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RE: [MSM] Re: Gunn Control Issue now in the Media

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  • Pernkat
    One of the problems I have with new legislation is that we don t enforce the laws we already have. Before trying more stringent background checks or redoing
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 31, 2012
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      One of the problems I have with new legislation is that we don't enforce the
      laws we already have. Before trying more stringent background checks or
      redoing the assault ban law that didn't work (just a note as there were
      several attacks on schools and such during it's time as a law); why don't we
      try enforcing what we have. I've spent some time over the past couple of
      weeks asking law enforcement officials just what they do when they pick up a
      felon with a gun. If he's still on parole he's put back in for that
      violation, maybe, but other than taking away the gun that's it. He isn't
      charged with having a weapon illegally. If he isn't on parole they
      sometimes don't even take his gun away.

      So, convince me that these laws you want will actually keep guns out of the
      hands of the mentally ill and the criminals and I'll support their passage,
      but as long as that town in GA remains with almost no violent crime and all
      the households have guns it will be a very high standard I'm asking for.


      Pernkat



      On Behalf Of rockloper
      Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:26 AM
      Subject: [MSM] Re: Gunn Control Issue now in the Media

      What rights of yours are infringed on with stringent background checks as an
      example? That's exactly what needs to be addressed. Definitions of
      responsible people, what are reasonable arms to defend oneself, etc.

      And quite frankly they should be called the Bill of Privileges for Those
      Whom American Society Deems Worthy. You obviously prefer to cater to the
      irresponsible thus rewarding such behavior. If we treated the first ten
      amendments more like privileges that you earn it would lead to a more
      responsible society. It's like anything in life, it means more to a person
      to earn something rather then just handed to them.

      I strongly believe in my earned right to bear arms. I'm not sure it's
      possible to believe in self sufficiency and survivalism without having arms.
      BTW I don't intend to be moving anywhere.

      So I'm just curious. What basic human rights are being limited with the
      passage of stringent gun safety legislation? Let's face it the arms the
      founding fathers envisioned were single shot muskets not weapons of mass
      destruction. It's hypocritical of you to think the founding fathers
      wouldn't look upon our current situation with a totally different viewpoint.

      Rockloper
    • rockloper
      Wes the right has no rationale to ignore. R
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 31, 2012
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        Wes the right has no rationale to ignore.

        R

        --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Wes Jones <wes@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tom, that's something the left does well...is to try to define the
        > other side into a corner. But the honest truth is, the 2AM was
        > recognized in the BOR as important. Important enough they used the
        > strongest negative imperative available in legal language in an
        > attempt to keep government from doing what they had always done in
        > the past. That is, disarm a population or segment of a population to
        > render them defenseless from tyranny. Tyranny doesn't have to be
        > armed and violent either. Like the reasons for the RTKABA, there are
        > many and widely varied kinds. The RTKBA is for defense from tyranny
        > in government, defense of the state from invasions or rebellions
        > within, defense of self or others on a personal level, hunting for
        > food and fur or pleasure, target shooting for pleasure or to be
        > better able to do any or all of the previous. And others. They all
        > carry the same weight in general but on a personal level one can
        > stand to the forefront. Then because some people exercising their
        > rights under the RTKBA might be focused on one thing and others
        > another and still other groups also different facets of the same
        > basic right, the left attempts to divide and confuse. It's best to
        > ignore those because they aren't listening. They already know all
        > the points you can make and choose to ignore the rational while
        > making bizarre claims that are pure sophistry.
        >
        > Best, wes
        >
        >
        >
        > At 10:07 PM 12/28/2012, you wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >Erm...yeah. Because responsibility, like pornography, is so well defined.
        > >
        > >"Common sense...gun...regulations" - really? When did sense become
        > >common, and who gets to define who are the responsible people? And then
        > >define what arms they can bear, et cetera, all without infringing upon
        > >the right of the people to keep and bear arms?
        >
      • Michael
        I m done with your comments. Plonk Michael
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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          I'm done with your comments.

