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Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue

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  • Thomas Bradley
    Hey dude, Just a thought... After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car yourself
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 8, 2009
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      Hey dude,
      Just a thought...
      After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car yourself then you should also be able to replace the solenoid contacts just as easily rather than having it done by someone else. 
       

      Thomas
      myothersupra
      --------------
      98TT 6-Speed MkIV
      93TT Auto MkIV
      92T Auto MkIII
      88 5-Speed MkIII
      84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
      81 5-Speed MkI
      01 ZRX-1200R

      --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...> wrote:


      From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
      Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
      To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
      Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM


      Thomas,

      Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to
      have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside
      the starter soleniods are being worn down.

      The starter maybe be heading towards this issue
      from a thread way back in 10/06.
      http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html

      Marlon


      --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

      > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
      > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
      > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
      > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM
      > Hey Marlon,
      > The rust was probably the culpret in your case, but
      > the contacts inside the starter soleniod could also be worn
      > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it may
      > have shifted that contact's position slightly and made
      > enough of a connection in the solenoid to start the car
      > again.
      > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of one
      > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that feeds
      > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's plunger is
      > powered and engaged by the starter relay.
      > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly over
      > time the copper is burned away by the current's arc'ing as
      > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner and
      > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't pass
      > enough current at random or in some cases when they're
      > totally eaten away  it can't make the connection at
      > all anymore even though the the solenoid plunger is being
      > properly engaged.
      >  
      > I've also had an experience on my 93TT Automatic MkIV
      > Supra where the starter wire bolt on a cheap set
      > of lead aftermarket battery terminals (came on with the
      > car when I bought it, damit) had backed out ever so
      > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the electrical
      > system was funrctioning properly, and the solenoid engaged
      > properly but the starter didn't operate.  I closed the
      > hood, tried turning the key again, and the car started once
      > on the first try, then didn't start the next time I turned
      > the key.  I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k miles on
      > the odometer (fairly common MkIII Supra issue at around
      > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a coulpe of
      > times as an experiment and finally the car started again. 
      > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again) and they
      > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to move
      > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of force
      > by hand then the car started every time
      >  I turned the key after that so I tightened the bolt on
      > that terminal and it's been fine since.
      >
      >  
      > Thomas
      > myothersupra
      > --------------
      > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
      > 93TT Auto MkIV
      > 92T Auto MkIII
      > 88 5-Speed MkIII
      > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
      > 81 5-Speed MkI
      > 01 E-Shift IS300
      > 01 ZRX-1200R
      >  
      >
      > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
      > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
      > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
      > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM
      >
      >
      > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the trouble
      > shooting were
      > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on the
      > starter wire
      > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean. I've
      > experienced a
      > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica with
      > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance) builds
      > up between the terminal
      > post the battery wires and the Celica would not
      > start(crank) until the
      > battery posts were cleaned.
      >
      > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly builds up
      > on the starter
      > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped being a
      > daily driver
      > since 95K miles.
      >
      > Marlon
      >
      >
      > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel <dengel1012@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      > > From: David Engel <dengel1012@...>
      > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
      > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
      > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM
      > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion
      > > you saw?  That was it.
      > >
      > > David
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Marlon S" <jza80_gte@...>
      > > To: <mkiv@...>
      > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM
      > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
      > >
      > >
      > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting issue
      > with
      > > the Supra.
      > > > The issue I had with the car was the starter
      > would not
      > > crank the engine.
      > > > All I heard was a click when the key was turned
      > to
      > > START.
      > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the
      > terminal
      > > posts. Followed the
      > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the starting
      > > circuit. Starter relay,
      > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed owners
      > manual to
      > > disengage the
      > > > ignition kill if it did engage.
      > > >
      > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to remove
      > the
      > > atarter as the next
      > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for the
      > starter
      > > wire was covered
      > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I
      > decided to
      > > use battery cleaner
      > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the starter
      > wire
      > > and starter post
      > > > because the contacts looked dull. After fastening
      > the
      > > starter wire back
      > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because the
      > car
      > > started!
      > > >
      > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to do a
      > > little more work with
      > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local hardware
      > store to
      > > replace the
      > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged) and
      > sanded
      > > down the
      > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts with
      > > anti-seize and buttoned
      > > > everything back up.
      > > >
      > > > The only question I have for the list is what
      > formed
      > > between the contacts?
      > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it took
      > some
      > > effort to loosen it.
      > > >
      > > > Marlon
      > > > '94 Supra TT A340E
      > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > _______________________________________________
      > > > Mkiv mailing list
      > > > Mkiv@...
      > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _______________________________________________
      > > Mkiv mailing list
      > > Mkiv@...
      > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
      > >
      >
      >
      >      
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > Mkiv mailing list
      > Mkiv@...
      > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > Mkiv mailing list
      > Mkiv@...
      > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
      >


           


      _______________________________________________
      Mkiv mailing list
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      http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv




      _______________________________________________
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      http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
    • Marlon S
      Thanks. I ll check and see if Toyco sells the solenoid contacts separately. Marlon 94 Supra TT A340E 90 Celica GT 5spd ...
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 10, 2009
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        Thanks. I'll check and see if Toyco
        sells the solenoid contacts separately.

        Marlon
        '94 Supra TT A340E
        '90 Celica GT 5spd


        --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

        > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
        > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
        > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
        > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:02 PM
        > Hey dude,
        > Just a thought...
        > After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can
        > also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car
        > yourself then you should also be able to replace the
        > solenoid contacts just as easily rather than having it done
        > by someone else. 
        >  
        >
        > Thomas
        > myothersupra
        > --------------
        > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
        > 93TT Auto MkIV
        > 92T Auto MkIII
        > 88 5-Speed MkIII
        > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
        > 81 5-Speed MkI
        > 01 ZRX-1200R
        >
        > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
        > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
        > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
        > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM
        >
        >
        > Thomas,
        >
        > Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to
        > have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside
        > the starter soleniods are being worn down.
        >
        > The starter maybe be heading towards this issue
        > from a thread way back in 10/06.
        > http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html
        >
        > Marlon
        >
        >
        > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
        > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
        > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
        > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM
        > > Hey Marlon,
        > > The rust was probably the culpret in your case, but
        > > the contacts inside the starter soleniod could also
        > be worn
        > > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it
        > may
        > > have shifted that contact's position slightly and
        > made
        > > enough of a connection in the solenoid to start the
        > car
        > > again.
        > > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of
        > one
        > > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that
        > feeds
        > > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's
        > plunger is
        > > powered and engaged by the starter relay.
        > > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly
        > over
        > > time the copper is burned away by the current's
        > arc'ing as
        > > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner
        > and
        > > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't
        > pass
        > > enough current at random or in some cases when
        > they're
        > > totally eaten away  it can't make the connection at
        > > all anymore even though the the solenoid plunger is
        > being
        > > properly engaged.
        > >  
        > > I've also had an experience on my 93TT Automatic
        > MkIV
        > > Supra where the starter wire bolt on a cheap set
        > > of lead aftermarket battery terminals (came on with
        > the
        > > car when I bought it, damit) had backed out ever so
        > > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the
        > electrical
        > > system was funrctioning properly, and the solenoid
        > engaged
        > > properly but the starter didn't operate.  I closed
        > the
        > > hood, tried turning the key again, and the car
        > started once
        > > on the first try, then didn't start the next time I
        > turned
        > > the key.  I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k
        > miles on
        > > the odometer (fairly common MkIII Supra issue at
        > around
        > > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a
        > coulpe of
        > > times as an experiment and finally the car started
        > again. 
        > > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again) and
        > they
        > > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to
        > move
        > > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of
        > force
        > > by hand then the car started every time
        > >  I turned the key after that so I tightened the bolt
        > on
        > > that terminal and it's been fine since.
        > >
        > >  
        > > Thomas
        > > myothersupra
        > > --------------
        > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
        > > 93TT Auto MkIV
        > > 92T Auto MkIII
        > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
        > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
        > > 81 5-Speed MkI
        > > 01 E-Shift IS300
        > > 01 ZRX-1200R
        > >  
        > >
        > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
        > > wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
        > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
        > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
        > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM
        > >
        > >
        > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the
        > trouble
        > > shooting were
        > > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on
        > the
        > > starter wire
        > > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean.
        > I've
        > > experienced a
        > > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica
        > with
        > > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance)
        > builds
        > > up between the terminal
        > > post the battery wires and the Celica would not
        > > start(crank) until the
        > > battery posts were cleaned.
        > >
        > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly
        > builds up
        > > on the starter
        > > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped
        > being a
        > > daily driver
        > > since 95K miles.
        > >
        > > Marlon
        > >
        > >
        > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel <dengel1012@...>
        > > wrote:
        > >
        > > > From: David Engel <dengel1012@...>
        > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting
        > issue
        > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
        > > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM
        > > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion
        > > > you saw?  That was it.
        > > >
        > > > David
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: "Marlon S" <jza80_gte@...>
        > > > To: <mkiv@...>
        > > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM
        > > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting
        > issue
        > > with
        > > > the Supra.
        > > > > The issue I had with the car was the
        > starter
        > > would not
        > > > crank the engine.
        > > > > All I heard was a click when the key was
        > turned
        > > to
        > > > START.
        > > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the
        > > terminal
        > > > posts. Followed the
        > > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the
        > starting
        > > > circuit. Starter relay,
        > > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed
        > owners
        > > manual to
        > > > disengage the
        > > > > ignition kill if it did engage.
        > > > >
        > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to
        > remove
        > > the
        > > > atarter as the next
        > > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for
        > the
        > > starter
        > > > wire was covered
        > > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I
        > > decided to
        > > > use battery cleaner
        > > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the
        > starter
        > > wire
        > > > and starter post
        > > > > because the contacts looked dull. After
        > fastening
        > > the
        > > > starter wire back
        > > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because
        > the
        > > car
        > > > started!
        > > > >
        > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to
        > do a
        > > > little more work with
        > > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local
        > hardware
        > > store to
        > > > replace the
        > > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged)
        > and
        > > sanded
        > > > down the
        > > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts
        > with
        > > > anti-seize and buttoned
        > > > > everything back up.
        > > > >
        > > > > The only question I have for the list is
        > what
        > > formed
        > > > between the contacts?
        > > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it
        > took
        > > some
        > > > effort to loosen it.
        > > > >
        > > > > Marlon
        > > > > '94 Supra TT A340E
        > > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > _______________________________________________
        > > > > Mkiv mailing list
        > > > > Mkiv@...
        > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > _______________________________________________
        > > > Mkiv mailing list
        > > > Mkiv@...
        > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >      
        > >
        > >
        > > _______________________________________________
        > > Mkiv mailing list
        > > Mkiv@...
        > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _______________________________________________
        > > Mkiv mailing list
        > > Mkiv@...
        > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
        > >
        >
        >
        >      
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Mkiv mailing list
        > Mkiv@...
        > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Mkiv mailing list
        > Mkiv@...
        > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
        >





