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Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST

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  • Al Garvin
    Don, I also do not want to make anyone with a Harbor Freight machine mad at me, but I ordered a HF 44983 6 machine vise after reading through the posts on
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 5, 2002
      Don,
      I also do not want to make anyone with a Harbor Freight machine mad at
      me, but I ordered a HF 44983 6" machine vise after reading through the posts
      on this list. I was able to see a picture of it on their web site. It looked
      OK. I found out there was a Harbor Freight store about 40 miles from me so I
      drove over there to see if I could get a first hand look a the vise before
      it got here. They had a green mill/drill that looked a lot like my Grizzly
      G1006. At least it was the same color and looked like it from a distance.
      Upon closer inspection, it was a piece of crap! The x-y table would barely
      move. The castings were poor at best. The quill depth stop indicator looked
      like it had be hit with a fork lift. It had a smaller table on it than my
      Grizzly. The crank to raise and lower the head did not work at all. I was
      very disappointed in what I saw. It did not seem to have any numbers on it
      or a label to show the country of origin. It was priced at $999.99 So I'm
      not sure this is the HF milldrill everyone on the list has. They did not
      have the vise that I and ordered on display but the ones the did have on
      display were also crap. When I got home I called Harbor Freight and canceled
      my vise order. I have not seen a true Rong Fu machine but I have seen an
      Enco 105-1133 16 3/8 Mill drill and I have a Grizzly G1006 with an Enco
      power table feed. Both of these Enco and Grizzly machines are magnitudes of
      quality above what I saw at Harbor Freight. I would suggest spending a
      little more and getting a lot more.
      Al
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
      To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:56 PM
      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST


      Don,
      I don't want to disparage the 33686 because I think it is a good piece of
      equipment. I bought mine thinking it was the 33686 only to find out it is a
      2117, made in Taiwan by Rong ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Don Lewis" <dlewis@...>
      To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:52 AM
      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST


      The probem is RUST. The spindle sleeve goes through two
      bored out sections of the head casting and the portion of the
      Any suggestions?

      Thanks,
      Don





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    • Paul R. Hvidston
      Al, Great comments. You are correct that the quality of Grizzly is generally better than HF, but Some of your complaints are simply that the idiots that work
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 5, 2002
        Al,

        Great comments. You are correct that the quality of Grizzly is generally
        better than HF, but Some of your complaints are simply that the idiots that
        work in the Harbor Freight store don't know how to assemble/setup these
        machines. Don't assume that because a machine in the store is missing parts
        or is wedged that that's the way it has to be. My Grizzly mini lathe was
        really awful when I first got it. They had to send out several replacement
        parts, including a new cross-slide, compound and cross feed screw & nut.
        There's a chance you take with any of these places. You just have to be
        ready/willing to work on it a little more. I'm really pleased with my HF
        2119 (RF-31), except for the motor that went bad on me. My VFD conversion
        has been put on hold while I install some fencing around the house. I can't
        wait to have smooth, quiet, variable speed!

        Regards,

        Paul R. Hvidston, N6MGN
        ACKSYS Engineering
        Upland, CA

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Al Garvin" <agarvin@...>
        To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:56 AM
        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST


        > Don,
        > I also do not want to make anyone with a Harbor Freight machine mad at
        > me, but I ordered a HF 44983 6" machine vise after reading through the
        posts
        > on this list. I was able to see a picture of it on their web site. It
        looked
        > OK. I found out there was a Harbor Freight store about 40 miles from me so
        I
        > drove over there to see if I could get a first hand look a the vise before
        > it got here. They had a green mill/drill that looked a lot like my Grizzly
        > G1006. At least it was the same color and looked like it from a distance.
        > Upon closer inspection, it was a piece of crap! The x-y table would barely
        > move. The castings were poor at best. The quill depth stop indicator
        looked
        > like it had be hit with a fork lift. It had a smaller table on it than my
        > Grizzly. The crank to raise and lower the head did not work at all. I was
        > very disappointed in what I saw. It did not seem to have any numbers on it
        > or a label to show the country of origin. It was priced at $999.99 So I'm
        > not sure this is the HF milldrill everyone on the list has. They did not
        > have the vise that I and ordered on display but the ones the did have on
        > display were also crap. When I got home I called Harbor Freight and
        canceled
        > my vise order. I have not seen a true Rong Fu machine but I have seen an
        > Enco 105-1133 16 3/8 Mill drill and I have a Grizzly G1006 with an Enco
        > power table feed. Both of these Enco and Grizzly machines are magnitudes
        of
        > quality above what I saw at Harbor Freight. I would suggest spending a
        > little more and getting a lot more.
        > Al
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
        > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:56 PM
        > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST
        >
        >
        > Don,
        > I don't want to disparage the 33686 because I think it is a good piece of
        > equipment. I bought mine thinking it was the 33686 only to find out it is
        a
        > 2117, made in Taiwan by Rong ----- Original Message -----
      • Jerry@astroknobs
        Paul, I didn t realize that you have a 2119 like me. I somehow got the idea that you had the 33686. I guess I need to be more concerned about my motor.
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 5, 2002
          Paul,
          I didn't realize that you have a 2119 like me.  I somehow got the idea that you had the 33686.  I guess I need to be more concerned about my motor.  Translate:  if I see a good deal on a 3ph and VFD on ebay I'm now more likely to buy it.  Thanks, Jerry
           
          PS Very good post.  Just about anything you see on the floor at HF has been abused and parts robbed by "customers".  and as they say on the 9x20 group:  any asian tool should be considered a kit that you should disassemble, clean, deburr, evaluate, and reassemble.  If you do this, you'll have a great machine.
           
          I'd have to say that the castings on the 2119 are excellent compared to some of the posts I've seen about the 33686.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:08 AM
          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST

          Al,

          Great comments. You are correct that the quality of Grizzly is generally
          better than HF, but Some of your complaints are simply that the idiots that
          work in the Harbor Freight store don't know how to assemble/setup these
          machines. Don't assume that because a machine in the store is missing parts
          or is wedged that that's the way it has to be. My Grizzly mini lathe was
          really awful when I first got it. They had to send out several replacement
          parts, including a new cross-slide, compound and cross feed screw & nut.
          There's a chance you take with any of these places. You just have to be
          ready/willing to work on it a little more. I'm really pleased with my HF
          2119 (RF-31), except for the motor that went bad on me. My VFD conversion
          has been put on hold while I install some fencing around the house. I can't
          wait to have smooth, quiet, variable speed!

