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110 or 220 volt?

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  • Ken Snow
    Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs real smooth with
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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      Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
      it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
      real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
      bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
      their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
      the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
      company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
      thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
      pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
      power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

      I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
      but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

      Ken
    • Mario L Vitale
      Ken, With 220 H.P. I think it ought to have enough power, I just hope you have a substation outside your garage!?!?!?.....By now you probably have noticed your
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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        Ken,
        With 220 H.P. I think it ought to have enough power, I just hope you have
        a substation outside your garage!?!?!?.....By now you probably have noticed
        your typo.....Don't feel bad, when I got my Mill-Drill I was so excited I
        couldn't think straight for two weeks!!!
        I'm not a EE, but I don't think changing the voltage will change the
        power; it will only draw less amperage (as I understand it). Besides, I have
        a Harbor Freight geared head mill-drill with a 1 1/2 h.p. motor and I
        haven't had any problems cutting mild steel. What I have found to be the
        case is that rigidity (of both the machine and setup) is the limiting
        factor,
        not power.
        Good luck with your new toy!

        Mario
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Ken Snow" <ostinato32@...>
        To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:09 AM
        Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?


        > Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
        > it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
        > real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
        > bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
        > their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
        > the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
        > company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
        > thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
        > pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
        > power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?
        >
        > I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
        > but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.
        >
        > Ken
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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        >
        >
        >
      • MERT BAKER
        With 220, your lines will be carrying half the current, & run cooler. I d go with the 220, if you have the wiring to support it. My lathe used to pop the
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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          With 220, your lines will be carrying half the current, & run cooler. I'd
          go with the 220, if you have the wiring to support it.
          My lathe used to pop the breakers on 110, but it's been on 220 now for 10
          years or so & nary a pop.
          Mert
          MertBaker@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ken Snow" <ostinato32@...>
          To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:09 AM
          Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?


          > Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
          > it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
          > real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
          > bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
          > their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
          > the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
          > company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
          > thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
          > pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
          > power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?
          >
          > I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
          > but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.
          >
          > Ken
          >
          >
          >
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          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        • Corey
          If I had a 220v outlet right next to a 110v outlet I would go with the 220v. If it were any more trouble than that, I wouldn t bother, it runs just fine on
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 20, 2002
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            If I had a 220v outlet right next to a 110v outlet I
            would go with the 220v. If it were any more trouble
            than that, I wouldn't bother, it runs just fine on
            110v.

            cheers,
            c
            --- Ken Snow <ostinato32@...> wrote:
            > Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have
            > not had time to set
            > it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit,
            > and finish. It runs
            > real smooth with those two belts, and every thing
            > feels smooth and
            > bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco
            > lived up to
            > their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me
            > $974. I faxed them
            > the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at
            > the freight
            > company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered
            > the 220hp model
            > thinking it would come that way but it came with a
            > large 2hp motor
            > pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group,
            > does it have enough
            > power that way or should I go to trouble to make it
            > 220?
            >
            > I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time
            > to research this,
            > but I can already see this is a very useful group.
            > Thanks.
            >
            > Ken
            >
            >
            >
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            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            >


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          • Jerry@astroknobs
            Ken, I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I m not the first to raz you. Couldn t resist. Here s the truth and nothing but the truth (I ve researched this issue to
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
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              Ken,
              I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
               
              Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
               
              If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
               
              If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
               
              Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
               
              ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
               
              So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
               
              Cheers,
              Jerry
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Ken Snow
              Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
              Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

              Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
              it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
              real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
              bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
              their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
              the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
              company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
              thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
              pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
              power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

              I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
              but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

              Ken




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            • Marv Frankel
              Jerry, That mill probably does 0 to 60 in 6 seconds. Marv Frankel Los Angeles ... From: Jerry@astroknobs To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
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                Jerry,
                     That mill probably does 0 to 60 in 6 seconds.
                 
                Marv Frankel
                Los Angeles
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 12:05 AM
                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                Ken,
                I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
                 
                Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
                 
                If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
                 
                If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
                 
                Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
                 
                ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
                 
                So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
                 
                Cheers,
                Jerry
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Ken Snow
                Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
                Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                Ken




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              • Dr_Stupid
                Well according to an electrical engineer friend of mine, it s not that the tools aren t suckin the same amount of current. What it is, (if I translate it into
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
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                  Well according to an electrical engineer friend of mine, it's not that the tools aren't suckin' the same amount of current. What it is, (if I translate it into english correctly..lol). The larger wires take longer for them to populate with electrons and so using larger than rated cables acts somewhat like a electrical resevoir. You're still getting the necessary power required to make the tools work, but because it's akin to high volume, low pressuure in pneumatic systems, there's less friction between the electrons and the conductor, so less heat....or at least that's what I gathered from my friend's explanation.
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 2:25 AM
                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                  Jerry,
                       That mill probably does 0 to 60 in 6 seconds.
                   