        _______________________________________________
        Mkiv mailing list
        Mkiv@...
        http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
      • Thomas Bradley
        Hey dude, Something you should know... Some dealers say yes and sell just the two contacts separately from the starter (with hardware iirc) for really cheap
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 10, 2009
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          Hey dude,
          Something you should know...
          Some dealers say yes and sell just the two contacts separately from the starter (with hardware iirc) for really cheap (like $15-$25ish for both), but some dealers totally insist that they're not available separately and will try to make you buy the whole starter which besides being totally unnecessary is obviously a LOT more expensive. 
          If you can't find them at your local Toyota dealers' parts department and/or they want far too much for them, then just call Jeff Watson at Champion Toyota or Curt Aigner at Elmhurst Toyota and they'll get you what you need at a fair price.
           
          I've purchased and installed the starter contacts for my 87 MkIII Supra and several friends' MkIII starters over the past 10 years, I've also replaced them in a couple of friends' higher mileage MkIV's since 2004, and I just bought a set from Jeff at Champion Toyota back in March of this year for my 93TT so I know they can still be had separately from some Toyota dealers.

          Also, unless your TT is a conversion, it's the E340i not the A340E which the MkIII automatic Supras and I think certain years of the automatic MkII's also have. 
          There are more control/shifting solenoids and more "intelligent" electronics in the MkIV automatic than the A340E has and although they're probably very similar they're certainly not readily interchangeable under normal circumstances and I actually prefer the behavior of the A340E better, stock for stock...  Although a bit more sloppy, the A340E was far more predictable and much easier to manipulate with different gas pedal movements, especially when going from cruising to WOT, and it doesn't have or need the "kick down switch" under the gas pedal like the MkIV's E340i has, plus I really liked the MkII/III's Norm/Pwr mode switch instead of letting the MkIV's "intelligent" tranny computer try to guess what I really want all the time...

          But anyway...  :)
           
          Later dude,
           
           
          Thomas
          myothersupra
          --------------
          98TT 6-Speed MkIV
          93TT Auto MkIV
          92T Auto MkIII
          88 5-Speed MkIII
          84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
          81 5-Speed MkI
          01 ZRX-1200R

          --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...> wrote:


          From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
          Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
          To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
          Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:46 PM


          Thanks. I'll check and see if Toyco
          sells the solenoid contacts separately.

          Marlon
          '94 Supra TT A340E
          '90 Celica GT 5spd


          --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

          > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
          > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
          > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
          > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:02 PM
          > Hey dude,
          > Just a thought...
          > After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can
          > also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car
          > yourself then you should also be able to replace the
          > solenoid contacts just as easily rather than having it done
          > by someone else. 
          >  
          >
          > Thomas
          > myothersupra
          > --------------
          > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
          > 93TT Auto MkIV
          > 92T Auto MkIII
          > 88 5-Speed MkIII
          > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
          > 81 5-Speed MkI
          > 01 ZRX-1200R
          >
          > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
          > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
          > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
          > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM
          >
          >
          > Thomas,
          >
          > Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to
          > have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside
          > the starter soleniods are being worn down.
          >
          > The starter maybe be heading towards this issue
          > from a thread way back in 10/06.
          > http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html
          >
          > Marlon
          >
          >
          > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
          > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
          > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
          > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM
          > > Hey Marlon,
          > > The rust was probably the culpret in your case, but
          > > the contacts inside the starter soleniod could also
          > be worn
          > > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it
          > may
          > > have shifted that contact's position slightly and
          > made
          > > enough of a connection in the solenoid to start the
          > car
          > > again.
          > > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of
          > one
          > > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that
          > feeds
          > > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's
          > plunger is
          > > powered and engaged by the starter relay.
          > > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly
          > over
          > > time the copper is burned away by the current's
          > arc'ing as
          > > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner
          > and
          > > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't
          > pass
          > > enough current at random or in some cases when
          > they're
          > > totally eaten away  it can't make the connection at
          > > all anymore even though the the solenoid plunger is
          > being
          > > properly engaged.
          > >  
          > > I've also had an experience on my 93TT Automatic
          > MkIV
          > > Supra where the starter wire bolt on a cheap set
          > > of lead aftermarket battery terminals (came on with
          > the
          > > car when I bought it, damit) had backed out ever so
          > > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the
          > electrical
          > > system was funrctioning properly, and the solenoid
          > engaged
          > > properly but the starter didn't operate.  I closed
          > the
          > > hood, tried turning the key again, and the car
          > started once
          > > on the first try, then didn't start the next time I
          > turned
          > > the key.  I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k
          > miles on
          > > the odometer (fairly common MkIII Supra issue at
          > around
          > > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a
          > coulpe of
          > > times as an experiment and finally the car started
          > again. 
          > > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again) and
          > they
          > > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to
          > move
          > > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of
          > force
          > > by hand then the car started every time
          > >  I turned the key after that so I tightened the bolt
          > on
          > > that terminal and it's been fine since.
          > >
          > >  
          > > Thomas
          > > myothersupra
          > > --------------
          > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
          > > 93TT Auto MkIV
          > > 92T Auto MkIII
          > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
          > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
          > > 81 5-Speed MkI
          > > 01 E-Shift IS300
          > > 01 ZRX-1200R
          > >  
          > >
          > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
          > > wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
          > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
          > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
          > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM
          > >
          > >
          > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the
          > trouble
          > > shooting were
          > > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on
          > the
          > > starter wire
          > > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean.
          > I've
          > > experienced a
          > > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica
          > with
          > > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance)
          > builds
          > > up between the terminal
          > > post the battery wires and the Celica would not
          > > start(crank) until the
          > > battery posts were cleaned.
          > >
          > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly
          > builds up
          > > on the starter
          > > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped
          > being a
          > > daily driver
          > > since 95K miles.
          > >
          > > Marlon
          > >
          > >
          > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel <dengel1012@...>
          > > wrote:
          > >
          > > > From: David Engel <dengel1012@...>
          > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting
          > issue
          > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
          > > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM
          > > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion
          > > > you saw?  That was it.
          > > >
          > > > David
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: "Marlon S" <jza80_gte@...>
          > > > To: <mkiv@...>
          > > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM
          > > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting
          > issue
          > > with
          > > > the Supra.
          > > > > The issue I had with the car was the
          > starter
          > > would not
          > > > crank the engine.
          > > > > All I heard was a click when the key was
          > turned
          > > to
          > > > START.
          > > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the
          > > terminal
          > > > posts. Followed the
          > > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the
          > starting
          > > > circuit. Starter relay,
          > > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed
          > owners
          > > manual to
          > > > disengage the
          > > > > ignition kill if it did engage.
          > > > >
          > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to
          > remove
          > > the
          > > > atarter as the next
          > > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for
          > the
          > > starter
          > > > wire was covered
          > > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I
          > > decided to
          > > > use battery cleaner
          > > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the
          > starter
          > > wire
          > > > and starter post
          > > > > because the contacts looked dull. After
          > fastening
          > > the
          > > > starter wire back
          > > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because
          > the
          > > car
          > > > started!
          > > > >
          > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to
          > do a
          > > > little more work with
          > > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local
          > hardware
          > > store to
          > > > replace the
          > > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged)
          > and
          > > sanded
          > > > down the
          > > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts
          > with
          > > > anti-seize and buttoned
          > > > > everything back up.
          > > > >
          > > > > The only question I have for the list is
          > what
          > > formed
          > > > between the contacts?
          > > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it
          > took
          > > some
          > > > effort to loosen it.
          > > > >
          > > > > Marlon
          > > > > '94 Supra TT A340E
          > > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > _______________________________________________
          > > > > Mkiv mailing list
          > > > > Mkiv@...
          > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > _______________________________________________
          > > > Mkiv mailing list
          > > > Mkiv@...
          > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >      
          > >
          > >
          > > _______________________________________________
          > > Mkiv mailing list
          > > Mkiv@...
          > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _______________________________________________
          > > Mkiv mailing list
          > > Mkiv@...
          > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
          > >
          >
          >
          >      
          >
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Mkiv mailing list
          > Mkiv@...
          > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Mkiv mailing list
          > Mkiv@...
          > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
          >


               


          _______________________________________________
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        • Bill Lawry
          I had a III before the IV and I agree generally that the ergonomics of the III are better than the IV - noise level, seating, A/C, controls positioning,...
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 11, 2009
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            I had a III before the IV and I agree generally that the ergonomics of the
            III are better than the IV - noise level, seating, A/C, controls
            positioning,... but for handling and acceleration

            On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:54 AM, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>wrote:

