Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Electrical info for a Zay7045fg mill/drill

Expand Messages
  • julianworks2
    So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water,
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 6, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain for who know....how long?

      Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot, but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.

      BUT!

      I wired it up, for 220V, to give it a test run before I spent too much time on cleaning it up and, POOF. A huge cloud of smoke comes out of the electrical control box on the back. Fried a bunch of wiring. I remember a grinding type sound when it fired up. Mind you this was all over the course of about 5 seconds, and I can not recall if I noticed the spindle spinning or not.

      So I;m wondering if the motor could be damaged such that it overloaded the wiring? I didn;t have it in gear properly, and some how when the motor tried to turn it it was overloaded? Or I shouldn;t have wired it up for 220V? I assumed the plug on it was a 220V plug and the diagrams and existing wiring on the motor pointed to 220V being it's previous setup.

      I'm at a loss....The next thing I am going to try is to hot wire the motor off of the machine and see what happens.

      Let me post a few pictures.

      Please any advice would be great, and I hope I have found the right place for this subject.

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4qgcijyjlmk2dh/IMG_20130604_161710.jpg

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/iffw00c44itmqjb/IMG_20130605_173621.jpg

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t26akrqhavl0sq/IMG_20130605_173627.jpg

      It fried almost all of what I can see as the line wires going from each of those switches/relays (not sure what they are)
    • Jerome Kimberlin
      ... That is a complicated wiring system in the picture. I think I would just ;throw all that away and put on a 3-phase with a VFD. I have three machines with
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 6, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        On 6/6/2013 5:12 PM, julianworks2 wrote:
        > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain for who know....how long?
        >
        > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot, but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.
        >
        > BUT!

        That is a complicated wiring system in the picture. I think I would
        just ;throw all that away and put on a 3-phase with a VFD. I have three
        machines with VFDs in my home shop and wouldn't even think of wasting
        time on electricals (especially since the magic smoke has been let
        out). See what you can find at Dealers Electric or Automation Direct or
        just buy a new motor at the Surplus Center.. Well, as long as the rest
        of the machine suits your purpose and expectations.

        JerryK
      • Corey Renner
        Damn nice machine for $100! Remove the rust from the table and other machined surfaces with a brass brush and a little oil to keep the dust down, it doesn t
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 6, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Damn nice machine for $100!

          Remove the rust from the table and other machined surfaces with a brass brush and a little oil to keep the dust down, it doesn't take long.  Don't use sandpaper or scrotchbrite or any of the other abrasives that people like to use on precision surfaces (to destroy them).  If the motor is wrecked, then go with 3phase and a VFD like Jerry said.  If you know someone who's an electrician or EE, it would be worth buying them a case of beer to take a look at it for you.

          cheers,
          c


          On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Jerome Kimberlin <kimberln@...> wrote:
           

          On 6/6/2013 5:12 PM, julianworks2 wrote:
          > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain for who know....how long?
          >
          > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot, but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.
          >
          > BUT!

          That is a complicated wiring system in the picture. I think I would
          just ;throw all that away and put on a 3-phase with a VFD. I have three
          machines with VFDs in my home shop and wouldn't even think of wasting
          time on electricals (especially since the magic smoke has been let
          out). See what you can find at Dealers Electric or Automation Direct or
          just buy a new motor at the Surplus Center.. Well, as long as the rest
          of the machine suits your purpose and expectations.

          JerryK




          --
        • Dallas Richardson
          Have him look if over befor he see s the case of beer... Grin If it s not attached to your body when you roll out of the car, you aren t going to have it when
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 6, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Have him look if over befor he see's the case of beer... Grin
             
            "If it's not attached to your body when you roll out of the car,
            you aren't going to have it when you need it"
             
            Dallas
             


            Remove the rust from the table and other machined surfaces with a brass brush and a little oil to keep the dust down, it doesn't take long.  Don't use sandpaper or scrotchbrite or any of the other abrasives that people like to use on precision surfaces (to destroy them).  If the motor is wrecked, then go with 3phase and a VFD like Jerry said.  If you know someone who's an electrician or EE, it would be worth buying them a case of beer to take a look at it for you.

          • Andy M
            GDay julianworks2, I have the same machine but unfortunately my control panel is quite different from yours (Australian). My mill is also fitted with an
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 7, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              GDay julianworks2,

              I have the same machine but unfortunately my control panel is quite
              different from yours (Australian). My mill is also fitted with an
              automatic tapping feature which uses the depth stop to automatically
              switch from forward to reverse.

              You obviously had a direct short somewhere in order to cause the wiring
              damage shown. Luckily all your wiring is numbered. If you are able to
              find an owners manual for your mill it should list the wiring
              connections and the numbered lines.

              Failing that, write down all the wiring numbers and where each wire
              connects. Then it's a simple matter of replacing each of the burnt out
              wires. Don't forget to number the replacement wires to match those that
              are replaced. Replace each wire, one at a time to avoid any confusion
              with multiple wires.

              Using a trusty VOHM you can then check the circuit for integrity and
              hopefully gain an understanding of how the circuit works. The large
              white blocks are contactors which behave in a similar manner to a relay.