          Regards,

          Paul R. Hvidston, N6MGN
          ACKSYS Engineering
          Upland, CA

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Al Garvin" <agarvin@...>
          To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:56 AM
          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST


          > Don,
          >     I also do not want to make anyone with a Harbor Freight machine mad at
          > me, but I ordered a HF 44983 6" machine vise after reading through the
          posts
          > on this list. I was able to see a picture of it on their web site. It
          looked
          > OK. I found out there was a Harbor Freight store about 40 miles from me so
          I
          > drove over there to see if I could get a first hand look a the vise before
          > it got here. They had a green mill/drill that looked a lot like my Grizzly
          > G1006. At least it was the same color and looked like it from a distance.
          > Upon closer inspection, it was a piece of crap! The x-y table would barely
          > move. The castings were poor at best. The quill depth stop indicator
          looked
          > like it had be hit with a fork lift. It had a smaller table on  it than my
          > Grizzly. The crank to raise and lower the head did not work at all. I was
          > very disappointed in what I saw. It did not seem to have any numbers on it
          > or a label to show the country of origin. It was priced at $999.99 So I'm
          > not sure this is the HF milldrill everyone on the list has.  They did not
          > have the vise that I and ordered on display but the ones the did have on
          > display were also crap. When I got home I called Harbor Freight and
          canceled
          > my vise order. I have not seen a true Rong Fu machine but I have seen an
          > Enco 105-1133 16 3/8 Mill drill and I have a Grizzly G1006  with an Enco
          > power table feed. Both of these Enco and Grizzly machines are magnitudes
          of
          > quality above what I saw at Harbor Freight. I would suggest spending a
          > little more and getting a lot more.
          > Al
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
          > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:56 PM
          > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST
          >
          >
          > Don,
          > I don't want to disparage the 33686 because I think it is a good piece of
          > equipment.  I bought mine thinking it was the 33686 only to find out it is
          a
          > 2117, made in Taiwan by Rong ----- Original Message -----




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        • Dan
          FYI: I have a couple of spare 1.5 HP Baldor (and other) 3PH motors on my shelf. FOB Green Bay, WI. Make an offer. -Dan ... From: Jerry@astroknobs
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 5, 2002

            FYI:  I have a couple of spare 1.5 HP Baldor (and other) 3PH motors on my shelf.  FOB Green Bay, WI.  Make an offer…

             

            -Dan

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jerry@astroknobs [mailto:jer@...]
            Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 2:55 PM
            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST

             

            Paul,

            I didn't realize that you have a 2119 like me.  I somehow got the idea that you had the 33686.  I guess I need to be more concerned about my motor.  Translate:  if I see a good deal on a 3ph and VFD on ebay I'm now more likely to buy it.  Thanks, Jerry

             

            PS Very good post.  Just about anything you see on the floor at HF has been abused and parts robbed by "customers".  and as they say on the 9x20 group:  any asian tool should be considered a kit that you should disassemble, clean, deburr, evaluate, and reassemble.  If you do this, you'll have a great machine.

             

            I'd have to say that the castings on the 2119 are excellent compared to some of the posts I've seen about the 33686.

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:08 AM

            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST

             

            Al,

            Great comments. You are correct that the quality of Grizzly is generally
            better than HF, but Some of your complaints are simply that the idiots that
            work in the Harbor Freight store don't know how to assemble/setup these
            machines. Don't assume that because a machine in the store is missing parts
            or is wedged that that's the way it has to be. My Grizzly mini lathe was
            really awful when I first got it. They had to send out several replacement
            parts, including a new cross-slide, compound and cross feed screw & nut.
            There's a chance you take with any of these places. You just have to be
            ready/willing to work on it a little more. I'm really pleased with my HF
            2119 (RF-31), except for the motor that went bad on me. My VFD conversion
            has been put on hold while I install some fencing around the house. I can't
            wait to have smooth, quiet, variable speed!

            Regards,

            Paul R. Hvidston, N6MGN
            ACKSYS Engineering
            Upland, CA

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Al Garvin" <agarvin@...>
            To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:56 AM
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST


            > Don,
            >     I also do not want to make anyone with a Harbor Freight machine mad at
            > me, but I ordered a HF 44983 6" machine vise after reading through the
            posts
            > on this list. I was able to see a picture of it on their web site. It
            looked
            > OK. I found out there was a Harbor Freight store about 40 miles from me so
            I
            > drove over there to see if I could get a first hand look a the vise before
            > it got here. They had a green mill/drill that looked a lot like my Grizzly
            > G1006. At least it was the same color and looked like it from a distance.
            > Upon closer inspection, it was a piece of crap! The x-y table would barely
            > move. The castings were poor at best. The quill depth stop indicator
            looked
            > like it had be hit with a fork lift. It had a smaller table on  it than my
            > Grizzly. The crank to raise and lower the head did not work at all. I was
            > very disappointed in what I saw. It did not seem to have any numbers on it
            > or a label to show the country of origin. It was priced at $999.99 So I'm
            > not sure this is the HF milldrill everyone on the list has.  They did not
            > have the vise that I and ordered on display but the ones the did have on
            > display were also crap. When I got home I called Harbor Freight and
            canceled
            > my vise order. I have not seen a true Rong Fu machine but I have seen an
            > Enco 105-1133 16 3/8 Mill drill and I have a Grizzly G1006  with an Enco
            > power table feed. Both of these Enco and Grizzly machines are magnitudes
            of
            > quality above what I saw at Harbor Freight. I would suggest spending a
            > little more and getting a lot more.
            > Al
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
            > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:56 PM
            > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST
            >
            >
            > Don,
            > I don't want to disparage the 33686 because I think it is a good piece of
            > equipment.  I bought mine thinking it was the 33686 only to find out it is
            a
            > 2117, made in Taiwan by Rong ----- Original Message -----




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          • johnttoner
            ... mad at ... the posts ... It looked ... from me so I ... before ... Grizzly ... distance. ... barely ... indicator looked ... than my ... I was ... numbers
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
              --- In mill_drill@y..., "Al Garvin" <agarvin@e...> wrote:
              > Don,
              > I also do not want to make anyone with a Harbor Freight machine
              mad at
              > me, but I ordered a HF 44983 6" machine vise after reading through
              the posts
              > on this list. I was able to see a picture of it on their web site.
              It looked
              > OK. I found out there was a Harbor Freight store about 40 miles
              from me so I
              > drove over there to see if I could get a first hand look a the vise
              before
              > it got here. They had a green mill/drill that looked a lot like my
              Grizzly
              > G1006. At least it was the same color and looked like it from a
              distance.
              > Upon closer inspection, it was a piece of crap! The x-y table would
              barely
              > move. The castings were poor at best. The quill depth stop
              indicator looked
              > like it had be hit with a fork lift. It had a smaller table on it
              than my
              > Grizzly. The crank to raise and lower the head did not work at all.
              I was
              > very disappointed in what I saw. It did not seem to have any
              numbers on it
              > or a label to show the country of origin. It was priced at $999.99
              So I'm
              > not sure this is the HF milldrill everyone on the list has. They
              did not
              > have the vise that I and ordered on display but the ones the did
              have on
              > display were also crap. When I got home I called Harbor Freight and
              canceled my vise order.