            > Hey dude,
            > Something you should know...
            > Some dealers say yes and sell just the two contacts separately from the
            > starter (with hardware iirc) for really cheap (like $15-$25ish for both),
            > but some dealers totally insist that they're not available separately and
            > will try to make you buy the whole starter which besides being totally
            > unnecessary is obviously a LOT more expensive.
            > If you can't find them at your local Toyota dealers' parts department
            > and/or they want far too much for them, then just call Jeff Watson at
            > Champion Toyota or Curt Aigner at Elmhurst Toyota and they'll get you what
            > you need at a fair price.
            >
            > I've purchased and installed the starter contacts for my 87 MkIII Supra and
            > several friends' MkIII starters over the past 10 years, I've also replaced
            > them in a couple of friends' higher mileage MkIV's since 2004, and I just
            > bought a set from Jeff at Champion Toyota back in March of this year for my
            > 93TT so I know they can still be had separately from some Toyota dealers.
            >
            > Also, unless your TT is a conversion, it's the E340i not the A340E which
            > the MkIII automatic Supras and I think certain years of the automatic MkII's
            > also have.
            > There are more control/shifting solenoids and more "intelligent"
            > electronics in the MkIV automatic than the A340E has and although they're
            > probably very similar they're certainly not readily interchangeable under
            > normal circumstances and I actually prefer the behavior of the A340E better,
            > stock for stock... Although a bit more sloppy, the A340E was far more
            > predictable and much easier to manipulate with different gas pedal
            > movements, especially when going from cruising to WOT, and it doesn't have
            > or need the "kick down switch" under the gas pedal like the MkIV's E340i
            > has, plus I really liked the MkII/III's Norm/Pwr mode switch instead of
            > letting the MkIV's "intelligent" tranny computer try to guess what I really
            > want all the time...
            >
            > But anyway... :)
            >
            > Later dude,
            >
            >
            > Thomas
            > myothersupra
            > --------------
            > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
            > 93TT Auto MkIV
            > 92T Auto MkIII
            > 88 5-Speed MkIII
            > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
            > 81 5-Speed MkI
            > 01 ZRX-1200R
            >
            > --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
            > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
            > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
            > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:46 PM
            >
            >
            > Thanks. I'll check and see if Toyco
            > sells the solenoid contacts separately.
            >
            > Marlon
            > '94 Supra TT A340E
            > '90 Celica GT 5spd
            >
            >
            > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:
            >
            > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
            > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
            > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
            > > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:02 PM
            > > Hey dude,
            > > Just a thought...
            > > After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can
            > > also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car
            > > yourself then you should also be able to replace the
            > > solenoid contacts just as easily rather than having it done
            > > by someone else.
            > >
            > >
            > > Thomas
            > > myothersupra
            > > --------------
            > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
            > > 93TT Auto MkIV
            > > 92T Auto MkIII
            > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
            > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
            > > 81 5-Speed MkI
            > > 01 ZRX-1200R
            > >
            > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
            > > wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
            > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
            > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
            > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM
            > >
            > >
            > > Thomas,
            > >
            > > Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to
            > > have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside
            > > the starter soleniods are being worn down.
            > >
            > > The starter maybe be heading towards this issue
            > > from a thread way back in 10/06.
            > > http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html
            > >
            > > Marlon
            > >
            > >
            > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
            > > wrote:
            > >
            > > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
            > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
            > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
            > > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM
            > > > Hey Marlon,
            > > > The rust was probably the culpret in your case, but
            > > > the contacts inside the starter soleniod could also
            > > be worn
            > > > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it
            > > may
            > > > have shifted that contact's position slightly and
            > > made
            > > > enough of a connection in the solenoid to start the
            > > car
            > > > again.
            > > > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of
            > > one
            > > > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that
            > > feeds
            > > > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's
            > > plunger is
            > > > powered and engaged by the starter relay.
            > > > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly
            > > over
            > > > time the copper is burned away by the current's
            > > arc'ing as
            > > > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner
            > > and
            > > > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't
            > > pass
            > > > enough current at random or in some cases when
            > > they're
            > > > totally eaten away it can't make the connection at
            > > > all anymore even though the the solenoid plunger is
            > > being
            > > > properly engaged.
            > > >
            > > > I've also had an experience on my 93TT Automatic
            > > MkIV
            > > > Supra where the starter wire bolt on a cheap set
            > > > of lead aftermarket battery terminals (came on with
            > > the
            > > > car when I bought it, damit) had backed out ever so
            > > > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the
            > > electrical
            > > > system was funrctioning properly, and the solenoid
            > > engaged
            > > > properly but the starter didn't operate. I closed
            > > the
            > > > hood, tried turning the key again, and the car
            > > started once
            > > > on the first try, then didn't start the next time I
            > > turned
            > > > the key. I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k
            > > miles on
            > > > the odometer (fairly common MkIII Supra issue at
            > > around
            > > > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a
            > > coulpe of
            > > > times as an experiment and finally the car started
            > > again.
            > > > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again) and
            > > they
            > > > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to
            > > move
            > > > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of
            > > force
            > > > by hand then the car started every time
            > > > I turned the key after that so I tightened the bolt
            > > on
            > > > that terminal and it's been fine since.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Thomas
            > > > myothersupra
            > > > --------------
            > > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
            > > > 93TT Auto MkIV
            > > > 92T Auto MkIII
            > > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
            > > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
            > > > 81 5-Speed MkI
            > > > 01 E-Shift IS300
            > > > 01 ZRX-1200R
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
            > > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
            > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
            > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
            > > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the
            > > trouble
            > > > shooting were
            > > > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on
            > > the
            > > > starter wire
            > > > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean.
            > > I've
            > > > experienced a
            > > > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica
            > > with
            > > > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance)
            > > builds
            > > > up between the terminal
            > > > post the battery wires and the Celica would not
            > > > start(crank) until the
            > > > battery posts were cleaned.
            > > >
            > > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly
            > > builds up
            > > > on the starter
            > > > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped
            > > being a
            > > > daily driver
            > > > since 95K miles.
            > > >
            > > > Marlon
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel <dengel1012@...>
            > > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > From: David Engel <dengel1012@...>
            > > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting
            > > issue
            > > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
            > > > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM
            > > > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion
            > > > > you saw? That was it.
            > > > >
            > > > > David
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > > From: "Marlon S" <jza80_gte@...>
            > > > > To: <mkiv@...>
            > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM
            > > > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting
            > > issue
            > > > with
            > > > > the Supra.
            > > > > > The issue I had with the car was the
            > > starter
            > > > would not
            > > > > crank the engine.
            > > > > > All I heard was a click when the key was
            > > turned
            > > > to
            > > > > START.
            > > > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the
            > > > terminal
            > > > > posts. Followed the
            > > > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the
            > > starting
            > > > > circuit. Starter relay,
            > > > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed
            > > owners
            > > > manual to
            > > > > disengage the
            > > > > > ignition kill if it did engage.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to
            > > remove
            > > > the
            > > > > atarter as the next
            > > > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for
            > > the
            > > > starter
            > > > > wire was covered
            > > > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I
            > > > decided to
            > > > > use battery cleaner
            > > > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the
            > > starter
            > > > wire
            > > > > and starter post
            > > > > > because the contacts looked dull. After
            > > fastening
            > > > the
            > > > > starter wire back
            > > > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because
            > > the
            > > > car
            > > > > started!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to
            > > do a
            > > > > little more work with
            > > > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local
            > > hardware
            > > > store to
            > > > > replace the
            > > > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged)
            > > and
            > > > sanded
            > > > > down the
            > > > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts
            > > with
            > > > > anti-seize and buttoned
            > > > > > everything back up.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The only question I have for the list is
            > > what
            > > > formed
            > > > > between the contacts?
            > > > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it
            > > took
            > > > some
            > > > > effort to loosen it.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Marlon
            > > > > > '94 Supra TT A340E
            > > > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > _______________________________________________
            > > > > > Mkiv mailing list
            > > > > > Mkiv@...
            > > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > _______________________________________________
            > > > > Mkiv mailing list
            > > > > Mkiv@...
            > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _______________________________________________
            > > > Mkiv mailing list
            > > > Mkiv@...
            > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _______________________________________________
            > > > Mkiv mailing list
            > > > Mkiv@...
            > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _______________________________________________
            > > Mkiv mailing list
            > > Mkiv@...
            > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _______________________________________________
            > > Mkiv mailing list
            > > Mkiv@...
            > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > Mkiv mailing list
            > Mkiv@...
            > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > Mkiv mailing list
            > Mkiv@...
            > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
            >
            _______________________________________________
            Mkiv mailing list
            Mkiv@...
            http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
          • Thomas Bradley
            Hi all, Sorry for the length in advance!   I could really use some help from the MkIV tech guru s around here, please.  :)   I ve got an issue that used to
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 12, 2009
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              Hi all,
              Sorry for the length in advance!
               
              I could really use some help from the MkIV tech guru's around here, please.  :)
               
              I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I can't seem to solve it completely..
               
              I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't find much info on code 71 or 89.
               
              I've done a few things and now it only happens on really hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but it happens without the a/c too and I don't know what else to do to try and solve it...
               
              I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!  all three simultaneously every time...
              Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week, especially in mid summer.
               
              Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make any difference.
               
              I'll be driving along for a while then all of a sudden Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by C.E.L. all within about a second. 
              Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or parking the car for a while doesn't make any difference. 
              They come back on with the key and stick around a while.
              If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually all go out one by one within a second of each other again and stay gone for a long while.  It's rare to see them come and go twice on the same drive.  
               
              I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if they were active when the fuse was removed.
               
              In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but didn't solve it...
              This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug is disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't solve it completely.  We don't have smog or emissions tests here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
               
              Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and may be unrelated....
              When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer circuit boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two problems went from constant to gone.
               
              I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any info on it other than "Trac ECU".
              Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days...   :)
              I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem to figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press the trac off button when I want to play...
               
              iirc:
              Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
              Code 71 EGR Malfunction
              Code 89 TRAC ECU

              These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none stored to all three together every time this happens.
               
              The cruise still works even while these codes and lights are actively showing up.
               
              It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to trigger it.
               
              I don't get what these three things have in common.
               
              Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
               
              Thanks in advance!
               

              Thomas
              myothersupra
              --------------
              98TT 6-Speed MkIV
              93TT Auto MkIV
              92T Auto MkIII
              88 5-Speed MkIII
              84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
              81 5-Speed MkI
              01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R



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            • John Cribb
              Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all the joints in the cluster, not just the
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 12, 2009
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                Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html

                Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in, etc. but no joy.