              Take lots of photos from all angles before you start. As they say, a
              picture is worth a thousand words and even if you get something wrong,
              you'll be able to show someone the pictures and he/she may point out
              your mistake or you may be able to find it yourself ;)

              I like to use a labeller with black on white tape to print the line
              numbers on, then it's just a matter of wrapping the tape around the wire
              so that the tape sticks to the wire and itself and forms a small flag.
              Don't forget to label both ends of the wire ;)

              Good luck with it and if you get stuck at any point just holler.

              Also, don't forget to test the contactors, preferably with them removed
              from the machine. It could be that a contactor didn't work when it
              should have and caused a short. More likely, the motor or it's
              connections were shorted due to water and corrosion damage.

              --
              Regards
              Andy M



              julianworks2 wrote:
              > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane
              > sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to
              > salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in
              > the rain for who know....how long?
              >
              > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot,
              > but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor
              > turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which
              > amazes me.
              >
              > BUT!
              >
              > I wired it up, for 220V, to give it a test run before I spent too much
              > time on cleaning it up and, POOF. A huge cloud of smoke comes out of the
              > electrical control box on the back. Fried a bunch of wiring. I remember
              > a grinding type sound when it fired up. Mind you this was all over the
              > course of about 5 seconds, and I can not recall if I noticed the spindle
              > spinning or not.
              >
              > So I;m wondering if the motor could be damaged such that it overloaded
              > the wiring? I didn;t have it in gear properly, and some how when the
              > motor tried to turn it it was overloaded? Or I shouldn;t have wired it
              > up for 220V? I assumed the plug on it was a 220V plug and the diagrams
              > and existing wiring on the motor pointed to 220V being it's previous setup.
              >
              > I'm at a loss....The next thing I am going to try is to hot wire the
              > motor off of the machine and see what happens.
              >
              > Let me post a few pictures.
              >
              > Please any advice would be great, and I hope I have found the right
              > place for this subject.
              >
              > https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4qgcijyjlmk2dh/IMG_20130604_161710.jpg
              >
              > https://www.dropbox.com/s/iffw00c44itmqjb/IMG_20130605_173621.jpg
              >
              > https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t26akrqhavl0sq/IMG_20130605_173627.jpg
              >
              > It fried almost all of what I can see as the line wires going from each
              > of those switches/relays (not sure what they are)
            • julianworks2
              Andy, short note as I m about to head out for work: I have the auto tapping feature on this machine too. Not sure if it is the same as what you have still,
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 7, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Andy, short note as I'm about to head out for work: I have the auto tapping feature on this machine too. Not sure if it is the same as what you have still, but inside the head there are two limit switches, for lower limit and upper limit, that I assume will switch the direction of the spindle when tapping.

                thanks for all the info.

                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                >
                > GDay julianworks2,
                >
                > I have the same machine but unfortunately my control panel is quite
                > different from yours (Australian). My mill is also fitted with an
                > automatic tapping feature which uses the depth stop to automatically
                > switch from forward to reverse.
                >
                > You obviously had a direct short somewhere in order to cause the wiring
                > damage shown. Luckily all your wiring is numbered. If you are able to
                > find an owners manual for your mill it should list the wiring
                > connections and the numbered lines.
                >
                > Failing that, write down all the wiring numbers and where each wire
                > connects. Then it's a simple matter of replacing each of the burnt out
                > wires. Don't forget to number the replacement wires to match those that
                > are replaced. Replace each wire, one at a time to avoid any confusion
                > with multiple wires.
                >
                > Using a trusty VOHM you can then check the circuit for integrity and
                > hopefully gain an understanding of how the circuit works. The large
                > white blocks are contactors which behave in a similar manner to a relay.
                >
                > Take lots of photos from all angles before you start. As they say, a
                > picture is worth a thousand words and even if you get something wrong,
                > you'll be able to show someone the pictures and he/she may point out
                > your mistake or you may be able to find it yourself ;)
                >
                > I like to use a labeller with black on white tape to print the line
                > numbers on, then it's just a matter of wrapping the tape around the wire
                > so that the tape sticks to the wire and itself and forms a small flag.
                > Don't forget to label both ends of the wire ;)
                >
                > Good luck with it and if you get stuck at any point just holler.
                >
                > Also, don't forget to test the contactors, preferably with them removed
                > from the machine. It could be that a contactor didn't work when it
                > should have and caused a short. More likely, the motor or it's
                > connections were shorted due to water and corrosion damage.
                >
                > --
                > Regards
                > Andy M
                >
                >
                >
                > julianworks2 wrote:
                > > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane
                > > sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to
                > > salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in
                > > the rain for who know....how long?
                > >
                > > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot,
                > > but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor
                > > turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which
                > > amazes me.
                > >
                > > BUT!
                > >
                > > I wired it up, for 220V, to give it a test run before I spent too much
                > > time on cleaning it up and, POOF. A huge cloud of smoke comes out of the
                > > electrical control box on the back. Fried a bunch of wiring. I remember
                > > a grinding type sound when it fired up. Mind you this was all over the
                > > course of about 5 seconds, and I can not recall if I noticed the spindle
                > > spinning or not.
                > >
                > > So I;m wondering if the motor could be damaged such that it overloaded
                > > the wiring? I didn;t have it in gear properly, and some how when the
                > > motor tried to turn it it was overloaded? Or I shouldn;t have wired it
                > > up for 220V? I assumed the plug on it was a 220V plug and the diagrams
                > > and existing wiring on the motor pointed to 220V being it's previous setup.
                > >
                > > I'm at a loss....The next thing I am going to try is to hot wire the
                > > motor off of the machine and see what happens.
                > >
                > > Let me post a few pictures.
                > >
                > > Please any advice would be great, and I hope I have found the right
                > > place for this subject.
                > >
                > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4qgcijyjlmk2dh/IMG_20130604_161710.jpg
                > >
                > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/iffw00c44itmqjb/IMG_20130605_173621.jpg
                > >
                > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t26akrqhavl0sq/IMG_20130605_173627.jpg
                > >
                > > It fried almost all of what I can see as the line wires going from each
                > > of those switches/relays (not sure what they are)
                >
              • julianworks2
                Jerry, I agree with you, and would like to do that....but for now, I m kinda liking the can we get this $100 mill running with little or no money invested?
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 7, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jerry, I agree with you, and would like to do that....but for now, I'm kinda liking the "can we get this $100 mill running with little or no money invested?" idea. If that makes sense?

