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George's Shop

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  • gbritnell
    Gentlemen, I am new to the group and I have posted some pictures of my 1978 Enco Mill/Drill. I had attended the NAMES show in Michigan a number of years back
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 29, 2004
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      Gentlemen,
      I am new to the group and I have posted some pictures of my 1978 Enco
      Mill/Drill. I had attended the NAMES show in Michigan a number of
      years back and a fellow from Germany was selling digital scales that
      he made himself. I only had enough money to buy the 18" scale for the
      X axis so later on I bought an 8" digital caliper for the Y axis and
      made the mounting brackets that you see in the photo. I have produced
      a great many parts and models with this machine. I have noticed a
      common thread among all of the postings that I have read and that is
      the machine won't make a nice smooth cut. I put link belts on mine
      and that seemed to help somewhat but it still doesn't cut like a
      better machine. Actually I have a milling attachment for my lathe and
      it will make a smoother cut. Overall the machine has been a good
      investment and with a little hand work it makes fine parts. Examples
      of my work can be seen at:

      http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/gbritnell

      While I'm here, has anyone actually upgraded to better spindle
      bearings and had the tool finish get better? Let me know if it has
      because I would do this if it would help.
      gbritnell
    • Marv De Beque
      I upgraded to Timkin bearings and the finish was still rotten. However, when I upgraded from the mill/drill to a Bridgeport, the finish problem was resolved. I
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 29, 2004
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        I upgraded to Timkin bearings and the finish was still rotten.

        However, when I upgraded from the mill/drill to a Bridgeport, the finish
        problem was resolved.

        I am using the mill/drill as a drill press now.

        Marv

        On 3/29/04 5:15 PM, "gbritnell" <gbritnell@...> wrote:

        > Gentlemen,
        > I am new to the group and I have posted some pictures of my 1978 Enco
        > Mill/Drill. I had attended the NAMES show in Michigan a number of
        > years back and a fellow from Germany was selling digital scales that
        > he made himself. I only had enough money to buy the 18" scale for the
        > X axis so later on I bought an 8" digital caliper for the Y axis and
        > made the mounting brackets that you see in the photo. I have produced
        > a great many parts and models with this machine. I have noticed a
        > common thread among all of the postings that I have read and that is
        > the machine won't make a nice smooth cut. I put link belts on mine
        > and that seemed to help somewhat but it still doesn't cut like a
        > better machine. Actually I have a milling attachment for my lathe and
        > it will make a smoother cut. Overall the machine has been a good
        > investment and with a little hand work it makes fine parts. Examples
        > of my work can be seen at:
        >
        > http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/gbritnell
        >
        > While I'm here, has anyone actually upgraded to better spindle
        > bearings and had the tool finish get better? Let me know if it has
        > because I would do this if it would help.
        > gbritnell
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • transdoctor3@aol.com
        Very impressive portfolio George,looks like a lifetime of work,very very good looking work Rick C.
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 29, 2004
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          Very impressive portfolio George,looks like a lifetime of work,very very good looking work
                                                                                                                            Rick C.
        • Phil Teague
          George: It is impressive to see what you have accomplished with the tools that you have. It is pretty obvious that you don t need a Bridgeport to machine some
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 29, 2004
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            George:

            It is impressive to see what you have accomplished with the tools that
            you have. It is pretty obvious that you don't need a Bridgeport to
            machine some very impressive looking (and I assume running) model
            engines. Perhaps a Bridgeport may make smoother cuts, but I am not
            totally convinced that is really a problem if you have the skill to
            use even a mill/drill well.

            At the rate I am machining model engines I am going to have to make it
            to 100 to complete half of what you have done.

            Keep up the good work.