                John
                '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop


                --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

                > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...  wth???
                > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM
                > Hi all,
                > Sorry for the length in advance!
                >  
                > I could really use some help from the MkIV tech guru's
                > around here, please.  :)
                >  
                > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought
                > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I
                > can't seem to solve it completely..
                >  
                > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't
                > find much info on code 71 or 89.
                >  
                > I've done a few things and now it only happens on really
                > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles
                > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but it
                > happens without the a/c too and I don't know what else to
                > do to try and solve it...
                >  
                > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!  all three
                > simultaneously every time...
                > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week,
                > especially in mid summer.
                >  
                > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make
                > any difference.
                >  
                > I'll be driving along for a while then all of a sudden
                > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by
                > C.E.L. all within about a second. 
                > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or
                > parking the car for a while doesn't make any difference. 
                >
                > They come back on with the key and stick around a while.
                > If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually
                > all go out one by one within a second of each other again
                > and stay gone for a long while.  It's rare to see them come
                > and go twice on the same drive.  
                >  
                > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily
                > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if they
                > were active when the fuse was removed.
                >  
                > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but
                > didn't solve it...
                > This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost
                > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug is
                > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the
                > harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped
                > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't
                > solve it completely.  We don't have smog or emissions tests
                > here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
                >  
                > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and
                > may be unrelated....
                > When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't
                > on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the
                > cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer circuit
                > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two
                > problems went from constant to gone.
                >  
                > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any
                > info on it other than "Trac ECU".
                > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days...   :)
                >
                > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to
                > look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem to
                > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different
                > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press
                > the trac off button when I want to play...
                >  
                > iirc:
                > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
                > Code 71 EGR Malfunction
                > Code 89 TRAC ECU
                >
                > These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated
                > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none
                > stored to all three together every time this happens.
                >  
                > The cruise still works even while these codes and lights
                > are actively showing up.
                >  
                > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days
                > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to
                > trigger it.
                >  
                > I don't get what these three things have in common.
                >  
                > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
                >  
                > Thanks in advance!
                >  
                >
                > Thomas
                > myothersupra
                > --------------
                > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                > 93TT Auto MkIV
                > 92T Auto MkIII
                > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                > 81 5-Speed MkI
                > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R
                >
                >
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Mkiv mailing list
                > Mkiv@...
                > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                >



                _______________________________________________
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              • Thomas Bradley
                Hey John, Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I ve got with this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to try and solve it, which
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 13, 2009
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                  Hey John,
                  Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I've got with this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to try and solve it, which helped some but didn't solve it...
                   
                  Anyone have any insight into what we're missing about this issue?
                   
                  Already did that tech tip (both sides) shortly after I bought the car.  I'm very familiar with it. 
                  It didn't solve the problems, just made them apparent as most of the warning lamps in the left and right warning pods and instrument cluster itself didn't work when I bought the car...  no suprise there with 120k miles on a bone stock TT Supra...
                   
                  The odo resolder fixed the cruise completely and helped the code 42 go from constant to only showing up when the other 2 codes show up, 42, 71, 89, all simultaneously.
                   
                  w.t.h...
                   
                  Thomas
                   
                  --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb <johnacribb@...> wrote:

                  From: John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                  Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth???
                  To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                  Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:57 AM

                  Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html

                  Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in, etc. but no joy.

                  John
                  '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop


                  --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

                  > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                  > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...  wth???
                  > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                  > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM
                  > Hi all,
                  > Sorry for the length in advance!
                  >  
                  > I could really use some help from the MkIV tech guru's
                  > around here, please.  :)
                  >  
                  > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought
                  > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I
                  > can't seem to solve it completely..
                  >  
                  > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't
                  > find much info on code 71 or 89.
                  >  
                  > I've done a few things and now it only happens on really
                  > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles
                  > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but it
                  > happens without the a/c too and I don't know what else to
                  > do to try and solve it...
                  >  
                  > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!  all three
                  > simultaneously every time...
                  > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week,
                  > especially in mid summer.
                  >  
                  > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make
                  > any difference.
                  >  
                  > I'll be driving along for a while then all of a sudden
                  > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by
                  > C.E.L. all within about a second. 
                  > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or
                  > parking the car for a while doesn't make any difference. 
                  >
                  > They come back on with the key and stick around a while.
                  > If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually
                  > all go out one by one within a second of each other again
                  > and stay gone for a long while.  It's rare to see them come
                  > and go twice on the same drive.  
                  >  
                  > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily
                  > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if they
                  > were active when the fuse was removed.
                  >  
                  > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but
                  > didn't solve it...
                  > This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost
                  > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug is
                  > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the
                  > harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped
                  > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't
                  > solve it completely.  We don't have smog or emissions tests
                  > here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
                  >  
                  > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and
                  > may be unrelated....
                  > When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't
                  > on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the
                  > cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer circuit
                  > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two
                  > problems went from constant to gone.
                  >  
                  > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any
                  > info on it other than "Trac ECU".
                  > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days...   :)
                  >
                  > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to
                  > look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem to
                  > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different
                  > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press
                  > the trac off button when I want to play...
                  >  
                  > iirc:
                  > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
                  > Code 71 EGR Malfunction
                  > Code 89 TRAC ECU
                  >
                  > These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated
                  > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none
                  > stored to all three together every time this happens.
                  >  
                  > The cruise still works even while these codes and lights
                  > are actively showing up.
                  >  
                  > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days
                  > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to
                  > trigger it.
                  >  
                  > I don't get what these three things have in common.
                  >  
                  > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
                  >  
                  > Thanks in advance!
                  >  
                  >
                  > Thomas
                  > myothersupra
                  > --------------
                  > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                  > 93TT Auto MkIV
                  > 92T Auto MkIII
                  > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                  > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                  > 81 5-Speed MkI
                  > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > Mkiv mailing list
                  > Mkiv@...
                  > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                  >



                  _______________________________________________
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                  http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv




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                  http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                • John Cribb
                  Thomas, I didn t have the MIL from the EGR (71) until after I put the EGR bypass plate in, and then it only occurred infrequently, in hot weather, and only
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 13, 2009
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                    Thomas, I didn't have the MIL from the EGR (71) until after I put the EGR bypass plate in, and then it only occurred infrequently, in hot weather, and only when cruising between 30 & 50 MPH. I've disabled the rest of the EGR, put the resistor in, replaced the resistor twice, cut the harness and soldered the resistor in, etc. but no joy.

                    The other problems that you're describing, (TRAC Off, Manu, Cruise) I had when I first purchased my car, but they all were sorted when I resoldered all the points in my instrument cluster.

                    My '94 is now owned & driven by my son, but it's still tripping the 71 MIL occasionally, so I'm still keen to find a solution.

                    John
                    '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop


                    --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

                    > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth???
                    > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                    > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 5:17 AM
                    > Hey John,
                    > Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I've got with
                    > this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to
                    > try and solve it, which helped some but didn't solve it...
                    >  
                    > Anyone have any insight into what we're missing about this
                    > issue?
                    >  
                    > Already did that tech tip (both sides) shortly after I
                    > bought the car.  I'm very familiar with it. 
                    > It didn't solve the problems, just made them apparent as
                    > most of the warning lamps in the left and right
                    > warning pods and instrument cluster itself didn't work
                    > when I bought the car...  no suprise there with 120k miles
                    > on a bone stock TT Supra...
                    >  
                    > The odo resolder fixed the cruise completely and helped the
                    > code 42 go from constant to only showing up when the other
                    > 2 codes show up, 42, 71, 89, all simultaneously.
                    >  
                    > w.t.h...
                    >  
                    > Thomas
                    >  
                    > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > From: John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on
                    > hot days... wth???
                    > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                    > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:57 AM
                    >
                    > Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in
                    > the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all
                    > the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html
                    >
                    > Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your
                    > '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip
                    > a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that
                    > problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in,
                    > etc. but no joy.
                    >
                    > John
                    > '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop
                    >
                    >
                    > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                    > > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on
                    > hot days...  wth???
                    > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                    > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM
                    > > Hi all,
                    > > Sorry for the length in advance!
                    > >  
                    > > I could really use some help from the MkIV tech
                    > guru's
                    > > around here, please.  :)
                    > >  
                    > > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I
                    > bought
                    > > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot
                    > but I
                    > > can't seem to solve it completely..
                    > >  
                    > > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I
                    > can't
                    > > find much info on code 71 or 89.
                    > >  
                    > > I've done a few things and now it only happens on
                    > really
                    > > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50
                    > miles
                    > > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on,
                    > but it
                    > > happens without the a/c too and I don't know what
                    > else to
                    > > do to try and solve it...
                    > >  
                    > > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!  all
                    > three
                    > > simultaneously every time...
                    > > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a
                    > week,
                    > > especially in mid summer.
                    > >  
                    > > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to
                    > make
                    > > any difference.
                    > >  
                    > > I'll be driving along for a while then all of a
                    > sudden
                    > > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing,
                    > followed by
                    > > C.E.L. all within about a second. 
                    > > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or
                    > > parking the car for a while doesn't make any
                    > difference. 
                    > >
                    > > They come back on with the key and stick around a
                    > while.
                    > > If I keep driving for a while longer they will
                    > eventually
                    > > all go out one by one within a second of each other
                    > again
                    > > and stay gone for a long while.  It's rare to see
                    > them come
                    > > and go twice on the same drive.  
                    > >  
                    > > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them
                    > temporarily
                    > > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if
                    > they
                    > > were active when the fuse was removed.
                    > >  
                    > > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot
                    > but
                    > > didn't solve it...
                    > > This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost
                    > > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor
                    > plug is
                    > > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in
                    > the
                    > > harness connector and the vacuum lines were
                    > re-routed/capped
                    > > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but
                    > didn't
                    > > solve it completely.  We don't have smog or emissions
                    > tests
                    > > here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
                    > >  
                    > > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot,
                    > and
                    > > may be unrelated....
                    > > When I got the car, even when the other lights
                    > weren't
                    > > on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and
                    > the
                    > > cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer
                    > circuit
                    > > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those
                    > two
                    > > problems went from constant to gone.
                    > >  
                    > > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't
                    > find any
                    > > info on it other than "Trac ECU".
                    > > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy
                    > days...   :)
                    > >
                    > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having
                    > to
                    > > look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem
                    > to
                    > > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are
                    > different
                    > > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just
                    > press
                    > > the trac off button when I want to play...
                    > >  
                    > > iirc:
                    > > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
                    > > Code 71 EGR Malfunction
                    > > Code 89 TRAC ECU
                    > >
                    > > These are not random old codes from
                    > different/old/unrelated
                    > > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from
                    > none
                    > > stored to all three together every time this happens.
                    >
                    > >  
                    > > The cruise still works even while these codes and
                    > lights
                    > > are actively showing up.
                    > >  
                    > > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot
                    > days
                    > > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely
                    > to
                    > > trigger it.
                    > >  
                    > > I don't get what these three things have in common.
                    > >  
                    > > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
                    > >  
                    > > Thanks in advance!
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > > Thomas
                    > > myothersupra
                    > > --------------
                    > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                    > > 93TT Auto MkIV
                    > > 92T Auto MkIII
                    > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                    > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                    > > 81 5-Speed MkI
                    > > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _______________________________________________
                    > > Mkiv mailing list
                    > > Mkiv@...
                    > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Mkiv mailing list
                    > Mkiv@...
                    > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Mkiv mailing list
                    > Mkiv@...
                    > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                    >


                    _______________________________________________
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                  • Thomas Bradley
                    Hey John,   Totally O.T. question... Were you at TX2K9 back in March?   This car has had issues with the EGR since before I bought it although they re much
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 13, 2009
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                      Hey John,
                       
                      Totally O.T. question...
                      Were you at TX2K9 back in March?
                       