                  My mouth does water at the idea of a VFD though, and I would like to get into that stuff.

                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Jerome Kimberlin <kimberln@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 6/6/2013 5:12 PM, julianworks2 wrote:
                  > > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain for who know....how long?
                  > >
                  > > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot, but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.
                  > >
                  > > BUT!
                  >
                  > That is a complicated wiring system in the picture. I think I would
                  > just ;throw all that away and put on a 3-phase with a VFD. I have three
                  > machines with VFDs in my home shop and wouldn't even think of wasting
                  > time on electricals (especially since the magic smoke has been let
                  > out). See what you can find at Dealers Electric or Automation Direct or
                  > just buy a new motor at the Surplus Center.. Well, as long as the rest
                  > of the machine suits your purpose and expectations.
                  >
                  > JerryK
                  >
                • julianworks2
                  Thank you for the suggestions on cleaning up the table. Would you suggest anything like electrolysis? That s kind of the way I was leaning as it will get
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 7, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you for the suggestions on cleaning up the table. Would you suggest anything like electrolysis? That's kind of the way I was leaning as it will get into all the little places such as the Tee slots, etc, but wasn't sure if it would do any damage. That's going to be my next item to tackle here with you guys after I get it running at least. No use in cleaning the table up if i can;t get power to the spindle!

                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Damn nice machine for $100!
                    >
                    > Remove the rust from the table and other machined surfaces with a brass
                    > brush and a little oil to keep the dust down, it doesn't take long. Don't
                    > use sandpaper or scrotchbrite or any of the other abrasives that people
                    > like to use on precision surfaces (to destroy them). If the motor is
                    > wrecked, then go with 3phase and a VFD like Jerry said. If you know
                    > someone who's an electrician or EE, it would be worth buying them a case of
                    > beer to take a look at it for you.
                    >
                    > cheers,
                    > c
                    >
                    >
                    > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Jerome Kimberlin <kimberln@...>wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On 6/6/2013 5:12 PM, julianworks2 wrote:
                    > > > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane
                    > > sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt
                    > > water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain
                    > > for who know....how long?
                    > > >
                    > > > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot,
                    > > but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns
                    > > freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.
                    > > >
                    > > > BUT!
                    > >
                    > > That is a complicated wiring system in the picture. I think I would
                    > > just ;throw all that away and put on a 3-phase with a VFD. I have three
                    > > machines with VFDs in my home shop and wouldn't even think of wasting
                    > > time on electricals (especially since the magic smoke has been let
                    > > out). See what you can find at Dealers Electric or Automation Direct or
                    > > just buy a new motor at the Surplus Center.. Well, as long as the rest
                    > > of the machine suits your purpose and expectations.
                    > >
                    > > JerryK
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > http://coreyrenner.tumblr.com/
                    >
                  • Andy M
                    GDay julianworks2, I believe I only have a single limit switch on my mill for tapping but I have not had a good look at the headstock or the innards of the
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 7, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      GDay julianworks2,

                      I believe I only have a single limit switch on my mill for tapping but I
                      have not had a good look at the headstock or the innards of the control
                      panel yet. I'm saving that until I have the headstock lift motor etc. in
                      position before I start messing with wiring and adding switches etc.

                      I uploaded a picture of my control panel, you'll find it here, I hope :)
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/photos/album/499820181/pic/884963515/view

                      As you can see, I have a lot fewer switches than you do and I'd wager
                      that I don't have as many contactors either.

                      While you are replacing the wires it would definitely be a good idea to
                      draw a circuit diagram showing all the connections, wire numbers etc.

                      If you don't have a good program for doing that then there is always MS
                      Paint. It doesn't have to be the Mona Lisa, just as long as it is
                      readable ... lol :)

                      It just might come in handy down the track or you might be able to help
                      someone else out with it.

