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Re: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?

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  • Dave Hills
    Jerry, I m sure the torque is greatly reduced at 5Hz, but even so the belt slips before the motor stalls. The motor is a Dayton brand, Grainger P/N 3N333
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 3, 2003
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      Jerry,

      I'm sure the torque is greatly reduced at 5Hz, but even so the belt slips before
      the motor stalls.

      The motor is a Dayton brand, Grainger P/N "3N333" which I bought new at an
      auction. Although I did not need a "hazardous location" type motor, I couldn't
      pass it up for $65. And it fitted up perfectly. (I did have to bore out the
      motor pulley by about a 1/32" or so to convert it from metric to English.)

      The VFD is a Mitsubishi Model FR-A220E. I believe this is an obsolete model and
      may not be available. It is one with a remote programming keypad which lets you
      adjust about every parameter but the color of the case. ;}

      By the way I am running the VFD from a 230 volt single phase line.
      Interestingly the original Jet motor would get quite HOT after 20 minutes or
      so. With the VFD the motor never gets more than just warm.


      Regards,

      Dave




      ]Dave,
      ]Excellent report. I've generally heard you don't want to go below 25% of rated
      speed or 15Hz. If you can get good ]performance down to 5Hz that speaks well
      for the Mitsubishi VFD which I
      ]was considering anyhow. What type of motor do you have? I have a 2speed
      baldor I bought on ebay but the low speed is ]nly rated 1/3 hp or something
      silly like that so I'll probably wire it up as
      ]a single speed. What model VFD do you have?

      ]Thanks,
      ]Jerry
    • Jerry Stephenson
      Dave, That shounds great--I m eager to get mine going. Thanks for your vfd model number, I ll keep it in mind as I watch for one. It seems the current model
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 3, 2003
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        Dave,
        That shounds great--I'm eager to get mine going.  Thanks for your vfd model number, I'll keep it in mind as I watch for one.  It seems the current model has a slightly different number and sells for just over $200.  I plan to use 230 single phase out also. 
         
        I'm lucky, the taiwanese motor on my HF2119 seems to run very smoothely and coolly.
         
        Cheers, Jerry
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:41 PM
        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?


        Jerry,

        I'm sure the torque is greatly reduced at 5Hz, but even so the belt slips before
        the motor stalls.

        The motor is a Dayton brand, Grainger P/N "3N333" which I bought new at an
        auction.  Although I did not need a "hazardous location" type motor, I couldn't
        pass it up for $65.  And it fitted up perfectly.  (I did have to bore out the
        motor pulley by about a 1/32" or so to convert it from metric to English.)

        The VFD is a Mitsubishi Model FR-A220E.  I believe this is an obsolete model and
        may not be available.  It is one with a remote programming keypad which lets you
        adjust about every parameter but the color of the case. ;}

        By the way I am running the VFD from a 230 volt single phase line.
        Interestingly the original Jet motor would get quite HOT after 20 minutes or
        so.  With the VFD the motor never gets more than just warm.


        Regards,

        Dave




        ]Dave,
        ]Excellent report.  I've generally heard you don't want to go below 25% of rated
        speed or 15Hz.  If you can get good ]performance down to 5Hz that speaks well
        for the Mitsubishi VFD which I
        ]was considering anyhow.  What type of motor do you have?  I have a 2speed
        baldor I bought on ebay but the low speed is ]nly rated 1/3 hp or something
        silly like that so I'll probably wire it up as
        ]a single speed.  What model VFD do you have?

        ]Thanks,
        ]Jerry



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      • gdl264
        Hello, I ve come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement. I m planning to go
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
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          Hello,
          I've come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is
          the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement. I'm
          planning to go with a new 3 phase motor with a Mitsubishi s-500
          series VFD sold on eBay.

          Should I go with a 1.5 HP motor or a 2 HP? What motor would you
          recommend (a link or Part # would be helpful).

          In the ebay photo of the VFD it looks like it has a LED readout, does
          it show RPM? What is the RPM range with the VFD?

          For future reference would a VFD also work on a 3 phase Bridgeport
          clone in place of a phase converter?
          Gary


          >Hi,

          >I also had severe vibration with my JET RFD-18. (Same as RF-31) The
          >2hp motor
          >is junk! Replaced it with a 1-1/2 hp
          >3-phase motor and Mitsubishi VFD. It is now vibration free
          >throughout the speed
          >ranges and has more than enough torque. I have not moved the belts
          >in over a
          >year, as it works fine down to 5Hz and up to 120 Hz.

