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Re: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"

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  • JonquilJan
    Northern New York. Jan Learn something new every day As long as you are learning, you are living When you stop learning, you start dying ... From: Wes Jones
    Message 1 of 18 , May 31, 2008
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      Northern New York.

      Jan

      Learn something new every day
      As long as you are learning, you are living
      When you stop learning, you start dying
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Wes Jones <wes@...>
      To: <misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"


      > If we knew your approximate location someone may be local to you and be
      > willing to help. I would, if you were anywhere in the central WV area.
      > Be glad to help out.
      >
    • JonquilJan
      Probably within 10 miles. Jan Learn something new every day As long as you are learning, you are living When you stop learning, you start dying ... From: Donna
      Message 2 of 18 , May 31, 2008
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        Probably within 10 miles.

        Jan

        Learn something new every day
        As long as you are learning, you are living
        When you stop learning, you start dying
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Donna Miller
        To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:11 PM
        Subject: Re: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"


        Jan, I am in Northern NY. Outside of Watertown. Are we close?
      • JonquilJan
        It s the safety aspect that I am concerned about. I know always treat the gun as loaded and don;t p[oint at anything you don;t intend to shoot . But need
        Message 3 of 18 , May 31, 2008
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          It's the safety aspect that I am concerned about. I know 'always treat the gun as loaded' and 'don;t p[oint at anything you don;t intend to shoot'. But need hands on training and example. Also the care. I can remember my father cleaning his guns - a rifle and a shotgun. Both long traded away to a cousin in law/ Both also too long in the stock for me to handle. The shotgun was almost as tall as I am. (A Baker)

          But I would prefer a handgun. Also uncertain if I could qualify as I had some psyc treatment when I was battling cancer and the onset of disability and couldn't emotionally handle it. Over 30 years ago but it stays around. New York is tough about that.

          Jan

          Learn something new every day
          As long as you are learning, you are living
          When you stop learning, you start dying
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Buckshot
          To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"


          Jan,

          I thought I remembered that.

          I would suggest taking it in small chunks rather than trying to do it all in
          a day or two.

          Half hour or hour blocks, once or twice a week for a month or three with
          only a few of them needing visits to a range.
        • Dave Markowitz
          Jan, I ll second the recommendation for the AR15.com NY Hometown Forum. Also, please check out therallypoint.org, where I m an admin. The Rally Point s
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 1, 2008
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            Jan,

            I'll second the recommendation for the AR15.com NY Hometown Forum.
            Also, please check out therallypoint.org, where I'm an admin. The
            Rally Point's primary mission is to organize shooting events. If you
            put up a post in the NY/PA/NJ subforum we may have members near you.

            All list members are welcome to join TRP, of course.

            Finally, if you contact the NRA I'm sure they'll be able to point you
            towards someone who can help.

            --
            Dave Markowitz, KB3MNK
            davemarkowitz@...
            http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/
            http://survivalpreps.blogspot.com/


            On May 31, 2008, at 5:05 PM, JonquilJan wrote:

            > Northern New York state. There are gun clubs around - and a hunter
            > training course. But - being disabled, cannot stand too long and
            > because of my work schedule (work at home on the computer) have very
            > weird available time. (I am working when most people aren't and
            > vice versa). Am trying to get a young friend who hunts, trap shoots
            > and has experience with all sorts of guns to help - but he has
            > little available time as well.
            >
            > Jan
            >
            > Learn something new every day
            > As long as you are learning, you are living
            > When you stop learning, you start dying
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Michael Spivey
            > To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 4:25 PM
            > Subject: RE: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"
            >
            >
            > Where is your general area?? Mine is Las Vegas NM happy to help. I am
            > also a Gunsmith and a Comabt vet.
            >
            > Mike
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > JonquilJan
            > Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:46 PM
            > To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"
            >
            >
            >
            > I would really like to find someplace in my area - or perhaps
            > someone - who would teach me not only how to use a gun - handgun or
            > long gun
            > - but especially how to care for that weapon. I am 69 and disabled.
            > Live
            > alone - in the country. And would really, really like to have a
            > handgun
            > available in the house. But I am also smart enough not to try and
            > get one
            > until I have the knowledge about how to use and care for it.
            >
            > Not anti-gun - just cautious.
          • Wes Jones
            Jan: You should look into the whether your old treatment disqualifies you from owning a gun first and foremost. You have the basic idea of proper gun handling
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 1, 2008
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              Jan:

              You should look into the whether your old treatment disqualifies you from
              owning a gun first and foremost.

              You have the basic idea of proper gun handling already. Four rules cover
              everything. They are basically this:

              1. Every gun is always loaded. Never treat one otherwise.

              2. Know your target and what's behind it.

              3. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. Not
              even for a second when moving it around.

              4. Keep your finger off the trigger until the gun is pointed at the target
              and you're ready to release a shot.