                  Marv Frankel
                  Los Angeles
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 12:05 AM
                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                  Ken,
                  I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
                   
                  Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
                   
                  If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
                   
                  If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
                   
                  Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
                   
                  ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
                   
                  So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
                   
                  Cheers,
                  Jerry
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Ken Snow
                  Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
                  Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                  Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                  it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                  real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                  bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                  their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                  the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                  company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                  thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                  pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                  power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                  I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                  but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                  Ken




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                  mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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                • Stan Stocker
                  Hi Folks; Dr Stupid (NO THIS IS NOT A FLAME, IT IS HIS EMAIL HANDLE) has the right gist, just some of the terms are a bit off. The tool pulls the same POWER
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
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                    Hi Folks;

                    Dr Stupid (NO THIS IS NOT A FLAME, IT IS HIS EMAIL HANDLE) has the right
                    gist, just some of the terms are a bit off.

                    The tool pulls the same POWER regardless of running on 110 or 220. It
                    will pull one half the CURRENT running on 220 as on 110. 220 volt
                    allows the use of smaller wire to deliver a given amount of POWER (not
                    amps).

                    Simple Ohms law - I'll ignore power factor, inductances, and all the
                    other confusing parts :-)

                    E = I*R where E = Voltage (volts), I = Current (amps), and R =
                    Resistance (ohms)

                    If you have 10 amps pulled through 1 ohm of resistance in an extension
                    cord, 10 volts will be developed across the resistance. In this
                    example, 100 volts would be available to the motor, 10 volts would be
                    converted to heat and dissipated in the extension cord.

                    P = E*I where power is in watts. In this case, converting the formula
                    to P = I^2 * R makes it easier to work out in a single step.

                    In the case of 10 amps through 1 ohm, 10 ^2 * 1 = 100 watts, which will
                    be lost as heat.

                    Using P=E*I:

                    20 amps at 110 volts is 2200 watts of power, 10 amps at 220 is still
                    2200 watts.

                    A larger cable can carry more current because it has lower resistance.
                    The lower the resistance, the less power is lost to heat in the cable,
                    so it is delivered to the motor. My surface grinder won't start with a
                    14 gauge extension cable, and will trip a 15 amp breaker, a 12 or 10
                    cable is required, plugged in to a 20 amp outlet. It would probably RUN
                    on a smaller cable and breaker, but it can't start as the starting
                    current can't be delivered. You'll notice most motors have a rating for
                    start current and run current, with the start current often two times
                    the run current.

                    Hopefully this is of some help,
                    Stan
                  • Jerry@astroknobs
                    Stan, Good overview. As far as starting current, in industry, we usually set the instantaneous trip at 13x full load running amps to handle the starting
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
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                      Stan,
                      Good overview.  As far as starting current, in industry, we usually set the instantaneous trip at 13x full load running amps to handle the starting current.  --Jerry
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 3:04 PM
                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                      Hi Folks;

                      Dr Stupid (NO THIS IS NOT A FLAME, IT IS HIS EMAIL HANDLE) has the right
                      gist, just some of the terms are a bit off.

                      The tool pulls the same POWER regardless of running on 110 or 220.  It
                      will pull one half the CURRENT running on 220 as on 110.  220 volt
                      allows the use of smaller wire to deliver a given amount of POWER (not
                      amps).

                      Simple Ohms law - I'll ignore power factor, inductances, and all the
                      other confusing parts :-)

                      E = I*R  where E = Voltage (volts), I = Current (amps), and R =
                      Resistance (ohms)

                      If you have 10 amps pulled through 1 ohm of resistance in an extension
                      cord, 10 volts will be developed across the resistance.  In this
                      example, 100 volts would be available to the motor, 10 volts would be
                      converted to heat and dissipated in the extension cord.

                      P = E*I where power is in watts.  In this case, converting the formula
                      to P = I^2 * R makes it easier to work out in a single step.

                      In the case of 10 amps through 1 ohm, 10 ^2 * 1 = 100 watts, which will
                      be lost as heat.

                      Using P=E*I:

                      20 amps at 110 volts is 2200 watts of power, 10 amps at 220 is still
                      2200 watts.

                      A larger cable can carry more current because it has lower resistance.
                      The lower the resistance, the less power is lost to heat in the cable,
                      so it is delivered to the motor.  My surface grinder won't start with a
                      14 gauge extension cable, and will trip a 15 amp breaker, a 12 or 10
                      cable is required, plugged in to a 20 amp outlet.  It would probably RUN
                      on a smaller cable and breaker, but it can't start as the starting
                      current can't be delivered.  You'll notice most motors have a rating for
                      start current and run current, with the start current often two times
                      the run current.