              <snipped>

              > Al

              Al,

              Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
              recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
              is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2." Fit, finish, and function are
              impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
              purchase.)

              If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
              $404.00 with free shipping. While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
              mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.

              John
            • Jerry@astroknobs
              John/Al, I started the don t knock HF machines thread and I really meant it. The 6 Kurt style milling vise is one place where I can heartily recommend HF.
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
                John/Al,
                I started the "don't knock HF machines" thread and I really meant it.  The 6" Kurt style milling vise is one place where I can heartily recommend HF.  I bought their vise.  Contrary to the photo on the website it DOES come with a rotating base.  It is very accurate and the finish is very nice.  Free shipping is what makes it a great deal.  About $100 to your door.  --Jerry
                 
                 

                Al,

                Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2."  Fit, finish, and function are
                impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                purchase.) 

                If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                $404.00 with free shipping.  While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.

                John





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              • Al Garvin
                John, Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the HF vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and have it sent
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
                  John,
                  Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the HF
                  vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and have it
                  sent back. I ordered a
                  G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6" vise was
                  just a little
                  too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for now and it
                  is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be just right.
                  It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a 1/2" thick
                  Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by off
                  setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                  I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only have 4
                  pieces to do and
                  as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this time. I
                  ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a couple of
                  weeks ago, who sells used
                  machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea. But I didn't
                  have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary tables which
                  he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info on vises.
                  Al





                  > Al,
                  >
                  > Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                  > recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                  > is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2." Fit, finish, and function are
                  > impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                  > purchase.)
                  >
                  > If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                  > $404.00 with free shipping. While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                  > mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Jerry@astroknobs
                  Al, I agree that the 6 vise is a little big for the machine but I m willing to put up with that to have the larger clamping capacity. so far it hasn t been a
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
                    Al,
                    I agree that the 6" vise is a little big for the machine but I'm willing to put up with that to have the larger clamping capacity.  so far it hasn't been a problem at all.
                     
                    I have to comment on your plans to refuse shipment.  I do not believe it is right to refuse shipment on an item you ordered--especially when the company has paid $30-60 to ship it to you and my get charged again to ship it back.  Your un-ethical actions will drive up prices for all of us.  Please to the right thing and keep the vise you ordered or pay the shipping yourself.
                     
                    You can probably make the arches just fine on the swivel base vise but feed will be difficult.  I would probably drill a sequence of holes and then start trying to manually feed to knock off the corners.  Use a smaller endmill than the size of the groove you need, then reclamp at a slightly different radius so you only cut one side at a time for your finish cut.  Using a vise stop that you can measure with a depth mic or calipers and then move by .005 to .010 will ensure you get a nice cut.
                     
                    --Jerry
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Al Garvin
                    Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:19 AM
                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST)


                    John,
                        Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the HF
                    vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and have it
                    sent back. I ordered a
                    G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6" vise was
                    just a little
                    too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for now and it
                    is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be just right.
                    It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a 1/2" thick
                    Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by off
                    setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                    I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only have 4
                    pieces to do and
                    as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this time. I
                    ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a couple of
                    weeks ago, who sells used
                    machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea. But I didn't
                    have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary tables which
                    he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info on vises.
                    Al





                    > Al,
                    >
                    > Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                    > recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                    > is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2."  Fit, finish, and function are
                    > impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                    > purchase.)
                    >
                    > If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                    > $404.00 with free shipping.  While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                    > mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.
                    >
                    > John
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >



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                  • Dan
                    I highly agree with Jerry. The HF 6 vise is a great value; great tool! I d ecommend it to anyone! -Dan Green Bay ... From: Jerry@astroknobs
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002

                      I highly agree with Jerry.  The HF 6” vise is a great value; great tool!  I’d ecommend it to anyone!

                       

                      -Dan

                      Green Bay

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Jerry@astroknobs [mailto:jer@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 10:28 AM
                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST)

                       

                      John/Al,

                      I started the "don't knock HF machines" thread and I really meant it.  The 6" Kurt style milling vise is one place where I can heartily recommend HF.  I bought their vise.  Contrary to the photo on the website it DOES come with a rotating base.  It is very accurate and the finish is very nice.  Free shipping is what makes it a great deal.  About $100 to your door.  --Jerry

                       

                       


                      Al,

                      Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                      recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                      is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2."  Fit, finish, and function are
                      impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                      purchase.) 

                      If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                      $404.00 with free shipping.  While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                      mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.

                      John




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                    • johnttoner
                      ... for the HF ... and have it ... vise was ... now and it ... just right. ... 1/2 thick ... off ... have 4 ... time. I ... couple of ... But I didn t ...
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
                        > John,
                        > Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order
                        for the HF
                        > vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it
                        and have it
                        > sent back. I ordered a
                        > G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6"
                        vise was
                        > just a little
                        > too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for
                        now and it
                        > is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be
                        just right.
                        > It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a
                        1/2" thick
                        > Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by
                        off
                        > setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                        > I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only
                        have 4
                        > pieces to do and
                        > as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this
                        time. I
                        > ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a
                        couple of
                        > weeks ago, who sells used
                        > machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea.
                        But I didn't
                        > have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary
                        tables which
                        > he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info
                        on vises.
                        > Al
                        >
                        Al,

                        The swivel is a nice feature, I'm sure the Grizzly will be
                        satisfactory. Five inches should be about perfect. The main reason
                        I went with the six was to have the 7 1/2 opening. Wish I'd known
                        about the Kurts as I work in Los Angeles. Maybe a rotary table down
                        the road (Christmas is coming, right!)

