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Re: [MILL_DRILL] Taper is stuck

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  • David Hair
    No don t hit on the draw bar you ruin the thread on it, it s to small. Take a small piece of flat steel,insert it in the slot where your drift wedge goes and
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 30, 2014
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      No don't hit on the draw bar you ruin the thread on it, it's to small. Take a small piece of flat steel,insert it in the slot where your drift  wedge goes and put the drift on top of it. The steel piece must be the size of the end of the MT end approx 1/2 x 1/4 x 3/16
       
      GP

      From: "ebasilier@..." <ebasilier@...>
      To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:53 AM
      Subject: [MILL_DRILL] Taper is stuck
       
      It has been years since I last used my HF mini-mill, and now the drill chuck taper seems to be stuck in the spindle. My recollection is that I should be able to loosen in by tapping gently on top of the drawbar, after I unscrew the drawbar a few turns. Now it won't budge even after I dripped wd-40 into the spindle and let it soak. I hesitate to use too much force, or try some kind of heating/cooling approach. Any and all advice would be welcome!

    • azk7tv
      It has been years since I last used my HF mini-mill, and now the drill chuck taper seems to be stuck in the spindle. My recollection is that I should be able
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 30, 2014
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        It has been years since I last used my HF mini-mill, and now the drill chuck taper seems to be stuck in the spindle. My recollection is that I should be able to loosen in by tapping gently on top of the drawbar, after I unscrew the drawbar a few turns. Now it won't budge even after I dripped wd-40 into the spindle and let it soak. I hesitate to use too much force, or try some kind of heating/cooling approach. Any and all advice would be welcome!
      • markknx
        Try liquid wrench or PB Blaster. And the a sharp wrap
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 30, 2014
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          Try liquid wrench or PB Blaster. And the a sharp wrap

        • azk7tv
          Thanks. I looked those up and they look promising. One of the links led to a comparison of similar products, and it was said that none of them are as good as a
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 30, 2014
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            Thanks. I looked those up and they look promising. One of the links led to a comparison of similar products, and it was said that none of them are as good as a mix of acetone and ATF. Hmmm, I might not have to go to the store then... But is there a risk that acetone might damage something in the mill, such as plastic gears?
          • Jorge Scordamaglia
            It s possible that the draw bar was overtightened but even then, tighten the bar by hand again and turn it out one turn only and then rap it with a dead blow
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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              It's possible that the draw bar was overtightened but even then, tighten the bar by hand again and turn it out one turn only and then rap it with a dead blow hammer or similar and that should do the trick. I wouldn't try concoctions inside the spindle. WD40 OK.

              Jorge
            • Guenther Paul
              No don t hit on the draw bar you ruin the thread on it, it s to small. Take a small piece of flat steel,insert it in the slot where your drift  wedge goes and
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                No don't hit on the draw bar you ruin the thread on it, it's to small. Take a small piece of flat steel,insert it in the slot where your drift  wedge goes and put the drift on top of it. The steel piece must be the size of the end of the MT end approx 1/2 x 1/4 x 3/16
                 
                GP

                From: "ebasilier@..." <ebasilier@...>
                To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:53 AM
                Subject: [MILL_DRILL] Taper is stuck
                 
                It has been years since I last used my HF mini-mill, and now the drill chuck taper seems to be stuck in the spindle. My recollection is that I should be able to loosen in by tapping gently on top of the drawbar, after I unscrew the drawbar a few turns. Now it won't budge even after I dripped wd-40 into the spindle and let it soak. I hesitate to use too much force, or try some kind of heating/cooling approach. Any and all advice would be welcome!
              • Rick Sparber
                GP, My RF30 doesn t have this slot but I think you make an important point about doing damage. Rick
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                  GP,

                  My RF30 doesn't have this slot but I think you make an important point about doing damage. 