                      This car has had issues with the EGR since before I bought it although they're much better now that it doesn't have completely fubar smoking twins on it anymore.  The EGR parts are still bolted to the head but the vacuum lines are all disconnected and the sensor connector's been resistor'd which helped immensely but didn't solve it.
                       
                      I'm wondering if all the crap which included both oil and coolant that was getting past the bad turbo's shaft seal into both the intake and the exhaust has just clogged up the EGR system and coated and upset its' temp sensor.  I've put close to 7k miles on it since the fubar factory turbos were replaced and it doesn't smoke at all anymore so I'm not sure...
                       
                      I'm not having any issues with the manu button and indicator other than once the three codes are tripped including the 89, the manu and trac off buttons don't change the state of their indicator lamps 'till the codes decide to clear or I reset the ecu.

                      Thomas

                      --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb <johnacribb@...> wrote:
                      From: John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                      Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth???
                      To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                      Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 8:43 AM

                      Thomas, I didn't have the MIL from the EGR (71) until after I put the EGR bypass plate in, and then it only occurred infrequently, in hot weather, and only when cruising between 30 & 50 MPH. I've disabled the rest of the EGR, put the resistor in, replaced the resistor twice, cut the harness and soldered the resistor in, etc. but no joy.

                      The other problems that you're describing, (TRAC Off, Manu, Cruise) I had when I first purchased my car, but they all were sorted when I resoldered all the points in my instrument cluster.

                      My '94 is now owned & driven by my son, but it's still tripping the 71 MIL occasionally, so I'm still keen to find a solution.

                      John
                      '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop


                      --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

                      > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...  wth???
                      > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                      > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 5:17 AM
                      > Hey John,
                      > Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I've got with
                      > this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to
                      > try and solve it, which helped some but didn't solve it...
                      >  
                      > Anyone have any insight into what we're missing about this
                      > issue?
                      >  
                      > Already did that tech tip (both sides) shortly after I
                      > bought the car.  I'm very familiar with it. 
                      > It didn't solve the problems, just made them apparent as
                      > most of the warning lamps in the left and right
                      > warning pods and instrument cluster itself didn't work
                      > when I bought the car...  no suprise there with 120k miles
                      > on a bone stock TT Supra...
                      >  
                      > The odo resolder fixed the cruise completely and helped the
                      > code 42 go from constant to only showing up when the other
                      > 2 codes show up, 42, 71, 89, all simultaneously.
                      >  
                      > w.t.h...
                      >  
                      > Thomas
                      >  
                      > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > From: John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on
                      > hot days... wth???
                      > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                      > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:57 AM
                      >
                      > Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in
                      > the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all
                      > the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html
                      >
                      > Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your
                      > '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip
                      > a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that
                      > problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in,
                      > etc. but no joy.
                      >
                      > John
                      > '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                      > > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on
                      > hot days...  wth???
                      > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                      > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM
                      > > Hi all,
                      > > Sorry for the length in advance!
                      > >  
                      > > I could really use some help from the MkIV tech
                      > guru's
                      > > around here, please.  :)
                      > >  
                      > > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I
                      > bought
                      > > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot
                      > but I
                      > > can't seem to solve it completely..
                      > >  
                      > > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I
                      > can't
                      > > find much info on code 71 or 89.
                      > >  
                      > > I've done a few things and now it only happens on
                      > really
                      > > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50
                      > miles
                      > > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on,
                      > but it
                      > > happens without the a/c too and I don't know what
                      > else to
                      > > do to try and solve it...
                      > >  
                      > > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!  all
                      > three
                      > > simultaneously every time...
                      > > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a
                      > week,
                      > > especially in mid summer.
                      > >  
                      > > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to
                      > make
                      > > any difference.
                      > >  
                      > > I'll be driving along for a while then all of a
                      > sudden
                      > > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing,
                      > followed by
                      > > C.E.L. all within about a second. 
                      > > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or
                      > > parking the car for a while doesn't make any
                      > difference. 
                      > >
                      > > They come back on with the key and stick around a
                      > while.
                      > > If I keep driving for a while longer they will
                      > eventually
                      > > all go out one by one within a second of each other
                      > again
                      > > and stay gone for a long while.  It's rare to see
                      > them come
                      > > and go twice on the same drive.  
                      > >  
                      > > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them
                      > temporarily
                      > > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if
                      > they
                      > > were active when the fuse was removed.
                      > >  
                      > > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot
                      > but
                      > > didn't solve it...
                      > > This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost
                      > > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor
                      > plug is
                      > > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in
                      > the
                      > > harness connector and the vacuum lines were
                      > re-routed/capped
                      > > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but
                      > didn't
                      > > solve it completely.  We don't have smog or emissions
                      > tests
                      > > here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
                      > >  
                      > > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot,
                      > and
                      > > may be unrelated....
                      > > When I got the car, even when the other lights
                      > weren't
                      > > on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and
                      > the
                      > > cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer
                      > circuit
                      > > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those
                      > two
                      > > problems went from constant to gone.
                      > >  
                      > > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't
                      > find any
                      > > info on it other than "Trac ECU".
                      > > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy
                      > days...   :)
                      > >
                      > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having
                      > to
                      > > look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem
                      > to
                      > > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are
                      > different
                      > > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just
                      > press
                      > > the trac off button when I want to play...
                      > >  
                      > > iirc:
                      > > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
                      > > Code 71 EGR Malfunction
                      > > Code 89 TRAC ECU
                      > >
                      > > These are not random old codes from
                      > different/old/unrelated
                      > > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from
                      > none
                      > > stored to all three together every time this happens.
                      >
                      > >  
                      > > The cruise still works even while these codes and
                      > lights
                      > > are actively showing up.
                      > >  
                      > > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot
                      > days
                      > > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely
                      > to
                      > > trigger it.
                      > >  
                      > > I don't get what these three things have in common.
                      > >  
                      > > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
                      > >  
                      > > Thanks in advance!
                      > >  
                      > >
                      > > Thomas
                      > > myothersupra
                      > > --------------
                      > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                      > > 93TT Auto MkIV
                      > > 92T Auto MkIII
                      > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                      > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                      > > 81 5-Speed MkI
                      > > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > _______________________________________________
                      > > Mkiv mailing list
                      > > Mkiv@...
                      > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _______________________________________________
                      > Mkiv mailing list
                      > Mkiv@...
                      > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _______________________________________________
                      > Mkiv mailing list
                      > Mkiv@...
                      > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                      >


                      _______________________________________________
                      Mkiv mailing list
                      Mkiv@...
                      http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv




                      _______________________________________________
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                      Mkiv@...
                      http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                    • lance
                      DTC 42 - All conditions below are detected continuously for 8 sec. or more. (a) No. 1 vehicle speed signal: 0 km/h (mph). (b) Engine speed: 3,000 rpm or more.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 17, 2009
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                        DTC 42 - All conditions below are detected continuously for 8 sec. or more.
                        (a) No. 1 vehicle speed signal: 0 km/h (mph).
                        (b) Engine speed: 3,000 rpm or more.
                        (c) Park/neutral position switch: OFF
                        (d) Stop Light switch: OFF

                        DTC 71 - EGR gas temp. is 70C (158F) or below for 1 ~ 4 min. under
                        conditions (a) and (b) (2 trip detection logic)
                        (a) Engine Coolant temp.: 63C (145F) or more.
                        (b) EGR operation possible (Ex. AIT in 3rd speed (5th for MlT),
                        A/C ON, 60 mph (96 km/h), Flat road).

                        DTC 89 - All conditions below are detected 5 secs. or more.
                        (a) No. 1 vehicle speed sensor: 9 km/h (5.6 mph) or
                        more
                        (b) Mirror check of TRAC ECU input signal is abnormal.
                        (c) TRAC ECU input signal does not inform to ECM.
                        (d) TRAC ECU input signal order is abnormal.

                        Have you checked the TRAC DTCs when this happens?

                        The only thing all these codes have in common is the ECM and the wiring
                        harness. Have you tried swapping the ECM? I did have a pin contact issue
                        with my car at the ECM. It generated multiple codes in the ECM and TRAC. I
                        looked at the wiring diagram and there is nothing common to these three
                        pieces in the wiring besides the normal "wires get bundled" issues.

                        Lance
                        '93TT 6 Speed Coupe

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: mkiv-bounces@... [mailto:mkiv-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
                        Thomas Bradley
                        Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:54 PM
                        To: The MKIV.com National Mailing List
                        Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...
                        wth???

                        Hey John,
                         
                        Totally O.T. question...
                        Were you at TX2K9 back in March?
                         