                        If you're in the L.A. area, I know a great place for end mills and
                        other tooling. All U.S. made, aerospace surplus - not worn out stuff
                        either, stuff that came from Douglas and Northrup after they cut back
                        on manufacturing. End mils, drills, and reamers are $4.00/lb.

                        John
                      • Al Garvin
                        Jerry, I agree with your comment about refusing the vise. But I ordered the vise on Labor Day, a holiday Monday, and called them at 9AM on Wed. They said it
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
                          Jerry,
                          I agree with your comment about refusing the vise. But I ordered the vise
                          on Labor Day, a holiday Monday, and called them at 9AM on Wed. They said it
                          had already shipped. I asked them for a tracking number as I was going to
                          try to stop it before it left the building but did not have one. It was the
                          Harbor Freight reps suggestion that I just refuse it when it arrived. I
                          think I will (as you suggest) accept the shipment
                          and put it up for sale to someone locally in the San Francisco bay area or
                          use it as trading material for a rotary table. I was a little concerned
                          with the fact that the vise sold for $99 and I know shipping is about
                          $30-60, which means the vise is worth about $39 to $69 dollars. How can they
                          sell that much pig iron for that price? Not having the ability to see it in
                          person before I ordered it was a mistake, and one of the problems with using
                          the internet to buy tools. I succumbed to the lure of the low price. As my
                          uncle who was an automobile mechanic for 40 years told me many years ago,"
                          You may pay a higher price for quality tools, but you will only have to pay
                          it once." After I compared the quality of the mill/drill at Harbor Freight
                          with the quality of the Grizzly G1006, I decided to stay away from Harbor
                          Freight for any of my future tool purchases.

                          Thanks for the tip on machining the curves that I need to cut.
                          Al
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
                          To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 12:06 PM
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                          Please - RUST)


                          Al,
                          I agree that the 6" vise is a little big for the machine but I'm willing to
                          put up with that to have the larger clamping capacity. so far it hasn't
                          been a problem at all.

                          I have to comment on your plans to refuse shipment. I do not believe it is
                          right to refuse shipment on an item you ordered--especially when the company
                          has paid $30-60 to ship it to you and my get charged again to ship it back.
                          Your un-ethical actions will drive up prices for all of us. Please to the
                          right thing and keep the vise you ordered or pay the shipping yourself.

                          You can probably make the arches just fine on the swivel base vise but feed
                          will be difficult. I would probably drill a sequence of holes and then
                          start trying to manually feed to knock off the corners. Use a smaller
                          endmill than the size of the groove you need, then reclamp at a slightly
                          different radius so you only cut one side at a time for your finish cut.
                          Using a vise stop that you can measure with a depth mic or calipers and then
                          move by .005 to .010 will ensure you get a nice cut.

                          --Jerry
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Al Garvin
                          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:19 AM
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                          Please - RUST)



                          John,
                          Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the HF
                          vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and have
                          it
                          sent back. I ordered a
                          G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6" vise was
                          just a little
                          too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for now and
                          it
                          is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be just
                          right.
                          It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a 1/2"
                          thick
                          Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by off
                          setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                          I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only have 4
                          pieces to do and
                          as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this time. I
                          ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a couple of
                          weeks ago, who sells used
                          machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea. But I
                          didn't
                          have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary tables which
                          he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info on vises.
                          Al





                          > Al,
                          >
                          > Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                          > recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                          > is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2." Fit, finish, and function are
                          > impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                          > purchase.)
                          >
                          > If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                          > $404.00 with free shipping. While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                          > mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >


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                        • philteague
                          After I compared the quality of the mill/drill at Harbor Freight ... The G1006 mill is a Rong Fu machine with a price to match. It is nicely finished. Grizzly
                          Message 12 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
                            After I compared the quality of the mill/drill at Harbor Freight
                            > with the quality of the Grizzly G1006, I decided to stay away from
                            >Harbor Freight for any of my future tool purchases.

                            The G1006 mill is a Rong Fu machine with a price to match. It is
                            nicely finished. Grizzly supports all of their products well and you
                            might expect to pay more for this support (as well as a better
                            manual).

                            Grizzly also sells a G3358 model mill/drill for $995 plus $125
                            shipping which is the same as the HF 33686 which can be purchased as
                            little as $799 plus $5.95 shipping. You don't get the same support
                            from HF as you do from Grizzly. However, the machines are virtually
                            identical. Judging the quality of anything by the display machines
                            they have in most of the stores is misleading. They still have the
                            same 12 X 36 lathe on display as when the store opened in our
                            neighborhood. It's missing handles and has a bent leadscrew. A friend
                            bought a new one at the same store and it was in perfect condition.

                            I purchased a 33686 mail order and it arrived in excellent working
                            condition. I also own a Grizzly G4015 3in1 and it works fine too.

                            BTW, I would prefer the Grizzly 5" vise that you are ordering. I
                            think it will fit your machine better than the 6" one.
                          • Jerry@astroknobs
                            Al, Don t assume your comparison of one HF tool and one grizzley tool is representative. both companies use many suppliers, often the same suppliers. My HF
                            Message 13 of 25 , Sep 7, 2002
                              Al,
                              Don't assume your comparison of one HF tool and one grizzley tool is representative.  both companies use many suppliers, often the same suppliers.  My HF mill drill is the 2119 made by Rong Fu in Taiwan and is superb.  HF switched to a chinese maker and now the quality may be a little less (but still acceptable in my mind).  You pay more for Grizzley's service and Taiwanese machine.  (Counldn't you could just buy a Rong Fu for about the same price?)
                               
                              As far as my guess about the shipping:  before I bought mine from HF I priced them elsewhere .  The vise sells for around $100 most places but shipping is not free.  The quotes I got ranged from $40 to $80.  I hope HF is getting a good deal on shipping or they're losing money on this vise, in my opinion.
                               
                              Anyway, I have a grizzley 16" woodcutting vertical bandsaw that I like a lot.  I like it because I got it used for $300 and it is very heavy and cuts very well.  However, it required major work to get it tuned up just like most chinese machinery. 
                               
                              On the vises, I'd bet a quarter that HF and Grizzley use the same supplier--from China.  Not a problem however, since they are both very nice.
                               
                              I'm glad you're leaning toward accepting the vise but I see your reasoning since HF suggested it.  that is going beyond the call of duty in customer service if you ask me.  Personally, I think you'd be better off to keep the 6" vise.  i have it and I'm glad.  More mass = better cuts.  also, I'm glad to have the extra clamping ability.  and it comes with a really massive rotary base.  Secondly, at the price you're getting the vise for you could probably sell it for a profit. 
                               