                  Rick

                  On Jan 31, 2014, at 5:37 AM, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:

                  No don't hit on the draw bar you ruin the thread on it, it's to small. Take a small piece of flat steel,insert it in the slot where your drift  wedge goes and put the drift on top of it. The steel piece must be the size of the end of the MT end approx 1/2 x 1/4 x 3/16
                   
                  GP

                  From: "ebasilier@..." <ebasilier@...>
                  To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:53 AM
                  Subject: [MILL_DRILL] Taper is stuck
                   
                  It has been years since I last used my HF mini-mill, and now the drill chuck taper seems to be stuck in the spindle. My recollection is that I should be able to loosen in by tapping gently on top of the drawbar, after I unscrew the drawbar a few turns. Now it won't budge even after I dripped wd-40 into the spindle and let it soak. I hesitate to use too much force, or try some kind of heating/cooling approach. Any and all advice would be welcome!
                • Rick Sparber
                  Soaking the chuck s contact surfaces with WD40 should help. May have to wait a day for it to do its magic. I suggest you put something under the chuck to
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                    Soaking the chuck's contact surfaces with WD40 should help. May have to wait a day for it to do its magic. I suggest you put something under the chuck to cushion it's fall. 

                    Unscrew and remove the drawbar. Slide in a length of 1/2" CRS bar. Then use a small hammer to tap on the bar. No big slams, just ever increasing in force taps. A few blows to the side of the chuck with a rubber mallet might help too. 

                    Rick

                    On Jan 30, 2014, at 10:53 PM, <ebasilier@...> wrote:

                    It has been years since I last used my HF mini-mill, and now the drill chuck taper seems to be stuck in the spindle. My recollection is that I should be able to loosen in by tapping gently on top of the drawbar, after I unscrew the drawbar a few turns. Now it won't budge even after I dripped wd-40 into the spindle and let it soak. I hesitate to use too much force, or try some kind of heating/cooling approach. Any and all advice would be welcome!
                  • markknx
                    My LMS Mini mill does not have the slot either but it is a R-8, my jet has the slot but it is a MT-3. This could be the difference.
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                      My LMS Mini mill does not have the slot either but it is a R-8, my jet has the slot but it is a MT-3. This could be the difference.

                    • Guenther Paul
                      Make a treaded bar  use drill rod, have it long enough so it sticks out of the spindle a few inches use a small air chisel on the end of the rod . The
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                        Make a treaded bar  use drill rod, have it long enough so it sticks out of the spindle a few inches use a small air chisel on the end of the rod . The vibration of the air chisel will break it loose. Don't over do it just small bursts. it will not hurt the bearings, I have done this on Bridgeport's. You can also  have a guide bushing on the end of the rod to fit the rod and the tool you use on the chisel. Air chisels come with a pointed attachment but blunt the end
                         
                        GP

                        From: "mayo3013@..." <mayo3013@...>
                        To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 8:58 AM
                        Subject: Re: [MILL_DRILL] Taper is stuck
                         
                        My LMS Mini mill does not have the slot either but it is a R-8, my jet has the slot but it is a MT-3. This could be the difference.
                      • Scott Dunt
                        A HF Mini Mill could be either a Morris Taper OR an R-8.. I am assuming this is a SIEG X2 mill and not an RF-30 type? The R-8 should be much easier to remove.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                          A HF Mini Mill could be either a Morris Taper OR an R-8.. I am assuming
                          this is a SIEG X2 mill and not an RF-30 type?

                          The R-8 should be much easier to remove. The Morris tapers if someone
                          over tightened it can be a PITA to get out. I HAD a micro mill that
                          used MT2 and those were a pain to remove.

                          I made up a wooden block that I could put on the table. Then I lowered
                          the head onto the block so that the block support the quill, but NOT the
                          collet, and the column, etc while I smacked the drawbar or shafting as
                          Rick points out. If the situation is REALLY bad, you might consider
                          pulling the quill shaft out of the machine so as to not subject the
                          bearings and column, to the loads involved.

                          also with the quill out you could SUBMERGE the collect, in ATF -
                          Acetone, all though in this case WD40 is probably adequate. We would
                          hope you're not dealing with corrosion, just stuck. Maybe some old
                          packing grease or similar..

                          --
                          Scott Dunt
                        • lists
                          In article , ... One of the problems with MORSE tapers I m afraid. I purposely ordered R8 when I bought my Mill for that reason. --
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                            In article <52EBAF7E.60706@...>,
                            Scott Dunt <scott.dunt@...> wrote:
                            > The R-8 should be much easier to remove. The Morris tapers if someone
                            > over tightened it can be a PITA to get out. I HAD a micro mill that
                            > used MT2 and those were a pain to remove.