            Phil Teague (mill/drill owner)


            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gbritnell" <gbritnell@y...> wrote:
            > Gentlemen,
            > I am new to the group and I have posted some pictures of my 1978 Enco
            > Mill/Drill. I had attended the NAMES show in Michigan a number of
            > years back and a fellow from Germany was selling digital scales that
            > he made himself. I only had enough money to buy the 18" scale for the
            > X axis so later on I bought an 8" digital caliper for the Y axis and
            > made the mounting brackets that you see in the photo. I have produced
            > a great many parts and models with this machine. I have noticed a
            > common thread among all of the postings that I have read and that is
            > the machine won't make a nice smooth cut. I put link belts on mine
            > and that seemed to help somewhat but it still doesn't cut like a
            > better machine. Actually I have a milling attachment for my lathe and
            > it will make a smoother cut. Overall the machine has been a good
            > investment and with a little hand work it makes fine parts. Examples
            > of my work can

            be seen at:
            >
            > http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/gbritnell
            >
            > While I'm here, has anyone actually upgraded to better spindle
            > bearings and had the tool finish get better? Let me know if it has
            > because I would do this if it would help.
            > gbritnell
          • auntiedodo
            Great Work, kept it up.Brett
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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              Great Work, kept it up.Brett
            • Dirk F Ganzinga
              ... Enco ... Hi, I was very surprised to see that we have the same mill. Yours is an Enco 1978, mine is PDM-20 1983. Apart from some details (steel or plastic
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                > I am new to the group and I have posted some pictures of my 1978
                Enco
                > Mill/Drill.

                Hi, I was very surprised to see that we have the same mill. Yours is
                an Enco 1978, mine is PDM-20 1983. Apart from some details (steel or
                plastic handwheels, eg) it looks identical. To get more knowledge of
                the machine I googled "PDM-20" and found not much. Your pictures are
                very usefull to make some missing parts! Would like to see more of
                them. I will upload some of my machine, if you are interested.

                Also, would you be willing to scan a copy of the manual and upload it
                to our File-section? It could be a great help to me or other millers.

                First test of the mill showed typical milling pattern on a piece of
                alu. Here are some guesses of how to improve that (but I'm not an
                expert miller, yet). (1) I looked at the fat V-belts, after a long
                period of rest they gave a very bumpy ride, when getting hotter it's
                better. (2) The wooden stand I made was open on the front (tool
                storage), there was strong vibration in the X-axis, as if the machine
                tends to rotate around it's pillar. After closing the front with a
                panel that's gone now. Acces to the stand only on the side, as seen
                on accessory stands. Your cabinet is also open on the front. (3) I
                dismantled the spindle and cleaned lower tapered bearing, it looks
                ok; the upper had already been replaced by SKF. Tensioning of both
                bearings is by means of a single nut. As these two bearings are
                pushed towards each other (X-configuration), I think the upper should
                also be a tapered one in reverse or at least an angle-contact type.
                (4) Dialing the rotating spindle shows a radial movement of 0,05 mm;
                when pushing the head there is a huge indication (due to the flexing
                construction or improper pillar clamping).
                Regards,
                Dirk
              • billbryden
                I know what you mean about the mill pattern in the work. I ve replaced belts with some modest improvement. Folks on the import lathe groups have noted a
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                  I know what you mean about the mill pattern in the work. I've
                  replaced belts with some modest improvement. Folks on the import
                  lathe groups have noted a large influence of motor vibration showing
                  up as surface patterns in the work with those machines. When they
                  mounted the motor on isolation pads, they got a significant
                  improvement in surface finish. I've been thinking of getting some
                  Lord mounts and putting these between the motor and the mounting plate
                  it bolts to. Has anyone attempted something like this and noted a
                  benefit with a mill-drill? Thanks.
                  Bill
                • Joe Smith
                  Impressive work! My 2 drill mills cut a rough finish too. Plan to try better belts. Joe Smith ... From: gbritnell [mailto:gbritnell@yahoo.com] Sent:
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                    Impressive work!      My 2 drill mills cut a rough finish too.  Plan to try better belts.

                     

                    Joe Smith

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: gbritnell [mailto:gbritnell@...]
                    Sent:
                    Monday, March 29, 2004 4:15 PM
                    To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [mill_drill] George's Shop

                     

                  • Glenn Neff
                    This might be a bit off the wall but I have noticed on my lathe that I get better finish when I am using the monster chucks as opposed to the tiny jacobs
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                      This might be a bit off the wall but I have noticed on my lathe that I get better finish when I am using the monster chucks as opposed to the tiny jacobs headstock chuck or the 5" 3 jaw.  So with this in mind ... a flywheel on the motor shaft might smooth things out.  Single phase motors have an inherant vibration from the 60Hz power.  Three pahse motors run much smoother and DC is the best. 
                      I don't know if the bearings could handel a 20# flywheel on them but it would make for better average power.  The down side would be it would take forever to spin down and tapping would require a tapping head.  Drilling might be a bit iffy too but then I rarely need to stop a dril fast.
                       
