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Re: [mill_drill] Spectacular motor failure

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  • Druid Noibn
    Hi Craig, Sorry to hear about the exploding cap. Leeson does make a metric motor - check both the mounting and shaft diameter - sometimes they do not match-up.
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 15, 2013
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      Hi Craig,

      Sorry to hear about the exploding cap.

      Leeson does make a metric motor - check both the mounting and shaft diameter - sometimes they do not match-up.

      Yes, I did replace my 1ph system with a US 3ph 56C mount motor - heads up - I made an adapter flange, spacers and a adapter/extension to connect the motor shaft to the system. What the heck, I have a Grizzly mill/drill and a lathe.... It works quite well, but most won't wish to go through that stuff.

      OK and alternate - call Grizzly and maybe other folks selling the same series mill/drill and see what they have as a replacement 3ph motor. For instance, Grizzly has gearhead systems with 3ph motors - check the manuals and/or call their tech support - see if they can give you advice.

      Also check eBay - I did find metric motors - sometimes folks want a bit of money and I'm...frugal. The system here uses eBay acquired materials and my labor...I'm still frugal.

      Let all know what you find out.

      Be well,
      DBN

      --- On Fri, 6/14/13, svsequoia_pdx wrote:

      > From: svsequoia_pdx
      > Subject: [mill_drill] Spectacular motor failure
      > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, June 14, 2013, 1:24 PM
      >

      > There I was, drilling a .109 hole in delrin, and
      > BOOM! the magic smoke escaped from the junction box on my
      > 2HP RF-45 clone mill-drill. The  150 uF start capacitor
      > exploded, blowing the cover off the junction box.  The
      > tattered remains hung there, burning;  it took me a few
      > moments to get my act together, pull the plug and blow out
      > the flames.  Then I had to deal with the smoke
      > detector(s), fire alarm company, etc.  Picture here :
      >
      > Since the motor had been running for 30 seconds (but making
      > a slightly different noise) the start capacitor should not
      > have been carrying current.  A quick check with a
      > replacement cap and a clamp-on ammeter proved that the
      > centrifugal switch was not releasing at speed.
      >
      > The motor is a Chinese YL90L-4, single phase 230V/60Hz, 1740
      > rpm, 2 HP flange mount. Does anyone know of a US source for
      > a replacement?  The only one I can find is the 3 phase
      > Leeson  192206.00 if I upgrade to VFO control.  (I
      > did this upgrade on my 10"
      > Grizzly lath e and it works well.  It's
      > just the $500 or so needed to invest!)  Has anyone done
      > the 3 ph upgrade?  Dop you know if the Leeson is a
      > drop-in replacement?
      >
      > Craig
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Frank Spillman
      I am no kind of motor expert, but I just googled the specs you listed and came up with a few different options. Do you know if it is a C face motor? Is that
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 15, 2013
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        I am no kind of motor expert, but I just googled the specs you listed and came up with a few different options. Do you know if it is a C face motor? Is that the same as flange mounted?

        Which company imported your RF-45? It seems to me that the motor must be one of the options they allow the importer/brander to spec out, because just about every different company I have looked at has a slightly different motor on their version. Mine is from Bolton Hardware (who have always given me great customer service, by the way). When I get back to mine I will take a look at the motor and see if it sheds any light for me.

        Good luck!

        Frank Spillman
      • svsequoia_pdx
        Frank: The motor is flange mounted. In metric sizing, it is a 90 series motor with a B5 flange (although it also has the B3 feet). Metric motors have
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 16, 2013
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          Frank:

          The motor is flange mounted. In metric sizing, it is a 90 series motor
          with a B5 flange (although it also has the B3 feet). Metric motors have
          different size shafts and footprints than US motor sizes.

          The mill is branded Sabre ZX45L and was imported by AR Tools in Spokane,
          WA. It being the weekend, I am waiting to hear back from them on their
          response.

          If I have to fork out for a replacement, I will probably go with the
          Leeson 3 ph and add a VFD. I suspect that will be more reliable in the
          long term.

