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OffTopic: Mini coax - RG174 + SSMB connectors

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  • Scott Dunt
    I know totally NON milling, but I was thinking that maybe Jerry Durant might have dabbled in this or Rick Sparber might have some advice on assembling WiFi -
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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      I know totally NON milling, but I was thinking that maybe Jerry Durant
      might have dabbled in this or Rick Sparber might have some advice on
      assembling WiFi - sub miniature coax cable connectors.

      I'm making some cables for personal use, one off one time deal. And the
      cables have SSMB connectors on them and RG 174 coax cable. To give an
      idea of how SMALL this stuff is, the center conductor of the cable is
      .010 the stripped length for the center conductor is .050 And I am
      supposed to somehow solder the wire in place INSIDE of a 90 degree right
      angle connector at measures .150 on the OD, the hole to work through is
      like .090, etc.

      The parts are SO small, that I am looking at them under a microscope
      with 15x lenses. This looks like work for dental picks. How or where can
      I get a soldering iron tip small enough to work that?

      I am almost wondering if I can tin the end of the wire, and glue it into
      place? IN many ways the ground braid is what mechanically holds the
      wire in place, it uses a crimp ferrule, etc.

      Any one play with this kind of stuff before? What worked? What failed?

      --
      Scott Dunt
    • Jerry Durand
      We have two soldering irons on our bench, a Hakko FX-888 and an old MetCal, and a Hakko 851 hot air pencil. You can get fine tips for either iron but it s
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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        We have two soldering irons on our bench, a Hakko FX-888 and an old
        MetCal, and a Hakko 851 hot air pencil. You can get fine tips for
        either iron but it's hard to get enough heat down there to melt the solder.

        A few tricks (don't tell anyone, inside secrets):

        0) PREHEAT the item to be soldered, don't melt any plastic but every
        degree you get it closer to your solder melting makes it that much
        easier to solder. We have a hot air platform that PC boards sit on, can
        easily get the PC board to 400F.

        1) There are conductive glues out there. NOT cheap, but they do work.

        2) Use an ultra low temperature alloy, like you get in the CHIP QUIK kits.

        On 08/16/2014 09:49 AM, Scott Dunt scott.dunt@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
        > I know totally NON milling, but I was thinking that maybe Jerry Durant
        > might have dabbled in this or Rick Sparber might have some advice on
        > assembling WiFi - sub miniature coax cable connectors.
        >
        > I'm making some cables for personal use, one off one time deal. And the
        > cables have SSMB connectors on them and RG 174 coax cable. To give an
        > idea of how SMALL this stuff is, the center conductor of the cable is
        > .010 the stripped length for the center conductor is .050 And I am
        > supposed to somehow solder the wire in place INSIDE of a 90 degree right
        > angle connector at measures .150 on the OD, the hole to work through is
        > like .090, etc.
        >
        > The parts are SO small, that I am looking at them under a microscope
        > with 15x lenses. This looks like work for dental picks. How or where can
        > I get a soldering iron tip small enough to work that?
        >
        > I am almost wondering if I can tin the end of the wire, and glue it into
        > place? IN many ways the ground braid is what mechanically holds the
        > wire in place, it uses a crimp ferrule, etc.
        >
        > Any one play with this kind of stuff before? What worked? What failed?
        >

        --
        Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
        tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
        Skype: jerrydurand
      • Curt Wuollet
        Without seeing the connector, it s kinda hard to visualize. On other solder coax connectors, the pin pushes out so you can solder it and then install it. Or
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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          Without seeing the connector, it's kinda hard to visualize. On other solder coax connectors,
          the pin pushes out so you can solder it and then install it. Or the connector comes apart enough
          so that it's reasonable to do. I would check any assembly drawings you can find. The big elex outfits
          like newark, digikey, etc. usually provide web access to the drawings. I'm sure there's a relatively easy
          way because assembly time costs money. And no, the glue won't fly.

          Regards

          cww

          On 08/16/2014 11:49 AM, Scott Dunt scott.dunt@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
           

          I know totally NON milling, but I was thinking that maybe Jerry Durant
          might have dabbled in this or Rick Sparber might have some advice on
          assembling WiFi - sub miniature coax cable connectors.