          >Dave


          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gdl264" <GDL264@a...> wrote:
          > I recently bought a like new used 1998 RF-30. I have been working
          on
          > it to try and remove as much vibration as possible to reduce tool
          > chatter etc. So far I have replaced the belts with with BX then
          power
          > twist, replaced the spindle bearings (running hot before) and the
          > pulley bearings as well (the machine has sat in storage for several
          > years and the grease was like wax). This evening I filled the stand
          > with concrete (major improvement).
          >
          > I have been monitoring the progress by making cuts on a piece of
          > aluminum and marking them for before after comparison (same cutter,
          > same cut). I have also used a dial indicator mounted to the table
          > with the needle against the rack sleeve. The indicator is an
          > import .0005" with. The needle in the indicator "bounces" when the
          > machine is running from vibration. Initially the needle was
          > bouncing .010" and with all the improvements I've made I'm down to
          > about .001" bounce. Also the chatter marks are beginning to
          disappear.
          >
          > The machine has a 1ph 220 volt motor. I noticed another problem
          when
          > taking my dial "bounce" readings. When I shut off the motor it
          makes
          > an audible click (switch, relay?) when it winds down to about 1/3
          > speed. When that happens the dial needle goes dead. I does the
          exact
          > same thing with the belts set at 2500 or 400. When it clicks the
          > vibration disappears. I don't think anything is wrong with the
          motor,
          > it seems to run perfect otherwise.
          >
          > I was wondering if anyone has tried mounting thier motor on rubber
          > mounts?
          > If so what style of mounts did you use? I was considering the el
          > cheapo route of drilling the holes oversize and using grommets,
          > fender washers and a nylon jam nut unless there is a better way.
          >
          > Also has anyone tried setting a firm rubber pad & rubber isolated
          > bolts between the machine base and the concrete filled stand? Would
          > this further soak up vibration or would the cement base alone work
          > best.
          >
          > Thanks for all the help so far, everyones imput as well as the
          > archives have really helped speed me through this set up process.
        • mertbaker
          Take off the belts and run the motor to see if you still have the vibes. On may machine, it was the lumpy belts. Mert MertBaker@prodigy.net ... From: gdl264
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
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            Take off the belts and run the motor to see if you still have the vibes. On
            may machine, it was the lumpy belts.
            Mert

            MertBaker@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "gdl264" <GDL264@...>
            To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 4:54 AM
            Subject: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?


            > Hello,
            > I've come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is
            > the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement. I'm
            > planning to go with a new 3 phase motor with a Mitsubishi s-500
            > series VFD sold on eBay.
            >
            > Should I go with a 1.5 HP motor or a 2 HP? What motor would you
            > recommend (a link or Part # would be helpful).
            >
            > In the ebay photo of the VFD it looks like it has a LED readout, does
            > it show RPM? What is the RPM range with the VFD?
            >
            > For future reference would a VFD also work on a 3 phase Bridgeport
            > clone in place of a phase converter?
            > Gary
            >
            >
            > >Hi,
            >
            > >I also had severe vibration with my JET RFD-18. (Same as RF-31) The
            > >2hp motor
            > >is junk! Replaced it with a 1-1/2 hp
            > >3-phase motor and Mitsubishi VFD. It is now vibration free
            > >throughout the speed
            > >ranges and has more than enough torque. I have not moved the belts
            > >in over a
            > >year, as it works fine down to 5Hz and up to 120 Hz.
            >
            > >Dave
            >
            >
            > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gdl264" <GDL264@a...> wrote:
            > > I recently bought a like new used 1998 RF-30. I have been working
            > on
            > > it to try and remove as much vibration as possible to reduce tool
            > > chatter etc. So far I have replaced the belts with with BX then
            > power
            > > twist, replaced the spindle bearings (running hot before) and the
            > > pulley bearings as well (the machine has sat in storage for several
            > > years and the grease was like wax). This evening I filled the stand
            > > with concrete (major improvement).
            > >
            > > I have been monitoring the progress by making cuts on a piece of
            > > aluminum and marking them for before after comparison (same cutter,
            > > same cut). I have also used a dial indicator mounted to the table
            > > with the needle against the rack sleeve. The indicator is an
            > > import .0005" with. The needle in the indicator "bounces" when the
            > > machine is running from vibration. Initially the needle was
            > > bouncing .010" and with all the improvements I've made I'm down to
            > > about .001" bounce. Also the chatter marks are beginning to
            > disappear.
            > >
            > > The machine has a 1ph 220 volt motor. I noticed another problem
            > when
            > > taking my dial "bounce" readings. When I shut off the motor it
            > makes
            > > an audible click (switch, relay?) when it winds down to about 1/3
            > > speed. When that happens the dial needle goes dead. I does the
            > exact
            > > same thing with the belts set at 2500 or 400. When it clicks the
            > > vibration disappears. I don't think anything is wrong with the
            > motor,
            > > it seems to run perfect otherwise.
            > >
            > > I was wondering if anyone has tried mounting thier motor on rubber
            > > mounts?
            > > If so what style of mounts did you use? I was considering the el
            > > cheapo route of drilling the holes oversize and using grommets,
            > > fender washers and a nylon jam nut unless there is a better way.
            > >
            > > Also has anyone tried setting a firm rubber pad & rubber isolated
            > > bolts between the machine base and the concrete filled stand? Would
            > > this further soak up vibration or would the cement base alone work
            > > best.
            > >
            > > Thanks for all the help so far, everyones imput as well as the
            > > archives have really helped speed me through this set up process.
            >
            >
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            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            >
            >
            >
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            >
          • nfwood@aol.com
            Guys, Don t forget to have a close check on the mounting and centricity of the pulleys on your motors. Not at all uncommon to have a pulley that is a bit
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
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              Guys,

              Don't forget to have a close check on the mounting and centricity of the pulleys on your motors.  Not at all uncommon to have a pulley that is a bit outta round. And that will cause no end of  grief.