                        This car has had issues with the EGR since before I bought it although
                        they're much better now that it doesn't have completely fubar smoking twins
                        on it anymore.  The EGR parts are still bolted to the head but the vacuum
                        lines are all disconnected and the sensor connector's been resistor'd which
                        helped immensely but didn't solve it.
                         
                        I'm wondering if all the crap which included both oil and coolant that was
                        getting past the bad turbo's shaft seal into both the intake and the exhaust
                        has just clogged up the EGR system and coated and upset its' temp sensor. 
                        I've put close to 7k miles on it since the fubar factory turbos were
                        replaced and it doesn't smoke at all anymore so I'm not sure...
                         
                        I'm not having any issues with the manu button and indicator other than once
                        the three codes are tripped including the 89, the manu and trac off buttons
                        don't change the state of their indicator lamps 'till the codes decide to
                        clear or I reset the ecu.

                        Thomas

                        --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb <johnacribb@...> wrote:
                        From: John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                        Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...
                        wth???
                        To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                        Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 8:43 AM

                        Thomas, I didn't have the MIL from the EGR (71) until after I put the EGR
                        bypass plate in, and then it only occurred infrequently, in hot weather, and
                        only when cruising between 30 & 50 MPH. I've disabled the rest of the EGR,
                        put the resistor in, replaced the resistor twice, cut the harness and
                        soldered the resistor in, etc. but no joy.

                        The other problems that you're describing, (TRAC Off, Manu, Cruise) I had
                        when I first purchased my car, but they all were sorted when I resoldered
                        all the points in my instrument cluster.

                        My '94 is now owned & driven by my son, but it's still tripping the 71 MIL
                        occasionally, so I'm still keen to find a solution.

                        John
                        '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop


                        --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

                        > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... 
                        wth???
                        > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                        > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 5:17 AM
                        > Hey John,
                        > Sounds like your 94TT auto had the same issue I've got with
                        > this 93TT auto (Code 71) and that you did the same things to
                        > try and solve it, which helped some but didn't solve it...
                        >  
                        > Anyone have any insight into what we're missing about this
                        > issue?
                        >  
                        > Already did that tech tip (both sides) shortly after I
                        > bought the car.  I'm very familiar with it. 
                        > It didn't solve the problems, just made them apparent as
                        > most of the warning lamps in the left and right
                        > warning pods and instrument cluster itself didn't work
                        > when I bought the car...  no suprise there with 120k miles
                        > on a bone stock TT Supra...
                        >  
                        > The odo resolder fixed the cruise completely and helped the
                        > code 42 go from constant to only showing up when the other
                        > 2 codes show up, 42, 71, 89, all simultaneously.
                        >  
                        > w.t.h...
                        >  
                        > Thomas
                        >  
                        > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > From: John Cribb <johnacribb@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on
                        > hot days... wth???
                        > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                        > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 12:57 AM
                        >
                        > Thomas you might still have a cold solder joint problem in
                        > the instrument cluster. If I were you, I would resolder all
                        > the joints in the cluster, not just the odo pod.
                        http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/trac_off_mil_odo/index.html
                        >
                        > Also I'm not clear if the problems are occurring with your
                        > '93 A/T or your '98 6spd? My '94 with A/T used to still trip
                        > a MIL occasionally due to the EGR, and I never did find that
                        > problem. I disconnected the EGR, put the bypass resistor in,
                        > etc. but no joy.
                        >
                        > John
                        > '97 RSP 6spd APU hardtop
                        >
                        >
                        > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                        > > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on
                        > hot days...  wth???
                        > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                        > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:42 AM
                        > > Hi all,
                        > > Sorry for the length in advance!
                        > >  
                        > > I could really use some help from the MkIV tech
                        > guru's
                        > > around here, please.  :)
                        > >  
                        > > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I
                        > bought
                        > > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot
                        > but I
                        > > can't seem to solve it completely..
                        > >  
                        > > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I
                        > can't
                        > > find much info on code 71 or 89.
                        > >  
                        > > I've done a few things and now it only happens on
                        > really
                        > > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50
                        > miles
                        > > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on,
                        > but it
                        > > happens without the a/c too and I don't know what
                        > else to
                        > > do to try and solve it...
                        > >  
                        > > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!  all
                        > three
                        > > simultaneously every time...
                        > > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a
                        > week,
                        > > especially in mid summer.
                        > >  
                        > > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to
                        > make
                        > > any difference.
                        > >  
                        > > I'll be driving along for a while then all of a
                        > sudden
                        > > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing,
                        > followed by
                        > > C.E.L. all within about a second. 
                        > > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or
                        > > parking the car for a while doesn't make any
                        > difference. 
                        > >
                        > > They come back on with the key and stick around a
                        > while.
                        > > If I keep driving for a while longer they will
                        > eventually
                        > > all go out one by one within a second of each other
                        > again
                        > > and stay gone for a long while.  It's rare to see
                        > them come
                        > > and go twice on the same drive.  
                        > >  
                        > > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them
                        > temporarily
                        > > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if
                        > they
                        > > were active when the fuse was removed.
                        > >  
                        > > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot
                        > but
                        > > didn't solve it...
                        > > This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost
                        > > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor
                        > plug is
                        > > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in
                        > the
                        > > harness connector and the vacuum lines were
                        > re-routed/capped
                        > > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but
                        > didn't
                        > > solve it completely.  We don't have smog or emissions
                        > tests
                        > > here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
                        > >  
                        > > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot,
                        > and
                        > > may be unrelated....
                        > > When I got the car, even when the other lights
                        > weren't
                        > > on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and
                        > the
                        > > cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer
                        > circuit
                        > > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those
                        > two
                        > > problems went from constant to gone.
                        > >  
                        > > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't
                        > find any
                        > > info on it other than "Trac ECU".
                        > > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy
                        > days...   :)
                        > >
                        > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having
                        > to
                        > > look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem
                        > to
                        > > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are
                        > different
                        > > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just
                        > press
                        > > the trac off button when I want to play...
                        > >  
                        > > iirc:
                        > > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
                        > > Code 71 EGR Malfunction
                        > > Code 89 TRAC ECU
                        > >
                        > > These are not random old codes from
                        > different/old/unrelated
                        > > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from
                        > none
                        > > stored to all three together every time this happens.
                        >
                        > >  
                        > > The cruise still works even while these codes and
                        > lights
                        > > are actively showing up.
                        > >  
                        > > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot
                        > days
                        > > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely
                        > to
                        > > trigger it.
                        > >  
                        > > I don't get what these three things have in common.
                        > >  
                        > > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
                        > >  
                        > > Thanks in advance!
                        > >  
                        > >
                        > > Thomas
                        > > myothersupra
                        > > --------------
                        > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                        > > 93TT Auto MkIV
                        > > 92T Auto MkIII
                        > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                        > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                        > > 81 5-Speed MkI
                        > > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > _______________________________________________
                        > > Mkiv mailing list
                        > > Mkiv@...
                        > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _______________________________________________
                        > Mkiv mailing list
                        > Mkiv@...
                        > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _______________________________________________
                        > Mkiv mailing list
                        > Mkiv@...
                        > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                        >


                        _______________________________________________
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                        http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv




                        _______________________________________________
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                        _______________________________________________
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                      • lance
                        Sorry, but you re dead wrong about the gearbox model. Direct from the New Car Features: A340E AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION  DESCRIPTION Based on the previous
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 17, 2009
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                        • 0 Attachment
                          Sorry, but you're dead wrong about the gearbox model. Direct from the New
                          Car Features:

                          A340E AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
                           DESCRIPTION
                          Based on the previous model’s A340E automatic transmission, 2 types of A340E
                          automatic transmissions have been
                          perfectly matched to the new 2JZ–GE and 2JZ–GTE engine models. These
                          transmissions offer a highly responsive
                          and smooth driving experience worthy of a sports car.

                          Toyota has never made an E series gearbox for any passenger car.

                          Lance
                          '93TT 6 Speed Coupe

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: mkiv-bounces@... [mailto:mkiv-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
                          Thomas Bradley
                          Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:55 AM
                          To: The MKIV.com National Mailing List
                          Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue

                          Hey dude,
                          Something you should know...
                          Some dealers say yes and sell just the two contacts separately from the
                          starter (with hardware iirc) for really cheap (like $15-$25ish for both),
                          but some dealers totally insist that they're not available separately and
                          will try to make you buy the whole starter which besides being totally
                          unnecessary is obviously a LOT more expensive. 
                          If you can't find them at your local Toyota dealers' parts department and/or
                          they want far too much for them, then just call Jeff Watson at Champion
                          Toyota or Curt Aigner at Elmhurst Toyota and they'll get you what you need
                          at a fair price.
                           
                          I've purchased and installed the starter contacts for my 87 MkIII Supra and
                          several friends' MkIII starters over the past 10 years, I've also replaced
                          them in a couple of friends' higher mileage MkIV's since 2004, and I just
                          bought a set from Jeff at Champion Toyota back in March of this year for my
                          93TT so I know they can still be had separately from some Toyota dealers.

                          Also, unless your TT is a conversion, it's the E340i not the A340E which the
                          MkIII automatic Supras and I think certain years of the automatic MkII's
                          also have. 
                          There are more control/shifting solenoids and more "intelligent" electronics
                          in the MkIV automatic than the A340E has and although they're probably very
                          similar they're certainly not readily interchangeable under normal
                          circumstances and I actually prefer the behavior of the A340E better, stock
                          for stock...  Although a bit more sloppy, the A340E was far more predictable
                          and much easier to manipulate with different gas pedal movements, especially
                          when going from cruising to WOT, and it doesn't have or need the "kick down
                          switch" under the gas pedal like the MkIV's E340i has, plus I really
                          liked the MkII/III's Norm/Pwr mode switch instead of letting the
                          MkIV's "intelligent" tranny computer try to guess what I really want all the
                          time...

                          But anyway...  :)
                           
                          Later dude,
                           
                           
                          Thomas
                          myothersupra
                          --------------
                          98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                          93TT Auto MkIV
                          92T Auto MkIII
                          88 5-Speed MkIII
                          84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                          81 5-Speed MkI
                          01 ZRX-1200R

                          --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...> wrote:


                          From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
                          Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
                          To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                          Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:46 PM


                          Thanks. I'll check and see if Toyco
                          sells the solenoid contacts separately.