          I'm making some cables for personal use, one off one time deal. And the
          cables have SSMB connectors on them and RG 174 coax cable. To give an
          idea of how SMALL this stuff is, the center conductor of the cable is
          .010 the stripped length for the center conductor is .050 And I am
          supposed to somehow solder the wire in place INSIDE of a 90 degree right
          angle connector at measures .150 on the OD, the hole to work through is
          like .090, etc.

          The parts are SO small, that I am looking at them under a microscope
          with 15x lenses. This looks like work for dental picks. How or where can
          I get a soldering iron tip small enough to work that?

          I am almost wondering if I can tin the end of the wire, and glue it into
          place? IN many ways the ground braid is what mechanically holds the
          wire in place, it uses a crimp ferrule, etc.

          Any one play with this kind of stuff before? What worked? What failed?

          --
          Scott Dunt


        • Curt Wuollet
          PS google antex for a soldering iron. cww
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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            PS google antex for a soldering iron.

            cww

            On 08/16/2014 11:49 AM, Scott Dunt scott.dunt@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
             

            I know totally NON milling, but I was thinking that maybe Jerry Durant
            might have dabbled in this or Rick Sparber might have some advice on
            assembling WiFi - sub miniature coax cable connectors.

            I'm making some cables for personal use, one off one time deal. And the
            cables have SSMB connectors on them and RG 174 coax cable. To give an
            idea of how SMALL this stuff is, the center conductor of the cable is
            .010 the stripped length for the center conductor is .050 And I am
            supposed to somehow solder the wire in place INSIDE of a 90 degree right
            angle connector at measures .150 on the OD, the hole to work through is
            like .090, etc.

            The parts are SO small, that I am looking at them under a microscope
            with 15x lenses. This looks like work for dental picks. How or where can
            I get a soldering iron tip small enough to work that?

            I am almost wondering if I can tin the end of the wire, and glue it into
            place? IN many ways the ground braid is what mechanically holds the
            wire in place, it uses a crimp ferrule, etc.

            Any one play with this kind of stuff before? What worked? What failed?

            --
            Scott Dunt


          • Jerry Durand
            Agree on them coming apart, not sure why you don t like the glue. The silver filled stuff is at least as conductive as lead-based solder. On 08/16/2014 10:06
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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              Agree on them coming apart, not sure why you don't like the glue.  The silver filled stuff is at least as conductive as lead-based solder.

              On 08/16/2014 10:06 AM, Curt Wuollet wideopen1@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
              Without seeing the connector, it's kinda hard to visualize. On other solder coax connectors,
              the pin pushes out so you can solder it and then install it. Or the connector comes apart enough
              so that it's reasonable to do. I would check any assembly drawings you can find. The big elex outfits
              like newark, digikey, etc. usually provide web access to the drawings. I'm sure there's a relatively easy
              way because assembly time costs money. And no, the glue won't fly.

              Regards

              cww

              -- 
              Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
              tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
              Skype:  jerrydurand 
              
            • Curt Wuollet
              Conductivity isn t the whole picture. When you flux, heat, and solder the joint is clean and the solder actually alloys with the base metals. With the
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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                Conductivity isn't the whole picture. When you flux, heat, and solder the joint is clean and the solder actually alloys with the base metals. With the conductive (silver filled) epoxies you are binding one of the most reactive metals with no cleaning to break up intermetallics, to a dissimilar metal in the presence of strong amines, gases, and likely some water.  I've never seen a properly made solder joint peel or shear below the yield point of the solder or rectify due to oxidation. And a bad solder joint looks like a bad solder joint.  I've seen the epoxies simply not stick (no mandate to find out why) or worse fall off at some later time.  They are way cool when they work though, and solve some difficult problems like connecting to thin films or fragile of meltable substrates.

                Or maybe I'm just old school :^)

                Regards

                cww

                On 08/16/2014 12:10 PM, Jerry Durand jdurand@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                 

                Agree on them coming apart, not sure why you don't like the glue.  The silver filled stuff is at least as conductive as lead-based solder.