                      Hopefully this is of some help,
                      Stan


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                    • Mario L Vitale
                      Jerry, Very nice summary. One comment, though....why wait to find an extension cord on sale, just by a 25 foot roll of 12-2 Romex! Mario ... From:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
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                        Jerry,
                           Very nice summary. One comment, though....why wait to find an extension cord on sale, just by a 25 foot roll of 12-2 Romex!
                                                                    Mario
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 2:05 AM
                        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                        Ken,
                        I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
                         
                        Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
                         
                        If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
                         
                        If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
                         
                        Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
                         
                        ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
                         
                        So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
                         
                        Cheers,
                        Jerry
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Ken Snow
                        Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
                        Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                        Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                        it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                        real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                        bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                        their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                        the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                        company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                        thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                        pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                        power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                        I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                        but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                        Ken




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                      • Jerry@astroknobs
                        Mario, The problem with using Romex for a cord is that the single strand wire isn t designed to flex and will soon fail at a bend. of course the definition of
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
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                          Mario,
                          The problem with using Romex for a cord is that the single strand wire isn't designed to flex and will soon fail at a bend.  of course the definition of soon depends on how much it gets moved and how careful you are not to bend and rebend at a single location.    Cheers, jerry
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:24 PM
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                          Jerry,
                             Very nice summary. One comment, though....why wait to find an extension cord on sale, just by a 25 foot roll of 12-2 Romex!
                                                                      Mario
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 2:05 AM
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                          Ken,
                          I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
                           
                          Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
                           
                          If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
                           
                          If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
                           
                          Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
                           
                          ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
                           
                          So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
                           
                          Cheers,
                          Jerry
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Ken Snow
                          Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
                          Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                          Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                          it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                          real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                          bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                          their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                          the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                          company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                          thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                          pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                          power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                          I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                          but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                          Ken




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                        • Marv Frankel
                          Mario, I don t really think he wants to use romex for an extension cord. Romex has solid copper conductors, which aren t used if you need flexibility. What he
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 22, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Mario,
                                   I don't really think he wants to use romex for an extension cord. Romex has solid copper conductors, which aren't used if you need flexibility. What he wants, is rubber covered SO Cord, 12-2 with a ground, to make up an extension.
                             
                            Marv Frankel
                            Los Angeles
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:24 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                            Jerry,
                               Very nice summary. One comment, though....why wait to find an extension cord on sale, just by a 25 foot roll of 12-2 Romex!
                                                                        Mario
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 2:05 AM
                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                            Ken,
                            I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
                             
                            Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
                             
                            If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
                             
                            If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
                             
                            Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
                             
                            ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
                             
                            So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
                             
                            Cheers,
                            Jerry
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Ken Snow
                            Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
                            Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                            Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                            it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                            real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                            bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                            their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                            the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                            company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                            thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                            pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                            power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                            I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                            but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                            Ken




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                          • Mario L Vitale
                            Jerry, You re absolutely correct...good point. Mario ... From: Jerry@astroknobs To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:20 PM
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 23, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Jerry,
                                 You're absolutely correct...good point.   
                                                                                      Mario
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:20 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                              Mario,
                              The problem with using Romex for a cord is that the single strand wire isn't designed to flex and will soon fail at a bend.  of course the definition of soon depends on how much it gets moved and how careful you are not to bend and rebend at a single location.    Cheers, jerry
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:24 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                              Jerry,
                                 Very nice summary. One comment, though....why wait to find an extension cord on sale, just by a 25 foot roll of 12-2 Romex!
                                                                          Mario
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 2:05 AM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                              Ken,
                              I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
                               
                              Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
                               
                              If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
                               
                              If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
                               
                              Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
                               
                              ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
                               
                              So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
                               
                              Cheers,
                              Jerry
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Ken Snow
                              Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
                              Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                              Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                              it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                              real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                              bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                              their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                              the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                              company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                              thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                              pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                              power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                              I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                              but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                              Ken




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                            • Mario L Vitale
                              Marv, I agree, if you re going to be moving things around a lot youi r better off with a stranded cable. Mario ... From: Marv Frankel To:
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 23, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Marv,
                                   I agree, if you're going to be moving things around a lot youi'r better off with a "stranded" cable.
                                                                                                                                                Mario
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 12:03 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                                Mario,
                                       I don't really think he wants to use romex for an extension cord. Romex has solid copper conductors, which aren't used if you need flexibility. What he wants, is rubber covered SO Cord, 12-2 with a ground, to make up an extension.
                                 
                                Marv Frankel
                                Los Angeles
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:24 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                                Jerry,
                                   Very nice summary. One comment, though....why wait to find an extension cord on sale, just by a 25 foot roll of 12-2 Romex!
                                                                            Mario
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 2:05 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                                Ken,
                                I want a 220 hp mill...ok so I'm not the first to raz you.  Couldn't resist.
                                 