              My guess is that pulleys cause more problems than belts.

              Nelson

            • Jerry Stephenson
              Why the Mitsubishi vs the Hitachi? I ve heard they are very similar and the Hitachi has slightly better specs in that in the 3hp version, it isn t derated for
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
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                Why the Mitsubishi vs the Hitachi?  I"ve heard they are very similar and the Hitachi has slightly better specs in that in the 3hp version, it isn't derated for using 1ph input.  I'm working toward the same decsion and I'm considering the Hitachi but want to know if I should go Mitusibishi instead.
                Thanks, Jerry
                 
                BTW, I bought a 1.5hp baldor 3ph motor to replace my 2hp motor.  Haven't mounted it up yet so I can't say how I like it. 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: gdl264
                Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:54 AM
                Subject: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?

                Hello,
                I've come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is
                the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement. I'm
                planning to go with a new 3 phase motor with a Mitsubishi s-500
                series VFD sold on eBay.

                Should I go with a 1.5 HP motor or a 2 HP? What motor would you
                recommend (a link or Part # would be helpful).

                In the ebay photo of the VFD it looks like it has a LED readout, does
                it show RPM? What is the RPM range with the VFD?

                For future reference would a VFD also work on a 3 phase Bridgeport
                clone in place of a phase converter?
                Gary


                >Hi,

                >I also had severe vibration with my JET RFD-18. (Same as RF-31) The
                >2hp motor
                >is junk! Replaced it with a 1-1/2 hp
                >3-phase motor and Mitsubishi VFD. It is now vibration free
                >throughout the speed
                >ranges and has more than enough torque. I have not moved the belts
                >in over a
                >year, as it works fine down to 5Hz and up to 120 Hz.

                >Dave


                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gdl264" <GDL264@a...> wrote:
                > I recently bought a like new used 1998 RF-30. I have been working
                on
                > it to try and remove as much vibration as possible to reduce tool
                > chatter etc. So far I have replaced the belts with with BX then
                power
                > twist, replaced the spindle bearings (running hot before) and the
                > pulley bearings as well (the machine has sat in storage for several
                > years and the grease was like wax). This evening I filled the stand
                > with concrete (major improvement).
                >
                > I have been monitoring the progress by making cuts on a piece of
                > aluminum and marking them for before after comparison (same cutter,
                > same cut). I have also used a dial indicator mounted to the table
                > with the needle against the rack sleeve. The indicator is an
                > import .0005" with. The needle in the indicator "bounces" when the
                > machine is running from vibration. Initially the needle was
                > bouncing .010" and with all the improvements I've made I'm down to
                > about .001" bounce. Also the chatter marks are beginning to
                disappear.
                >
                > The machine has a 1ph 220 volt motor. I noticed another problem
                when
                > taking my dial "bounce" readings. When I shut off the motor it
                makes
                > an audible click (switch, relay?) when it winds down to about 1/3
                > speed. When that happens the dial needle goes dead. I does the
                exact
                > same thing with the belts set at 2500 or 400. When it clicks the
                > vibration disappears. I don't think anything is wrong with the
                motor,
                > it seems to run perfect otherwise.
                >
                > I was wondering if anyone has tried mounting thier motor on rubber
                > mounts?
                > If so what style of mounts did you use? I was considering the el
                > cheapo route of drilling the holes oversize and using grommets,
                > fender washers and a nylon jam nut unless there is a better way.
                >
                > Also has anyone tried setting a firm rubber pad & rubber isolated
                > bolts between the machine base and the concrete filled stand? Would
                > this further soak up vibration or would the cement base alone work
                > best.
                >
                > Thanks for all the help so far, everyones imput as well as the
                > archives have really helped speed me through this set up process.



                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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              • Marv De Beque
                What do these cost and where do you get them?
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Re: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration? What do these cost and where do you get them?

                  On 10/13/03 10:27 AM, "Jerry Stephenson" <stephejl@...> wrote:

                  Why the Mitsubishi vs the Hitachi?  I"ve heard they are very similar and the Hitachi has slightly better specs in that in the 3hp version, it isn't derated for using 1ph input.  I'm working toward the same decsion and I'm considering the Hitachi but want to know if I should go Mitusibishi instead.
                  Thanks, Jerry

                  BTW, I bought a 1.5hp baldor 3ph motor to replace my 2hp motor.  Haven't mounted it up yet so I can't say how I like it.  
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: gdl264 <mailto:GDL264@...>  
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:54 AM
                  Subject: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?