                      --
                      Regards
                      Andy M



                      julianworks2 wrote:
                      > Andy, short note as I'm about to head out for work: I have the auto
                      > tapping feature on this machine too. Not sure if it is the same as what
                      > you have still, but inside the head there are two limit switches, for
                      > lower limit and upper limit, that I assume will switch the direction of
                      > the spindle when tapping.
                      >
                      > thanks for all the info.
                    • Corey Renner
                      Electrolysis works well and is non-destructive to the intact metal. Another technique that I use which is even simpler is to dunk rusted parts in a mixture of
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 7, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Electrolysis works well and is non-destructive to the intact metal.  Another technique that I use which is even simpler is to dunk rusted parts in a mixture of salt and vinegar overnight.  Get a bucket big enough to hold your parts, fill with enough vinegar that your parts will be completely submerged, then dump in salt, keep adding it until it won't dissolve anymore and starts to collect on the bottom.  Put your parts in the bucket and wait overnight.  In the morning, your parts will look the same, but the rust will just wipe off with a rag leaving a perfectly de-rusted part.  Works great.  You will need to oil or otherwise treat the parts right away after removing from the bath since they will rust again quickly if given the chance.  Also, make sure that the parts are completely submerged, or you will get etching of the part at the waterline.

                        cheers,
                        c

                        On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:43 AM, julianworks2 <julian.p.67@...> wrote:
                         

                        Thank you for the suggestions on cleaning up the table. Would you suggest anything like electrolysis? That's kind of the way I was leaning as it will get into all the little places such as the Tee slots, etc, but wasn't sure if it would do any damage. That's going to be my next item to tackle here with you guys after I get it running at least. No use in cleaning the table up if i can;t get power to the spindle!

                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > http://coreyrenner.tumblr.com/
                        >




                        --
                      • julianworks2
                        So, I took the motor apart, it is perfect inside. Deciphered the diagram on the info plate on the motor and realized something. The Diagram has a typo. Not
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 9, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          So, I took the motor apart, it is perfect inside. Deciphered the diagram on the info plate on the motor and realized something. The Diagram has a typo. Not only that, but the labeling on the motor wiring terminals and the wires coming from the mill match up, but if you put the wires where they would match up to their respective terminal labeling, it effectively shorts the motor. Which is what I did.

                          Luckily, the motor runs fine. I hot wired it forward and reverse and it runs perfectly.

                          I have rewired the burned wires in the control box. In all I think I replaced 12 wires that trace back to the line input.

                          Taking a break for a while, and will go wire up the motor and see if I am closer to getting chips to fly as opposed to sparks.

                          Will keep you guys updated.

                          Oh, and I took the mill table off the Y axis today as well. after I realized the gib was tapered, and I was trying to push it out the wrong direction, it was a breeze, but I had a few moments of frustration and concern that I would neither be able to get it apart or back together if I didn;t figure something out fast.

                          Live and learn, right? Now I can say I've rewired a mill and taken the table apart....at least.

                          So far I have gotten $100 worth of entertainment from this mill, and I have a way to go before it's cleaned up and running to where I want it to be. I think I'll be happy with it once I iron out the wrinkles.

                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "julianworks2" <julian.p.67@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain for who know....how long?
                          >
                          > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot, but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.
                          >
                          > BUT!
                          >
                          > I wired it up, for 220V, to give it a test run before I spent too much time on cleaning it up and, POOF. A huge cloud of smoke comes out of the electrical control box on the back. Fried a bunch of wiring. I remember a grinding type sound when it fired up. Mind you this was all over the course of about 5 seconds, and I can not recall if I noticed the spindle spinning or not.
                          >
                          > So I;m wondering if the motor could be damaged such that it overloaded the wiring? I didn;t have it in gear properly, and some how when the motor tried to turn it it was overloaded? Or I shouldn;t have wired it up for 220V? I assumed the plug on it was a 220V plug and the diagrams and existing wiring on the motor pointed to 220V being it's previous setup.
                          >
                          > I'm at a loss....The next thing I am going to try is to hot wire the motor off of the machine and see what happens.
                          >
                          > Let me post a few pictures.
                          >
                          > Please any advice would be great, and I hope I have found the right place for this subject.
                          >
                          > https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4qgcijyjlmk2dh/IMG_20130604_161710.jpg
                          >
                          > https://www.dropbox.com/s/iffw00c44itmqjb/IMG_20130605_173621.jpg
                          >
                          > https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t26akrqhavl0sq/IMG_20130605_173627.jpg
                          >
                          > It fried almost all of what I can see as the line wires going from each of those switches/relays (not sure what they are)
                          >
                        • Vern
                          Nice recovery. Sounds like you have a great machine! -Vern Sent from my iPhone
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 9, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Nice recovery. Sounds like you have a great machine!

                            -Vern

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Jun 9, 2013, at 10:18 AM, "julianworks2" <julian.p.67@...> wrote:

                            > So, I took the motor apart, it is perfect inside. Deciphered the diagram on the info plate on the motor and realized something. The Diagram has a typo. Not only that, but the labeling on the motor wiring terminals and the wires coming from the mill match up, but if you put the wires where they would match up to their respective terminal labeling, it effectively shorts the motor. Which is what I did.
                            >
                            > Luckily, the motor runs fine. I hot wired it forward and reverse and it runs perfectly.
                            >
                            > I have rewired the burned wires in the control box. In all I think I replaced 12 wires that trace back to the line input.
                            >
                            > Taking a break for a while, and will go wire up the motor and see if I am closer to getting chips to fly as opposed to sparks.
                            >
                            > Will keep you guys updated.
                            >
                            > Oh, and I took the mill table off the Y axis today as well. after I realized the gib was tapered, and I was trying to push it out the wrong direction, it was a breeze, but I had a few moments of frustration and concern that I would neither be able to get it apart or back together if I didn;t figure something out fast.
                            >
                            > Live and learn, right? Now I can say I've rewired a mill and taken the table apart....at least.
                            >
                            > So far I have gotten $100 worth of entertainment from this mill, and I have a way to go before it's cleaned up and running to where I want it to be. I think I'll be happy with it once I iron out the wrinkles.
                            >
                            > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "julianworks2" <julian.p.67@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain for who know....how long?
                            >>
                            >> Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot, but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.
                            >>
                            >> BUT!
                            >>
                            >> I wired it up, for 220V, to give it a test run before I spent too much time on cleaning it up and, POOF. A huge cloud of smoke comes out of the electrical control box on the back. Fried a bunch of wiring. I remember a grinding type sound when it fired up. Mind you this was all over the course of about 5 seconds, and I can not recall if I noticed the spindle spinning or not.
                            >>
                            >> So I;m wondering if the motor could be damaged such that it overloaded the wiring? I didn;t have it in gear properly, and some how when the motor tried to turn it it was overloaded? Or I shouldn;t have wired it up for 220V? I assumed the plug on it was a 220V plug and the diagrams and existing wiring on the motor pointed to 220V being it's previous setup.
                            >>
                            >> I'm at a loss....The next thing I am going to try is to hot wire the motor off of the machine and see what happens.
                            >>
                            >> Let me post a few pictures.
                            >>
                            >> Please any advice would be great, and I hope I have found the right place for this subject.
                            >>
                            >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4qgcijyjlmk2dh/IMG_20130604_161710.jpg
                            >>
                            >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/iffw00c44itmqjb/IMG_20130605_173621.jpg
                            >>
                            >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t26akrqhavl0sq/IMG_20130605_173627.jpg
                            >>
                            >> It fried almost all of what I can see as the line wires going from each of those switches/relays (not sure what they are)
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • julianworks2
                            I see. You re missing the z axis buttons. Ok so this is what I can tell. In my mill are 4 contactors. 2 for each motor (main drive motor and z axis motor)
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 9, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I see. You're missing the z axis buttons.

                              Ok so this is what I can tell. In my mill are 4 contactors. 2 for each motor (main drive motor and z axis motor)

                              Each contactor handles one direction for each motor.

                              There is a transformer in my mill that transforms 220V to 24V, and as best as I can tell this is what the control panel on the front end of the machine runs off of. So You push a button, it sends a 24V signal to the respective contactor, and the contactor engages or disengages whatever operation you selected.

                              Seems pretty complicated, and it is, but it's kind of a nice idea that they chose a lower voltage for where you'd be sticking your fingers and such, but I doubt this was the sole reason why they chose to run the controls off of 24V.

                              That's my rough analysis of the basic operations of my mill, and I'd wager your's is similar. You probably only have 2 contactors, if your mill didn;t come with power Z axis from the factory.

                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > GDay julianworks2,
                              >
                              > I believe I only have a single limit switch on my mill for tapping but I
                              > have not had a good look at the headstock or the innards of the control
                              > panel yet. I'm saving that until I have the headstock lift motor etc. in
                              > position before I start messing with wiring and adding switches etc.
                              >
                              > I uploaded a picture of my control panel, you'll find it here, I hope :)
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/photos/album/499820181/pic/884963515/view
                              >
                              > As you can see, I have a lot fewer switches than you do and I'd wager
                              > that I don't have as many contactors either.
                              >
                              > While you are replacing the wires it would definitely be a good idea to
                              > draw a circuit diagram showing all the connections, wire numbers etc.
                              >
                              > If you don't have a good program for doing that then there is always MS
                              > Paint. It doesn't have to be the Mona Lisa, just as long as it is
                              > readable ... lol :)
                              >
                              > It just might come in handy down the track or you might be able to help
                              > someone else out with it.
                              >
                              > --
                              > Regards
                              > Andy M
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > julianworks2 wrote:
                              > > Andy, short note as I'm about to head out for work: I have the auto
                              > > tapping feature on this machine too. Not sure if it is the same as what
                              > > you have still, but inside the head there are two limit switches, for
                              > > lower limit and upper limit, that I assume will switch the direction of
                              > > the spindle when tapping.
                              > >
                              > > thanks for all the info.
                              >
                            • Andy M
                              GDay julianworks2, Well that sure is good news. At least you know what went wrong and why. It seems that my control panel is all 240v and everything is packed
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                GDay julianworks2,

                                Well that sure is good news. At least you know what went wrong and why.

                                It seems that my control panel is all 240v and everything is packed into
                                the control box you see in the pic. Your control panel is remote from
                                the electrics so that is probably why it is 24v. That's standard
                                industrial electrical practise.

                                Question, how heavy is your Table?

                                I have to pull mine off soon so that I can plumb the one shot oil system
                                but I'm concerned that the old muscles might not be up to the task and
                                it would help to know what to expect.

                                I don't have the Z-axis motor but I have an old garage door opener that
                                I plan to use for the purpose of lifting the head. It should serve the
                                purpose well I think.

                                Anyhow, now that you have the wiring sorted and the table cleaned up,
                                you should be able to start making chips.

