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zay7032g just go a used one and having problems

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  • dan tharp
    zay7032g just got a used one and having problems initial run: loud but seems to run fine starting to use it: Thus far I have only milled a little mild steel
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 18, 2013
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      zay7032g just got a used one and having problems

      initial run:
      loud but seems to run fine

      starting to use it:

      Thus far I have only milled a little mild steel and also some 1in acrylic plastic, with good results, but now:

      I only have a few session total for about 2.5hr total time since I got it
      At times not to loud and pretty smooth
      At times very loud and vibrates. seems like gear box is grinding, and pops the 110v 2amp breaker (only the mill is powered by breaker)
      Does not seem to mater which gears I have it in
      Now it only run takes seconds to pop the breaker  (total run time since I got it is less than 2.5 hr)

      was not low on oil, but I have changed the oil and tried both 90 weight and 68 weight w/ no real impact
      I also loosened the motor bolts and shifted the motor a little and re-tightened a few times - but no change

      I now have the motor pulled and seems to run ok in a vice... 
      I have pulled the gear box apart and gears look pretty good... a little wear on edges of some but not much

      the lower main bearing in the gear box (at bottom of motor connector shaft does has a very little wiggle if moved back and forth from top of the shaft (part # 1-41 the bottom bearing is: 80202) 

      Now that I have gone this far... Please advise me on what I should do... I really want a nice running mill.
      Also what parts to get, where to get them, likely cost...

      Thanks so much for any help/advice!


      Dan
      972-365-6161

    • mn_metalbutcher
      Dan, Check out these two threads. They talk about rebuilding the head on the RF45 type mills. There s a lot of good information in those threads that could be
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 18, 2013
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        Dan,

        Check out these two threads. They talk about rebuilding the head on the RF45 type mills. There's a lot of good information in those threads that could be of use to you.

        http://www.metalworkingfun.com/showthread.php?tid=368
        http://www.metalworkingfun.com/showthread.php?tid=405

        Hope this helps some.

        Ed

        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, dan tharp <dbthar@...> wrote:
        >
        > zay7032g just got a used one and having problems
        >
        > initial run:
        > loud but seems to run fine
        >
        > starting to use it:
        >
        > Thus far I have only milled a little mild steel and also some 1in acrylic
        > plastic, with good results, but now:
        >
        > I only have a few session total for about 2.5hr total time since I got it
        > At times not to loud and pretty smooth
        > At times very loud and vibrates. seems like gear box is grinding, and pops
        > the 110v 2amp breaker (only the mill is powered by breaker)
        > Does not seem to mater which gears I have it in
        > Now it only run takes seconds to pop the breaker (total run time since I
        > got it is less than 2.5 hr)
        >
        > was not low on oil, but I have changed the oil and tried both 90 weight and
        > 68 weight w/ no real impact
        > I also loosened the motor bolts and shifted the motor a little and
        > re-tightened a few times - but no change
        >
        > I now have the motor pulled and seems to run ok in a vice...
        > I have pulled the gear box apart and gears look pretty good... a little
        > wear on edges of some but not much
        >
        > the lower main bearing in the gear box (at bottom of motor connector shaft
        > does has a very little wiggle if moved back and forth from top of the shaft
        > (part # 1-41 the bottom bearing is: 80202)
        >
        > Now that I have gone this far... Please advise me on what I should do... I
        > really want a nice running mill.
        > Also what parts to get, where to get them, likely cost...
        >
        > Thanks so much for any help/advice!
        >
        >
        > Dan
        > 972-365-6161
        >
      • Druid Noibn
        Hi, I do not know the size of the motor nor the age of the circuit breaker but what comes to mind is that the breaker may now be cutting out at a lower
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 18, 2013
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          Hi,

          I do not know the size of the motor nor the age of the circuit breaker but what comes to mind is that the breaker may now be cutting out at a lower current.

          Can you check the current draw on th bench - peak and running?

          By any chance was the motor mounted off-axis i.e., greater loading? The symptoms suggest something isn't aligned well.

          Just a thought or two...