                  Hello,
                  I've come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is
                  the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement. I'm
                  planning to go with a new 3 phase motor with a Mitsubishi s-500
                  series VFD sold on eBay.

                  Should I go with a 1.5 HP motor or a 2 HP? What motor would you
                  recommend (a link or Part # would be helpful).

                  In the ebay photo of the VFD it looks like it has a LED readout, does
                  it show RPM? What is the RPM range with the VFD?

                  For future reference would a VFD also work on a 3 phase Bridgeport
                  clone in place of a phase converter?
                  Gary


                  >Hi,

                  >I also had severe vibration with my JET RFD-18. (Same as RF-31) The
                  >2hp motor
                  >is junk! Replaced it with a 1-1/2 hp
                  >3-phase motor and Mitsubishi VFD. It is now vibration free
                  >throughout the speed
                  >ranges and has more than enough torque. I have not moved the belts
                  >in over a
                  >year, as it works fine down to 5Hz and up to 120 Hz.

                  >Dave


                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gdl264" <GDL264@a...> wrote:
                  > I recently bought a like new used 1998 RF-30. I have been working
                  on
                  > it to try and remove as much vibration as possible to reduce tool
                  > chatter etc. So far I have replaced the belts with with BX then
                  power
                  > twist, replaced the spindle bearings (running hot before) and the
                  > pulley bearings as well (the machine has sat in storage for several
                  > years and the grease was like wax). This evening I filled the stand
                  > with concrete (major improvement).
                  >
                  > I have been monitoring the progress by making cuts on a piece of
                  > aluminum and marking them for before after comparison (same cutter,
                  > same cut). I have also used a dial indicator mounted to the table
                  > with the needle against the rack sleeve. The indicator is an
                  > import .0005" with. The needle in the indicator "bounces" when the
                  > machine is running from vibration. Initially the needle was
                  > bouncing .010" and with all the improvements I've made I'm down to
                  > about .001" bounce. Also the chatter marks are beginning to
                  disappear.
                  >
                  > The machine has a 1ph 220 volt motor. I noticed another problem
                  when
                  > taking my dial "bounce" readings. When I shut off the motor it
                  makes
                  > an audible click (switch, relay?) when it winds down to about 1/3
                  > speed. When that happens the dial needle goes dead. I does the
                  exact
                  > same thing with the belts set at 2500 or 400. When it clicks the
                  > vibration disappears. I don't think anything is wrong with the
                  motor,
                  > it seems to run perfect otherwise.
                  >
                  > I was wondering if anyone has tried mounting thier motor on rubber
                  > mounts?
                  > If so what style of mounts did you use? I was considering the el
                  > cheapo route of drilling the holes oversize and using grommets,
                  > fender washers and a nylon jam nut unless there is a better way.
                  >
                  > Also has anyone tried setting a firm rubber pad & rubber isolated
                  > bolts between the machine base and the concrete filled stand? Would
                  > this further soak up vibration or would the cement base alone work
                  > best.
                  >
                  > Thanks for all the help so far, everyones imput as well as the
                  > archives have really helped speed me through this set up process.



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                  mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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                • Jerry Stephenson
                  Re: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?They are also on ebay from time to time. Drives warehouse is the seller and here is a link:
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Re: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?
                    They are also on ebay from time to time.  Drives warehouse is the seller and here is a link:
                     
                     
                    --Jerry
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:22 AM
                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?

                    What do these cost and where do you get them?

                    On 10/13/03 10:27 AM, "Jerry Stephenson" <stephejl@...> wrote:

                    Why the Mitsubishi vs the Hitachi?  I"ve heard they are very similar and the Hitachi has slightly better specs in that in the 3hp version, it isn't derated for using 1ph input.  I'm working toward the same decsion and I'm considering the Hitachi but want to know if I should go Mitusibishi instead.
                    Thanks, Jerry

                    BTW, I bought a 1.5hp baldor 3ph motor to replace my 2hp motor.  Haven't mounted it up yet so I can't say how I like it.  
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: gdl264 <mailto:GDL264@...>  
                    To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:54 AM
                    Subject: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?

                    Hello,
                    I've come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is
                    the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement. I'm
                    planning to go with a new 3 phase motor with a Mitsubishi s-500
                    series VFD sold on eBay.

                    Should I go with a 1.5 HP motor or a 2 HP? What motor would you
                    recommend (a link or Part # would be helpful).

                    In the ebay photo of the VFD it looks like it has a LED readout, does
                    it show RPM? What is the RPM range with the VFD?