                                --
                                Regards
                                Andy M



                                julianworks2 wrote:
                                > So, I took the motor apart, it is perfect inside. Deciphered the diagram
                                > on the info plate on the motor and realized something. The Diagram has a
                                > typo. Not only that, but the labeling on the motor wiring terminals and
                                > the wires coming from the mill match up, but if you put the wires where
                                > they would match up to their respective terminal labeling, it
                                > effectively shorts the motor. Which is what I did.
                                >
                                > Luckily, the motor runs fine. I hot wired it forward and reverse and it
                                > runs perfectly.
                                >
                                > I have rewired the burned wires in the control box. In all I think I
                                > replaced 12 wires that trace back to the line input.
                                >
                                > Taking a break for a while, and will go wire up the motor and see if I
                                > am closer to getting chips to fly as opposed to sparks.
                                >
                                > Will keep you guys updated.
                                >
                                > Oh, and I took the mill table off the Y axis today as well. after I
                                > realized the gib was tapered, and I was trying to push it out the wrong
                                > direction, it was a breeze, but I had a few moments of frustration and
                                > concern that I would neither be able to get it apart or back together if
                                > I didn;t figure something out fast.
                                >
                                > Live and learn, right? Now I can say I've rewired a mill and taken the
                                > table apart....at least.
                                >
                                > So far I have gotten $100 worth of entertainment from this mill, and I
                                > have a way to go before it's cleaned up and running to where I want it
                                > to be. I think I'll be happy with it once I iron out the wrinkles.
                              • julianworks2
                                That makes more sense. I was kind of confused as to why you showed me a picture of you control box, but now I get it. The table is probably 100lbs. That might
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  That makes more sense. I was kind of confused as to why you showed me a picture of you control box, but now I get it.

                                  The table is probably 100lbs. That might be a bit of a generous guess, but it should get you pretty close. You can probably take 15lbs off og it by removing the leadscrew and bearing plates. That would probably help you remove it anyway.
                                  The tapered jib is easy to remove too. Takeout the two screws that hold the gib in and mine came out left to right. So knock it out from the left with a punch. Don't make the same mistake as i did and wedge it harder in there by going the wrong direction. Once i drove it out in the right direction it came out very easily.
                                  You might have already known that but just thought I'd pass it along.

                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > GDay julianworks2,
                                  >
                                  > Well that sure is good news. At least you know what went wrong and why.
                                  >
                                  > It seems that my control panel is all 240v and everything is packed into
                                  > the control box you see in the pic. Your control panel is remote from
                                  > the electrics so that is probably why it is 24v. That's standard
                                  > industrial electrical practise.
                                  >
                                  > Question, how heavy is your Table?
                                  >
                                  > I have to pull mine off soon so that I can plumb the one shot oil system
                                  > but I'm concerned that the old muscles might not be up to the task and
                                  > it would help to know what to expect.
                                  >
                                  > I don't have the Z-axis motor but I have an old garage door opener that
                                  > I plan to use for the purpose of lifting the head. It should serve the
                                  > purpose well I think.
                                  >
                                  > Anyhow, now that you have the wiring sorted and the table cleaned up,
                                  > you should be able to start making chips.
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Regards
                                  > Andy M
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > julianworks2 wrote:
                                  > > So, I took the motor apart, it is perfect inside. Deciphered the diagram
                                  > > on the info plate on the motor and realized something. The Diagram has a
                                  > > typo. Not only that, but the labeling on the motor wiring terminals and
                                  > > the wires coming from the mill match up, but if you put the wires where
                                  > > they would match up to their respective terminal labeling, it
                                  > > effectively shorts the motor. Which is what I did.
                                  > >
                                  > > Luckily, the motor runs fine. I hot wired it forward and reverse and it
                                  > > runs perfectly.
                                  > >
                                  > > I have rewired the burned wires in the control box. In all I think I
                                  > > replaced 12 wires that trace back to the line input.
                                  > >
                                  > > Taking a break for a while, and will go wire up the motor and see if I
                                  > > am closer to getting chips to fly as opposed to sparks.
                                  > >
                                  > > Will keep you guys updated.
                                  > >
                                  > > Oh, and I took the mill table off the Y axis today as well. after I
                                  > > realized the gib was tapered, and I was trying to push it out the wrong
                                  > > direction, it was a breeze, but I had a few moments of frustration and
                                  > > concern that I would neither be able to get it apart or back together if
                                  > > I didn;t figure something out fast.
                                  > >
                                  > > Live and learn, right? Now I can say I've rewired a mill and taken the
                                  > > table apart....at least.
                                  > >
                                  > > So far I have gotten $100 worth of entertainment from this mill, and I
                                  > > have a way to go before it's cleaned up and running to where I want it
                                  > > to be. I think I'll be happy with it once I iron out the wrinkles.
                                  >
                                • julianworks2
                                  Got the motor wired up last night and meekly hooked it back up to power. Viola! Everything works as it should as far as i can tell. Mill drill mode works.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Got the motor wired up last night and meekly hooked it back up to power. Viola! Everything works as it should as far as i can tell. Mill drill mode works. Tapping mode works, the limit switches reverse and stop the machine as they should (man thats a violent switch from th motor going one direction to the other. Is that hard on it?) z axis motor works up and down, beautifully.
                                    Needless to say, i am very excited.

