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783Re: [mlathemods] Re: Lathe Choices (more OT)

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  • j.w.early@worldnet.att.net
    May 25 4:25 PM
      WD
      I have a holding folder in my on-line mail reader and the comments both you and John made needed considered response and I was for the moment to busy to respond as needed. I caught my breath finally and tried to make a considered response to the comments both of you had made. This was after watching what a company down the street went through for 5 years before moving their machine tools and the jobs that went with them to Mexico because of union problems that led to massive workmans comp expenses.

      Another hundred and fifty good paying American jobs gone off shore because of union greed and some shyster lawyers and doctors. The company by the way is American Racing Wheels of good local reputation. They just got tired of seeing production drop, wages rising and dozens of phony workmans comp claims driving their insurance costs up. The union organizers that shut down their machine shop are now trying to bring the union into some other local shops and the workers have already been told that if they vote in the union the company is gone.
      --
      JWE
      Long Beach, CA
      "Liberty means responsibility.
      That�s why most men dread it."
      � George Bernard Shaw, 19th/20th-
      century Anglo-Irish dramatist and
      wit


      > JWE,
      > First, how many in your "couple?" I barely remember the original exchange.
      > All of my period have rust on them and the uppercase letters are starting to
      > sag. Has this been caught in a cyberspace time warp?? <G>
      >
      > Second, yep.
      >
      > Third, I believe almost every word of what has been said so far.... not to
      > mention a few that haven't.
      >
      > It's a fine mess you'v got us in, Ollie!
      >
      > WDSmith
      >
      > From: <j.w.early@
      > > WD
      > > After considering this for a couple of days I feel both of you have very
      > valid points based on perceived cause and effect. However from other
      > viewpoints perceptions can shift and show a different picture. In most areas
      > today if you buy into the one size fits all program you will get a semi free
      > ride either through collage into a paper shuffling job or into a union
      > position that will stifle any creativity you might have acquired in your
      > early years because it does not fit your job description.
      > >
      > > The tendency in the educational system today is to produce round pegs
      > properly sized to fit into round plug and play job positions in business and
      > industry. More flexible creative minds fit into this system about as well as
      > a square peg will into a board with only round holes. So what happens to the
      > creative mind, it either gets its corners rounded off to fit in the per
      > programmed round hole or it has to survive as best can in the independent
      > world where individuality and ability count for more than conformity does.
      > >
      > > Have you ever watched what happens to a company when the union comes in
      > and takes control. First they will observe all work in the shop and develop
      > job titles and descriptions. Then they will define those job descriptions
      > more carefully. So in a screw machine shop for instance we will illustrate
      > the job position of machine operator. Now in the company before the union
      > the operator did parts of the setup of the machine, changed and sharpened
      > drills, changed and sharpened cutting tools and adjusted them and checked
      > the parts he makes to make sure the tooling gets changed, sharpened or
      > adjusted before the parts go out of print, after the union he can only put
      > parts into the machine and take them out. It now requires a setup man for
      > every five machines to do the sharpening and adjusting of tooling and an
      > inspector for every five machines to check the work and call the setup man
      > when there is a problem with the parts. Also the supervisor and lead men are
      > no longer allowed to setup or adjust the machines because they are
      > management.
      > >
      > > So now we have a department of say 20 machines that used to run with six
      > people that now requires twelve at more money for less production. Also we
      > now have a situation where the worker and the company instead of working
      > together in cooperation as a team to raise profits and pay through higher
      > production and better quality, they are now adversaries where production
      > suffers and quality suffers if the ransom of higher wages is nor forthcoming
      > even though quality and production are falling.
      > >
      > > Next step is the company farming out the work of the department with the
      > worst productivity problems followed with a plant or company wide strike
      > because of the outsourcing. Soon the outsourcing goes to other countries
      > where worker productivity is higher so the company can afford to pay the
      > upward spiraling union wages for those positions still left that can not be
      > outsourced despite their falling productivity and outright sabotage of
      > quality. Next step is owner or board of directors decides to sell off or
      > dump the company to an international combine, which comes in and moves the
      > rest of the work somewhere else and sells off what is left to improve their