                    For future reference would a VFD also work on a 3 phase Bridgeport
                    clone in place of a phase converter?
                    Gary


                    >Hi,

                    >I also had severe vibration with my JET RFD-18. (Same as RF-31) The
                    >2hp motor
                    >is junk! Replaced it with a 1-1/2 hp
                    >3-phase motor and Mitsubishi VFD. It is now vibration free
                    >throughout the speed
                    >ranges and has more than enough torque. I have not moved the belts
                    >in over a
                    >year, as it works fine down to 5Hz and up to 120 Hz.

                    >Dave


                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gdl264" <GDL264@a...> wrote:
                    > I recently bought a like new used 1998 RF-30. I have been working
                    on
                    > it to try and remove as much vibration as possible to reduce tool
                    > chatter etc. So far I have replaced the belts with with BX then
                    power
                    > twist, replaced the spindle bearings (running hot before) and the
                    > pulley bearings as well (the machine has sat in storage for several
                    > years and the grease was like wax). This evening I filled the stand
                    > with concrete (major improvement).
                    >
                    > I have been monitoring the progress by making cuts on a piece of
                    > aluminum and marking them for before after comparison (same cutter,
                    > same cut). I have also used a dial indicator mounted to the table
                    > with the needle against the rack sleeve. The indicator is an
                    > import .0005" with. The needle in the indicator "bounces" when the
                    > machine is running from vibration. Initially the needle was
                    > bouncing .010" and with all the improvements I've made I'm down to
                    > about .001" bounce. Also the chatter marks are beginning to
                    disappear.
                    >
                    > The machine has a 1ph 220 volt motor. I noticed another problem
                    when
                    > taking my dial "bounce" readings. When I shut off the motor it
                    makes
                    > an audible click (switch, relay?) when it winds down to about 1/3
                    > speed. When that happens the dial needle goes dead. I does the
                    exact
                    > same thing with the belts set at 2500 or 400. When it clicks the
                    > vibration disappears. I don't think anything is wrong with the
                    motor,
                    > it seems to run perfect otherwise.
                    >
                    > I was wondering if anyone has tried mounting thier motor on rubber
                    > mounts?
                    > If so what style of mounts did you use? I was considering the el
                    > cheapo route of drilling the holes oversize and using grommets,
                    > fender washers and a nylon jam nut unless there is a better way.
                    >
                    > Also has anyone tried setting a firm rubber pad & rubber isolated
                    > bolts between the machine base and the concrete filled stand? Would
                    > this further soak up vibration or would the cement base alone work
                    > best.
                    >
                    > Thanks for all the help so far, everyones imput as well as the
                    > archives have really helped speed me through this set up process.



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                    mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com



                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                     
                     
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                  • Corey
                    Gary, the LED readout on the Mitsu VFD is programmable, it can read out in Hz, or spindle rpm. To use the spindle rpm function, you tell the vfd how many rpm
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gary,
                      the LED readout on the Mitsu VFD is programmable, it can read out in Hz, or spindle rpm.  To use the spindle rpm function, you tell the vfd how many rpm the spindle spins at 60Hz, the VFD then calculates the rpm at different frequencies.  If you buy the optional VFD programmer module, you have an LCD readout as well.  You can display any number of parameters on either display.  A VFD doesn't have an rpm range, it has a frequency range.  The rpm will be dependant on the motor you use.  The VFD will typically be used from 5Hz to 120 Hz, so a 1750 rpm motor would have a range from 88rpm to 3500rpm.  A 3150rpm motor would have a range from 158rpm to 6300 rpm.  The limitations of the specific motor will determine if this full range is available or not, the VFD doesn't care.
                       
                      cheers,
                      c

                      gdl264 <GDL264@...> wrote:
                      Hello,
                      I've come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is
                      the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement. I'm
                      planning to go with a new 3 phase motor with a Mitsubishi s-500
                      series VFD sold on eBay.

                      Should I go with a 1.5 HP motor or a 2 HP? What motor would you
                      recommend (a link or Part # would be helpful).

                      In the ebay photo of the VFD it looks like it has a LED readout, does
                      it show RPM? What is the RPM range with the VFD?


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                    • gdl264
                      Corey, What model Size Mitsu VFD (S-520 1.5K or 2.2K) and what HP motor (1.5HP or 2HP) did you go with? There isn t that much difference in price so I d like
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Corey,
                        What model Size Mitsu VFD (S-520 1.5K or 2.2K) and what HP motor
                        (1.5HP or 2HP) did you go with? There isn't that much difference in
                        price so I'd like to get the best combination possible.

                        What belt position do you use or do you still switch them around even
                        with the VFD for additional torque or speed. What is considered the
                        Max safe speed with the VFD?

                        FYI, Enco offers USA motors as an option on thier Enco Mill/Drills
                        and they have USA (5/8" bore) pulleys for sale.

