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how is that done question

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  • Jerry Durand
    I was looking at the frame of an 1858 Remington replica and notice some square edges down inside the frame, mainly the hole for the hammer. So, since it
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
      I was looking at the frame of an 1858 Remington replica and notice some
      square edges down inside the frame, mainly the hole for the hammer.

      So, since it doesn't go all the way through, how do you cut a square
      hole? Maybe a bottoming broach or something?

      --
      Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
      tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
      Skype: jerrydurand
    • paulguenter@att.net
      Jerry there are no bottoming broaches. A broach has to go all the way thrue the item your braching ( like sprocket hub. If you have a amall square hole with a
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
        Jerry there are no bottoming broaches. A broach has to go all the way thrue the item your braching ( like sprocket hub. If you have a amall square hole with a bottom there are like stamping tools a large hole you could machine on the turn table on your mill actully there are a lot of was it could be done depending on the work piece
        GP

        --------------------------------------------
        On Wed, 7/23/14, Jerry Durand jdurand@... [MILL_DRILL] <MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        Subject: [MILL_DRILL] how is that done question
        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2014, 3:23 PM


         









        I was looking at the frame of an 1858 Remington
        replica and notice some

        square edges down inside the frame, mainly the hole for the
        hammer.



        So, since it doesn't go all the way through, how do you
        cut a square

        hole? Maybe a bottoming broach or something?



        --

        Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.
        www.interstellar.com

        tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886

        Skype: jerrydurand













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      • Jerry Durand
        HAND, not hammer. On 07/23/2014 12:23 PM, Jerry Durand jdurand@interstellar.com ... -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com tel: +1
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
          HAND, not hammer.

          On 07/23/2014 12:23 PM, Jerry Durand jdurand@...
          [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
          > I was looking at the frame of an 1858 Remington replica and notice some
          > square edges down inside the frame, mainly the hole for the hammer.
          >
          > So, since it doesn't go all the way through, how do you cut a square
          > hole? Maybe a bottoming broach or something?
          >

          --
          Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
          tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
          Skype: jerrydurand
        • Corey Renner
          Broaches do not always go the whole way through. Rotary broaching is used to make the female hex s on SHCS s and they don t go all the way through. cheers, c
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
            Broaches do not always go the whole way through.  Rotary broaching is used to make the female hex's on SHCS's and they don't go all the way through.

            cheers,
            c



            On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Jerry Durand jdurand@... [MILL_DRILL] <MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
             

            HAND, not hammer.

            On 07/23/2014 12:23 PM, Jerry Durand jdurand@...


            [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
            > I was looking at the frame of an 1858 Remington replica and notice some
            > square edges down inside the frame, mainly the hole for the hammer.
            >
            > So, since it doesn't go all the way through, how do you cut a square
            > hole? Maybe a bottoming broach or something?
            >

            --
            Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
            tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
            Skype: jerrydurand


          • markknx
            Corey, Not ahving seen the hole Jerry is talking about I still must assume you to be correct in how the hole was produced. I built a rotary broach for my
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014

              Corey,

              Not ahving seen the hole Jerry is talking about I still must assume you to be correct in how the hole was produced. I built a rotary broach for  my lathe but I have not yet made one for the mil.

            • Corey Renner
              I haven t seen the hole either so I m not advancing a guess on how it was made, I m just saying that the statement there are no bottoming broaches isn t
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
                I haven't seen the hole either so I'm not advancing a guess on how it was made, I'm just saying that the statement "there are no bottoming broaches" isn't quite true.

                cheers,
                c




                On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM, mayo3013@... [MILL_DRILL] <MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                 

                Corey,

                Not ahving seen the hole Jerry is talking about I still must assume you to be correct in how the hole was produced. I built a rotary broach for  my lathe but I have not yet made one for the mil.


              • CS Mo
                Probably not what was used in Jerry s replica, but I really want one of these: --CS
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
                  Probably not what was used in Jerry's replica, but I really want one of these:

                  <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALiqAXiTQBg>

                  --CS

                  >I haven't seen the hole either so I'm not advancing a guess on how it was
                  >made, I'm just saying that the statement "there are no bottoming broaches"
                  >isn't quite true.
                  >
                  >cheers,
                  >c
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Blog (updated finally):
                  >http://coreyrenner.tumblr.com/
                  >
                  >YouTube Channel:
                  >http://www.youtube.com/user/vandal968
                  >
                  >
                  >On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 1:42 PM, mayo3013@... [MILL_DRILL] <
                  >MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Corey,
                  >>
                  >> Not ahving seen the hole Jerry is talking about I still must assume you to
                  >> be correct in how the hole was produced. I built a rotary broach for my
                  >> lathe but I have not yet made one for the mil.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                • Jerome Kimberlin
                  ... It s possible to do it that way, but they don t because it s too slow. SHCSs are made the usual way - in a cold header. The hex is just part of the header
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
                    On 7/23/2014 1:18 PM, Corey Renner vandal968@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                    Broaches do not always go the whole way through.  Rotary broaching is used to make the female hex's on SHCS's and they don't go all the way through.