              There isn't a lot that needs to be done as far as cleaning and mintainence
              on a modern pistol or rifle. I have guns that probably haven't been given
              a thorough cleaning for a few years. They get used fairly often too. All
              this hullabloo about cleaning guns is muchly a carryover from the days
              when corrosive primers were used in the ammunition. Yes, back then it was
              absolutely necessary to clean a gun after every use. If you didn't, rust
              would form in the barrel very quickly from the corrosive residue of the
              primers. But with modern ammo, there is no corrosion issue. Now, the
              only real reason to clean a gun is to make it look pretty and to keep gunk
              from gumming up the action. That can be accomplished with some basic
              spray cleaner made for the purpose and a small brush. It's not rocket
              science...just plain old common sense. Once in a while in a modern gun
              there will be a buildup of metal in the barrel from the bullet jackets on
              guns that get shot quite a lot. That's an issue you will very likely
              never have to deal with unless you intend to shoot a few hundred rounds in
              practice fairly often. Otherwise, just keep it loaded with good
              ammunition and practice a little once in a while so you're confident you
              can hit something if you need to.

              It'd be best if you had someone to sow you and reinforce the knowledge you
              already have. But, were I in your situation I would not let a lack of
              having someone available keep me from arming myself. You have already
              demonstrated by your thoughful posts that you could do it on your own
              safely. Have respect for the gun but don't fear it at all. It's your
              tool and what it does is what you want it to do and nothing else.

              Oh, and use hearing protection when practicing. If you get a gun also get
              some over the ears protection at the same time.


              Best, wes


              On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 00:28:23 -0400, JonquilJan <ward39@...> wrote:

              > It's the safety aspect that I am concerned about. I know 'always treat
              > the gun as loaded' and 'don;t p[oint at anything you don;t intend to
              > shoot'. But need hands on training and example. Also the care. I can
              > remember my father cleaning his guns - a rifle and a shotgun. Both long
              > traded away to a cousin in law/ Both also too long in the stock for me
              > to handle. The shotgun was almost as tall as I am. (A Baker)
              >
              > But I would prefer a handgun. Also uncertain if I could qualify as I
              > had some psyc treatment when I was battling cancer and the onset of
              > disability and couldn't emotionally handle it. Over 30 years ago but it
              > stays around. New York is tough about that.
              >
              > Jan


              --
              Listen to what they DO!
            • Buckshot
              Jan, I am glad you want to get some training. Cooper s Four Rules is the first place to go, and you basically have two of the 4 down all ready! Care for most
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 1, 2008
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                Jan,

                I am glad you want to get some training.

                Cooper's Four Rules is the first place to go, and you basically have two of
                the 4 down all ready!

                Care for most guns is NOT nearly what it once was, unless you are into
                surplus military stuff and still shooting corrosive ammo. Corrosive priming
                (ended by the early '50s in the US) and before mercuric priming (generally
                ended by WW I) were the two real problems that you had to watch the firearms
                for. This was where things like "never go to bed on an unlearned gun" came
                from.

                Now you only have to clean for function, reliability, accuracy and
                appearance, with appearance from rust generated by handling being probably
                the next big thing to watch for.

                I have an ankle that decided to pack it in today, barely walk even with my
                cane, but I will feel better in a couple of days and start pumping some data
                your way, most likely via this list.

                Buckshot

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "JonquilJan" <ward39@...>
                To: <misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:28 AM
                Subject: Re: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"


                > It's the safety aspect that I am concerned about. I know 'always treat
                > the gun as loaded' and 'don;t p[oint at anything you don;t intend to
                > shoot'. But need hands on training and example. Also the care. I can
                > remember my father cleaning his guns - a rifle and a shotgun. Both long
                > traded away to a cousin in law/ Both also too long in the stock for me to
                > handle. The shotgun was almost as tall as I am. (A Baker)
                >
                > But I would prefer a handgun. Also uncertain if I could qualify as I had
                > some psyc treatment when I was battling cancer and the onset of disability
                > and couldn't emotionally handle it. Over 30 years ago but it stays
                > around. New York is tough about that.
                >
                > Jan
                >
                > Learn something new every day
                > As long as you are learning, you are living
                > When you stop learning, you start dying
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Buckshot
                > To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:53 PM
                > Subject: Re: [MSM] Fwd: Preparation, Not "Fear"
                >
                >
                > Jan,
                >
                > I thought I remembered that.
                >
                > I would suggest taking it in small chunks rather than trying to do it all
                > in
                > a day or two.
                >
                > Half hour or hour blocks, once or twice a week for a month or three with
                > only a few of them needing visits to a range.
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > ************************************************************************
                >
                >
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                > http://www.forum.thesurvivalists.com
                >
                >
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              • Geoffrey ROBERTS
                ... , Wes Jones ... This ESPECIALLY includes one your mate just handed you saying, it s
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 1, 2008
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                  >>> On Monday, 2 June 2008 at 3:27 am, in message
                  <op.ub2z6ma4nd53gm@...>, "Wes Jones" <wes@...>
                  wrote:
                  > Jan:
                  >
                  > You should look into the whether your old treatment disqualifies you from
                  > owning a gun first and foremost.
                  >
                  > You have the basic idea of proper gun handling already. Four rules cover
                  > everything. They are basically this:

                  > 1. Every gun is always loaded. Never treat one otherwise.