                On 08/16/2014 10:06 AM, Curt Wuollet wideopen1@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:

                Without seeing the connector, it's kinda hard to visualize. On other solder coax connectors,
                the pin pushes out so you can solder it and then install it. Or the connector comes apart enough
                so that it's reasonable to do. I would check any assembly drawings you can find. The big elex outfits
                like newark, digikey, etc. usually provide web access to the drawings. I'm sure there's a relatively easy
                way because assembly time costs money. And no, the glue won't fly.

                Regards

                cww

                -- 
                Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                Skype:  jerrydurand 
                

              • Scott Dunt
                This is a similar connector : http://www.ebay.com/itm/291198537917 The problem is the right angle type.. The center conductor has to be soldered in side the
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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                  This is a similar connector : http://www.ebay.com/itm/291198537917

                  The problem is the right angle type.. The center conductor has to be soldered in side the .090 id hole in the back of the connector, then that cap is pressed into place..

                  Scott Dunt
                  
                  On 08/16/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Wuollet wideopen1@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                   

                  Without seeing the connector, it's kinda hard to visualize. On other solder coax connectors,
                  the pin pushes out so you can solder it and then install it. Or the connector comes apart enough
                  so that it's reasonable to do. I would check any assembly drawings you can find. The big elex outfits
                  like newark, digikey, etc. usually provide web access to the drawings. I'm sure there's a relatively easy
                  way because assembly time costs money. And no, the glue won't fly.

                  Regards

                  cww

                  On 08/16/2014 11:49 AM, Scott Dunt scott.dunt@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                   

                  I know totally NON milling, but I was thinking that maybe Jerry Durant
                  might have dabbled in this or Rick Sparber might have some advice on
                  assembling WiFi - sub miniature coax cable connectors.

                  I'm making some cables for personal use, one off one time deal. And the
                  cables have SSMB connectors on them and RG 174 coax cable. To give an
                  idea of how SMALL this stuff is, the center conductor of the cable is
                  .010 the stripped length for the center conductor is .050 And I am
                  supposed to somehow solder the wire in place INSIDE of a 90 degree right
                  angle connector at measures .150 on the OD, the hole to work through is
                  like .090, etc.

                  The parts are SO small, that I am looking at them under a microscope
                  with 15x lenses. This looks like work for dental picks. How or where can
                  I get a soldering iron tip small enough to work that?

                  I am almost wondering if I can tin the end of the wire, and glue it into
                  place? IN many ways the ground braid is what mechanically holds the
                  wire in place, it uses a crimp ferrule, etc.

                  Any one play with this kind of stuff before? What worked? What failed?

                  --
                  Scott Dunt



                • Curt Wuollet
                  I wonder if you aren t supposed to insert the wire, which looks difficult enough, and crimp the pin connection, say with a pair of needlenose pliers. It
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 16, 2014
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                    I wonder if you aren't supposed to insert the wire, which looks difficult enough, and crimp the pin connection, say with a pair of needlenose pliers. It doesn't look like they were made to solder. at least not easily. I'd find a similar connector from ampehenol or the like and see how they propose to do it.

                    Regards

                    cww

                    On 08/16/2014 05:25 PM, Scott Dunt scott.dunt@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                     

                    This is a similar connector : http://www.ebay.com/itm/291198537917

                    The problem is the right angle type.. The center conductor has to be soldered in side the .090 id hole in the back of the connector, then that cap is pressed into place..

                    Scott Dunt
                    
                    On 08/16/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Wuollet wideopen1@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                     

                    Without seeing the connector, it's kinda hard to visualize. On other solder coax connectors,
                    the pin pushes out so you can solder it and then install it. Or the connector comes apart enough
                    so that it's reasonable to do. I would check any assembly drawings you can find. The big elex outfits
                    like newark, digikey, etc. usually provide web access to the drawings. I'm sure there's a relatively easy
                    way because assembly time costs money. And no, the glue won't fly.

