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Re: Hi guys, I need help with clamping my workpiece

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  • lopan1875
    ... angled down. Cool thats what I thought.:} ... anything ... I am not using anything to protect the table. It seems pretty worn but is still somewhat flat.
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 11, 2004
      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Matt <matt@j...> wrote:

      > You want to set the clamps so that the clamp part is just slightly
      angled down.

      Cool thats what I thought.:}>

      > Tighten it more. Cutting forces can get pretty high. Are you using
      anything
      > between the table and your part to protect the table?

      I am not using anything to protect the table. It seems pretty worn
      but is still somewhat flat.

      > Cutting depth depends on many things. I would go closer to .020"
      per pass
      > and see how things feel.

      Ill do that. I was just mentioning the single 1/8" deep pass because
      an older buddy of mine with a bridegport said thats how hed do it,
      and also wanted to see what the md owner thought about taking such a
      deep pass. I know these arent bridgeports, but could these md's
      handle such a pass on 1018 cold rolled square bar?? Id like to know.

      > Do you have a Dial test indicator?

      No way. I have an MD, a sine vise, clamping kit, 1 endmill, 1 double
      ended end mill, and a 1/8" woodruff cutter which is really my
      friends. Thats is all this newbie has for tooling, but got the md for
      250 used. I really should be asking you guys how to inspect my
      spindle, because I can wiggle it slightly. It might be from my last
      attempt to undo the huge nut which is on top of the pulley, which
      turns the spindle. I tried to undo this nut to see how things looked
      inside, like the bearings etc. I tried and gave up real quick, but I
      believe it moved slightly. Can anyone confirm which way to turn the
      nut to loosen it? Mine is counter clockwise, I think.

      > You are planning on cutting the slots along the top of the bar?
      >
      > Does your bar need to be certain finished dimensions?
      >
      > There is a lot going on here. I don't think I can do it justice in
      a single
      > e-mail. Hopefully some other guys can chime in and really take an
      honest
      > wack at your question.

      Yes it will be close to the top, howd you know? :} Im sorry to
      throw all this at cha. I just really should of asked about how to
      clamp it only. But thanks for trying my md friend.

      > Whereabouts are you at David? If you were near Iowa, I'd say stop
      by and I
      > can learn you up some things in a few hours :)

      Oh man Im too far from ya friend. But heck, Id love to stop by and
      learn. One day maybe :}

      Man I got to research these archives. Thanks everyone
    • leasingham_connelly
      ... that ... snipped ... of ... holding ... Don t worry about beeing ignorant or a rookie, we all started off like that, the only way to find out is to ask or
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 11, 2004
        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "lopan1875" <lopan1875@y...> wrote:
        > Hey MD veterans. I was wondering how to effectively and safely
        > secure my workpiece using the common clamping kit. I do not have a
        > vise, and dont plan to get one any time soon, and besides, this
        > square bar is about 13 inches long and 2 by 2 inches. I was told
        that
        > it would be clamped if I wanted to cut 1/8th inch slots along the
        > sides of it. 1 slot on each side, from end to end.
        >

        snipped

        > my machine. Someone please school me or send me a link on details
        of
        > how to hold a workpiece similar to what I have described. I did a
        > search on this board and came up on nothing relating to work
        holding
        > or clamping kits. Thanks in advance.
        >
        > David

        Don't worry about beeing ignorant or a rookie, we all started off
        like that, the only way to find out is to ask or search for answers
        which is what you're doing - so carry on.

        For a large item like this the forces can move the part easily
        because of leverage. Plenty of clamps rather than just two is the
        rule. Also if you can clamp some stop blocks to the table this will
        help. If you have extra tee nuts, short studs and clamp bars these
        can be used. Clamp the bars directly to the table and in contact with
        the workpiece. This will make it a lot harder for the piece to move
        due to the cutting forces. A word of warning, too much tension on the
        clamping studs could in theory break the tee slots and pull the nut
        thru. This is why you should only use full size tee nuts in the
        slots. If you are clamping stop blocks to the table then there is
        usualy no chance of this happening as the top of the table is in
        contact with the stop block and so can't be pulled thru. This means
        you can clamp them as tight as possible and it also does not damage
        the top of the workpiece. The other risk is that if you have tee nuts
        that are threaded with a full thread all the way thru is that the
        stud or bolt used with it can jack the tee nut up and break the
        table. You should find with bought clamping sets that the stud stops
        at the bottom of the nut to prevent this.

        If you can find pictures of people doing jobs then you can see how
        they have done their setups. The Wood Dragon who runs the milldrill
        group is in the process of making an engine and is posting pictures
        of his progress, see:

        http://tejasdragon.com/Whittle_V8/Whittle_001.jpg
        http://tejasdragon.com/Whittle_V8/Whittle_029.jpg

        and the numbers in between, he may be past 029 by now.