                        Gary

                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Corey <corey94945@y...> wrote:
                        > Gary,
                        > the LED readout on the Mitsu VFD is programmable, it can read out
                        in Hz, or spindle rpm. To use the spindle rpm function, you tell the
                        vfd how many rpm the spindle spins at 60Hz, the VFD then calculates
                        the rpm at different frequencies. If you buy the optional VFD
                        programmer module, you have an LCD readout as well. You can display
                        any number of parameters on either display. A VFD doesn't have an
                        rpm range, it has a frequency range. The rpm will be dependant on
                        the motor you use. The VFD will typically be used from 5Hz to 120
                        Hz, so a 1750 rpm motor would have a range from 88rpm to 3500rpm. A
                        3150rpm motor would have a range from 158rpm to 6300 rpm. The
                        limitations of the specific motor will determine if this full range
                        is available or not, the VFD doesn't care.
                        >
                        > cheers,
                        > c
                        >
                        > gdl264 <GDL264@a...> wrote:
                        > Hello,
                        > I've come to the conclusion that my original 1 ph 220 volt motor is
                        > the major source of my vibration problems and needs replacement.
                        I'm
                        > planning to go with a new 3 phase motor with a Mitsubishi s-500
                        > series VFD sold on eBay.
                        >
                        > Should I go with a 1.5 HP motor or a 2 HP? What motor would you
                        > recommend (a link or Part # would be helpful).
                        >
                        > In the ebay photo of the VFD it looks like it has a LED readout,
                        does
                        > it show RPM? What is the RPM range with the VFD?
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
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                      • Corey
                        Gary, mine is the Freqrol A200-1.5k-UL here s a link to one on Ebay so you can see how it looks:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 13, 2003
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                          Gary,
                          mine is the Freqrol A200-1.5k-UL here's a link to one on Ebay so you can see how it looks:
                           
                           
                          I'm actually using it on my Enco 8x36 knee mill (1-1/2hp) in the middle belt position, which I think is about 1200rpm, I rarely move the belt.  My Mill/drill is plain old 120v 1-ph.  I run my 8x36 from 30Hz to 120Hz, but the VFD will go higher and lower.  I just don't have that much confidence in the Chinese motor on the mill...  Generally 120Hz is the max for most motors, but some can't handle it, which is why you want to either research what the motor is rated for (ideal) or do what I do and be conservative.
                           
                          cheers,
                          c

                          gdl264 <GDL264@...> wrote:
                          Corey,
                          What model Size Mitsu VFD (S-520 1.5K or 2.2K) and what HP motor
                          (1.5HP or 2HP) did you go with? There isn't that much difference in
                          price so I'd like to get the best combination possible.

                          What belt position do you use or do you still switch them around even
                          with the VFD for additional torque or speed. What is considered the
                          Max safe speed with the VFD?

                          FYI, Enco offers USA motors as an option on thier Enco Mill/Drills
                          and they have USA (5/8" bore) pulleys for sale.

                          Gary


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                        • Marv Frankel
                          Guys, I ve been running the same Enco 8X36 mill, with a 2-speed, 1 1/2HP motor, driven by a Mitsubishi S-500 Series VFD, for over a year, and I can t remember
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 14, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Guys,
                                    I've been running the same Enco 8X36 mill, with a 2-speed, 1 1/2HP motor, driven by a Mitsubishi S-500 Series VFD, for over a year, and I can't remember moving the belt at all. I don't have the exact RPMs, but I cut by sound and feel. Someday, I might know what I'm doing.
                             
                            Marv Frankel
                            Los Angeles
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Corey
                            Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 11:10 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?

                            Gary,
                            mine is the Freqrol A200-1.5k-UL here's a link to one on Ebay so you can see how it looks:
                             
                             
                            I'm actually using it on my Enco 8x36 knee mill (1-1/2hp) in the middle belt position, which I think is about 1200rpm, I rarely move the belt.  My Mill/drill is plain old 120v 1-ph.  I run my 8x36 from 30Hz to 120Hz, but the VFD will go higher and lower.  I just don't have that much confidence in the Chinese motor on the mill...  Generally 120Hz is the max for most motors, but some can't handle it, which is why you want to either research what the motor is rated for (ideal) or do what I do and be conservative.
                             
                            cheers,
                            c

                            gdl264 <GDL264@...> wrote:
                            Corey,
                            What model Size Mitsu VFD (S-520 1.5K or 2.2K) and what HP motor
                            (1.5HP or 2HP) did you go with? There isn't that much difference in
                            price so I'd like to get the best combination possible.

                            What belt position do you use or do you still switch them around even
                            with the VFD for additional torque or speed. What is considered the
                            Max safe speed with the VFD?

                            FYI, Enco offers USA motors as an option on thier Enco Mill/Drills
                            and they have USA (5/8" bore) pulleys for sale.

                            Gary


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                          • trybestaug2002
                            Instead of just buying new motor, you might want to try balancing the motor yourself. Here s a link where a guy figured out how to do crankshaft balancing
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 8, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Instead of just buying new motor, you might want to try balancing
                              the motor yourself.