                              Good luck,
                              jerry
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Al Garvin
                              Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 4:29 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST)

                              Jerry,
                                 I agree with your comment about refusing the vise. But I ordered the vise
                              on Labor Day, a holiday Monday, and called them at 9AM on Wed. They said it
                              had already  shipped. I asked them for a tracking number as I was going to
                              try to stop it before it left the building but did not have one. It was the
                              Harbor Freight reps suggestion that I just refuse it when it arrived. I
                              think I will (as you suggest) accept the shipment
                              and put it up for sale to someone locally in the San Francisco bay area or
                              use it as trading material for a rotary table. I  was a little concerned
                              with the fact that the vise sold for $99 and I know shipping is about
                              $30-60, which means the vise is worth about $39 to $69 dollars. How can they
                              sell that much pig iron for that price? Not having the ability to see it in
                              person before I ordered it was a mistake, and one of the problems with using
                              the internet to buy tools.  I succumbed to the lure of the low price. As my
                              uncle who was an automobile mechanic for 40 years told  me many years ago,"
                              You may pay a higher price for quality tools, but you will only have to pay
                              it once." After I compared the quality of the mill/drill at Harbor Freight
                              with the quality of the Grizzly G1006, I decided to stay away from Harbor
                              Freight for any of my future tool purchases.

                              Thanks for the tip on machining the curves that I need to cut.
                              Al
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
                              To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 12:06 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                              Please - RUST)


                              Al,
                              I agree that the 6" vise is a little big for the machine but I'm willing to
                              put up with that to have the larger clamping capacity.  so far it hasn't
                              been a problem at all.

                              I have to comment on your plans to refuse shipment.  I do not believe it is
                              right to refuse shipment on an item you ordered--especially when the company
                              has paid $30-60 to ship it to you and my get charged again to ship it back.
                              Your un-ethical actions will drive up prices for all of us.  Please to the
                              right thing and keep the vise you ordered or pay the shipping yourself.

                              You can probably make the arches just fine on the swivel base vise but feed
                              will be difficult.  I would probably drill a sequence of holes and then
                              start trying to manually feed to knock off the corners.  Use a smaller
                              endmill than the size of the groove you need, then reclamp at a slightly
                              different radius so you only cut one side at a time for your finish cut.
                              Using a vise stop that you can measure with a depth mic or calipers and then
                              move by .005 to .010 will ensure you get a nice cut.

                              --Jerry
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Al Garvin
                                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:19 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                              Please - RUST)



                                John,
                                    Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the HF
                                vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and have
                              it
                                sent back. I ordered a
                                G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6" vise was
                                just a little
                                too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for now and
                              it
                                is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be just
                              right.
                                It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a 1/2"
                              thick
                                Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by off
                                setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                                I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only have 4
                                pieces to do and
                                as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this time. I
                                ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a couple of
                                weeks ago, who sells used
                                machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea. But I
                              didn't
                                have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary tables which
                                he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info on vises.
                                Al





                                > Al,
                                >
                                > Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                                > recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                                > is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2."  Fit, finish, and function are
                                > impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                                > purchase.)
                                >
                                > If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                                > $404.00 with free shipping.  While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                                > mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.
                                >
                                > John
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >


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                            • Marv Frankel
                              John, Now that you have my attention, how about the name and address of the place that sells the surplus hardware. It almost sounds like Cal-Aero, just off the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Sep 8, 2002
                                John,
                                Now that you have my attention, how about the name and address of the
                                place that sells the surplus hardware. It almost sounds like Cal-Aero, just
                                off the 105 Freeway, but maybe you have a different place.

                                Marv Frankel
                                Los Angeles (near LAX)

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "johnttoner" <jttoner@...>
                                To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:20 PM
                                Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                Please - RUST)


                                >
                                > > John,
                                > > Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order
                                > for the HF
                                > > vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it
                                > and have it
                                > > sent back. I ordered a
                                > > G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6"
                                > vise was
                                > > just a little
                                > > too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for
                                > now and it
                                > > is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be
                                > just right.
                                > > It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a
                                > 1/2" thick
                                > > Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by
                                > off
                                > > setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                                > > I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only
                                > have 4
                                > > pieces to do and
                                > > as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this
                                > time. I
                                > > ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a
                                > couple of
                                > > weeks ago, who sells used
                                > > machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea.
                                > But I didn't
                                > > have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary
                                > tables which
                                > > he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info
                                > on vises.
                                > > Al
                                > >
                                > Al,
                                >
                                > The swivel is a nice feature, I'm sure the Grizzly will be
                                > satisfactory. Five inches should be about perfect. The main reason
                                > I went with the six was to have the 7 1/2 opening. Wish I'd known
                                > about the Kurts as I work in Los Angeles. Maybe a rotary table down
                                > the road (Christmas is coming, right!)
                                >
                                > If you're in the L.A. area, I know a great place for end mills and
                                > other tooling. All U.S. made, aerospace surplus - not worn out stuff
                                > either, stuff that came from Douglas and Northrup after they cut back
                                > on manufacturing. End mils, drills, and reamers are $4.00/lb.
                                >
                                > John
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                              • Marv Frankel
                                Al, I just uploaded 3 photos of a rig I made a week or so ago, for cutting a radius on the end of a number of pieces of steel tubing. I did it this way,
                                Message 15 of 25 , Sep 8, 2002
                                  Al,
                                  I just uploaded 3 photos of a rig I made a week or so ago, for cutting a
                                  radius on the end of a number of pieces of steel tubing. I did it this way,
                                  because I have no rotary table, and it worked like a charm. The pictures are
                                  posted in our Yahoo group, in an album called "Marv's Pix". If you need
                                  further direction, send me a sketch of the piece you need, and I'll try to
                                  help you make a jig to cut your pieces.