                    It's possible to do it that way, but they don't because it's too slow.  SHCSs are made the usual way - in a cold header.  The hex is just part of the header die sets.

                    JerryK
                  • Jerry Durand
                    However it was done, something like it had to be done in 1858 in mass production. :) I don t have a picture looking up into the frame, but I found this on the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
                    However it was done, something like it had to be done in 1858 in mass
                    production. :)

                    I don't have a picture looking up into the frame, but I found this on
                    the web and can give an idea from here:

                    http://www.alliancelink.com/srrs/articles/images/image31.jpg

                    The thing in towards the bottom of the picture is the hand. It attaches
                    to the bottom of the hammer (seen sticking out of the bottom of the
                    frame, the bit with the threaded hole and the notches on it) and the
                    whole assembly is slid up. The spring on the hand rides on the right
                    side of the notch seen. That notch tapers down and there's a slot on
                    the left side of it at the top that lets the top-left point of the hand
                    stick through into the open area seen to the left in the top of the picture.

                    Note that the frame is made out of a solid piece of metal, steel or brass.

                    I've attached a picture that shows the opening at the top of the tapered
                    rectangular hole with the hand visible at the very bottom of it.



                    On 07/23/2014 01:57 PM, 'CS Mo' cs@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                    > Probably not what was used in Jerry's replica, but I really want one of these:
                    >
                    > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALiqAXiTQBg>
                    >
                    > --CS
                    >

                    --
                    Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
                    tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                    Skype: jerrydurand
                  • markknx
                    Rotary broach probably wouldn t work as it would have to work at a right angle. The hole is blind, right? Couldit be casted in?
                    Message 10 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
                      Rotary broach probably wouldn't work as it would have to work at a right angle. The hole is blind, right? Couldit be casted in?
                    • Terry Coombs
                      ... Nope , it s cut - with what I don t know , but I have 2 of those replicas and I know exactly what he s talking about . But as someone said , this was done
                      Message 11 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
                        mayo3013@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                        > Rotary broach probably wouldn't work as it would have to work at a
                        > right angle. The hole is blind, right? Couldit be casted in?

                        Nope , it's cut - with what I don't know , but I have 2 of those replicas
                        and I know exactly what he's talking about . But as someone said , this was
                        done in mass production in 1858 so ...

                        Snag
                      • markknx
                        I don t think it,s a blind hole. I think this because the hand? that comes up to move the cylinderhas to come through from the back. I m thinking if you take
                        Message 12 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014

                          I don't think it,s a blind hole. I think this because the hand? that comes up to move the cylinderhas to come through from the back. I'm thinking if you take the side plate off you will see the slot goes through. then it may have been done on a horizontal mill and then broached or filed to cleen up the ends. 


                          Mark

                        • Terry Coombs
                          ... There is no sideplate , this is a solid piece of steel . Snag
                          Message 13 of 17 , Jul 23, 2014
                            mayo3013@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:
                            > I don't think it,s a blind hole. I think this because the hand? that
                            > comes up to move the cylinderhas to come through from the back. I'm
                            > thinking if you take the side plate off you will see the slot goes
                            > through. then it may have been done on a horizontal mill and then
                            > broached or filed to cleen up the ends.
                            >
                            >
                            > Mark

                            There is no sideplate , this is a solid piece of steel .

                            Snag
                          • Stan Stocker
                            Hi Folks, Two ways come to mind: 1) If the frames are cast the openings are cored, then finished with scraper and chisel work. 2) If they are forged, the
                            Message 14 of 17 , Jul 24, 2014
                              Hi Folks,

                              Two ways come to mind:

                              1) If the frames are cast the openings are cored, then finished with
                              scraper and chisel work.

                              2) If they are forged, the openings are punched hot (and maybe used as
                              the handle to put the work in the press) then the hammer comes down.

                              A handy hint for folks with the Pietta (Pity?) replica. My hammer was
                              not hardened and the striking face mushroomed after a year or so of
                              re-enacting. Forged down the sides to shove the metal back where it
                              belonged, cleaned up, and case hardened with Kasenite. No more
                              mushrooming hammer faces. Sad little models really, their Navy is a
                              disaster, had to mill 40 thou off a friends frame to close up the
                              headspace enough to fire reliably.