                    Regards

                    cww

                    On 08/16/2014 11:49 AM, Scott Dunt scott.dunt@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                     

                    I know totally NON milling, but I was thinking that maybe Jerry Durant
                    might have dabbled in this or Rick Sparber might have some advice on
                    assembling WiFi - sub miniature coax cable connectors.

                    I'm making some cables for personal use, one off one time deal. And the
                    cables have SSMB connectors on them and RG 174 coax cable. To give an
                    idea of how SMALL this stuff is, the center conductor of the cable is
                    .010 the stripped length for the center conductor is .050 And I am
                    supposed to somehow solder the wire in place INSIDE of a 90 degree right
                    angle connector at measures .150 on the OD, the hole to work through is
                    like .090, etc.

                    The parts are SO small, that I am looking at them under a microscope
                    with 15x lenses. This looks like work for dental picks. How or where can
                    I get a soldering iron tip small enough to work that?

                    I am almost wondering if I can tin the end of the wire, and glue it into
                    place? IN many ways the ground braid is what mechanically holds the
                    wire in place, it uses a crimp ferrule, etc.

                    Any one play with this kind of stuff before? What worked? What failed?

                    --
                    Scott Dunt




                  • Dave Seiter
                    I picked up one of those cheap Harbor Freight 4 rotary tables a while back (used), and it worked well for a few small projects, but today the table started
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 17, 2014
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                      I picked up one of those cheap Harbor Freight 4" rotary tables a while back (used), and it worked well for a few small projects, but today the table started turning by itself (the hand wheel was obviously no longer connected).  I took it apart and found that the ring gear was spinning on it's shaft; the pin that was driven through the gear and into the table (it's parallel to the shaft) had sheared off.  The pin was probably mild steel.  If I can remove the rest of the pin, I'll replace it with something like a rollpin, but I was thinking about using a bunch of red loctite to keep the ring in place.  

                      Thoughts?

                      -Dave
                    • n5kzw
                      I have an iron that has a tip diameter 0.07 . It is labeled Antec Precision Model C . When working with SMT devices, I sonetimes cut a chisel tip on the end
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 17, 2014
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                        I have an iron that has a tip diameter 0.07".  It is labeled "Antec Precision Model C".  When working with SMT devices, I sonetimes cut a chisel tip on the end of a wire and wrap it tightly around the tip of a larger iron to reach in small places.HTH,Ed - N5KZW
                      • Jerry Durand
                        The smallest parts I ve been able to hand solder are circled in this picture http://interstellar.com/temp/Tiny_parts.png They re 0201 resistors, about 0.020
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 17, 2014
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                          The smallest parts I've been able to hand solder are circled in this picture

                          http://interstellar.com/temp/Tiny_parts.png

                          They're "0201" resistors, about 0.020" long by 0.010" wide.

                          I would not want to have to do many of these.

                          The normal size we design with for hand soldering are 0603, but can do an occasional 0402 when there's not a large size available.

                          That board is an old VoIP board we did a long time ago for telephone central offices.

                          On 08/17/2014 09:45 PM, n5kzw@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                          I have an iron that has a tip diameter 0.07".  It is labeled "Antec Precision Model C".  When working with SMT devices, I sonetimes cut a chisel tip on the end of a wire and wrap it tightly around the tip of a larger iron to reach in small places.HTH,Ed - N5KZW

                          -- 
                          Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                          tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                          Skype:  jerrydurand
                        • Bill
                          I d be hesitant to do anything permanent. Stay with mild steel or stainless, perhaps.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 17, 2014
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                            I'd be hesitant to do anything permanent. Stay with mild steel or stainless, perhaps.

                            On 8/17/2014 3:33 PM, Dave Seiter d.seiter@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                             
                            I picked up one of those cheap Harbor Freight 4" rotary tables a while back (used), and it worked well for a few small projects, but today the table started turning by itself (the hand wheel was obviously no longer connected).  I took it apart and found that the ring gear was spinning on it's shaft; the pin that was driven through the gear and into the table (it's parallel to the shaft) had sheared off.  The pin was probably mild steel.  If I can remove the rest of the pin, I'll replace it with something like a rollpin, but I was thinking about using a bunch of red loctite to keep the ring in place.  