          Plonk

          Michael


          rockloper wrote:
          > Wes the right has no rationale to ignore.
          >
          > R
          >
          > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Wes Jones <wes@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Tom, that's something the left does well...is to try to define the
          >> other side into a corner. But the honest truth is, the 2AM was
          >> recognized in the BOR as important. Important enough they used the
          >> strongest negative imperative available in legal language in an
          >> attempt to keep government from doing what they had always done in
          >> the past. That is, disarm a population or segment of a population to
          >> render them defenseless from tyranny. Tyranny doesn't have to be
          >> armed and violent either. Like the reasons for the RTKABA, there are
          >> many and widely varied kinds. The RTKBA is for defense from tyranny
          >> in government, defense of the state from invasions or rebellions
          >> within, defense of self or others on a personal level, hunting for
          >> food and fur or pleasure, target shooting for pleasure or to be
          >> better able to do any or all of the previous. And others. They all
          >> carry the same weight in general but on a personal level one can
          >> stand to the forefront. Then because some people exercising their
          >> rights under the RTKBA might be focused on one thing and others
          >> another and still other groups also different facets of the same
          >> basic right, the left attempts to divide and confuse. It's best to
          >> ignore those because they aren't listening. They already know all
          >> the points you can make and choose to ignore the rational while
          >> making bizarre claims that are pure sophistry.
          >>
          >> Best, wes
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> At 10:07 PM 12/28/2012, you wrote:
          >>
          >>> Erm...yeah. Because responsibility, like pornography, is so well defined.
          >>>
          >>> "Common sense...gun...regulations" - really? When did sense become
          >>> common, and who gets to define who are the responsible people? And then
          >>> define what arms they can bear, et cetera, all without infringing upon
          >>> the right of the people to keep and bear arms?
          >>>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
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        • rockloper
          First of all I m not about to waste my time convincing you of anything. I ll gladly state my opinions as you have. We definitely should strictly enforce the
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 2, 2013
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            First of all I'm not about to waste my time convincing you of anything. I'll gladly state my opinions as you have. We definitely should strictly enforce the laws already on the books. I can't emphasize that enough. However what have we got to lose by the passage of stringent background checks, revisiting assault weapons bans for more practical definitions of assault weapons, the elimination of ridiculously high capacity magazines, and closing loopholes at gun shows? What have we got to lose?

            My son is a law enforcement officer so don't bother taking that route. That sure didn't help the mother of the Newton shooter to have guns in here house did it. As a matter of fact the likelihood of being shot goes up statistically for anyone with firearms in their house. Also keep in mind I WANT the right to own firearms, I just think some prudence should go with the privilege.

            Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer my first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is what are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?

            Rockloper

            --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, "Pernkat" <pernkat@...> wrote:
            >
            > One of the problems I have with new legislation is that we don't enforce the
            > laws we already have. Before trying more stringent background checks or
            > redoing the assault ban law that didn't work (just a note as there were
            > several attacks on schools and such during it's time as a law); why don't we
            > try enforcing what we have. I've spent some time over the past couple of
            > weeks asking law enforcement officials just what they do when they pick up a
            > felon with a gun. If he's still on parole he's put back in for that
            > violation, maybe, but other than taking away the gun that's it. He isn't
            > charged with having a weapon illegally. If he isn't on parole they
            > sometimes don't even take his gun away.
            >
            > So, convince me that these laws you want will actually keep guns out of the
            > hands of the mentally ill and the criminals and I'll support their passage,
            > but as long as that town in GA remains with almost no violent crime and all
            > the households have guns it will be a very high standard I'm asking for.
            >
            >
            > Pernkat
            >
            >
            >
            > On Behalf Of rockloper
            > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:26 AM
            > Subject: [MSM] Re: Gunn Control Issue now in the Media
            >
            > What rights of yours are infringed on with stringent background checks as an
            > example? That's exactly what needs to be addressed. Definitions of
            > responsible people, what are reasonable arms to defend oneself, etc.
            >
            > And quite frankly they should be called the Bill of Privileges for Those
            > Whom American Society Deems Worthy. You obviously prefer to cater to the
            > irresponsible thus rewarding such behavior. If we treated the first ten
            > amendments more like privileges that you earn it would lead to a more
            > responsible society. It's like anything in life, it means more to a person
            > to earn something rather then just handed to them.
            >
            > I strongly believe in my earned right to bear arms. I'm not sure it's
            > possible to believe in self sufficiency and survivalism without having arms.
            > BTW I don't intend to be moving anywhere.
            >
            > So I'm just curious. What basic human rights are being limited with the
            > passage of stringent gun safety legislation? Let's face it the arms the
            > founding fathers envisioned were single shot muskets not weapons of mass
            > destruction. It's hypocritical of you to think the founding fathers
            > wouldn't look upon our current situation with a totally different viewpoint.
            >
            > Rockloper
            >
          • rockloper
            I m crushed. LOL R
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 2, 2013
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              I'm crushed. LOL