          Craig
          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Frank Spillman wrote:
          >
          > I am no kind of motor expert, but I just googled the specs you listed
          and came up with a few different options. Do you know if it is a C face
          motor? Is that the same as flange mounted?
          >
          > Which company imported your RF-45? It seems to me that the motor must
          be one of the options they allow the importer/brander to spec out,
          because just about every different company I have looked at has a
          slightly different motor on their version. Mine is from Bolton Hardware
          (who have always given me great customer service, by the way). When I
          get back to mine I will take a look at the motor and see if it sheds any
          light for me.
          >
          > Good luck!
          >
          > Frank Spillman
          >
        • Glenn
          Craig - I have an Enco version of your mill and replaced the stock motor with a 3 phase Leeson that I found cheap. Must have been an insurance deal as the box
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 17, 2013
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            Craig -

            I have an Enco version of your mill and replaced the stock motor with a 3 phase Leeson that I found cheap. Must have been an insurance deal as the box had water damage, but the motor was untouched. Had to make an adapter plate and turn down the shaft to get it to fit. Added a VFD and am very pleased with the combo.

            Anyway, I have the original motor taking up space in my very overcrowded garage and would be happy send it your way for the cost of shipping. Hopefully your dealer will honor the warranty and this won't be necessary. Let us know what happens.

            Glenn
          • Jim Hendricks
            What a fantastic gesture!!! Well done that man!! Jim _____ From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Sent: 17
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 17, 2013
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              What a fantastic gesture!!!
               
              Well done that man!!
               
              Jim


              From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
              Sent: 17 June 2013 10:09
              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Spectacular motor failure

               

              Craig -

              I have an Enco version of your mill and replaced the stock motor with a 3 phase Leeson that I found cheap. Must have been an insurance deal as the box had water damage, but the motor was untouched. Had to make an adapter plate and turn down the shaft to get it to fit. Added a VFD and am very pleased with the combo.

              Anyway, I have the original motor taking up space in my very overcrowded garage and would be happy send it your way for the cost of shipping. Hopefully your dealer will honor the warranty and this won't be necessary. Let us know what happens.

              Glenn

            • mn_metalbutcher
              I converted by Enco version of that mill to 3-phase/VFD. Here are some links to the threads on the conversion.
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 17, 2013
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                I converted by Enco version of that mill to 3-phase/VFD. Here are some links to the threads on the conversion.

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dovetail_column_mill_group/message/87
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dovetail_column_mill_group/message/169
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dovetail_column_mill_group/message/986
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dovetail_column_mill_group/message/1491

                The bottom line is that you can find a metric motor that drops in other than the shaft size. I had to have the shaft on the Leeson motor I bought turned down and shortened in order to make it a drop in replacement. It cost me about $40 to get it done by an authorized Leeson motor repair shop, thus not voiding the warranty. YMMV

                Ed

                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "svsequoia_pdx" <k7cej@...> wrote:
                >
                > There I was, drilling a .109 hole in delrin, and BOOM! the magic smoke
                > escaped from the junction box on my 2HP RF-45 clone mill-drill. The 150
                > uF start capacitor exploded, blowing the cover off the junction box.
                > The tattered remains hung there, burning; it took me a few moments to
                > get my act together, pull the plug and blow out the flames. Then I had
                > to deal with the smoke detector(s), fire alarm company, etc. Picture
                > here
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/photos/album/1841861814/pic/76\
                > 859749/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> :
                >
                > Since the motor had been running for 30 seconds (but making a slightly
                > different noise) the start capacitor should not have been carrying
                > current. A quick check with a replacement cap and a clamp-on ammeter
                > proved that the centrifugal switch was not releasing at speed.
                >
                > The motor is a Chinese YL90L-4, single phase 230V/60Hz, 1740 rpm, 2 HP
                > flange mount. Does anyone know of a US source for a replacement? The
                > only one I can find is the 3 phase Leeson 192206.00 if I upgrade to VFO
                > control. (I did this upgrade on my 10" Grizzly lath
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/10x22grizzlyandthelike/photos/album/51088\
                > 4303/pic/list> e and it works well. It's just the $500 or so needed to
                > invest!) Has anyone done the 3 ph upgrade? Dop you know if the Leeson
                > is a drop-in replacement?
                >
                > Craig
                >
              • svsequoia_pdx
                Glenn: Thanks for the very kind offer. Fortunately, the vendor, AR Tools of Spokane, WA, has agreed to buy a new Leeson 3 Phase as a replacement. (I will add
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 19, 2013
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                  Glenn:

                  Thanks for the very kind offer.  Fortunately, the vendor, AR Tools of Spokane, WA, has agreed to buy a new Leeson 3 Phase as a replacement. (I will add the VFD.)