                            One of the problems with MORSE tapers I'm afraid.

                            I purposely ordered R8 when I bought my Mill for that reason.

                            --
                            Stuart Winsor
                          • david
                            heat from a hair dryer can also be your friend. seals will not be affected. get it as hot as you can prior to giving the drawbar a good whack. wd40 is just
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                              heat from a hair dryer can also be your friend.  seals will not be affected. 
                              get it as hot as you can prior to giving the drawbar a good whack.   wd40 is just a water displacer, atf & acetone is one of the best combos a fella could make as a penetrant. 
                              Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 5:51 AM
                              Subject: [MILL_DRILL] Re: Taper is stuck
                               

                              It's possible that the draw bar was overtightened but even then, tighten the bar by hand again and turn it out one turn only and then rap it with a dead blow hammer or similar and that should do the trick. I wouldn't try concoctions inside the spindle. WD40 OK.
                               
                              Jorge
                            • Guenther Paul
                              Stuart You,r afraid of what ? GP ________________________________ From: lists To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday,
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                                Stuart
                                You,r afraid of what ?
                                 
                                GP

                                From: lists <Stuartlists@...>
                                To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 10:05 AM
                                Subject: Re: [MILL_DRILL] Re: Taper is stuck
                                 
                                In article <52EBAF7E.60706@...>,
                                Scott Dunt <scott.dunt@...> wrote:
                                > The R-8 should be much easier to remove. The Morris tapers if someone
                                > over tightened it can be a PITA to get out. I HAD a micro mill that
                                > used MT2 and those were a pain to remove.

                                One of the problems with MORSE tapers I'm afraid.

                                I purposely ordered R8 when I bought my Mill for that reason.

                                --
                                Stuart Winsor

                              • casy_ch@tbwil.ch
                                A little bit of sewing machine on the finger passing around the MT (very little oil) before pugging it into the spindle and it is no problem. Jean-Claude
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                                  A little bit of sewing machine on the finger passing around the MT (very little oil) before pugging it into the spindle and it is no problem.

                                  Jean-Claude


                                  Am 31.01.2014 16:28, schrieb Guenther Paul:
                                   
                                  Stuart
                                  You,r afraid of what ?
                                   
                                  GP

                                  From: lists <Stuartlists@...>
                                  To: MILL_DRILL@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 10:05 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [MILL_DRILL] Re: Taper is stuck
                                   
                                  In article <52EBAF7E.60706@...>,
                                  Scott Dunt <scott.dunt@...> wrote:
                                  > The R-8 should be much easier to remove. The Morris tapers if someone
                                  > over tightened it can be a PITA to get out. I HAD a micro mill that
                                  > used MT2 and those were a pain to remove.

                                  One of the problems with MORSE tapers I'm afraid.

                                  I purposely ordered R8 when I bought my Mill for that reason.

                                  --
                                  Stuart Winsor


                                • maxsasseg
                                  After you let the penetrate work, loosen the drawbar only a couple of turns, this will insure you won t damage any threads, and give it a good sharp square
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                                    After you let the penetrate work, loosen the drawbar only a couple of turns, this will insure you won't damage any threads, and give it a good sharp square blow with your hammer using at least a 16oz brass hammer or better yet a steel hammer with a square blow.

                                    Dale Richardson

                                  • azk7tv
                                    Thanks, all, for your suggestions. This is an X2 mill with R-8 taper, and no slot. After two days of soaking, the taper still refused to move with my plastic
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jan 31, 2014
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                                      Thanks, all, for your suggestions.
                                      This is an X2 mill with R-8 taper, and no slot.
                                      After two days of soaking, the taper still refused to move with my plastic mallet on the draw bar.

                                      Following the suggestion of Scott D I placed a piece of 4x4 vertically between the table and the quill housing (on one side only). I didn't have any 1/2" CRS as suggested by Rick, but I found that the 1/2" measurement is correct to fit into the draw bar well without going into the threads. As a substitute I used a nail punch with the thick end down. Striking the thin end a few times with a small steel hammer did the trick! No rust was found, and there was oil on the surfaces.

                                      If this had not worked, I had another idea of my own. Since the taper had a drill chuck on it, I figured I could make a wedge fork and drive it in from the side between the chuck and the sleeve.
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