              R

              --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Michael <mgilmet@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm done with your comments.
              >
              > Plonk
              >
              > Michael
            • Anna Ravenscroft
              ... first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is what are you
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 2, 2013
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                On Jan 2, 2013 5:26 PM, "rockloper" <rockloper@...> wrote:
                >

                >
                > Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer my
                first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when
                purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is what
                are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?
                >

                I was denied a concealed carry permit. After my roommate was kidnapped in
                front of our house and raped. In broad daylight. At the time, I had a top
                secret clearance in the Army reserves. I was told I had "insufficient
                cause" to be granted a CCP.

                If exercising a "right" is at the whim of some government functionary, it's
                a privilege. And the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights should never
                be allowed to be treated as privileges.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mister Fact
                From: Wes Jones To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [MSM] Re: Gunn Control
                Message 7 of 25 , Jan 3, 2013
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                  From: Wes Jones <wes@...>
                  To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 11:08 AM
                  Subject: RE: [MSM] Re: Gunn Control Issue now in the Media

                   
                  Agree 100% and will add...training isn't always
                  necessary. Lots of folk naturally handle
                  "situations" in stride...taking a look, assessing
                  what's happening and acting appropriately as the situation allows.

                  Best, wes

                  At 03:53 PM 12/23/2012, you wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >I believe that there were ~15 military people on leave in that theatre. You
                  >will never convince me that if even one of them had been armed it wouldn't
                  >have stopped the attack in its tracks. Sorry, I don't believe your
                  >contention is correct. Further, I will mention that many of those with a
                  >concealed carry are former military and/or former police. At least in my
                  >state they are and many of them know exactly what to do and would have done
                  >so had they been present. The belief that having armed protection is wrong
                  >is ludicrous when that is exactly how we protect our President and Congress
                  >and most CEOs.
                  >
                  >Pernkat
                  >
                  >On Behalf Of MichaelK
                  >Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:13 PM
                  >Subject: [MSM] Re: Gunn Control Issue now in the Media
                  >
                  I'm not interested in conjecturing about wether any ex military could have assessed the situation in that theatre in a mater of a few milliseconds and ended the shooting threat.
                   
                  I'de rather that guns be sold  to people who pass a mental test and backround check. I'de rather that machine guns, hand grenades, Claymore Mines and Howitzers not be available to the public. If the public needs them to defend themselves against a rogue government, we can all raid the nearest weapons armory and get them.
                   
                  >Anyone with a concealed weapon in that Colorado movie theatre would have
                  >been just as confused as to what was happening as were the hundreds who were
                  >there. By the time a conceraled weapon holder figured out what was happening
                  >and where the bullets were coming from- he would most likely would have been
                  >dead or injured and WORTHLESS in stopping the assault. No concealed weapons
                  >holder has had any civilian training to deal with what happened in Aurora,
                  >Co !
                  >
                  >Mike Corman
                  >
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • rockloper
                  What state did this occur in? This would be a far better society if we treated the BOR as privileges. R
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jan 3, 2013
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                    What state did this occur in? This would be a far better society if we treated the BOR as privileges.

                    R

                    --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
                    >
                    > On Jan 2, 2013 5:26 PM, "rockloper" wrote:
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer my
                    > first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when
                    > purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is what
                    > are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?
                    > >
                    >
                    > I was denied a concealed carry permit. After my roommate was kidnapped in
                    > front of our house and raped. In broad daylight. At the time, I had a top
                    > secret clearance in the Army reserves. I was told I had "insufficient
                    > cause" to be granted a CCP.
                    >
                    > If exercising a "right" is at the whim of some government functionary, it's
                    > a privilege. And the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights should never
                    > be allowed to be treated as privileges.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Anna Ravenscroft
                    We have a fundamental difference of views on the BoR. I have no interest in continuing this discussion with you. ... -- cordially, Anna [Non-text portions of
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jan 3, 2013
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                      We have a fundamental difference of views on the BoR. I have no interest in
                      continuing this discussion with you.