                                  Marv Frankel
                                  dcdziner@...
                                  Los Angeles

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Al Garvin" <agarvin@...>
                                  To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 4:29 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                  Please - RUST)


                                  > Jerry,
                                  > I agree with your comment about refusing the vise. But I ordered the
                                  vise
                                  > on Labor Day, a holiday Monday, and called them at 9AM on Wed. They said
                                  it
                                  > had already shipped. I asked them for a tracking number as I was going to
                                  > try to stop it before it left the building but did not have one. It was
                                  the
                                  > Harbor Freight reps suggestion that I just refuse it when it arrived. I
                                  > think I will (as you suggest) accept the shipment
                                  > and put it up for sale to someone locally in the San Francisco bay area or
                                  > use it as trading material for a rotary table. I was a little concerned
                                  > with the fact that the vise sold for $99 and I know shipping is about
                                  > $30-60, which means the vise is worth about $39 to $69 dollars. How can
                                  they
                                  > sell that much pig iron for that price? Not having the ability to see it
                                  in
                                  > person before I ordered it was a mistake, and one of the problems with
                                  using
                                  > the internet to buy tools. I succumbed to the lure of the low price. As
                                  my
                                  > uncle who was an automobile mechanic for 40 years told me many years
                                  ago,"
                                  > You may pay a higher price for quality tools, but you will only have to
                                  pay
                                  > it once." After I compared the quality of the mill/drill at Harbor Freight
                                  > with the quality of the Grizzly G1006, I decided to stay away from Harbor
                                  > Freight for any of my future tool purchases.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the tip on machining the curves that I need to cut.
                                  > Al
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
                                  > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 12:06 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                  > Please - RUST)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Al,
                                  > I agree that the 6" vise is a little big for the machine but I'm willing
                                  to
                                  > put up with that to have the larger clamping capacity. so far it hasn't
                                  > been a problem at all.
                                  >
                                  > I have to comment on your plans to refuse shipment. I do not believe it
                                  is
                                  > right to refuse shipment on an item you ordered--especially when the
                                  company
                                  > has paid $30-60 to ship it to you and my get charged again to ship it
                                  back.
                                  > Your un-ethical actions will drive up prices for all of us. Please to the
                                  > right thing and keep the vise you ordered or pay the shipping yourself.
                                  >
                                  > You can probably make the arches just fine on the swivel base vise but
                                  feed
                                  > will be difficult. I would probably drill a sequence of holes and then
                                  > start trying to manually feed to knock off the corners. Use a smaller
                                  > endmill than the size of the groove you need, then reclamp at a slightly
                                  > different radius so you only cut one side at a time for your finish cut.
                                  > Using a vise stop that you can measure with a depth mic or calipers and
                                  then
                                  > move by .005 to .010 will ensure you get a nice cut.
                                  >
                                  > --Jerry
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Al Garvin
                                  > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:19 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                  > Please - RUST)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > John,
                                  > Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the
                                  HF
                                  > vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and
                                  have
                                  > it
                                  > sent back. I ordered a
                                  > G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6" vise was
                                  > just a little
                                  > too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for now and
                                  > it
                                  > is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be just
                                  > right.
                                  > It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a 1/2"
                                  > thick
                                  > Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by off
                                  > setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                                  > I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only have 4
                                  > pieces to do and
                                  > as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this time.
                                  I
                                  > ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a couple
                                  of
                                  > weeks ago, who sells used
                                  > machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea. But I
                                  > didn't
                                  > have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary tables
                                  which
                                  > he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info on
                                  vises.
                                  > Al
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > Al,
                                  > >
                                  > > Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                                  > > recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                                  > > is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2." Fit, finish, and function are
                                  > > impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                                  > > purchase.)
                                  > >
                                  > > If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                                  > > $404.00 with free shipping. While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                                  > > mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.
                                  > >
                                  > > John
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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                                • Mario L Vitale
                                  Gentlemen, With all this discussion about Asian vices I thought it would be worthwhile to mention that there is an excellent article in Projects In Metal
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Sep 8, 2002
                                    Gentlemen,
                                        With all this discussion about Asian vices I thought it would be worthwhile to mention that there is an excellent article in Projects In Metal magazine (July 1998, Vol. 11, N0.3) describing, in detail, how to "tune up" one of these vices. 
                                        Before anyone gets rid of one of them, it would be worth reading the article.
                                        Hope this is helpful.....................   
                                                                                                                                    Mario
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 10:50 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST)

                                    Al,
                                    Don't assume your comparison of one HF tool and one grizzley tool is representative.  both companies use many suppliers, often the same suppliers.  My HF mill drill is the 2119 made by Rong Fu in Taiwan and is superb.  HF switched to a chinese maker and now the quality may be a little less (but still acceptable in my mind).  You pay more for Grizzley's service and Taiwanese machine.  (Counldn't you could just buy a Rong Fu for about the same price?)
                                     
                                    As far as my guess about the shipping:  before I bought mine from HF I priced them elsewhere .  The vise sells for around $100 most places but shipping is not free.  The quotes I got ranged from $40 to $80.  I hope HF is getting a good deal on shipping or they're losing money on this vise, in my opinion.
                                     
                                    Anyway, I have a grizzley 16" woodcutting vertical bandsaw that I like a lot.  I like it because I got it used for $300 and it is very heavy and cuts very well.  However, it required major work to get it tuned up just like most chinese machinery. 
                                     
                                    On the vises, I'd bet a quarter that HF and Grizzley use the same supplier--from China.  Not a problem however, since they are both very nice.
                                     
                                    I'm glad you're leaning toward accepting the vise but I see your reasoning since HF suggested it.  that is going beyond the call of duty in customer service if you ask me.  Personally, I think you'd be better off to keep the 6" vise.  i have it and I'm glad.  More mass = better cuts.  also, I'm glad to have the extra clamping ability.  and it comes with a really massive rotary base.  Secondly, at the price you're getting the vise for you could probably sell it for a profit. 
                                     
                                    Good luck,
                                    jerry
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Al Garvin
                                    Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 4:29 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST)

                                    Jerry,
                                       I agree with your comment about refusing the vise. But I ordered the vise
                                    on Labor Day, a holiday Monday, and called them at 9AM on Wed. They said it
                                    had already  shipped. I asked them for a tracking number as I was going to
                                    try to stop it before it left the building but did not have one. It was the
                                    Harbor Freight reps suggestion that I just refuse it when it arrived. I
                                    think I will (as you suggest) accept the shipment
                                    and put it up for sale to someone locally in the San Francisco bay area or
                                    use it as trading material for a rotary table. I  was a little concerned
                                    with the fact that the vise sold for $99 and I know shipping is about
                                    $30-60, which means the vise is worth about $39 to $69 dollars. How can they
                                    sell that much pig iron for that price? Not having the ability to see it in
                                    person before I ordered it was a mistake, and one of the problems with using
                                    the internet to buy tools.  I succumbed to the lure of the low price. As my
                                    uncle who was an automobile mechanic for 40 years told  me many years ago,"
                                    You may pay a higher price for quality tools, but you will only have to pay
                                    it once." After I compared the quality of the mill/drill at Harbor Freight
                                    with the quality of the Grizzly G1006, I decided to stay away from Harbor
                                    Freight for any of my future tool purchases.

