >
                                        > The real advantage of the QC post is see when you have a CNC machine.
                                        >
                                        > I swap between tools, 2 or 3 seconds. Tell the computer I changed
                                        > tools, it knows the correct offsets for the new tool and away I go.
                                        > No rezeroing my Z axis, no refinding my X and measuring up my material.
                                        >
                                        > Speed it the reason.
                                        >

                                        That's making sense now Arnie!


                                        As a sweeping generalisation, traditional manual turning sizes the work by
                                        measuring the workpiece.

                                        CNC, by contrast, sizes the work by knowing where the tool is.

                                        Lathes with Digital Readouts on the slides lean towards the CNC end.

                                        I imagine that a QCTP combined with DROs would make a very nice
                                        halfway-house.
                                        A table beside the lathe of the datum points for each tool could be an
                                        advantage.

                                        David 1/2d
                                      • Frank Hasieber
                                        Isn t that what you are doing in manual turning? Think about it. Frank. ... From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                          Isn't that what you are doing in manual turning? Think about it.
                                          Frank.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mlathemods@yahoogroups.com]On
                                          Behalf Of David Halfpenny


                                          CNC, by contrast, sizes the work by knowing where the tool is.


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                                          9:24 AM
                                        • David Halfpenny
                                          ... From: Frank Hasieber ... I ve thought, and actually, no I m not, Frank. - When I use the saddle rack to advance a tool I don t
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Frank Hasieber" <fhasieber@...>


                                            >> CNC, by contrast, sizes the work by knowing where the tool is.
                                            >
                                            > Isn't that what you are doing in manual turning? Think about it.
                                            > Frank.
                                            >
                                            I've thought, and actually, no I'm not, Frank.

                                            - When I use the saddle rack to advance a tool I don't know where it is.
                                            - Those folk with "Imperial" 7x Chinese lathes that actually have metric
                                            cross-slide screws may think they know where the tool is, but they're
                                            wrong.
                                            - Heck, not even folk with DROs know where the tool is the moment they
                                            touch an angled topslide!

                                            So I think that I need to put a micrometer to the workpiece - at least for
                                            the last few cuts.
                                            Which is utterly different from CNC.

                                            In my view, the ideal CNC machine would read the diameter (etc) of the work
                                            as they go.
                                            Are there hobby lathes that do that?

                                            David 1/2d
                                          • Aaron Pasteris
                                            I made my own out of CRS - plenty rigid and cost me $35 in materials of which I have about 60% left (bought 1 lengths) and the dovetail cutter (in good
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 8, 2007
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                                              I made my own out of CRS - plenty rigid and cost me $35 in materials of which I have about 60% left (bought 1' lengths) and the dovetail cutter (in good shape).
                                              I would not give up my QCTP - much faster and easier than shims. I found I needed a fair number of the same shim sizes and would run out. A pack of metal shim stock is not  much less than what I spent making the tool post, so I feel I am ahead of the game.
                                               
                                              As far as adjusting the shim pack - if you make a tool setting gauge you can adjust a tool holder within a few seconds. How long doe sit take to sort through a shim pack to get the right combo?
                                               
                                              Aaron
                                               
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:53 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re:A2Z CNC introduction

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "Jerry S." <jslaugh@trip. net>

                                              > after using the QCTP for a great number of years it is my preference. It
                                              > is very convenient when doing multiple operations on multiple pieces. Set
                                              > the cutting tool once and forget it, until you resharpen it. Then you
                                              > only have to adjust 1 setscrew to set the height, unless you do some
                                              > major reshaping.

                                              Sorry to go about this, but I haven't yet spotted how - on a small lathe -
                                              that is any different from clamping a tool+shim package direct to the
                                              topslide. For "adjust one setscrew" substitute "adjust the shim-pack", and
                                              everything else could read the same.

                                              So am I missing anything? Or am I just saving money by not having a QCTP ?

                                              I'm not knocking QCTPs in any way, but I still haven't discovered the
                                              elusive special thing about them that justifies the cost, reduced rigidity
                                              and reduced flexibility of tool positioning. Any more clues please?