          Take care,
          DBN

          --- On Tue, 6/18/13, dan tharp wrote:

          > From: dan tharp
          > Subject: [mill_drill] zay7032g just go a used one and having problems
          > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Tharp"
          > Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 11:16 AM

          >
          > zay7032g just got a used one and having problems
          >
          > initial run:loud but seems to run
          > fine
          > starting to use it:
          >
          > Thus far I have only milled a little mild steel
          > and also some 1in acrylic plastic, with good results, but
          > now:
          > I only have a few session total for about 2.5hr
          > total time since I got it
          > At times not to loud and pretty smoothAt
          > times very loud and vibrates. seems like gear box is
          > grinding, and pops the 110v 2amp breaker (only the mill is
          > powered by breaker)Does not seem to mater which
          > gears I have it in
          > Now it only run takes seconds to pop the breaker
          >  (total run time since I got it is less than 2.5
          > hr)
          > was not low on oil, but I have changed the oil
          > and tried both 90 weight and 68 weight w/ no real
          > impact
          > I also loosened the motor bolts and shifted the motor a
          > little and re-tightened a few times - but no
          > change
          > I now have the motor pulled and seems to run ok
          > in a vice... 
          > I have pulled the gear box apart and gears look pretty
          > good... a little wear on edges of some but not
          > much
          > the lower main bearing in the gear box (at bottom
          > of motor connector shaft does has a very little wiggle if
          > moved back and forth from top of the shaft (part # 1-41 the
          > bottom bearing is: 80202) 
          >
          > Now that I have gone this far... Please advise me
          > on what I should do... I really want a nice running
          > mill.Also what parts to get, where to get them,
          > likely cost...
          >
          > Thanks so much for any help/advice!
          >
          > Dan
          > 972-365-6161
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • dobravethings
          Thanks, here is a little more info: It is 1.5HP and a 2005 model year. I did loosen the motor bolts and tried shifting around the motor and tightening it back
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 18, 2013
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            Thanks, here is a little more info:

            It is 1.5HP and a 2005 model year. I did loosen the motor bolts and tried shifting around the motor and tightening it back down a couple of times but did not make noticeable difference... I then took the motor off...

            I am not how to check the current draw... with my very cheap volt/ohm/amp meter

            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > I do not know the size of the motor nor the age of the circuit breaker but what comes to mind is that the breaker may now be cutting out at a lower current.
            >
            > Can you check the current draw on th bench - peak and running?
            >
            > By any chance was the motor mounted off-axis i.e., greater loading? The symptoms suggest something isn't aligned well.
            >
            > Just a thought or two...
            >
            > Take care,
            > DBN
            >
            > --- On Tue, 6/18/13, dan tharp wrote:
            >
            > > From: dan tharp
            > > Subject: [mill_drill] zay7032g just go a used one and having problems
            > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Tharp"
            > > Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 11:16 AM
            >
            > >
            > > zay7032g just got a used one and having problems
            > >
            > > initial run:loud but seems to run
            > > fine
            > > starting to use it:
            > >
            > > Thus far I have only milled a little mild steel
            > > and also some 1in acrylic plastic, with good results, but
            > > now:
            > > I only have a few session total for about 2.5hr
            > > total time since I got it
            > > At times not to loud and pretty smoothAt
            > > times very loud and vibrates. seems like gear box is
            > > grinding, and pops the 110v 2amp breaker (only the mill is
            > > powered by breaker)Does not seem to mater which
            > > gears I have it in
            > > Now it only run takes seconds to pop the breaker
            > >  (total run time since I got it is less than 2.5
            > > hr)
            > > was not low on oil, but I have changed the oil
            > > and tried both 90 weight and 68 weight w/ no real
            > > impact
            > > I also loosened the motor bolts and shifted the motor a
            > > little and re-tightened a few times - but no
            > > change
            > > I now have the motor pulled and seems to run ok
            > > in a vice... 
            > > I have pulled the gear box apart and gears look pretty
            > > good... a little wear on edges of some but not
            > > much
            > > the lower main bearing in the gear box (at bottom
            > > of motor connector shaft does has a very little wiggle if
            > > moved back and forth from top of the shaft (part # 1-41 the
            > > bottom bearing is: 80202) 
            > >
            > > Now that I have gone this far... Please advise me
            > > on what I should do... I really want a nice running
            > > mill.Also what parts to get, where to get them,
            > > likely cost...
            > >
            > > Thanks so much for any help/advice!
            > >
            > > Dan
            > > 972-365-6161
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
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            >
          • rogers92026
            There are at least a handful of things that could cause this. To measure the current draw, go to Harbor Fright and buy a clamp-on ammeter. They cost around
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 18, 2013
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              There are at least a handful of things that could cause this.