                          Marlon
                          '94 Supra TT A340E
                          '90 Celica GT 5spd


                          --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

                          > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
                          > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                          > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:02 PM
                          > Hey dude,
                          > Just a thought...
                          > After you disconnect that starter power wire, if you can
                          > also remove the 2 bolts that hold the starter on the car
                          > yourself then you should also be able to replace the
                          > solenoid contacts just as easily rather than having it done
                          > by someone else. 
                          >  
                          >
                          > Thomas
                          > myothersupra
                          > --------------
                          > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                          > 93TT Auto MkIV
                          > 92T Auto MkIII
                          > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                          > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                          > 81 5-Speed MkI
                          > 01 ZRX-1200R
                          >
                          > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
                          > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                          > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:26 AM
                          >
                          >
                          > Thomas,
                          >
                          > Great info. Looks like I better be prepared to
                          > have the starter rebuilt if the contacts inside
                          > the starter soleniods are being worn down.
                          >
                          > The starter maybe be heading towards this issue
                          > from a thread way back in 10/06.
                          > http://mkiv.com/pipermail/mkiv/Week-of-Mon-20061002/038753.html
                          >
                          > Marlon
                          >
                          >
                          > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                          > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
                          > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                          > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:35 AM
                          > > Hey Marlon,
                          > > The rust was probably the culpret in your case, but
                          > > the contacts inside the starter soleniod could also
                          > be worn
                          > > down and torquing on the nut to remove and install it
                          > may
                          > > have shifted that contact's position slightly and
                          > made
                          > > enough of a connection in the solenoid to start the
                          > car
                          > > again.
                          > > The stud that the nut and wire go onto is the shaft of
                          > one
                          > > of the two contacts within the soleniod itself that
                          > feeds
                          > > power to the starter motor when the solenoid's
                          > plunger is
                          > > powered and engaged by the starter relay.
                          > > Those "starter contacts" are copper iirc and slowly
                          > over
                          > > time the copper is burned away by the current's
                          > arc'ing as
                          > > the soleniod's plunger engages and they get thinner
                          > and
                          > > thinner 'till there's so little left that it can't
                          > pass
                          > > enough current at random or in some cases when
                          > they're
                          > > totally eaten away  it can't make the connection at
                          > > all anymore even though the the solenoid plunger is
                          > being
                          > > properly engaged.
                          > >  
                          > > I've also had an experience on my 93TT Automatic
                          > MkIV
                          > > Supra where the starter wire bolt on a cheap set
                          > > of lead aftermarket battery terminals (came on with
                          > the
                          > > car when I bought it, damit) had backed out ever so
                          > > slightly so the fusebox had full power, the
                          > electrical
                          > > system was funrctioning properly, and the solenoid
                          > engaged
                          > > properly but the starter didn't operate.  I closed
                          > the
                          > > hood, tried turning the key again, and the car
                          > started once
                          > > on the first try, then didn't start the next time I
                          > turned
                          > > the key.  I assumed "starter contacts" with 125k
                          > miles on
                          > > the odometer (fairly common MkIII Supra issue at
                          > around
                          > > that mileage) but then I closed the hood again a
                          > coulpe of
                          > > times as an experiment and finally the car started
                          > again. 
                          > > So I tried wiggling the battery terminals (again) and
                          > they
                          > > were completely snug but the starter wire happened to
                          > move
                          > > beneath its' terminal bolt with a moderate amount of
                          > force
                          > > by hand then the car started every time
                          > >  I turned the key after that so I tightened the bolt
                          > on
                          > > that terminal and it's been fine since.
                          > >
                          > >  
                          > > Thomas
                          > > myothersupra
                          > > --------------
                          > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                          > > 93TT Auto MkIV
                          > > 92T Auto MkIII
                          > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                          > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                          > > 81 5-Speed MkI
                          > > 01 E-Shift IS300
                          > > 01 ZRX-1200R
                          > >  
                          > >
                          > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > From: Marlon S <jza80_gte@...>
                          > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
                          > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                          > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 12:49 AM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Pretty much. The only things I touched during the
                          > trouble
                          > > shooting were
                          > > the relays/fuses, starter wire and nut. The rust on
                          > the
                          > > starter wire
                          > > nut was on outside and the inside threads were clean.
                          > I've
                          > > experienced a
                          > > similar electrical contact issue with my beater Celica
                          > with
                          > > the battery posts. Corrosion(white powdery substance)
                          > builds
                          > > up between the terminal
                          > > post the battery wires and the Celica would not
                          > > start(crank) until the
                          > > battery posts were cleaned.
                          > >
                          > > I'm wondering if over time something just slowly
                          > builds up
                          > > on the starter
                          > > wire contact. The car has 115K miles and it stopped
                          > being a
                          > > daily driver
                          > > since 95K miles.
                          > >
                          > > Marlon
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- On Sun, 9/6/09, David Engel <dengel1012@...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > From: David Engel <dengel1012@...>
                          > > > Subject: Re: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting
                          > issue
                          > > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                          > > > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:27 PM
                          > > > You mean besides the rust/corrosion
                          > > > you saw?  That was it.
                          > > >
                          > > > David
                          > > >
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: "Marlon S" <jza80_gte@...>
                          > > > To: <mkiv@...>
                          > > > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:43 PM
                          > > > Subject: [mkiv] trouble shooting starting issue
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > >I just finished trouble shooting a starting
                          > issue
                          > > with
                          > > > the Supra.
                          > > > > The issue I had with the car was the
                          > starter
                          > > would not
                          > > > crank the engine.
                          > > > > All I heard was a click when the key was
                          > turned
                          > > to
                          > > > START.
                          > > > > Battery measured a good 12.5V across the
                          > > terminal
                          > > > posts. Followed the
                          > > > > FSM procedure for trouble shooting the
                          > starting
                          > > > circuit. Starter relay,
                          > > > > check OK and no blown fuses. Followed
                          > owners
                          > > manual to
                          > > > disengage the
                          > > > > ignition kill if it did engage.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Went underneath the car and I was going to
                          > remove
                          > > the
                          > > > atarter as the next
                          > > > > step. However, I noticed that the nut for
                          > the
                          > > starter
                          > > > wire was covered
                          > > > > in rust(car originally from the midwest). I
                          > > decided to
                          > > > use battery cleaner
                          > > > > along with a wire brush on the nut, the
                          > starter
                          > > wire
                          > > > and starter post
                          > > > > because the contacts looked dull. After
                          > fastening
                          > > the
                          > > > starter wire back
                          > > > > on, I was taken by complete surprise because
                          > the
                          > > car
                          > > > started!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I disconnected the - battery cable again to
                          > do a
                          > > > little more work with
                          > > > > starter wire contacts. Went to local
                          > hardware
                          > > store to
                          > > > replace the
                          > > > > rusted started wire nut(M8 x 1.25, flanged)
                          > and
                          > > sanded
                          > > > down the
                          > > > > starter wire contacts. Dabbed the contacts
                          > with
                          > > > anti-seize and buttoned
                          > > > > everything back up.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The only question I have for the list is
                          > what
                          > > formed
                          > > > between the contacts?
                          > > > > The starter wire nut wasn't loose since it
                          > took
                          > > some
                          > > > effort to loosen it.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Marlon
                          > > > > '94 Supra TT A340E
                          > > > > '90 Celica GT 5spd
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > > > > Mkiv mailing list
                          > > > > Mkiv@...
                          > > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > _______________________________________________
                          > > > Mkiv mailing list
                          > > > Mkiv@...
                          > > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >      
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > _______________________________________________
                          > > Mkiv mailing list
                          > > Mkiv@...
                          > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > _______________________________________________
                          > > Mkiv mailing list
                          > > Mkiv@...
                          > > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >      
                          >
                          >
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > Mkiv mailing list
                          > Mkiv@...
                          > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > Mkiv mailing list
                          > Mkiv@...
                          > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                          >


                               


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                        • Thomas Bradley
                          Hey Lance, Thanks for taking the time to check on these codes so thoroughly for me! I definitely appreciate the help!   No I haven t tried to check Trac
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 18, 2009
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                            Hey Lance,
                            Thanks for taking the time to check on these codes so thoroughly for me!
                            I definitely appreciate the help!
                             
                            No I haven't tried to check Trac DTC's before. 
                            I honesltly didn't realize they'd be separate since I got those three unrelated codes all from jumpering the main diag terminal.  I'll have to check on which pins will give me the trac dtc's and see what it says... I haven't reset anything since the last time these codes tripped the warning lights so we'll see what the Trac system thinks next...
                             
                            It does seem like a harness or ecm issue since they all come and go together.
                            I don't have a spare ecm to try.  I assume so since they're both obd1 but would rather ask to be sure...  Will the 95TT Auto's ecm work as a valid substitute in this 93TT Auto?  A buddy "might" let me swap ecu's with him for a few days if so.  Everyone else I know around here has 6-Speeds.
                            I'm thinking one code is really being triggered and the other two are possibly wiring or ecu phantoms, but it's just a guess at this point.
                             
                            Thanks again for the help!

                            Thomas
                            myothersupra
                            --------------
                            98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                            93TT Auto MkIV
                            92T Auto MkIII
                            88 5-Speed MkIII
                            84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                            81 5-Speed MkI
                            01 E-Shift IS300
                            01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R

                            --- On Thu, 9/17/09, lance <jza80-alfvza@...> wrote:


                            From: lance <jza80-alfvza@...>
                            Subject: RE: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth???
                            To: "'The MKIV.com National Mailing List'" <mkiv@...>
                            Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:57 AM


                            DTC 42 - All conditions below are detected continuously for 8 sec. or more.
                            (a) No. 1 vehicle speed signal: 0 km/h (mph).
                            (b) Engine speed: 3,000 rpm or more.
                            (c) Park/neutral position switch: OFF
                            (d) Stop Light switch: OFF

                            DTC 71 - EGR gas temp. is 70C (158F) or below for 1 ~ 4 min. under
                            conditions (a) and (b) (2 trip detection logic)
                            (a) Engine Coolant temp.: 63C (145F) or more.
                            (b) EGR operation possible (Ex. AIT in 3rd speed (5th for MlT),
                            A/C ON, 60 mph (96 km/h), Flat road).