                  I am interested in the adaption process you describe.  What size were the old and new motors you used?  My blown-up motor is a 2 HP 90 series metric motor (YL90L-4 if I remember correctly) flange mount.  The Leeson I am considering is also a 2 HP, 90 series metric motor with a B5 flange mount  (and also B3 feet).  I haven't pulled the old motor yet but I am expecting the shafts to be the same.  Am I going to be disappointed?

                  Craig

                   

                   

                  On 2013-06-17 02:09, Glenn wrote:

                   

                  Craig -

                  I have an Enco version of your mill and replaced the stock motor with a 3 phase Leeson that I found cheap. Must have been an insurance deal as the box had water damage, but the motor was untouched. Had to make an adapter plate and turn down the shaft to get it to fit. Added a VFD and am very pleased with the combo.

                  Anyway, I have the original motor taking up space in my very overcrowded garage and would be happy send it your way for the cost of shipping. Hopefully your dealer will honor the warranty and this won't be necessary. Let us know what happens.

                  Glenn

                   

                   
                • Druid Noibn
                  Hi, Check the shaft size it might not be standard for the sized motor. Be well, DBN
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 19, 2013
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                    Hi,

                    Check the shaft size it might not be standard for the sized motor.

                    Be well,
                    DBN

                    --- On Wed, 6/19/13, k7cej@... wrote:

                    > From: k7cej@...
                    > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Spectacular motor failure
                    > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 1:40 PM
                    >
                    >
                    > Glenn:
                    > Thanks for the very kind offer.  Fortunately, the
                    > vendor, AR Tools of Spokane, WA, has agreed to buy a new
                    > Leeson 3 Phase as a replacement. (I will add the VFD.)
                    > I am interested in the adaption process you
                    > describe.  What size were the old and new motors you
                    > used?  My blown-up motor is a 2 HP 90 series metric
                    > motor (YL90L-4 if I remember correctly) flange mount. 
                    > The Leeson I am considering is also a 2 HP, 90 series metric
                    > motor with a B5 flange mount  (and also B3 feet). 
                    > I haven't pulled the old motor yet but I am expecting
                    > the shafts to be the same.  Am I going to be
                    > disappointed?
                    > Craig
                    >  
                    >  
                    > On 2013-06-17 02:09, Glenn wrote:
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Craig -
                    >
                    > I have an Enco version of your mill
                    > and replaced the stock motor with a 3 phase Leeson that I
                    > found cheap. Must have been an insurance deal as the box had
                    > water damage, but the motor was untouched. Had to make an
                    > adapter plate and turn down the shaft to get it to fit.
                    > Added a VFD and am very pleased with the combo.
                    >
                    >
                    > Anyway, I have the original motor taking up space in my very
                    > overcrowded garage and would be happy send it your way for
                    > the cost of shipping. Hopefully your dealer will honor the
                    > warranty and this won't be necessary. Let us know what
                    > happens.
                    >
                    > Glenn
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                  • leasingham_connelly
                    If you can t source a replacement start switch and you can t use the motor without the start cap then consider a manual switch for the start cap. Use a push
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 19, 2013
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                      If you can't source a replacement start switch and you can't use the motor without the start cap then consider a manual switch for the start cap. Use a push on/spring off switch, hold it down when starting the motor and release after a few seconds when the motor is at a suitable speed. Without a start cap there is there any risk of the motor running in reverse?

                      Martin

                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Frank Spillman <spilperson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I am no kind of motor expert, but I just googled the specs you listed and came up with a few different options. Do you know if it is a C face motor? Is that the same as flange mounted?
                      >
                      > Which company imported your RF-45? It seems to me that the motor must be one of the options they allow the importer/brander to spec out, because just about every different company I have looked at has a slightly different motor on their version. Mine is from Bolton Hardware (who have always given me great customer service, by the way). When I get back to mine I will take a look at the motor and see if it sheds any light for me.
                      >
                      > Good luck!
                      >
                      > Frank Spillman
                      >
                    • Glenn
                      Craig - AR Tools is coming through for you. A 3 phase motor and the VFD make a really nice combo. I posted a few photos of my mill (album is Glenn s Enco
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 19, 2013
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                        Craig -

                        AR Tools is coming through for you. A 3 phase motor and the VFD make a really nice combo.