                  This ESPECIALLY includes one your mate just handed you saying, 'it's not loaded'.

                  Clear the weapon - safety on, mag off, (check if rounds in mag!) tilt the ejection port down, cock and lock the breech open, (watch for a round to be ejected when you cock it!), visually inspect breech,
                  and chamber for rounds, remove if present, close/release bolt, safety off, point in a safe direction, squeeze trigger to dry fire, safety catch on,
                  mag on (if needed).
                  Some may object to the dry firing saying it beats up the hammer/firing pin, but that's how I was trained to clear.
                  On some weapons it may be possible to 'ease' the hammer down gently, quite easily, on others it may not be easy or possible.
                  Leaving it cocked, empty or loaded, is a Very Bad Idea. If you are concerned, carry a spare pin.

                  EVERY TIME - before you put it down, after you pick it up, before you hand it to someone, after someone hands it to you, after firing, before cleaning and
                  especially before you put it away.
                  Safe direction varies, on a range, the ONLY safe direction is downrange. Elsewhere, safe direction is generally (but not invariably) down at a 45 degree angle to the ground.

                  > 2. Know your target and what's behind it.

                  Absolutely essential, some rounds will go straight through a target and kill something you didn't even see.

                  > 3. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. Not
                  > even for a second when moving it around.

                  'Safe Direction' at all times unless you are going to shoot something.

                  > 4. Keep your finger off the trigger until the gun is pointed at the target
                  > and you're ready to release a shot.

                  If you follow the military approach there are several 'degrees of weapon readiness'.

                  I'm not sure of the US terms, so I'll use ours, but you may prefer to adopt the US ones.

                  UNLOADED - Weapon cleared, safety on, no magazine.
                  LOADED - Mag Inserted, weapon not cocked, safety on.
                  ACTION - Mag inserted, Weapon cocked (round in the breech), safety on.
                  INSTANT - Mag inserted, weapon cocked (round in breech), safety OFF.

                  In all these DOWR, you should have your finger lying ALONG the trigger guard.
                  ONLY when you are actually ready to fire, should you place your finger ON the trigger.

                  > Now, the
                  > only real reason to clean a gun is to make it look pretty and to keep gunk
                  > from gumming up the action. That can be accomplished with some basic
                  > spray cleaner made for the purpose and a small brush. It's not rocket
                  > science...just plain old common sense.

                  Depending on the gun, there is one other reason and that's to prevent corrosion.
                  This is particularly significant if the weapon has been exposed to rain or damp.
                  Some weapons are more prone than others, the military approach is that the weapon
                  is cleaned at least once a day, largely to ensure there is oil on the metal.

                  Be warned that many people are accidentally shot while cleaning weapons, make SURE you
                  carry out the full 'Safety Precaution' (ie clear the weapon as described above) EVERY SINGLE
                  time before you strip it to clean it.

                  Oh, you need to learn how to strip and reassemble the weapon. With some weapons this may be
                  very simple and obvious, others are more complex and you will need instruction or a manual/diagram
                  to learn how. It is strongly recommended that you adopt a consistent procedure to strip and reassemble to
                  prevent mis-assembly or damage.

                  > Once in a while in a modern gun
                  > there will be a buildup of metal in the barrel from the bullet jackets on
                  > guns that get shot quite a lot. That's an issue you will very likely
                  > never have to deal with unless you intend to shoot a few hundred rounds in
                  > practice fairly often.

                  You will also get carbon residue building up, in some weapons this can become a problem
                  and it can be hard to remove if left too long.

                  >Otherwise, just keep it loaded with good
                  > ammunition and practice a little once in a while so you're confident you
                  > can hit something if you need to.

                  > It'd be best if you had someone to sow you and reinforce the knowledge you
                  > already have. But, were I in your situation I would not let a lack of
                  > having someone available keep me from arming myself. You have already
                  > demonstrated by your thoughful posts that you could do it on your own
                  > safely. Have respect for the gun but don't fear it at all. It's your
                  > tool and what it does is what you want it to do and nothing else.

                  What Wes says is quite correct. Ideally get some instruction from someone you know
                  is competent and trustworthy, but if you follow the guidelines laid out here, a modicum
                  of common sense will ensure you are a danger only to what you intend to shoot.