                                    Will get some photos up here soon and keep you guys posted on my progress with the clean up.



                                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "julianworks2" <julian.p.67@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > So, long story short, this mill I recently got for $100 is a hurricane sandy victim. The owner said it did not get submerged or subjected to salt water, rather, it was put out of the building it was in to sit in the rain for who know....how long?
                                    >
                                    > Everything seems dry. Table is pretty rusty. Power feed might be shot, but who knows, maybe I can breath some life back into it. The motor turns freely, spindle quill and taper are in perfect condition, which amazes me.
                                    >
                                    > BUT!
                                    >
                                    > I wired it up, for 220V, to give it a test run before I spent too much time on cleaning it up and, POOF. A huge cloud of smoke comes out of the electrical control box on the back. Fried a bunch of wiring. I remember a grinding type sound when it fired up. Mind you this was all over the course of about 5 seconds, and I can not recall if I noticed the spindle spinning or not.
                                    >
                                    > So I;m wondering if the motor could be damaged such that it overloaded the wiring? I didn;t have it in gear properly, and some how when the motor tried to turn it it was overloaded? Or I shouldn;t have wired it up for 220V? I assumed the plug on it was a 220V plug and the diagrams and existing wiring on the motor pointed to 220V being it's previous setup.
                                    >
                                    > I'm at a loss....The next thing I am going to try is to hot wire the motor off of the machine and see what happens.
                                    >
                                    > Let me post a few pictures.
                                    >
                                    > Please any advice would be great, and I hope I have found the right place for this subject.
                                    >
                                    > https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4qgcijyjlmk2dh/IMG_20130604_161710.jpg
                                    >
                                    > https://www.dropbox.com/s/iffw00c44itmqjb/IMG_20130605_173621.jpg
                                    >
                                    > https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t26akrqhavl0sq/IMG_20130605_173627.jpg
                                    >
                                    > It fried almost all of what I can see as the line wires going from each of those switches/relays (not sure what they are)
                                    >
                                  • Andy M
                                    GDay julianworks2, Thanks for the info, that really helps. I figured the table was around 100lbs which will probably mean it is a good idea to have a helper
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      GDay julianworks2,

                                      Thanks for the info, that really helps. I figured the table was around
                                      100lbs which will probably mean it is a good idea to have a helper handy
                                      ... lol

                                      When you say take out the screws for the gib, you do mean they are
                                      independent of each other and they are not locked into any tabs on the
                                      gib or anything like that?

                                      I guess I will find out when it comes time to pull it all apart, but a
                                      little preparation goes a long way.

                                      Thanks for the help!

                                      --
                                      Regards
                                      Andy M



                                      julianworks2 wrote:
                                      > That makes more sense. I was kind of confused as to why you showed me a
                                      > picture of you control box, but now I get it.
                                      >
                                      > The table is probably 100lbs. That might be a bit of a generous guess,
                                      > but it should get you pretty close. You can probably take 15lbs off og
                                      > it by removing the leadscrew and bearing plates. That would probably
                                      > help you remove it anyway.
                                      > The tapered jib is easy to remove too. Takeout the two screws that hold
                                      > the gib in and mine came out left to right. So knock it out from the
                                      > left with a punch. Don't make the same mistake as i did and wedge it
                                      > harder in there by going the wrong direction. Once i drove it out in the
                                      > right direction it came out very easily.
                                      > You might have already known that but just thought I'd pass it along.
                                    • Andy M
                                      GDay julianworks2, Please do upload some photos. Yes the tapping switching motion is very violent and I recommend that you use the slowest speed possible when
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        GDay julianworks2,

                                        Please do upload some photos.

                                        Yes the tapping switching motion is very violent and I recommend that
                                        you use the slowest speed possible when you tap. It can put quite a
                                        strain on the gearbox especially at higher speeds.

                                        The gearbox got a little hard to shift after the first time I tried the
                                        tapping feature, but that has settled down now and it's quite smooth again.

                                        It's amazing just how quickly that motor can change directions ... lol

                                        For $100 bucks you got a very nice machine. Mine is still new and I paid
                                        considerably more than $100!. I haven't used it much yet but I am quite
                                        happy with it :)

                                        At the moment though my Y-axis is a little stiff, part of the reason why
                                        I want to add the oiling system, but I also want to investigate the
                                        stiff Y-axis. I don't think it's the gibs because they are loose if
                                        anything. I get a fair amount of movement on the DRO by holding diagonal
                                        corners of the table and trying to twist it. So it must be the leadscrew
                                        or something else.

                                        I will get it stripped down in a day or two and hopefully I will find
                                        out exactly what is going on and correct it. The oiling system will also
                                        save a fair amount of time when it comes to maintenance.

                                        One squirt and the whole machine will be oiled with the exception of the
                                        spindle but that will only take a few squirts of an oil can :)

                                        Do you have any specific plans for your new acquisition?