                                Here's the truth and nothing but the truth (I've researched this issue to death, starting with my table saw):
                                 
                                If you have big enough wires, there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in the power produced at 110 and 220 volts. 
                                 
                                If you don't, you need to go 220.  So are you plugging it into an old 15 amp circuit?  If so, you'll have problems.  I wired my garage with 12 gauge throughout and ran two circuits from the seperate phases so I could pull 220 off at any box.  I've never needed to.  I run everything on 110.
                                 
                                Here's a tip, however.  Next time you see 12 gauge (yeah the big honkers) extension cords on sale, buy one or two and use it to replace the leads on your big power tools.  I bought a 25 footer and split it between my table saw and band saw.  Both start better and run cooler.  Clearly they are pulling less amps....
                                 
                                ...not the simple physics behind the issue.  Power equals amps x volts.  If your voltage dips, the motor will pull more amps to carry the load (it won't fully make up the difference so you notice that you have less power).  A  too-small wire or a too-long circuit/extension cord will cause a voltage drop.  So long as your circuit can get 110 volts (acutally more like 120-130) to your mill, you'll be fine.  one way to check is to open the cover to the motor electrical box.  Hook up a volt meter.  Have someone watch it while you take a heavy cut.  If it doesn't dip more than a couple of volts, you're fine. 
                                 
                                So why is 220 better?  Because twice the voltage means half the current so you can get by with smaller wires.
                                 
                                Cheers,
                                Jerry
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Ken Snow
                                Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:09 AM
                                Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                                Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                                it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                                real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                                bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                                their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                                the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                                company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                                thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                                pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                                power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                                I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                                but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                                Ken




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                              • Dan Bellerud
                                Ken: I m catching up on old email, so somebody probably answered this already. But. The power output is the same whether run on 110 or 220. What changes is
                                Message 15 of 16 , Sep 23, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Ken:

                                   

                                  I’m catching up on old email, so somebody probably answered this already…  But…

                                   

                                  The power output is the same whether run on 110 or 220.  What changes is the number of amps necessary to achieve that power.  You may find that the motor draws 15 amps at 110 and you don’t have 15 amps to spare.  Rewire for 220, and your amp draw is now 7.5 amps.  (My numbers are made-up.  Your motor should have the draw listed on the plate/label)  Dual voltage motors are wired with the heavier gauge wire necessary for 110 VAC operation.

                                   

                                  Given the option, I run whatever I can at 220 VAC – runs cooler and keeps my workshop main from tripping.

                                   

                                  -Dan

                                   

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Ken Snow [mailto:ostinato32@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:10 AM
                                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [mill_drill] 110 or 220 volt?

                                   

                                  Received my RF 31 with table feed from Enco. Have not had time to set
                                  it up yet, but I am impressed with the heft, fit, and finish. It runs
                                  real smooth with those two belts, and every thing feels smooth and
                                  bur-less even though I have not cleaned it yet. Enco lived up to
                                  their claim to match prices less 5% so it cost me $974. I faxed them
                                  the add from BTC. I ordered it on Friday, it was at the freight
                                  company on Monday, I set up delivery Wed. I ordered the 220hp model
                                  thinking it would come that way but it came with a large 2hp motor
                                  pre-wired for 110 volt. My question to the group, does it have enough
                                  power that way or should I go to trouble to make it 220?

                                  I am only up to post #474 and have not had the time to research this,
                                  but I can already see this is a very useful group. Thanks.

                                  Ken




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                                • John Lewis
                                  Hey! I know this has been covered 3 or 4 times already, but I think of it differently, so this might help to people who have the same cognitive style as I do!
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Sep 30, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hey!

                                    I know this has been covered 3 or 4 times already, but I think of it
                                    differently, so this
                                    might help to people who have the same cognitive style as I do! :-)

                                    When electricity goes through wires, the get hot (if only a little). That's
                                    power wasted as
                                    heat. That wasted power is not available at the plug.

                                    Power wasted goes up with voltage, but it goes up with the SQUARE of
                                    current. So what you
                                    want is less current. The way to get half the current (and a quater the
                                    power wasted) is
                                    to double the voltage. So 220 is better than 110, all other things equal.

                                    Low voltage and high current heat up the wire. If the wire is too small, it
                                    melts.
                                    And even if it's not too small, it gets hot and wastes power.
                                    So what you need (for small wire) is really, really high voltage, and
                                    low(er) current.
                                    That's why cross country transmission lines are 250,000 volts or so. I
                                    think the power lines
                                    down major city streets and into office buildings are 13,800. 'might be
                                    wrong on those exact
                                    numbers, but you see the point.

                                    'hope this helps.

                                    (Hey, no math!! :-)

                                    JohnL
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