                      On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:11 AM, rockloper <rockloper@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > What state did this occur in? This would be a far better society if we
                      > treated the BOR as privileges.
                      >
                      > R
                      >
                      > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > On Jan 2, 2013 5:26 PM, "rockloper" wrote:
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer
                      > my
                      > > first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when
                      > > purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is
                      > what
                      > > are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > I was denied a concealed carry permit. After my roommate was kidnapped in
                      > > front of our house and raped. In broad daylight. At the time, I had a top
                      > > secret clearance in the Army reserves. I was told I had "insufficient
                      > > cause" to be granted a CCP.
                      > >
                      > > If exercising a "right" is at the whim of some government functionary,
                      > it's
                      > > a privilege. And the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights should never
                      > > be allowed to be treated as privileges.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      cordially,
                      Anna


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tom Visel
                      Gee, Rock, you ve got a lot of questions - and are awfully insistent about answers - for someone who won t consider what is being said to him. Suppose you
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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                        Gee, Rock, you've got a lot of questions - and are awfully insistent about
                        answers - for someone who won't consider what is being said to him. Suppose
                        you answer a couple:
                        1. What is your agenda?
                        1.5 How is this consistent with survivalism?
                        2. Why do you feel that your opinion is of sufficient weight to be laid
                        upon us all like law, when we would let you be?
                        3. Why are you afraid of a thing that can minimize threats to your life?
                        4. Who appointed you god, that our rights should be made privileges?
                        5. Do you have a "gun-free zone" sign up in your yard, or are you a
                        hypocrite?
                        6. What qualifies you to judge the worthiness of a person to have rights?
                        7. Don't you have a bridge to be under, waiting for some billy goats gruff?

                        You can give that last one a pass, but the others would lay to rest some
                        long-standing headscratching that happens every time one of your posts
                        shows up.

                        Cordially,
                        TomV


                        On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:11 PM, rockloper <rockloper@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > What state did this occur in? This would be a far better society if we
                        > treated the BOR as privileges.
                        >
                        > R
                        >
                        > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > On Jan 2, 2013 5:26 PM, "rockloper" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer
                        > my
                        > > first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when
                        > > purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is
                        > what
                        > > are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > I was denied a concealed carry permit. After my roommate was kidnapped in
                        > > front of our house and raped. In broad daylight. At the time, I had a top
                        > > secret clearance in the Army reserves. I was told I had "insufficient
                        > > cause" to be granted a CCP.
                        > >
                        > > If exercising a "right" is at the whim of some government functionary,
                        > it's
                        > > a privilege. And the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights should never
                        > > be allowed to be treated as privileges.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Cloud William
                        Go back into the archives and read all of Rockloper s consistently smarmy and antagonistic comments, and decide what his agenda is. Personally, I believe he is
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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                          Go back into the archives and read all of Rockloper's consistently smarmy and antagonistic comments, and decide what his agenda is. Personally, I believe he is an NWO infiltrator in the worst and selfish and controlling in the least.

                          I have been in the movement since the beginning and know the movements founders personally... and they are not arrogant jerks.

                          I expect that my comments are slightly less cordial than you are accustomed to, but "oh well !"




                          ________________________________
                          From: Tom Visel <five10man@...>
                          To: misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 8:34 AM
                          Subject: Re: [MSM] Re: Gunn Control Issue now in the Media


                           
                          Gee, Rock, you've got a lot of questions - and are awfully insistent about
                          answers - for someone who won't consider what is being said to him. Suppose
                          you answer a couple:
                          1. What is your agenda?
                          1.5 How is this consistent with survivalism?
                          2. Why do you feel that your opinion is of sufficient weight to be laid
                          upon us all like law, when we would let you be?
                          3. Why are you afraid of a thing that can minimize threats to your life?
                          4. Who appointed you god, that our rights should be made privileges?
                          5. Do you have a "gun-free zone" sign up in your yard, or are you a
                          hypocrite?
                          6. What qualifies you to judge the worthiness of a person to have rights?
                          7. Don't you have a bridge to be under, waiting for some billy goats gruff?

                          You can give that last one a pass, but the others would lay to rest some
                          long-standing headscratching that happens every time one of your posts
                          shows up.