        Also look for suppliers of clamping equipment, they may show examples
        of their items in use, examples are:

        www.wixroyd.com

        www.wdsltd.co.uk

        Finaly get a dial indicator as soon as you can, it's pretty much
        essential for setting up any job or even a vice and certainly for
        checking the mill is cutting true (as in getting 90° when you want
        90°), look for "tramming the head" in the archives.

        Martin
      • Paul Huffman
        If you can get some blocks that are the same thickness as the slot in the table(slightly under), put them in a slot and put the part against them, this will
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 11, 2004
          If you can get some blocks that are the same thickness as the slot in
          the table(slightly under), put them in a slot and put the part
          against them, this will line you up. Two clamps should be plenty, use
          three if it makes you feel better. I guess you are using a slitting
          saw? Easy feed and 2 passes should be fine. Taking smaller passes is
          ok and can help you get the 'feel' of the cutting.
          HTH
          Paul in OKC
        • D Covey
          ... slightly ... using ... because ... a ... know. ... double ... for ... last ... looked ... I ... the ... If you pull off the front cover and drop the quill
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 11, 2004
            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "lopan1875" <lopan1875@y...>
            wrote:
            > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Matt <matt@j...> wrote:
            >
            > > You want to set the clamps so that the clamp part is just
            slightly
            > angled down.
            >
            > Cool thats what I thought.:}>
            >
            > > Tighten it more. Cutting forces can get pretty high. Are you
            using
            > anything
            > > between the table and your part to protect the table?
            >
            > I am not using anything to protect the table. It seems pretty worn
            > but is still somewhat flat.
            >
            > > Cutting depth depends on many things. I would go closer to .020"
            > per pass
            > > and see how things feel.
            >
            > Ill do that. I was just mentioning the single 1/8" deep pass
            because
            > an older buddy of mine with a bridegport said thats how hed do it,
            > and also wanted to see what the md owner thought about taking such
            a
            > deep pass. I know these arent bridgeports, but could these md's
            > handle such a pass on 1018 cold rolled square bar?? Id like to
            know.
            >
            > > Do you have a Dial test indicator?
            >
            > No way. I have an MD, a sine vise, clamping kit, 1 endmill, 1
            double
            > ended end mill, and a 1/8" woodruff cutter which is really my
            > friends. Thats is all this newbie has for tooling, but got the md
            for
            > 250 used. I really should be asking you guys how to inspect my
            > spindle, because I can wiggle it slightly. It might be from my
            last
            > attempt to undo the huge nut which is on top of the pulley, which
            > turns the spindle. I tried to undo this nut to see how things
            looked
            > inside, like the bearings etc. I tried and gave up real quick, but
            I
            > believe it moved slightly. Can anyone confirm which way to turn
            the
            > nut to loosen it? Mine is counter clockwise, I think.

            If you pull off the front cover and drop the quill down 2/3 to 3/4
            of travel you should see the preload nut in top of the quill. Mine
            has 2 nuts with a locking ring in between them.
            >
            > > You are planning on cutting the slots along the top of the bar?
            > >
            > > Does your bar need to be certain finished dimensions?
            > >
            > > There is a lot going on here. I don't think I can do it justice
            in
            > a single
            > > e-mail. Hopefully some other guys can chime in and really take
            an
            > honest
            > > wack at your question.
            >
            > Yes it will be close to the top, howd you know? :} Im sorry to
            > throw all this at cha. I just really should of asked about how to
            > clamp it only. But thanks for trying my md friend.
            >
            > > Whereabouts are you at David? If you were near Iowa, I'd say
            stop
            > by and I
            > > can learn you up some things in a few hours :)
            >
            > Oh man Im too far from ya friend. But heck, Id love to stop by
            and
            > learn. One day maybe :}
            >
            > Man I got to research these archives. Thanks everyone
          • n5kzw
            ... I think I ve heard machinists suggest putting a piece of typing paper between the table and the part being clamped. It increases the friction between the
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 12, 2004
              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "lopan1875" <lopan1875@y...> wrote:
              > Hey MD veterans. I was wondering how to effectively and safely
              > secure my workpiece using the common clamping kit. I do not have a
              > vise, and dont plan to get one any time soon, and besides, this
              > square bar is about 13 inches long and 2 by 2 inches. I was told that
              > it would be clamped if I wanted to cut 1/8th inch slots along the
              > sides of it. 1 slot on each side, from end to end.
              >
              > I know I am a rookie, but I shure could use some help or
              > instruction on which pieces to use and where to place the clamps,
              > etc. I did a search on the net and got no details on this method. I
              > am sketchy to attempt a pass the way I have it clamped down right
              > now. I have the two largest triangular step pieces holding the two
              > largest clamps up, equal to the bars height. That is about 2 inches
              > high. Now these clamps are both on one side of the bar, because if
              > not, it would be in the way of machining the slot. My question is how
              > tight am I supposed to clamp this workpiece down? I took a hammer and
              > hit the work on one side with a nice little tap, medium tap I should
              > say, and it moves slightly. Is this normal??? I dont want to attempt
              > to cut the slot, and have the workpiece move. I need to slice a 1/8
              > inch wide slot, that is 1/8th of an inch deep. Oh I also need to ask
              > if I should take this cut in one pass, or take it in two passes, each
              > 1/16th of an inch deep, to achieve my 1/8th inch depth requirement???
              > One last question that is related to my project here, how would I
              > make shure that the depth stays the same from start to finish of the
              > slot cutting operation? Would I just set up the workpiece, lightly
              > clamp, eyeball the lining up of everything, and with the machine off,
              > take a practice pass from start to end of workpiece? You know, with
              > the cutter "kissing" the work at the start and watching it as it
              > travels along the work and then to the end making shure it is still
              > kissing the surface?
              >
              > I hope I dont get flamed for asking such a beginner question. I
              > just need to start somewhere and want to learn the correct way to use
              > my machine. Someone please school me or send me a link on details of
              > how to hold a workpiece similar to what I have described. I did a
              > search on this board and came up on nothing relating to work holding
              > or clamping kits. Thanks in advance.
              >
              > David