                  > Oh, and use hearing protection when practicing. If you get a gun also get
                  > some over the ears protection at the same time.

                  Excellent advice, you WILL get a hearing loss if you shoot, particularly with large calibre,
                  over time, without it.

                  Geoff in Oz
                • maria_cristina1fr
                  Here is an idea that I m working on: Wood Gasifier......... help to fuel generators , cars , trucks etc... also good for fueling gas run utilities: stoves ,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 1, 2008
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                    Here is an idea that I'm working on:

                    Wood Gasifier......... help to fuel generators , cars , trucks etc...
                    also good for fueling gas run utilities: stoves , hot water units etc.

                    Oh and it is cheap, clean, ecofriendly. A real gem!

                    Cristina, down south
                    Temuco, Chile
                  • sandyloopfarm@aol.com
                    Christina, go join the woodgas or gasifier groups at Yahoo Groups. Tons of info in their files, along with folks doing it right now. Bob **************Get
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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                      Christina, go join the woodgas or gasifier groups at Yahoo Groups. Tons of
                      info in their files, along with folks doing it right now. Bob



                      **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
                      Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
                      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Brian Tychonski
                      While I personally prefer a semiauto, I also have paws for hands, very thick wrists, and good sized arms, as well as almost 40 years experience firing weapons.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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                        While I personally prefer a semiauto, I also have paws for hands, very thick wrists, and good sized arms, as well as almost 40 years experience firing weapons. With that being said, I still have three revolvers to supplement the semiautos in my collection.

                        Jan, I would recommend that you look at getting a midsized revolver in 357 Magnum. You don't have to load it with 357 magnum rounds, you can load it with a variety of 38 special loads that will be perfectly adequate at inside the house ranges. Let me explain my logic for this recommendation.

                        1. You indicated that you are not familiar with firearms operation. Revolvers are extremely easy to load, unload, and care for. Especially stainless steel ones like the Rossi 971, Taurus 605 (I have both of these and they work well),or any of a number of Taurus or Smith and Wesson models. The Taurus Tracker models are good, but I'd recommend finding a 6 shot model. I've had trouble using speed loaders on the larger cylinders. I'd recommend a four inch barrel for a general purpose length.

                        2. I recommend a medium frame because the size will help reduce the recoil without weighing too much to handle easily. As a female, you probably have small to medium sized hands which would make a large frame hard to hold, and a small frame is uncomfortable to fire in a more powerful caliber. I keep my Taurus 605 loaded with +P+ 38 Specials. While it may be able to handle full power 357 Magnum loads, I find them too uncomfortable to shoot. Besides, with its 2 1/2 inch barrel, the muzzle flash for the full power loads is rather spectacular. 2-3 ft flames from the barrel are unnerving no matter which side of the muzzle you are on.

                        3. Weak wristed firing can cause jams in semiautomatics. This is not a problem with revolvers. I do recommend doing some form of hand and wrist strengthening exercises just as a matter of course.

                        4. Most semiautomatics lack "second strike" capability. If a round fails to fire, you have to manipulate the slide to eject the shell and chamber a new one. While this can be done VERY quickly with practice, with a revolver you simply pull the trigger again.

                        5. Reliable revolvers can be purchased relatively inexpensively in relation to reliable semiautomatics. A reliable revolver can be purchased for under $350 NEW, and under $275 used. While a reliable semiautomatic can be purchased for that, there are few of them (Keltec, Taurus, Ruger or a Bersa) and the caliber choices would not be as versatile as a 357 revolver.

                        6. Spare magazines might be prohibitively expensive. I have 2 Sig Sauers and a S&W 1911 that refuse to feed from low cost aftermarket mags. Speed loaders for a revolver are under $10. There is also the issue of legality in some jurisdictions. High Capacity magazines are severely restricted in some areas. That has no effect on revolvers.

                        7. It is MUCH easier to determine if a revolver is unloaded. Simply open the cylinder and look. No shells, it's not loaded. Shells? Eject them and it's no longer loaded. As you can only load or unload it while it is uncocked, you don't have to worry about it being cocked while stored.

                        8. In a post SHTF scenario, revolvers keep the brass at your fingertips. You can reload the brass using a small Lee Hand Loader kit (under $25) and just buy primers, powder and bullets to supplement your ammo in lieu of buying nothing but preloaded ammo. It can save on money and storage space. The lee Hand Loader kits are small, require nothing but a plastic mallet, and best of all WORK. You might not be able to produce match quality ammo with them, but you can make perfectly good practice and small game hunting loads without any problem at all. They are darn near fool proof. 38 Specials are incredibly easy to load.

                        If you choose to go with a semiauto, I'd recommend that you look at something with a decocker. It allows you to store the pistol with a round in the chamber and the hammer down without risking an accidental discharge. Many manufacturers have this option available.

                        Just my two cents worth, YMMV

                        Brian


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