                          Cordially,
                          TomV

                          On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:11 PM, rockloper rockloper@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > What state did this occur in? This would be a far better society if we
                          > treated the BOR as privileges.
                          >
                          > R
                          >
                          > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > On Jan 2, 2013 5:26 PM, "rockloper" wrote:
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer
                          > my
                          > > first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when
                          > > purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is
                          > what
                          > > are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > I was denied a concealed carry permit. After my roommate was kidnapped in
                          > > front of our house and raped. In broad daylight. At the time, I had a top
                          > > secret clearance in the Army reserves. I was told I had "insufficient
                          > > cause" to be granted a CCP.
                          > >
                          > > If exercising a "right" is at the whim of some government functionary,
                          > it's
                          > > a privilege. And the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights should never
                          > > be allowed to be treated as privileges.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • rockloper
                          Pretty simple Anna then don t discuss it. Did you actually have to post that you didn t want to. You re afraid of losing the discussion that s all or you
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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                            Pretty simple Anna then don't discuss it. Did you actually have to post that you didn't want to. You're afraid of losing the discussion that's all or you made that story up.

                            R

                            --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
                            >
                            > We have a fundamental difference of views on the BoR. I have no interest in
                            > continuing this discussion with you.
                            >
                            > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:11 AM, rockloper wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > What state did this occur in? This would be a far better society if we
                            > > treated the BOR as privileges.
                            > >
                            > > R
                            > >
                            > > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > On Jan 2, 2013 5:26 PM, "rockloper" wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer
                            > > my
                            > > > first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when
                            > > > purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is
                            > > what
                            > > > are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I was denied a concealed carry permit. After my roommate was kidnapped in
                            > > > front of our house and raped. In broad daylight. At the time, I had a top
                            > > > secret clearance in the Army reserves. I was told I had "insufficient
                            > > > cause" to be granted a CCP.
                            > > >
                            > > > If exercising a "right" is at the whim of some government functionary,
                            > > it's
                            > > > a privilege. And the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights should never
                            > > > be allowed to be treated as privileges.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > cordially,
                            > Anna
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • rockloper
                            Tom I believe all these questions have been answered but email me privately if you think not. Or if the group requests I will answer on the group. R
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jan 6, 2013
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                              Tom I believe all these questions have been answered but email me privately if you think not. Or if the group requests I will answer on the group.

                              R

                              --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Tom Visel wrote:
                              >
                              > Gee, Rock, you've got a lot of questions - and are awfully insistent about
                              > answers - for someone who won't consider what is being said to him. Suppose
                              > you answer a couple:
                              > 1. What is your agenda?
                              > 1.5 How is this consistent with survivalism?
                              > 2. Why do you feel that your opinion is of sufficient weight to be laid
                              > upon us all like law, when we would let you be?
                              > 3. Why are you afraid of a thing that can minimize threats to your life?
                              > 4. Who appointed you god, that our rights should be made privileges?
                              > 5. Do you have a "gun-free zone" sign up in your yard, or are you a
                              > hypocrite?
                              > 6. What qualifies you to judge the worthiness of a person to have rights?
                              > 7. Don't you have a bridge to be under, waiting for some billy goats gruff?
                              >
                              > You can give that last one a pass, but the others would lay to rest some
                              > long-standing headscratching that happens every time one of your posts
                              > shows up.
                              >
                              > Cordially,
                              > TomV
                              >
                              >
                              > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:11 PM, rockloper wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > What state did this occur in? This would be a far better society if we
                              > > treated the BOR as privileges.
                              > >
                              > > R
                              > >
                              > > --- In misc_survivalism_moderated@yahoogroups.com, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > > On Jan 2, 2013 5:26 PM, "rockloper" wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Has anybody on this group been denied a firearm? And you didn't answer
                              > > my
                              > > > first question which was what rights have you had infringed upon when
                              > > > purchasing a gun? I think the most appropriate question to be asked is
                              > > what
                              > > > are you afraid of with more gun safety legislation?
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > I was denied a concealed carry permit. After my roommate was kidnapped in
                              > > > front of our house and raped. In broad daylight. At the time, I had a top
                              > > > secret clearance in the Army reserves. I was told I had "insufficient
                              > > > cause" to be granted a CCP.
                              > > >
                              > > > If exercising a "right" is at the whim of some government functionary,
                              > > it's
                              > > > a privilege. And the Rights enumerated in our Bill of Rights should never
                              > > > be allowed to be treated as privileges.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
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