                      Glenn
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:28 AM
                      Subject: [mill_drill] Re: George's Shop


                      I know what you mean about the mill pattern in the work.  I've
                      replaced belts with some modest improvement.   Folks on the import
                      lathe groups have noted a large influence of motor vibration showing
                      up as surface patterns in the work with those machines.  When they
                      mounted the motor on isolation pads, they got a significant
                      improvement in surface finish.  I've been thinking of getting some
                      Lord mounts and putting these between the motor and the mounting plate
                      it bolts to.  Has anyone attempted something like this and noted a
                      benefit with a mill-drill?  Thanks.
                      Bill


                    • Phil Teague
                      On the subject of surface finish I was curious about how good of surface finish I could get with my HF $799 mill/drill (33686 model). I have included some
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                        On the subject of surface finish I was curious about how good of
                        surface finish I could get with my HF $799 mill/drill (33686 model). I
                        have included some links to photos I took of my efforts.
                        Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to capture the surface finish
                        the way I would like.

                        In the first photo I am using a 5/8" roughing end mill to make an
                        initial cut that is 3/8" deep and 1/4" wide in a piece of 1018 CRS. I
                        am turning at 400 rpm using power feed (although I did not measure the
                        speed of the feed). I used some Klearcut lard/mineral oil applied with
                        a brush.
                        http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Initial_rough_cut.jpg
                        The end mill I am using is the most expensive end mill I own (except
                        the indexable one I use later). It cost $8.99 from Enco. Everyone
                        should have one. It really cuts well. You will notice that there are
                        are faint marks on the vertical cut face resulting from the end mill.
                        The surface is actually pretty smooth.

                        The second photo is not as clear, but is after taking a cut using a
                        5/8" M2AL plain end mill ($3.00 from JTS). I took off .010" on the
                        vertical and horizontal faces also using the Klearcut oil.
                        http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/2nd_cut_reg_end_mill.jpg
                        This smoothed out the vertical face but there are faint ripples on the
                        vertical face you can see if you hold it up to the light. It is,
                        however, smooth to the touch.

                        So, I made one last climb mill cut taking off about .004" on the
                        vertical face only. This was using the same end mill still using 400
                        rpm as the speed.
                        http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Final_climb_mill_cut.jpg
                        The made most of the ripple effect of the last cut go away. You can
                        still see a very faint ripple effect if you hold it to the light. The
                        photos do not convey this very well.

                        So, I decided to use the 1 3/8" indexable end mill to see if I could
                        improve any at all on the above cut. The end mill uses two TPG
                        tungsten carbide coated inserts (~$12 from JTS I mention the price of
                        the tools so you can see that I don't have anything exotic in the way
                        of cutting tools).
                        http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Indexable_end_mill.jpg
                        This was done taking off about .005" on the vertical face and about
                        the same on the horizontal face using climb milling. I have not ever
                        using this end mill to do side milling. It actually seemed to work OK.
                        It made some slight bit of difference in the finish of the vertical
                        face. The horizontal face has a cross hatch pattern but is smooth.
                        The final two photos are not real sharp show sort of what the surface
                        is like after using the indexable end mill.
                        http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Final_cut1.jpg
                        http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Final_cut2.jpg

                        I wish I had a Bridgeport or even another mill/drill to compare
                        results with. I have found that I can generally get satisfactory
                        results with my mill, although I am sure it could be improved upon.


                        Phil Teague

                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "billbryden" <billbryden@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I know what you mean about the mill pattern in the work. I've
                        > replaced belts with some modest improvement. Folks on the import
                        > lathe groups have noted a large influence of motor vibration showing
                        > up as surface patterns in the work with those machines. When they
                        > mounted the motor on isolation pads, they got a significant
                        > improvement in surface finish. I've been thinking of getting some
                        > Lord mounts and putting these between the motor and the mounting plate
                        > it bolts to. Has anyone attempted something like this and noted a
                        > benefit with a mill-drill? Thanks.
                        > Bill
                      • Ned Seith
                        Greetings, For smooth flat finishes on Asian machines, I have had good results with 2 1/2 and 3 diameter shell mills sold by Enco. For removing light
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 31, 2004
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                          Greetings,

                          For smooth flat finishes on Asian machines, I have had good results
                          with 2 1/2" and 3" diameter shell mills sold by Enco.