                              Another weird thing about at least my particular weapon - You can't
                              reblue these things. I don't know what steel they use or how they do it
                              at the factory. When my son tried to blue mine, the finish came out
                              looking like a low luster black parkerize job even though he'd polished
                              and prepped to the same level as for a normal to better than average
                              bluing job. The came bluing setup produced excellent work before and
                              after, so it was something specific to this individual piece.

                              Best to all,
                              Stan Stocker
                            • Jerry Durand
                              On 07/24/2014 07:48 AM, Stan Stocker skstocker@comcast.net [MILL_DRILL] ... Note that there s apparently a big difference between old and new Piettas. They ve
                              Message 15 of 17 , Jul 24, 2014
                                On 07/24/2014 07:48 AM, Stan Stocker skstocker@... [MILL_DRILL]
                                wrote:
                                > A handy hint for folks with the Pietta (Pity?) replica.

                                Note that there's apparently a big difference between old and new
                                Piettas. They've been upgrading materials, running CNC machines, etc.
                                to improve quality. The new ones get good reviews.

                                --
                                Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
                                tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                Skype: jerrydurand
                              • Terry Coombs
                                ... I m not sure who manufactured mine , but it came as a kit - sand cast exterior , unfinished wood parts , completely disassembled - all machine work was
                                Message 16 of 17 , Jul 24, 2014
                                  Stan Stocker skstocker@... [MILL_DRILL] wrote:

                                  > A handy hint for folks with the Pietta (Pity?) replica. My hammer was
                                  > not hardened and the striking face mushroomed after a year or so of
                                  > re-enacting. Forged down the sides to shove the metal back where it
                                  > belonged, cleaned up, and case hardened with Kasenite. No more
                                  > mushrooming hammer faces. Sad little models really, their Navy is a
                                  > disaster, had to mill 40 thou off a friends frame to close up the
                                  > headspace enough to fire reliably.
                                  >
                                  > Another weird thing about at least my particular weapon - You can't
                                  > reblue these things. I don't know what steel they use or how they do
                                  > it at the factory. When my son tried to blue mine, the finish came
                                  > out looking like a low luster black parkerize job even though he'd
                                  > polished and prepped to the same level as for a normal to better than
                                  > average bluing job. The came bluing setup produced excellent work
                                  > before and after, so it was something specific to this individual
                                  > piece.
                                  >
                                  > Best to all,
                                  > Stan Stocker
                                  >

                                  I'm not sure who manufactured mine , but it came as a kit - sand cast
                                  exterior , unfinished wood parts , completely disassembled - all machine
                                  work was done and the barrel was in the frame though . After I bought my .36
                                  kit , Dad liked it so much he got the .44 kit <I have that one too now> .
                                  We chose different finishes , he went with blue and I had a friend who
                                  worked at Browning Arms' plant in SLC . Mine's brown , along with the ML
                                  rifle <CVA , also from a kit> .
                                  I also had a problem with my hammer mushrooming , but it was from dry
                                  firing w/out a cap . Learned real quick not to do that . Did you also
                                  re-heat-treat the sear area when you case hardened your hammer face ?

                                  Snag
                                • Stan Stocker
                                  On 07/24/2014 08:19 PM, Terry Coombs snagone@mvtel.net [MILL_DRILL] ... Hi Snag, It s been quite a few years since I did this, and I don t specifically
                                  Message 17 of 17 , Jul 24, 2014
                                    On 07/24/2014 08:19 PM, 'Terry Coombs' snagone@... [MILL_DRILL]
                                    >
                                    > I'm not sure who manufactured mine , but it came as a kit - sand cast
                                    > exterior , unfinished wood parts , completely disassembled - all machine
                                    > work was done and the barrel was in the frame though . After I bought my .36
                                    > kit , Dad liked it so much he got the .44 kit <I have that one too now> .
                                    > We chose different finishes , he went with blue and I had a friend who
                                    > worked at Browning Arms' plant in SLC . Mine's brown , along with the ML
                                    > rifle <CVA , also from a kit> .
                                    > I also had a problem with my hammer mushrooming , but it was from dry
                                    > firing w/out a cap . Learned real quick not to do that . Did you also
                                    > re-heat-treat the sear area when you case hardened your hammer face ?
                                    >
                                    > Snag
                                    >

                                    Hi Snag,

                                    It's been quite a few years since I did this, and I don't specifically
                                    recall. It seems unlikely I would have left any of the acting surfaces
                                    in a soft condition though. Harden and stone would be more likely than
                                    leaving as is.

                                    Take care,
                                    Stan
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