              To measure the current draw, go to Harbor Fright and buy a clamp-on ammeter. They cost around $12. http://www.harborfreight.com/clamp-on-digital-multimeter-95683.html They have a pair of curved fingers that open up and which you clamp around a single current-carrying wire.

              Keep in mind when you use the ammeter, that you are working with lethal voltages. Don't touch any electrical contacts with your skin.(It is a good time to consider putting one hand in your pocket or wear rubber gloves....)

              To use it, go to the wiring side of the mill and slip a SINGLE wire through the clamp-on part of the ammeter. The wire is likely to be either black, red or white. The green wire is for ground and doesn't normally carry any current. If you have a little slack in some of the wiring you won't have to disconnect anything. Check the current at run. It should be less than or equal to the rating on the motor plate, especially with no load.

              It is possible that the centrifugal start switch is stuck - - that will keep your start capacitor in the circuit and the motor will be fighting itself. I suspect that it would draw excess current and/or pop the breaker. It should be possible to clamp on the ammeter on the lead for the start capacitor. When running, it shouldn't have any current through it. IIRC, there are two caps - - one for run and one for start and the start capacitor has a higher microfarad or MF or uF value.

              It is also possible that you have a bad bearing somewhere. Maybe with the motor off, you could turn things and see if everything is silky-smooth. But doing this isn't always definitive. But if something turns roughly, then you probably have narrowed down the problem.

              You mentioned that you are running this at 110 and have a 2 amp breaker. I suspect that you mean 20 amp breaker. With the motor off the machine, you could measure the current and listen to the motor. With no load, the motor should start up quickly and draw maybe only 5-10 amps and should sweetly "sing". If you do test this off the mill, clamp the motor down with a C clamp or something or the start-up torque may make it do a cartwheel.

              To test the breaker, the easiest way would be to plug in an electric room heater into the receptacle used for the mill. Most room heaters are 1500 watts and draw about 12-15 amps. If the room heater pops, then the breaker is bad. If it doesn't pop, consider adding some more load to roughly equal about 20 amps, like a high-intensity light, a coffee maker, etc.

              Bruce
              Electronics guy for about 50 years.

              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "dobravethings" <dbthar@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks, here is a little more info:
              >
              > It is 1.5HP and a 2005 model year. I did loosen the motor bolts and tried shifting around the motor and tightening it back down a couple of times but did not make noticeable difference... I then took the motor off...
              >
              > I am not how to check the current draw... with my very cheap volt/ohm/amp meter
              >
              > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > I do not know the size of the motor nor the age of the circuit breaker but what comes to mind is that the breaker may now be cutting out at a lower current.
              > >
              > > Can you check the current draw on th bench - peak and running?
              > >
              > > By any chance was the motor mounted off-axis i.e., greater loading? The symptoms suggest something isn't aligned well.
              > >
              > > Just a thought or two...
              > >
              > > Take care,
              > > DBN
              > >
              > > --- On Tue, 6/18/13, dan tharp wrote:
              > >
              > > > From: dan tharp
              > > > Subject: [mill_drill] zay7032g just go a used one and having problems
              > > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Tharp"
              > > > Date: Tuesday, June 18, 2013, 11:16 AM
              > >
              > > >
              > > > zay7032g just got a used one and having problems
              > > >
              > > > initial run:loud but seems to run
              > > > fine
              > > > starting to use it:
              > > >
              > > > Thus far I have only milled a little mild steel
              > > > and also some 1in acrylic plastic, with good results, but
              > > > now:
              > > > I only have a few session total for about 2.5hr
              > > > total time since I got it
              > > > At times not to loud and pretty smoothAt
              > > > times very loud and vibrates. seems like gear box is
              > > > grinding, and pops the 110v 2amp breaker (only the mill is
              > > > powered by breaker)Does not seem to mater which
              > > > gears I have it in
              > > > Now it only run takes seconds to pop the breaker
              > > >  (total run time since I got it is less than 2.5
              > > > hr)
              > > > was not low on oil, but I have changed the oil
              > > > and tried both 90 weight and 68 weight w/ no real
              > > > impact
              > > > I also loosened the motor bolts and shifted the motor a
              > > > little and re-tightened a few times - but no
              > > > change
              > > > I now have the motor pulled and seems to run ok
              > > > in a vice... 
              > > > I have pulled the gear box apart and gears look pretty
              > > > good... a little wear on edges of some but not
              > > > much
              > > > the lower main bearing in the gear box (at bottom
              > > > of motor connector shaft does has a very little wiggle if
              > > > moved back and forth from top of the shaft (part # 1-41 the
              > > > bottom bearing is: 80202) 
              > > >
              > > > Now that I have gone this far... Please advise me
              > > > on what I should do... I really want a nice running
              > > > mill.Also what parts to get, where to get them,
              > > > likely cost...
              > > >
              > > > Thanks so much for any help/advice!
              > > >
              > > > Dan
              > > > 972-365-6161
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
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            • dan tharp
              ok, let me see if I can get it right this time I have checked the two cap with an ohm meter they both started out with a beep or shorted out and then went back
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 18, 2013
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                ok, let me see if I can get it right this time