                          For removing light machining marks, I use 3" and 4" diameter 3M
                          Roloc scotchbrite disks.

                          At 1,500 RPM, a red Roloc disk followed by a blue Roloc disk will
                          give beautiful results with kerosene and aluminum/brass or cutting
                          oil and steels.

                          Ned

                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Teague" <philteague@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > On the subject of surface finish I was curious about how good of
                          > surface finish I could get with my HF $799 mill/drill (33686
                          model). I
                          > have included some links to photos I took of my efforts.
                          > Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to capture the surface finish
                          > the way I would like.
                          >
                          > In the first photo I am using a 5/8" roughing end mill to make an
                          > initial cut that is 3/8" deep and 1/4" wide in a piece of 1018
                          CRS. I
                          > am turning at 400 rpm using power feed (although I did not measure
                          the
                          > speed of the feed). I used some Klearcut lard/mineral oil applied
                          with
                          > a brush.
                          >
                          http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Initial_rough_cut
                          .jpg
                          > The end mill I am using is the most expensive end mill I own
                          (except
                          > the indexable one I use later). It cost $8.99 from Enco. Everyone
                          > should have one. It really cuts well. You will notice that there
                          are
                          > are faint marks on the vertical cut face resulting from the end
                          mill.
                          > The surface is actually pretty smooth.
                          >
                          > The second photo is not as clear, but is after taking a cut using a
                          > 5/8" M2AL plain end mill ($3.00 from JTS). I took off .010" on the
                          > vertical and horizontal faces also using the Klearcut oil.
                          >
                          http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/2nd_cut_reg_end_m
                          ill.jpg
                          > This smoothed out the vertical face but there are faint ripples on
                          the
                          > vertical face you can see if you hold it up to the light. It is,
                          > however, smooth to the touch.
                          >
                          > So, I made one last climb mill cut taking off about .004" on the
                          > vertical face only. This was using the same end mill still using
                          400
                          > rpm as the speed.
                          >
                          http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Final_climb_mill_
                          cut.jpg
                          > The made most of the ripple effect of the last cut go away. You can
                          > still see a very faint ripple effect if you hold it to the light.
                          The
                          > photos do not convey this very well.
                          >
                          > So, I decided to use the 1 3/8" indexable end mill to see if I
                          could
                          > improve any at all on the above cut. The end mill uses two TPG
                          > tungsten carbide coated inserts (~$12 from JTS I mention the price
                          of
                          > the tools so you can see that I don't have anything exotic in the
                          way
                          > of cutting tools).
                          >
                          http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Indexable_end_mil
                          l.jpg
                          > This was done taking off about .005" on the vertical face and about
                          > the same on the horizontal face using climb milling. I have not
                          ever
                          > using this end mill to do side milling. It actually seemed to work
                          OK.
                          > It made some slight bit of difference in the finish of the vertical
                          > face. The horizontal face has a cross hatch pattern but is smooth.
                          > The final two photos are not real sharp show sort of what the
                          surface
                          > is like after using the indexable end mill.
                          > http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Final_cut1.jpg
                          > http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v132/philteague/Final_cut2.jpg
                          >
                          > I wish I had a Bridgeport or even another mill/drill to compare
                          > results with. I have found that I can generally get satisfactory
                          > results with my mill, although I am sure it could be improved upon.
                          >
                          >
                          > Phil Teague
                          >
                          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "billbryden" <billbryden@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I know what you mean about the mill pattern in the work. I've
                          > > replaced belts with some modest improvement. Folks on the
                          import
                          > > lathe groups have noted a large influence of motor vibration
                          showing
                          > > up as surface patterns in the work with those machines. When
                          they
                          > > mounted the motor on isolation pads, they got a significant
                          > > improvement in surface finish. I've been thinking of getting
                          some
                          > > Lord mounts and putting these between the motor and the mounting
                          plate
                          > > it bolts to. Has anyone attempted something like this and noted
                          a
                          > > benefit with a mill-drill? Thanks.
                          > > Bill
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