                                    Thanks for the tip on machining the curves that I need to cut.
                                    Al
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
                                    To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 12:06 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                    Please - RUST)


                                    Al,
                                    I agree that the 6" vise is a little big for the machine but I'm willing to
                                    put up with that to have the larger clamping capacity.  so far it hasn't
                                    been a problem at all.

                                    I have to comment on your plans to refuse shipment.  I do not believe it is
                                    right to refuse shipment on an item you ordered--especially when the company
                                    has paid $30-60 to ship it to you and my get charged again to ship it back.
                                    Your un-ethical actions will drive up prices for all of us.  Please to the
                                    right thing and keep the vise you ordered or pay the shipping yourself.

                                    You can probably make the arches just fine on the swivel base vise but feed
                                    will be difficult.  I would probably drill a sequence of holes and then
                                    start trying to manually feed to knock off the corners.  Use a smaller
                                    endmill than the size of the groove you need, then reclamp at a slightly
                                    different radius so you only cut one side at a time for your finish cut.
                                    Using a vise stop that you can measure with a depth mic or calipers and then
                                    move by .005 to .010 will ensure you get a nice cut.

                                    --Jerry
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Al Garvin
                                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:19 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                    Please - RUST)



                                      John,
                                          Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the HF
                                      vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and have
                                    it
                                      sent back. I ordered a
                                      G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6" vise was
                                      just a little
                                      too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for now and
                                    it
                                      is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be just
                                    right.
                                      It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a 1/2"
                                    thick
                                      Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by off
                                      setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                                      I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only have 4
                                      pieces to do and
                                      as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this time. I
                                      ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a couple of
                                      weeks ago, who sells used
                                      machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea. But I
                                    didn't
                                      have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary tables which
                                      he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info on vises.
                                      Al





                                      > Al,
                                      >
                                      > Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                                      > recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                                      > is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2."  Fit, finish, and function are
                                      > impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                                      > purchase.)
                                      >
                                      > If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                                      > $404.00 with free shipping.  While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                                      > mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well spent.
                                      >
                                      > John
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >


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                                  • Al Garvin
                                    Marv, Thanks for the offer. I looked at your pics and it gave me some ideas on how I am going to approch this project. If I get stuck I ll be sure to drop you
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Sep 8, 2002
                                      Marv,
                                      Thanks for the offer. I looked at your pics and it gave me some ideas on
                                      how I am
                                      going to approch this project. If I get stuck I'll be sure to drop you a
                                      note.
                                      Thanks again,
                                      Al
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Marv Frankel" <Dcdziner@...>
                                      To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 3:37 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                      Please - RUST)


                                      > Al,
                                      > I just uploaded 3 photos of a rig I made a week or so ago, for cutting
                                      a
                                      > radius on the end of a number of pieces of steel tubing. I did it this
                                      way,
                                      > because I have no rotary table, and it worked like a charm. The pictures
                                      are
                                      > posted in our Yahoo group, in an album called "Marv's Pix". If you need
                                      > further direction, send me a sketch of the piece you need, and I'll try to
                                      > help you make a jig to cut your pieces.
                                      >
                                      > Marv Frankel
                                      > dcdziner@...
                                      > Los Angeles
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "Al Garvin" <agarvin@...>
                                      > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 4:29 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                      > Please - RUST)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > Jerry,
                                      > > I agree with your comment about refusing the vise. But I ordered the
                                      > vise
                                      > > on Labor Day, a holiday Monday, and called them at 9AM on Wed. They said
                                      > it
                                      > > had already shipped. I asked them for a tracking number as I was going
                                      to
                                      > > try to stop it before it left the building but did not have one. It was
                                      > the
                                      > > Harbor Freight reps suggestion that I just refuse it when it arrived. I
                                      > > think I will (as you suggest) accept the shipment
                                      > > and put it up for sale to someone locally in the San Francisco bay area
                                      or
                                      > > use it as trading material for a rotary table. I was a little concerned
                                      > > with the fact that the vise sold for $99 and I know shipping is about
                                      > > $30-60, which means the vise is worth about $39 to $69 dollars. How can
                                      > they
                                      > > sell that much pig iron for that price? Not having the ability to see it
                                      > in
                                      > > person before I ordered it was a mistake, and one of the problems with
                                      > using
                                      > > the internet to buy tools. I succumbed to the lure of the low price. As
                                      > my
                                      > > uncle who was an automobile mechanic for 40 years told me many years
                                      > ago,"
                                      > > You may pay a higher price for quality tools, but you will only have to
                                      > pay
                                      > > it once." After I compared the quality of the mill/drill at Harbor
                                      Freight
                                      > > with the quality of the Grizzly G1006, I decided to stay away from
                                      Harbor
                                      > > Freight for any of my future tool purchases.
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks for the tip on machining the curves that I need to cut.
                                      > > Al
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: "Jerry@astroknobs" <jer@...>
                                      > > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 12:06 PM
                                      > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                      > > Please - RUST)
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Al,
                                      > > I agree that the 6" vise is a little big for the machine but I'm willing
                                      > to
                                      > > put up with that to have the larger clamping capacity. so far it hasn't
                                      > > been a problem at all.
                                      > >
                                      > > I have to comment on your plans to refuse shipment. I do not believe it
                                      > is
                                      > > right to refuse shipment on an item you ordered--especially when the
                                      > company
                                      > > has paid $30-60 to ship it to you and my get charged again to ship it
                                      > back.
                                      > > Your un-ethical actions will drive up prices for all of us. Please to
                                      the
                                      > > right thing and keep the vise you ordered or pay the shipping yourself.
                                      > >
                                      > > You can probably make the arches just fine on the swivel base vise but
                                      > feed
                                      > > will be difficult. I would probably drill a sequence of holes and then
                                      > > start trying to manually feed to knock off the corners. Use a smaller
                                      > > endmill than the size of the groove you need, then reclamp at a slightly
                                      > > different radius so you only cut one side at a time for your finish cut.
                                      > > Using a vise stop that you can measure with a depth mic or calipers and
                                      > then
                                      > > move by .005 to .010 will ensure you get a nice cut.
                                      > >
                                      > > --Jerry
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: Al Garvin
                                      > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:19 AM
                                      > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 --
                                      Help
                                      > > Please - RUST)
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > John,
                                      > > Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order for the
                                      > HF
                                      > > vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it and
                                      > have
                                      > > it
                                      > > sent back. I ordered a
                                      > > G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6" vise
                                      was
                                      > > just a little
                                      > > too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for now
                                      and
                                      > > it
                                      > > is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be just
                                      > > right.
                                      > > It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a 1/2"
                                      > > thick
                                      > > Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by off
                                      > > setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                                      > > I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only have 4
                                      > > pieces to do and
                                      > > as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this
                                      time.
                                      > I
                                      > > ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a
                                      couple
                                      > of
                                      > > weeks ago, who sells used
                                      > > machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea. But I
                                      > > didn't
                                      > > have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary tables
                                      > which
                                      > > he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info on
                                      > vises.
                                      > > Al
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > > Al,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Concerning the vice, if you have not yet purchased one, I can highly
                                      > > > recommend the 6" Taiwanese "Wilton" I recently purchased. Jaw depth
                                      > > > is 1 3/4" and opening is 7 1/2." Fit, finish, and function are
                                      > > > impecable, though I paid much too much for it (it was an "impulse"
                                      > > > purchase.)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > If I'd had more money I'd have gone for the "Kurt" from Enco at
                                      > > > $404.00 with free shipping. While that's almost 1/2 the price of a
                                      > > > mil/drill, I believe mone spent on a quality vice is money well
                                      spent.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > John
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                      > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
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                                      > >
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                                      > >
                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                      > >
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                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      >
                                    • johnttoner
                                      ... address of the ... Aero, just ... Marv, Yes, Cal Aero, but it is loacted at: 13840 Paramount Blvd, Paramount (562)634-0383. I was not aware of the
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Sep 8, 2002
                                        --- In mill_drill@y..., Marv Frankel <Dcdziner@p...> wrote:
                                        > John,
                                        > Now that you have my attention, how about the name and
                                        address of the
                                        > place that sells the surplus hardware. It almost sounds like Cal-
                                        Aero, just
                                        > off the 105 Freeway, but maybe you have a different place.
                                        >
                                        > Marv Frankel
                                        > Los Angeles (near LAX)
                                        >
                                        Marv,