                                              David 1/2d

                                            • David Halfpenny
                                              ... From: Kevin Jones ... Well I ve not used one, and I m actually hoping to be told that it doesn t. Although my kids use Boxfords, my
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Mar 9, 2007
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                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "Kevin Jones" <krjone01@...>

                                                >
                                                >>reduced flexibility of tool positioning.
                                                >
                                                > How does a QCTP reduce the flexibility of tool positioning ?
                                                >
                                                Well I've not used one, and I'm actually hoping to be told that it doesn't.


                                                Although my kids use Boxfords, my context is the portable lathe: I have a
                                                Perris, a Gamage and an Emco5. Each has a stud sticking out of the topslide
                                                for either a single-tool clamp or a block tool holder.

                                                My latest acquisition is a Sieg C0. This has a tool holder built into the
                                                topslide, which is VERY limiting, but you can take it off and substitute a
                                                Tee bolt. So what am I best to put on the Teel bolt? Sieg supply a
                                                single-tool holder with the lathe, and sell accessory 2-tool holders. Can I
                                                do better than that? I know folk who have jacked-up a tiny QCTP and bolted
                                                it to their cross-slides. One guy said he didn't think it would be
                                                especially useful, but it was just so beautiful that he had to have one!


                                                What I mean by flexibility is that the stud system allows a single tool to
                                                be clamped at any angle and at any position that the clamp can reach. When
                                                you have such a capability you use it all the time without thinking. Side
                                                and end relief can be fine-tuned in a second. The topslide can be swung to
                                                give a very fine feed, or left at an angle for screwcutting, or set
                                                parallel to the bed, and in each case the tool can be returned to its
                                                normal position instantly.Users of the American/lantern/boat toolholder
                                                will know what I mean too. Somebody remarked that they do 90% of their work
                                                with just two tools.

                                                It seems to me that some of the benefits of using a QCTP depend on it
                                                staying fixed to the topslide, without rotation. I imagine that this would
                                                cramp my style somewhat, but I could be wrong.

                                                It may be that when one is used to it, it simply isn't the problem I
                                                imagine it to be.

                                                It may be that QCTP users merely need a few more tools set up in holders,
                                                and swop them at points where I might rotate mine.

                                                It may be that a QCTP can be indexed back to a datum position after being
                                                rotated for a particular cut (like my square ones can).

                                                Or it may actually be that this is an advantage that single tools have over
                                                QCTPs.

                                                It's no big deal apart from the money: I can swop tools over anytime.

                                                David 1/2d
                                              • David Halfpenny
                                                ... From: Aaron Pasteris ... I would not give up my QCTP - much faster and easier than shims. Useful to know. ... Metal shimstock
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Mar 9, 2007
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                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "Aaron Pasteris" <aarons_groups@...>


                                                  >I made my own out of CRS - plenty rigid and cost me $35 in materials of
                                                  >which I have about 60% left (bought 1' lengths) and the dovetail cutter
                                                  >(in good shape).
                                                  I would not give up my QCTP - much faster and easier than shims.

                                                  Useful to know.

                                                  >I found I needed a fair number of the same shim sizes and would run out. A
                                                  >pack of metal shim stock is not much less than what I spent making the
                                                  >tool post, so I feel I am ahead of the game.

                                                  Metal shimstock is expensive, but aluminium pie dishes and kitchen foil -
                                                  which are plenty stiff enough - are virtually free.

                                                  > As far as adjusting the shim pack - if you make a tool setting gauge you
                                                  > can adjust a tool holder within a few seconds. How long doe sit take to
                                                  > sort through a shim pack to get the right combo?

                                                  It would certainly take a long time if I had to do it afresh for every tool
                                                  change, but I don't. I leave each tool set up with its shim pack, and only
                                                  change it on resharpening. Even then of course I'm already nearly there.
                                                  Not quite as quick as a QCTP, but not a frequent job.

                                                  I notice that colour-coded plastic shims are increasingly popular
                                                  industrially, including tool setting. I've no idea how expensive they are,
                                                  but we can pinch the idea by using felt tip flashes on each thickness of
                                                  shim we use.