              I think I've heard machinists suggest putting a piece of typing paper
              between the table and the part being clamped. It increases the
              friction between the two parts. I'd also recommend putting a clamp in
              the middle of your bar. After you've cut the slot in one side of the
              bar, move the clamp around to the slotted side and then cut your
              second slot.

              Cutting each slot in two passes is probably safest if you are using an
              end mill. I haven't much experience with slitting saws, but I have no
              doubt that there are recommended feeds & speeds in the Machinists
              Handbook.

              Good Luck,
              Ed Bailen
            • lopan1875
              Martin, thanks a bunch for that 001 jpeg. Thanks for all the knowledge too. I looked it and stared for a while. That is aluminum he is machining correct? And
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 13, 2004
                Martin, thanks a bunch for that 001 jpeg. Thanks for all the
                knowledge too. I looked it and stared for a while. That is aluminum
                he is machining correct? And also, do you think the clamp to the left
                and its t slot nut is up against whatever it is that is being
                clamped? [On the bottom, you know, maybe to prevent the piece from
                moving towards the left while taking a pass??]

                It still looks like that the two clamped areas are just bearly
                being held doesnt it?? Its amazing how that example of clamping can
                actually hold things securely. WOW.

                David
              • lopan1875
                ... paper ... in ... the ... an ... no ... Hey Ed, that is one good idea. I imagine that 1 sheet of typing paper will stop it from sliding... YeaH, I will try
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 15, 2004
                  > I think I've heard machinists suggest putting a piece of typing
                  paper
                  > between the table and the part being clamped. It increases the
                  > friction between the two parts. I'd also recommend putting a clamp
                  in
                  > the middle of your bar. After you've cut the slot in one side of
                  the
                  > bar, move the clamp around to the slotted side and then cut your
                  > second slot.
                  >
                  > Cutting each slot in two passes is probably safest if you are using
                  an
                  > end mill. I haven't much experience with slitting saws, but I have
                  no
                  > doubt that there are recommended feeds & speeds in the Machinists
                  > Handbook.
                  >
                  > Good Luck,
                  > Ed Bailen


                  Hey Ed, that is one good idea. I imagine that 1 sheet of typing
                  paper will stop it from sliding... YeaH, I will try that one.
                  Thankyou.

                  David
                • leasingham_connelly
                  ... left ... Join the milldrill group and ask the Wood Dragon himself, he is the moderator of the group and seems to enjoy answering people s questions about
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 15, 2004
                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "lopan1875" <lopan1875@y...> wrote:
                    > Martin, thanks a bunch for that 001 jpeg. Thanks for all the
                    > knowledge too. I looked it and stared for a while. That is aluminum
                    > he is machining correct? And also, do you think the clamp to the
                    left
                    > and its t slot nut is up against whatever it is that is being
                    > clamped? [On the bottom, you know, maybe to prevent the piece from
                    > moving towards the left while taking a pass??]
                    >
                    > It still looks like that the two clamped areas are just bearly
                    > being held doesnt it?? Its amazing how that example of clamping can
                    > actually hold things securely. WOW.
                    >
                    > David

                    Join the milldrill group and ask the Wood Dragon himself, he is the
                    moderator of the group and seems to enjoy answering people's
                    questions about his work. Whilst his group is aimed at the smaller
                    mill drills and this at the larger ones there are a lot of features
                    and problems in common.

                    I looked at the pictures and believed it was steel he was machining,
                    but I havn't asked.

                    Martin
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