                            Thoughts?

                            -Dave

                          • Scott Dunt
                            Chemical locking agents are good things, especially since heating the parts up will burn the loctite out of the joint so you can take it apart. I use the whole
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 18, 2014
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                              Chemical locking agents are good things, especially since heating the parts up will burn the loctite out of the joint so you can take it apart. I use the whole variety green, blue, red and gap filling #660 on projects all of the time.

                              Sounds like a belt and suspenders approach to me, which is my usual M.O.
                              Scott Dunt
                              
                              On 08/18/2014 01:49 AM, Bill NPWBill@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                               

                              I'd be hesitant to do anything permanent. Stay with mild steel or stainless, perhaps.

                              On 8/17/2014 3:33 PM, Dave Seiter d.seiter@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                               
                              I picked up one of those cheap Harbor Freight 4" rotary tables a while back (used), and it worked well for a few small projects, but today the table started turning by itself (the hand wheel was obviously no longer connected).  I took it apart and found that the ring gear was spinning on it's shaft; the pin that was driven through the gear and into the table (it's parallel to the shaft) had sheared off.  The pin was probably mild steel.  If I can remove the rest of the pin, I'll replace it with something like a rollpin, but I was thinking about using a bunch of red loctite to keep the ring in place.  

                              Thoughts?

                              -Dave


                          • Dave Seiter
                            I ve never used much loctite, but I like the fact that it s reversible (with heat), so I thought I d give it a shot.  The original pin was reallll soft- it
                            Message 14 of 15 , Aug 18, 2014
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                              I've never used much loctite, but I like the fact that it's reversible (with heat), so I thought I'd give it a shot.  The original pin was reallll soft- it could have been a piece of old coat hanger, but it also looked original.  Tonight we see how well it worked.

                              -Dave


                              From: "Scott Dunt scott.dunt@... [MILL_DRILL]" <MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com>
                              To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 5:53 AM
                              Subject: Re: [MILL_DRILL] Repairing one of those cheap rotary tables



                              Chemical locking agents are good things, especially since heating the parts up will burn the loctite out of the joint so you can take it apart. I use the whole variety green, blue, red and gap filling #660 on projects all of the time.

                              Sounds like a belt and suspenders approach to me, which is my usual M.O.
                              Scott Dunt
                              
                              On 08/18/2014 01:49 AM, Bill NPWBill@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                               
                              I'd be hesitant to do anything permanent. Stay with mild steel or stainless, perhaps.

                              On 8/17/2014 3:33 PM, Dave Seiter d.seiter@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                               
                              I picked up one of those cheap Harbor Freight 4" rotary tables a while back (used), and it worked well for a few small projects, but today the table started turning by itself (the hand wheel was obviously no longer connected).  I took it apart and found that the ring gear was spinning on it's shaft; the pin that was driven through the gear and into the table (it's parallel to the shaft) had sheared off.  The pin was probably mild steel.  If I can remove the rest of the pin, I'll replace it with something like a rollpin, but I was thinking about using a bunch of red loctite to keep the ring in place.  

                              Thoughts?

                              -Dave






                            • Glenn N
                              I did those with soldering tweezers. You just get everything together with the solder in place and step on the foot switch. ... From: Scott Dunt
                              Message 15 of 15 , Aug 18, 2014
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                                I did those with soldering tweezers.  You just get everything together with the solder in place and step on the foot switch. 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:25 PM
                                Subject: Re: [MILL_DRILL] OffTopic: Mini coax - RG174 + SSMB connectors

                                 

                                This is a similar connector : http://www.ebay.com/itm/291198537917

                                The problem is the right angle type.. The center conductor has to be soldered in side the .090 id hole in the back of the connector, then that cap is pressed into place..

                                Scott Dunt
                                
                                On 08/16/2014 12:06 PM, Curt Wuollet wideopen1@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                                 

                                <SNIP>
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