                                                  Aaron

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: David Halfpenny
                                                  To: mlathemods@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:53 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re:A2Z CNC introduction


                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "Jerry S." <jslaugh@...>

                                                  > after using the QCTP for a great number of years it is my preference.
                                                  It
                                                  > is very convenient when doing multiple operations on multiple pieces.
                                                  Set
                                                  > the cutting tool once and forget it, until you resharpen it. Then you
                                                  > only have to adjust 1 setscrew to set the height, unless you do some
                                                  > major reshaping.

                                                  Sorry to go about this, but I haven't yet spotted how - on a small
                                                  lathe -
                                                  that is any different from clamping a tool+shim package direct to the
                                                  topslide. For "adjust one setscrew" substitute "adjust the shim-pack",
                                                  and
                                                  everything else could read the same.

                                                  So am I missing anything? Or am I just saving money by not having a QCTP
                                                  ?

                                                  I'm not knocking QCTPs in any way, but I still haven't discovered the
                                                  elusive special thing about them that justifies the cost, reduced
                                                  rigidity
                                                  and reduced flexibility of tool positioning. Any more clues please?

                                                  David 1/2d
                                                • Aaron Pasteris
                                                  I have used the plastic shim packs extensively for other jobs and they are relatively cheap. I would think they would compress or cold flow under heavy cutting
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Mar 10, 2007
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                                                    I have used the plastic shim packs extensively for other jobs and they are relatively cheap. I would think they would compress or cold flow under heavy cutting and therefore useless as tool shims
                                                     
                                                    As for positioning with a QCTP, I can rotate mine to any angle and do so all the time. I like being able to remove the tool to hone it and then just drop it back into place and start cutting again. With this, I find myself keeping my tool sharper than without the QCTP.
                                                     
                                                    If you have the discipline to keep your tools and shim packs orderly, then a QCTP may not be all that important. Myself, I would have three tools on the bench and end up mixing the shims. With the tool holders, I can get the tools I need for an operation and sit them beside the machine without getitng all mixed up. If I had a dollar for every time I had to open the vacuum up to get a shim while cleaning up!
                                                     
                                                    Aaron
                                                     
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:40 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re:A2Z CNC introduction

                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "Aaron Pasteris" <aarons_groups@ verizon.net>

                                                    >I made my own out of CRS - plenty rigid and cost me $35 in materials of
                                                    >which I have about 60% left (bought 1' lengths) and the dovetail cutter
                                                    >(in good shape).
                                                    I would not give up my QCTP - much faster and easier than shims.

                                                    Useful to know.

                                                    >I found I needed a fair number of the same shim sizes and would run out. A
                                                    >pack of metal shim stock is not much less than what I spent making the
                                                    >tool post, so I feel I am ahead of the game.

                                                    Metal shimstock is expensive, but aluminium pie dishes and kitchen foil -
                                                    which are plenty stiff enough - are virtually free.

                                                    > As far as adjusting the shim pack - if you make a tool setting gauge you
                                                    > can adjust a tool holder within a few seconds. How long doe sit take to
                                                    > sort through a shim pack to get the right combo?

                                                    It would certainly take a long time if I had to do it afresh for every tool
                                                    change, but I don't. I leave each tool set up with its shim pack, and only
                                                    change it on resharpening. Even then of course I'm already nearly there.
                                                    Not quite as quick as a QCTP, but not a frequent job.

                                                    I notice that colour-coded plastic shims are increasingly popular
                                                    industrially, including tool setting. I've no idea how expensive they are,
                                                    but we can pinch the idea by using felt tip flashes on each thickness of
                                                    shim we use.

                                                    Aaron

                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: David Halfpenny
                                                    To: mlathemods@yahoogro ups.com
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:53 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [mlathemods] Re:A2Z CNC introduction

                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "Jerry S." <jslaugh@trip. net>

                                                    > after using the QCTP for a great number of years it is my preference.
                                                    It
                                                    > is very convenient when doing multiple operations on multiple pieces.
                                                    Set
                                                    > the cutting tool once and forget it, until you resharpen it. Then you
                                                    > only have to adjust 1 setscrew to set the height, unless you do some
                                                    > major reshaping.