                        I posted a few photos of my mill (album is Glenn's Enco ZX-7045) and you can see the mount and info plate for the stock motor. It's a YL-90L-4 with the shaft turned down to 19mm (.748 by 40mm length with a 6mm key. The 4 mounting bolts are on a 164.5 (??) circle and the locating flange is 130mm diameter by 3mm high.

                        The Leeson motor I used is a 121063.00. Here's a link:

                        http://www.leeson.com/leeson/searchproduct.do;jsessionid=67438E5CF2E41A5EE7C8A202FDC1B7C6?invoke=viewProductDetails&motorNo=121063.00&productType=

                        The adapter is 5/8 inch 6061 and the only trick is that the bolts that mount it to the mill are held captive by the motor. It takes a while to mount the motor and adapter a sixth of a turn at a time.

                        If you get a metric class motor the adapter shouldn't be necessary, but you might have to turn down the shaft. I did that myself and it wasn't a big deal. Just disassemble the motor and mount the armature between centers and turn away. Cutting the keyway could be a problem if you don't have access to another mill. I help out in the machining class at the local community college, so I took it to class.

                        The links that Ed posted will give you a lot of information. I read them many times before I made the swap.

                        If you have any questions, just give a holler.

                        Glenn

                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, k7cej@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Glenn:
                        >
                        > Thanks for the very kind offer. Fortunately, the vendor, AR Tools of
                        > Spokane, WA, has agreed to buy a new Leeson 3 Phase as a replacement. (I
                        > will add the VFD.)
                        >
                        > I am interested in the adaption process you describe. What size were the
                        > old and new motors you used? My blown-up motor is a 2 HP 90 series
                        > metric motor (YL90L-4 if I remember correctly) flange mount. The Leeson
                        > I am considering is also a 2 HP, 90 series metric motor with a B5 flange
                        > mount (and also B3 feet). I haven't pulled the old motor yet but I am
                        > expecting the shafts to be the same. Am I going to be disappointed?
                        >
                        > Craig
                        >
                      • svsequoia_pdx
                        Druid: I am out of town right now but will pull the toasted motor as soon as I get back into the shop, and check the flange and shaft dimensions. Some of the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 20, 2013
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                          Druid:

                          I am out of town right now but will pull the toasted motor as soon as I get back into the shop, and check the flange and shaft dimensions.  Some of the posts on this subject from 2009 seem to be referring to belt drive units that have a smaller than normal (24mm) shaft.  My mill has a 6 speed geared head.  The truth is out their...and I will find it as soon as I can.

                          Craig

                          On 2013-06-19 14:36, Druid Noibn wrote:

                           

                          Hi,

                          Check the shaft size it might not be standard for the sized motor.

                          Be well,
                          DBN

                          --- On Wed, 6/19/13, k7cej@... wrote:

                          > From: k7cej@...
                          > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Spectacular motor failure
                          > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 1:40 PM
                          >
                          >
                          > Glenn:
                          > Thanks for the very kind offer.  Fortunately, the
                          > vendor, AR Tools of Spokane, WA, has agreed to buy a new
                          > Leeson 3 Phase as a replacement. (I will add the VFD.)
                          > I am interested in the adaption process you
                          > describe.  What size were the old and new motors you
                          > used?  My blown-up motor is a 2 HP 90 series metric
                          > motor (YL90L-4 if I remember correctly) flange mount. 
                          > The Leeson I am considering is also a 2 HP, 90 series metric
                          > motor with a B5 flange mount  (and also B3 feet). 
                          > I haven't pulled the old motor yet but I am expecting
                          > the shafts to be the same.  Am I going to be
                          > disappointed?
                          > Craig
                          >  
                          >  
                          > On 2013-06-17 02:09, Glenn wrote:
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Craig -
                          >
                          > I have an Enco version of your mill
                          > and replaced the stock motor with a 3 phase Leeson that I
                          > found cheap. Must have been an insurance deal as the box had
                          > water damage, but the motor was untouched. Had to make an
                          > adapter plate and turn down the shaft to get it to fit.
                          > Added a VFD and am very pleased with the combo.
                          >
                          >
                          > Anyway, I have the original motor taking up space in my very
                          > overcrowded garage and would be happy send it your way for
                          > the cost of shipping. Hopefully your dealer will honor the
                          > warranty and this won't be necessary. Let us know what
                          > happens.
                          >
                          > Glenn
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >  
                          >
                          >

                           

                           
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