                            DTC 89 - All conditions below are detected 5 secs. or more.
                            (a) No. 1 vehicle speed sensor: 9 km/h (5.6 mph) or
                            more
                            (b) Mirror check of TRAC ECU input signal is abnormal.
                            (c) TRAC ECU input signal does not inform to ECM.
                            (d) TRAC ECU input signal order is abnormal.

                            Have you checked the TRAC DTCs when this happens?

                            The only thing all these codes have in common is the ECM and the wiring
                            harness.  Have you tried swapping the ECM?  I did have a pin contact issue
                            with my car at the ECM.  It generated multiple codes in the ECM and TRAC.  I
                            looked at the wiring diagram and there is nothing common to these three
                            pieces in the wiring besides the normal "wires get bundled" issues.

                            Lance
                            '93TT 6 Speed Coupe



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                          • Marlon S
                            Thomas, I ve experienced Codes 42 and 71 but on separate occasion. Code 42. Tried the mkiv.com tech article for the odometer cold solder issue but to no avail.
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 19, 2009
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                              Thomas,

                              I've experienced Codes 42 and 71 but on separate occasion.

                              Code 42. Tried the mkiv.com tech article for the odometer cold solder
                              issue but to no avail. I didn't want to do the wire harness hack method
                              so ordered a new odo and it fixed my issue with code 42.

                              Code 71. Dealer cleaned out the EGR piping but it came back about a week
                              later. For my case it turned out to be the EGR modulator. The EGR modulator
                              has a filter and it gets clogged. Do the FSM procedure to verify a clogged
                              EGR modulator. Dealer wouldn't sell the filter separately. A new one if I
                              remember correctly is $60.

                              Marlon
                              '94 Supra TT A340E
                              '90 Celica GT 5spd


                              --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:

                              > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                              > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days... wth???
                              > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                              > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 5:42 AM
                              > Hi all,
                              > Sorry for the length in advance!
                              >  
                              > I could really use some help from the MkIV tech guru's
                              > around here, please.  :)
                              >  
                              > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought
                              > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I
                              > can't seem to solve it completely..
                              >  
                              > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't
                              > find much info on code 71 or 89.
                              >  
                              > I've done a few things and now it only happens on really
                              > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles
                              > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but it
                              > happens without the a/c too and I don't know what else to
                              > do to try and solve it...
                              >  
                              > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM!  all three
                              > simultaneously every time...
                              > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week,
                              > especially in mid summer.
                              >  
                              > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make
                              > any difference.
                              >  
                              > I'll be driving along for a while then all of a sudden
                              > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by
                              > C.E.L. all within about a second. 
                              > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or
                              > parking the car for a while doesn't make any difference. 
                              >
                              > They come back on with the key and stick around a while.
                              > If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually
                              > all go out one by one within a second of each other again
                              > and stay gone for a long while.  It's rare to see them come
                              > and go twice on the same drive.  
                              >  
                              > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily
                              > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if they
                              > were active when the fuse was removed.
                              >  
                              > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but
                              > didn't solve it...
                              > This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost
                              > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug is
                              > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the
                              > harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped
                              > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't
                              > solve it completely.  We don't have smog or emissions tests
                              > here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
                              >  
                              > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and
                              > may be unrelated....
                              > When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't
                              > on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the
                              > cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer circuit
                              > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two
                              > problems went from constant to gone.
                              >  
                              > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any
                              > info on it other than "Trac ECU".
                              > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days...   :)
                              >
                              > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to
                              > look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem to
                              > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different
                              > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press
                              > the trac off button when I want to play...
                              >  
                              > iirc:
                              > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
                              > Code 71 EGR Malfunction
                              > Code 89 TRAC ECU
                              >
                              > These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated
                              > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none
                              > stored to all three together every time this happens.
                              >  
                              > The cruise still works even while these codes and lights
                              > are actively showing up.
                              >  
                              > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days
                              > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to
                              > trigger it.
                              >  
                              > I don't get what these three things have in common.
                              >  
                              > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
                              >  
                              > Thanks in advance!
                              >  
                              >
                              > Thomas
                              > myothersupra
                              > --------------
                              > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                              > 93TT Auto MkIV
                              > 92T Auto MkIII
                              > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                              > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                              > 81 5-Speed MkI
                              > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Mkiv mailing list
                              > Mkiv@...
                              > http://www.mkiv.com/mailman/listinfo/mkiv
                              >





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                            • Bill Lawry
                              If the filter can be had separately you can probably get it through Jeff Watson at Champion in TX. ... _______________________________________________ Mkiv
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 19, 2009
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                                If the filter can be had separately you can probably get it through Jeff
                                Watson at Champion in TX.



                                On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Marlon S <jza80_gte@...> wrote:

                                > Thomas,
                                >
                                > I've experienced Codes 42 and 71 but on separate occasion.
                                >
                                > Code 42. Tried the mkiv.com tech article for the odometer cold solder
                                > issue but to no avail. I didn't want to do the wire harness hack method
                                > so ordered a new odo and it fixed my issue with code 42.
                                >
                                > Code 71. Dealer cleaned out the EGR piping but it came back about a week
                                > later. For my case it turned out to be the EGR modulator. The EGR modulator
                                > has a filter and it gets clogged. Do the FSM procedure to verify a clogged
                                > EGR modulator. Dealer wouldn't sell the filter separately. A new one if I
                                > remember correctly is $60.
                                >
                                > Marlon
                                > '94 Supra TT A340E
                                > '90 Celica GT 5spd
                                >
                                >
                                > --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > From: Thomas Bradley <myothersupra@...>
                                > > Subject: [mkiv] Codes 42, 71, and 89 simultaneously on hot days...
                                > wth???
                                > > To: "The MKIV.com National Mailing List" <mkiv@...>
                                > > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 5:42 AM
                                > > Hi all,
                                > > Sorry for the length in advance!
                                > >
                                > > I could really use some help from the MkIV tech guru's
                                > > around here, please. :)
                                > >
                                > > I've got an issue that used to be constant when I bought
                                > > this car and a few things I've done have helped a lot but I
                                > > can't seem to solve it completely..
                                > >
                                > > I keep getting Code 42, 71, and 89 together and I can't
                                > > find much info on code 71 or 89.
                                > >
                                > > I've done a few things and now it only happens on really
                                > > hot days and/or warm days when I drive for like 30-50 miles
                                > > at highway speeds, especially with the a/c on, but it
                                > > happens without the a/c too and I don't know what else to
                                > > do to try and solve it...
                                > >
                                > > I clear all codes and drive a while, then BAM! all three
                                > > simultaneously every time...
                                > > Doesn't happen every day but probably 3-4 times a week,
                                > > especially in mid summer.
                                > >
                                > > Boosting hard or just cruising gently doesn't seem to make
                                > > any difference.
                                > >
                                > > I'll be driving along for a while then all of a sudden
                                > > Trac Off and MIL, followed by O/D Off flashing, followed by
                                > > C.E.L. all within about a second.
                                > > Pulling over and turning the key off then back on or
                                > > parking the car for a while doesn't make any difference.
                                > >
                                > > They come back on with the key and stick around a while.
                                > > If I keep driving for a while longer they will eventually
                                > > all go out one by one within a second of each other again
                                > > and stay gone for a long while. It's rare to see them come
                                > > and go twice on the same drive.
                                > >
                                > > I think pulling the efi fuse will clear them temporarily
                                > > but I don't recall if they stay gone long or not if they
                                > > were active when the fuse was removed.
                                > >
                                > > In hopes of solving the code 71, this helped a lot but
                                > > didn't solve it...
                                > > This trio of codes and lights used to happen almost
                                > > constantly when I got the car so now the EGR sensor plug is
                                > > disconnected and there's a 10k 1/2 Watt resistor in the
                                > > harness connector and the vacuum lines were re-routed/capped
                                > > to eliminate EGR, which seemed to help a LOT but didn't
                                > > solve it completely. We don't have smog or emissions tests
                                > > here so EGR isn't critical for this car.
                                > >
                                > > Should've solved the Code 42, definitely helped a lot, and
                                > > may be unrelated....
                                > > When I got the car, even when the other lights weren't
                                > > on the O/D Off light was almost always flashing and the
                                > > cruise rarely worked so I resoldered the odometer circuit
                                > > boards like I've done on other MkIV's before and those two
                                > > problems went from constant to gone.
                                > >
                                > > I have no idea what Code 89 is all about and can't find any
                                > > info on it other than "Trac ECU".
                                > > Trac seems to work fine, especially on rainy days... :)
                                > >
                                > > I'd love to pull a plug and disable it without having to
                                > > look at the trac light all the time but I can't seem to
                                > > figure out how on the 93 whose Trac ecu plugs are different
                                > > than my 98, especially with the automatic, so I just press
                                > > the trac off button when I want to play...
                                > >
                                > > iirc:
                                > > Code 42 Speed Sensor #1 signal
                                > > Code 71 EGR Malfunction
                                > > Code 89 TRAC ECU
                                > >
                                > > These are not random old codes from different/old/unrelated
                                > > issues, they all come on together. It always goes from none
                                > > stored to all three together every time this happens.
                                > >
                                > > The cruise still works even while these codes and lights
                                > > are actively showing up.
                                > >
                                > > It seems to be heat or engine bay temp related as hot days
                                > > and/or using a/c on really warm days is more likely to
                                > > trigger it.
                                > >
                                > > I don't get what these three things have in common.
                                > >
                                > > Any guidance would be greatly appreciated...
                                > >
                                > > Thanks in advance!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Thomas
                                > > myothersupra
                                > > --------------
                                > > 98TT 6-Speed MkIV
                                > > 93TT Auto MkIV
                                > > 92T Auto MkIII
                                > > 88 5-Speed MkIII
                                > > 84 5-Speed MkII P-Type
                                > > 81 5-Speed MkI
                                > > 01 5-Speed ZRX-1200R
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
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