                I have checked the two cap with an ohm meter they both started out with a beep or shorted out and then went back to open circuit... i think this means they are good.  I did not disconnect the wires from for testing...

                when running motor in a big vice with amp meter around the white wire it read 1.7 amps in forward and 6.7 amps in reverse... tried the several times same readings (no load on motor), smooth to rotate with fingers and did not feel loose.  Motor does sound a little noisy in both directions, not too bad but more that i expected with on load.

                before i took it all apart i tried two different 20 amp plugins and one 15 amp all three different circuits in the breaker box... all about the same (maybe 15 amp turned off quicker)  

                I was going to try a new 30 amp breaker 110v before i took it apart but was afraid of the damage it might do to the mill...

                i now have the all the gears out of the gear box and not sure if i can feel any play in any of the bearings

                currently not sure what to do...  but i do know i really want this mill running so i can work on my projects...

                also if i got all new bearings does anyone know where i should get them and rough idea on cost...

                thanks for all the suggestions i have received and any more that might come...

                thanks 

                Dan 
                972-365-6161
              • Andy M
                GDay dan, 6.7amps in reverse sounds a tad high to me. I m not sure exactly what it means but it doesn t sound right at all. It may be a bad run cap. Try
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 18, 2013
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                  GDay dan,

                  6.7amps in reverse sounds a tad high to me. I'm not sure exactly what it
                  means but it doesn't sound right at all. It may be a bad run cap. Try
                  swapping the leads on the cap and do the test again. If the high current
                  draw is in the fwd direction now then the cap is bad.

                  Also try swapping the start cap leads and test again. If the motor
                  exhibits the same current draws in fwd/rev then it may point to a bad
                  winding in the motor or a bad start cap.

                  If the motor is a bit noisy on the bench then there's a good chance the
                  bearings are shot. I would replace them and while you are at it make
                  sure that the centrifugal switch is operating correctly and that it's
                  contacts are clean and shiny.

                  Burnt contacts could indicate a bad start cap.

                  It could be the switch causing the noisy motor and not the bearings though.

                  vxb.com is a pretty good place to shop for bearings and their prices are
                  very reasonable. There are other places for bearings out there, Google
                  them ;)

                  I wouldn't worry about the gearbox bearings unless they feel bad. I
                  would only replace them if I had to.

                  --
                  Regards
                  Andy M



                  dan tharp wrote:
                  > ok, let me see if I can get it right this time
                  >
                  > I have checked the two cap with an ohm meter they both started out with
                  > a beep or shorted out and then went back to open circuit... i think this
                  > means they are good. I did not disconnect the wires from for testing...
                  >
                  > when running motor in a big vice with amp meter around the white wire it
                  > read 1.7 amps in forward and 6.7 amps in reverse... tried the several
                  > times same readings (no load on motor), smooth to rotate with fingers
                  > and did not feel loose. Motor does sound a little noisy in both
                  > directions, not too bad but more that i expected with on load.
                  >
                  > before i took it all apart i tried two different 20 amp plugins and one
                  > 15 amp all three different circuits in the breaker box... all about the
                  > same (maybe 15 amp turned off quicker)
                  >
                  > I was going to try a new 30 amp breaker 110v before i took it apart but
                  > was afraid of the damage it might do to the mill...
                  >
                  > i now have the all the gears out of the gear box and not sure if i can
                  > feel any play in any of the bearings
                  >
                  > currently not sure what to do... but i do know i really want this mill
                  > running so i can work on my projects...
                  >
                  > also if i got all new bearings does anyone know where i should get them
                  > and rough idea on cost...
                  >
                  > thanks for all the suggestions i have received and any more that might
                  > come...
                  >
                  > thanks
                  >
                  > Dan
                  > 972-365-6161
                  > dan.tharp1@... <mailto:dan.tharp1@...>
                  >
                  >
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