                              Here's a link where a guy figured out how to do crankshaft balancing
                              himself:

                              http://www.antiqueautoranch.com/montana500/septnewsletter/page4.html

                              Pulled my motor apart. The cooling fan's static balance is way
                              off. It does have a hunk of counter wieght plastic on other side of
                              the securing screw, but its not enough. (use a lawn mower blade
                              balancer). The centrifugal switch seems to have two probs. There
                              is no counter wieght for its set screw, and the id of the mount is
                              much bigger than the od of the motor shaft. (Could use three set
                              screws 120 deg apart ?) The pully also looks suspicious.

                              You could of course just buy a usa motor, but thought you might be
                              up for some fun... :-)

                              Dave



                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "David P. Best" <dbest@s...>
                              wrote:
                              > Sounds to me like the armature on the motor is seriously thrown
                              out of
                              > balance because of winding differences. Put on a US made motor
                              from
                              > some other machine and see if it stops vibrating. Then you'll
                              know if
                              > you should buy a new motor.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > David
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > It is interesting to read your description of what you have done
                              > because I did most of the same things. I replaced the belts with
                              > Powertwist belts, then notched belts, replaced the bearings (they
                              were
                              > running hot at the top speed), filled the stand (which is bolted to
                              > the floor) with bags of sand to dampen vibration, plus I put
                              rubber
                              > under the motor mounts and braced the column to the wall and
                              ceiling
                              > at three points using steel tubing and angle iron. I observed
                              exactly
                              > same thing with the motor: as soon as you turn off the power, the
                              > vibration immediately diminishes to nothing.
                              >
                              > Bracing the top of the column didn't really reduce the vibration
                              very
                              > much when the machine was just idling, but it does allow me to take
                              > heavier cuts without as much complaint. The rubber mounts under the
                              > motor also did not have a really noticeable effect. I have
                              considered
                              > what the use of a 3 phase motor might have and by adding a VFD the
                              > ability to change speed thereby avoiding certain speeds that cause
                              > sympathetic vibration. The cost of the motor and VFD would be be
                              about
                              > $400 so I haven't tried that yet.
                              >
                              > My advice would be to just use the machine. You have done a good
                              job
                              > of reducing the vibration and you might find, as I have, that the
                              > machine is still quite useful even if it is not perfect. If you
                              want
                              > something closer to perfect, start saving for a Bridgeport or
                              clone.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gdl264" <GDL264@a...> wrote:
                              > > I recently bought a like new used 1998 RF-30. I have been
                              working on
                              > > it to try and remove as much vibration as possible to reduce
                              tool
                              > > chatter etc. So far I have replaced the belts with with BX then
                              power
                              > > twist, replaced the spindle bearings (running hot before) and
                              the
                              > > pulley bearings as well (the machine has sat in storage for
                              several
                              > > years and the grease was like wax). This evening I filled the
                              stand
                              > > with concrete (major improvement).
                              > >
                              > > I have been monitoring the progress by making cuts on a piece of
                              > > aluminum and marking them for before after comparison (same
                              cutter,
                              > > same cut). I have also used a dial indicator mounted to the
                              table
                              > > with the needle against the rack sleeve. The indicator is an
                              > > import .0005" with. The needle in the indicator "bounces" when
                              the
                              > > machine is running from vibration. Initially the needle was
                              > > bouncing .010" and with all the improvements I've made I'm down
                              to
                              > > about .001" bounce. Also the chatter marks are beginning to
                              disappear.
                              > >
                              > > The machine has a 1ph 220 volt motor. I noticed another problem
                              when
                              > > taking my dial "bounce" readings. When I shut off the motor it
                              makes
                              > > an audible click (switch, relay?) when it winds down to about
                              1/3
                              > > speed. When that happens the dial needle goes dead. I does the
                              exact
                              > > same thing with the belts set at 2500 or 400. When it clicks the
                              > > vibration disappears. I don't think anything is wrong with the
                              motor,
                              > > it seems to run perfect otherwise.
                              > >
                              > > I was wondering if anyone has tried mounting thier motor on
                              rubber
                              > > mounts?
                              > > If so what style of mounts did you use? I was considering the el
                              > > cheapo route of drilling the holes oversize and using grommets,
                              > > fender washers and a nylon jam nut unless there is a better way.
                              > >
                              > > Also has anyone tried setting a firm rubber pad & rubber
                              isolated
                              > > bolts between the machine base and the concrete filled stand?
                              Would
                              > > this further soak up vibration or would the cement base alone
                              work
                              > > best.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks for all the help so far, everyones imput as well as the
                              > > archives have really helped speed me through this set up process.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • Jerry Stephenson
                              I took apart a chinese motor on a bandsaw and found poor electrical joints and poor mechanical joints. By replacing the screws that held it together and
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 8, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I took apart a chinese motor on a bandsaw and found poor electrical joints and poor mechanical joints.  By replacing the screws that held it together and tightening them up more, I got the frame properly aligned and eliminated almost all the vibration.  However, I couldn't make it quit running hot so I replaced it with a USA motor that someone gave me.  --Jerry
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 5:42 PM
                                Subject: [mill_drill] Re: RF-30 motor vibration?