                                        Yes, Cal Aero, but it is loacted at: 13840 Paramount Blvd, Paramount
                                        (562)634-0383. I was not aware of the location near LAX. Could you
                                        pass that one on to me? I work in So. Central and am frequently in
                                        Inglewood.

                                        Thanks,
                                        John
                                      • Marv Frankel
                                        John, Sorry if I mislead you. I live near LAX, in the county, between Inglewood, Westchester & Culver city. The Cal-Aero is on Paramount Blvd. Thanks, Marv
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Sep 8, 2002
                                          John,
                                          Sorry if I mislead you. I live near LAX, in the county, between
                                          Inglewood, Westchester & Culver city. The Cal-Aero is on Paramount Blvd.

                                          Thanks,
                                          Marv

                                          Marv Frankel
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "johnttoner" <jttoner@...>
                                          To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 9:24 AM
                                          Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help
                                          Please - RUST)


                                          > --- In mill_drill@y..., Marv Frankel <Dcdziner@p...> wrote:
                                          > > John,
                                          > > Now that you have my attention, how about the name and
                                          > address of the
                                          > > place that sells the surplus hardware. It almost sounds like Cal-
                                          > Aero, just
                                          > > off the 105 Freeway, but maybe you have a different place.
                                          > >
                                          > > Marv Frankel
                                          > > Los Angeles (near LAX)
                                          > >
                                          > Marv,
                                          >
                                          > Yes, Cal Aero, but it is loacted at: 13840 Paramount Blvd, Paramount
                                          > (562)634-0383. I was not aware of the location near LAX. Could you
                                          > pass that one on to me? I work in So. Central and am frequently in
                                          > Inglewood.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks,
                                          > John
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Mitch Davister
                                          John, What s the contact for the surplus mills, etc? Sometime in the near future I will need to get some stuff like that. Thanks. -Mitch Davister ... From:
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Sep 8, 2002
                                            John,
                                             
                                            What's the contact for the surplus mills, etc?  Sometime in the near future I will need to get some stuff like that.  Thanks.
                                             
                                            -Mitch Davister
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 4:20 PM
                                            Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Vice - ( Was Trouble with HF 33686 -- Help Please - RUST)


                                            >   John,
                                            >       Thanks for the tip on the Wilton vise. I canceled my order
                                            for the HF
                                            >   vise but not before they had shipped it. I am going to refuse it
                                            and have it
                                            >   sent back. I ordered a
                                            >   G7154 5" vise from Grizzly. Several people had said that the 6"
                                            vise was
                                            >   just a little
                                            >   too large for the table and I am using a 4" drill press vise for
                                            now and it
                                            >   is just a little too small for my needs. I hope the 5"er will be
                                            just right.
                                            >   It comes with a swiveling base. I have a need to cut an arc in a
                                            1/2" thick
                                            >   Alu. piece. I am going to try to do this using the swivel base by
                                            off
                                            >   setting the work on a plate at the desired radius.
                                            >   I think what I may need to do this is a rotary table but I only
                                            have 4
                                            >   pieces to do and
                                            >   as of yet don't see enough jobs to justify a rotary table at this
                                            time. I
                                            >   ran into a guy from the LA area at "Hot August Nights" in Reno a
                                            couple of
                                            >   weeks ago, who sells used
                                            >   machine tools. He had a couple of real KURT vises for $200. ea.
                                            But I didn't
                                            >   have the cash with me at the time. He also had several rotary
                                            tables which
                                            >   he was asking 300 to 400 dollars for. Again thanks for the info
                                            on vises.
                                            >   Al
                                            >
                                            Al,

                                            The swivel is a nice feature, I'm sure the Grizzly will be
                                            satisfactory.  Five inches should be about perfect.  The main reason
                                            I went with the six was to have the  7 1/2 opening.  Wish I'd known
                                            about the Kurts as I work in Los Angeles.  Maybe a rotary table down
                                            the road (Christmas is coming, right!) 

                                            If you're in the L.A. area, I know a great place for end mills and
                                            other tooling.  All U.S. made, aerospace surplus - not worn out stuff
                                            either, stuff that came from Douglas and Northrup after they cut back
                                            on manufacturing.  End mils, drills, and reamers are $4.00/lb.

                                            John




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