                                                    Sorry to go about this, but I haven't yet spotted how - on a small
                                                    lathe -
                                                    that is any different from clamping a tool+shim package direct to the
                                                    topslide. For "adjust one setscrew" substitute "adjust the shim-pack",
                                                    and
                                                    everything else could read the same.

                                                    So am I missing anything? Or am I just saving money by not having a QCTP
                                                    ?

                                                    I'm not knocking QCTPs in any way, but I still haven't discovered the
                                                    elusive special thing about them that justifies the cost, reduced
                                                    rigidity
                                                    and reduced flexibility of tool positioning. Any more clues please?

                                                    David 1/2d

                                                  • dnaman43
                                                    ... they are relatively cheap. I would think they would compress or cold flow under heavy cutting and therefore useless as tool shims I like the idea that
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Mar 10, 2007
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                                                      --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Pasteris"
                                                      <aarons_groups@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I have used the plastic shim packs extensively for other jobs and
                                                      they are relatively cheap. I would think they would compress or cold
                                                      flow under heavy cutting and therefore useless as tool shims

                                                      I like the idea that someone posted in one of these groups a while
                                                      back for thin shims. That is, to buy several sets of cheap feeler
                                                      blade and dissemble them. Couple of bucks a time when they're on
                                                      special (Princess Auto, Harborfreight etc). Have a proverbial "tobacco
                                                      tin" full (well OK, it's the tin from a cheap student geometry set for
                                                      the dollar-store).

                                                      Just about the right size for my purposes and I can build up in 1-thou
                                                      increments.
                                                    • David Halfpenny
                                                      ... From: Aaron Pasteris ... Context is small lathes, and clearly one fills most of the gap with metal, using the shim(s) only
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Mar 10, 2007
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "Aaron Pasteris" <aarons_groups@...>


                                                        > I have used the plastic shim packs extensively for other jobs and they
                                                        > are relatively cheap. I would think they would compress or cold flow
                                                        > under heavy cutting and therefore useless as tool shims

                                                        Context is small lathes, and clearly one fills most of the gap with metal,
                                                        using the shim(s) only for the fine adjustment. Not tried them, but seen
                                                        them used for tooling in production engineering journals.

                                                        > As for positioning with a QCTP, I can rotate mine to any angle and do so
                                                        > all the time.

                                                        Right, so for you the ease of exchange outweighs the precise repeatibility
                                                        of tool point position. Worth knowing.

                                                        > I like being able to remove the tool to hone it and then just drop it
                                                        > back into place and start cutting again. With this, I find myself keeping
                                                        > my tool sharper than without the QCTP.

                                                        Good point.

                                                        >If you have the discipline to keep your tools and shim packs orderly, then
                                                        >a QCTP may not be all that important.

                                                        My discipline is terrible, but a spot of glue works wonders!

                                                        Thanks, Aaron

                                                        David 1/2d
                                                      • Don Crawford
                                                        ... Hello David, I started out with the rocker/boat type toolpost on an old Clausing lathe. I made good parts with it. I now use a QC toolpost on a modern
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Jun 6, 2007
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                                                          --- In mlathemods@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny"
                                                          <davidhalfpenny@...> wrote:
                                                          > So what am I missing here please?
                                                          >
                                                          > David 1/2d


                                                          Hello David,

                                                          I started out with the rocker/boat type toolpost on an old Clausing
                                                          lathe. I made good parts with it.

                                                          I now use a QC toolpost on a modern Clausing lathe(the company
                                                          upgraded). I make good parts with it.

                                                          I was impressed enough that I purchased a QC toolpost for my 7x lathe.
                                                          I make good parts with it.

                                                          So what are you missing? With all due respect, perhaps it's just the
                                                          experience of using one. Try to find a local hobbyist that has one, and
                                                          try it out. You may ,or may not like it, but at least the question will
                                                          be resolved.

                                                          Best Regards,

                                                          Don
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