                                Instead of just buying new motor, you might want to try balancing
                                the motor yourself.

                                Here's a link where a guy figured out how to do crankshaft balancing
                                himself:

                                http://www.antiqueautoranch.com/montana500/septnewsletter/page4.html

                                Pulled my motor apart.  The cooling fan's static balance is way
                                off.  It does have a hunk of counter wieght plastic on other side of
                                the securing screw, but its not enough.  (use a lawn mower blade
                                balancer).  The centrifugal switch seems to have two probs.  There
                                is no counter wieght for its set screw, and the id of the mount is
                                much bigger than the od of the motor shaft.  (Could use three set
                                screws 120 deg apart ?)  The pully also looks suspicious.

                                You could of course just buy a usa motor, but thought you might be
                                up for some fun... :-)

                                Dave



                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "David P. Best" <dbest@s...>
                                wrote:
                                > Sounds to me like the armature on the motor is seriously thrown
                                out of
                                > balance because of winding differences.  Put on a US made motor
                                from
                                > some other machine and see if it stops vibrating.  Then you'll
                                know if
                                > you should buy a new motor.
                                >

                                >
                                > David
                                >

                                >
                                > It is interesting to read your description of what you have done
                                > because I did most of the same things. I replaced the belts with
                                > Powertwist belts, then notched belts, replaced the bearings (they
                                were
                                > running hot at the top speed), filled the stand (which is bolted to
                                > the floor) with bags of sand to dampen  vibration, plus I put
                                rubber
                                > under the motor mounts and braced the column to the wall and
                                ceiling
                                > at three points using steel tubing and angle iron. I observed
                                exactly
                                > same thing with the motor: as soon as you turn off the power, the
                                > vibration immediately diminishes to nothing.
                                >
                                > Bracing the top of the column didn't really reduce the vibration
                                very
                                > much when the machine was just idling, but it does allow me to take
                                > heavier cuts without as much complaint. The rubber mounts under the
                                > motor also did not have a really noticeable effect. I have
                                considered
                                > what the use of a 3 phase motor might have and by adding a VFD the
                                > ability to change speed thereby avoiding certain speeds that cause
                                > sympathetic vibration. The cost of the motor and VFD would be be
                                about
                                > $400 so I haven't tried that yet.
                                >
                                > My advice would be to just use the machine. You have done a good
                                job
                                > of reducing the vibration and you might find, as I have, that the
                                > machine is still quite useful even if it is not perfect. If you
                                want
                                > something closer to perfect, start saving for a Bridgeport or
                                clone.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gdl264" <GDL264@a...> wrote:
                                > > I recently bought a like new used 1998 RF-30. I have been
                                working on
                                > > it to try and remove as much vibration as possible to reduce
                                tool
                                > > chatter etc. So far I have replaced the belts with with BX then
                                power
                                > > twist, replaced the spindle bearings (running hot before) and
                                the
                                > > pulley bearings as well (the machine has sat in storage for
                                several
                                > > years and the grease was like wax). This evening I filled the
                                stand
                                > > with concrete (major improvement).
                                > >
                                > > I have been monitoring the progress by making cuts on a piece of
                                > > aluminum and marking them for before after comparison (same
                                cutter,
                                > > same cut). I have also used a dial indicator mounted to the
                                table
                                > > with the needle against the rack sleeve. The indicator is an
                                > > import .0005" with. The needle in the indicator "bounces" when
                                the
                                > > machine is running from vibration. Initially the needle was
                                > > bouncing .010" and with all the improvements I've made I'm down
                                to
                                > > about .001" bounce. Also the chatter marks are beginning to
                                disappear.
                                > >
                                > > The machine has a 1ph 220 volt motor. I noticed another problem
                                when
                                > > taking my dial "bounce" readings. When I shut off the motor it
                                makes
                                > > an audible click (switch, relay?) when it winds down to about
                                1/3
                                > > speed. When that happens the dial needle goes dead. I does the
                                exact
                                > > same thing with the belts set at 2500 or 400. When it clicks the
                                > > vibration disappears. I don't think anything is wrong with the
                                motor,
                                > > it seems to run perfect otherwise.
                                > >
                                > > I was wondering if anyone has tried mounting thier motor on
                                rubber
                                > > mounts?
                                > > If so what style of mounts did you use? I was considering the el
                                > > cheapo route of drilling the holes oversize and using grommets,
                                > > fender washers and a nylon jam nut unless there is a better way.
                                > >
                                > > Also has anyone tried setting a firm rubber pad & rubber
                                isolated
                                > > bolts between the machine base and the concrete filled stand?
                                Would
                                > > this further soak up vibration or would the cement base alone
                                work
                                > > best.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks for all the help so far, everyones imput as well as the
                                > > archives have really helped speed me through this set up process.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                >
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