      > bottom line.
      > >
      > > A short discourse on modern education and the democratic union system and
      > its effect on a once great and productive nation and people.
      > > --
      > > JWE
      > > Long Beach, CA
      > > "Liberty means responsibility.
      > > That's why most men dread it."
      > > - George Bernard Shaw, 19th/20th-
      > > century Anglo-Irish dramatist and
      > > wit
      > >
      > >
      > > > John, It seems that I recall you are a couple of years older than me so
      > you
      > > > may not be aware of how things have changed. The situation is now far
      > worse
      > > > than the examples you relate and I have worried over it quite a lot. It
      > > > truly is frightening.
      > > >
      > > > I may also be more sensitive and exposed because you lived in the real
      > > > world while mine was the fantasy world of civil service. Regardless, I
      > have
      > > > formed a couple of opinions which, as always, I'd like to toss out.
      > > >
      > > > I'm willing to wager that, during your college days, engineering
      > students
      > > > made fun of business majors and whatever non-engineering student
      > population
      > > > existed at the time. Along with that, I'll bet your professors told you
      > how
      > > > "special" you would be as an engineer and how much respect and
      > > > responsibility would be heaped upon you.
      > > >
      > > > My third bet is that you went to engineering school because you had a
      > love
      > > > for the art and science of it as well as a talent for doing the things
      > > > required of that profession.... what, back in the dark ages, was called
      > > > "aptitude."
      > > >
      > > > Two things have changed. Interest and aptitude have gone out the door.
      > > > Students now actually believe all that crap about respect, rewards and
      > > > responsibility but nobody ever told them when or how.
      > > >
      > > > Today's engineering graduates (all generalities are false, including
      > this
      > > > one) got there out of greed for the money and power they expected to
      > > > automatically apply to all engineering school graduates. The did not go
      > to
      > > > school because they loved or 'had a knack" for that kind of work. They
      > > > graduated because of extensive study and memorization with little or no
      > > > actual understanding of the subject.
      > > >
      > > > During the '80s, I interviewed literally hundreds of job applicants. One
      > > > engineering school valedictorian actually asked how many people she
      > would be
      > > > supervising during the interview. I passed on her but higher levels
      > > > rescinded my decision and she would up working for me. She could quote
      > > > atomic weights of anything you could name but hand her a block of lead
      > and a
      > > > block of aluminum and she could not tell you which was which. I spent
      > one
      > > > whole day explaining various common fasteners to her.... bolts, nuts,
      > > > washers, lockwashers, rivets, screws... and I never was sure she
      > actually
      > > > understood any of it.
      > > >
      > > > One physicist candidate revealed a passion for riding dirt bikes.
      > > > I asked if the bike had an expansion chamber.
      > > > Of course!
      > > > How does it work?
      > > > I don't know.
      > > > Is this the scientific curiosity you want to see in your new-hire?
      > > >
      > > > Couple that with the division of primary education into "workers" and
      > > > "college material" with the resulting death of hands-on training for
      > both,
      > > > the urban upbringing and demise of any kind of actual experience in
      > today's
      > > > colleges and it is highly likely that you can hire a mechanical
      > engineering
      > > > school graduate who cannot walk out to your car, point directly at a
      > bolt
      > > > and say, "That is a bolt."
      > > >
      > > > WDSmith
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > From: catboat15@... <snipped & edited>
      > > >
      > > > BTW I rant about poorly educated engineers here on the net.
      > > >
      > > > Example #1: I asked him if he had ever looked under the car. "No, of
      > course
      > > > not, I am an engineer." he replied. Still can not understand why so many
      > > > people with degrees in engineering do not know that all that math and
      > > > science we had to take applies to the real world, not just school book
      > > > problems.
      > > >
      > > > Example #2 one the engineers (higher grade than I was at the time) tried
      > to
      > > > overhaul a 56 Chevy and could not get the engine to turn over when done.
      > > >
      > > > I went out to his house and found the rods were too tight on the
      > crankshaft
      > > > to even move with a
      > > > hammer. I asked him shims he took out. Shims, what shims? was his
      > answer.
      > > > Lucky I found the rod bearing shims in his clean up solvent bucket and
      > was
      > > > able to adjust his rods so the engine was tight, but could turn over and
      > > > broken in. Had no Plastigage of course..
      > > >
      > > > John Meacham
      > > > High desert of California
      > > > 3.5 gauge LBSC Virginia 4-4-0
      > > > 3.5 gauge LBSC Tich 0-4-0
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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