                                        --
                                        Regards
                                        Andy M



                                        julianworks2 wrote:
                                        > Got the motor wired up last night and meekly hooked it back up to power.
                                        > Viola! Everything works as it should as far as i can tell. Mill drill
                                        > mode works. Tapping mode works, the limit switches reverse and stop the
                                        > machine as they should (man thats a violent switch from th motor going
                                        > one direction to the other. Is that hard on it?) z axis motor works up
                                        > and down, beautifully.
                                        > Needless to say, i am very excited.
                                        >
                                        > Will get some photos up here soon and keep you guys posted on my
                                        > progress with the clean up.
                                      • julianworks2
                                        Andy, What I ll try to do tonight after work is tae a video showing and explaining how i took my table apart. If your table is the same as mine it should be
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Andy,
                                          What I'll try to do tonight after work is tae a video showing and explaining how i took my table apart. If your table is the same as mine it should be pretty simple.
                                          Julian

                                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > GDay julianworks2,
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for the info, that really helps. I figured the table was around
                                          > 100lbs which will probably mean it is a good idea to have a helper handy
                                          > ... lol
                                          >
                                          > When you say take out the screws for the gib, you do mean they are
                                          > independent of each other and they are not locked into any tabs on the
                                          > gib or anything like that?
                                          >
                                          > I guess I will find out when it comes time to pull it all apart, but a
                                          > little preparation goes a long way.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for the help!
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Regards
                                          > Andy M
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > julianworks2 wrote:
                                          > > That makes more sense. I was kind of confused as to why you showed me a
                                          > > picture of you control box, but now I get it.
                                          > >
                                          > > The table is probably 100lbs. That might be a bit of a generous guess,
                                          > > but it should get you pretty close. You can probably take 15lbs off og
                                          > > it by removing the leadscrew and bearing plates. That would probably
                                          > > help you remove it anyway.
                                          > > The tapered jib is easy to remove too. Takeout the two screws that hold
                                          > > the gib in and mine came out left to right. So knock it out from the
                                          > > left with a punch. Don't make the same mistake as i did and wedge it
                                          > > harder in there by going the wrong direction. Once i drove it out in the
                                          > > right direction it came out very easily.
                                          > > You might have already known that but just thought I'd pass it along.
                                          >
                                        • Andy M
                                          GDay julianworks2, Thanks Julian, that will really help for sure. -- Regards Andy M
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            GDay julianworks2,

                                            Thanks Julian, that will really help for sure.

                                            --
                                            Regards
                                            Andy M



                                            julianworks2 wrote:
                                            > Andy,
                                            > What I'll try to do tonight after work is tae a video showing and
                                            > explaining how i took my table apart. If your table is the same as mine
                                            > it should be pretty simple.
                                            > Julian
                                          • julianworks2
                                            Andy, Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbI1dpD6gHc This is my first time ever uploading a video or doing any kind of tutorial on youtube, so I hope
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 10, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Andy,

                                              Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbI1dpD6gHc

                                              This is my first time ever uploading a video or doing any kind of tutorial on youtube, so I hope it is suitable enough.

                                              Let me know if you need any more info.

                                              Julian

                                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > GDay julianworks2,
                                              >
                                              > Thanks Julian, that will really help for sure.
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > Regards
                                              > Andy M
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > julianworks2 wrote:
                                              > > Andy,
                                              > > What I'll try to do tonight after work is tae a video showing and
                                              > > explaining how i took my table apart. If your table is the same as mine
                                              > > it should be pretty simple.
                                              > > Julian
                                              >
                                            • Andy M
                                              GDay julianworks2, Julian thank you very much for posting that video it was very informative. I shouldn t have any problems pulling my mill apart now. Sorry,
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 11, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                GDay julianworks2,

                                                Julian thank you very much for posting that video it was very
                                                informative. I shouldn't have any problems pulling my mill apart now.

                                                Sorry, but that's a lousy camera you were using :>) but the presentation
                                                was pretty good and you showed all the relevant parts etc.
                                                I really do appreciate the effort you put into it.

                                                FYI, when standing in front of the mill, the X-axis moves to the left
                                                and right, the Y-axis moves in and out or to and from you and the Z-axis
                                                of course moves up and down. The Z-axis includes the quill.

                                                For a lathe, the Z-axis moves left and right and the X-axis moves in and
                                                out, there is no Y-axis on a lathe ;)

                                                Another thing I should have told you was to use a mixture of molasses
                                                and water to remove the rust off the table.

                                                You would mix the molasses and water at a ratio of 10 parts water to one
                                                part molasses. You would need enough to cover the entire table in some
                                                kind of tub and let it soak for 5 days to a week. Then it's just a
                                                matter of hosing and soft brushing it off with the garden hose and you
                                                would have a table that looked like new except for any deep rust pitting.

                                                Using the scraper is not a great idea as you run the risk of damaging
                                                the machined surface of the table. It's not a huge deal, but it could
                                                come back to bite you if you are doing any kind of precision machining
                                                so keep it in mind for the future if things start coming out a little wavy.

                                                It might be a good idea to check the table for flatness when your done.

                                                Oh and don't forget to lube your machine with an ISO 68 (hydraulic
                                                fluid) lubricant or a common motor oil like 20w50 or 10w40. Personally I
                                                like the motor oils (they're cheap ;) although I use 85w90 gearbox/diff
                                                oil on my mill and in the gearbox of course. I use 20w50 on my lathe though.

                                                On my Sherline CNC machines I use Hangsterfers #2 way oil.

                                                Don't use grease anywhere on the mill except for the Z-axis gears or
                                                spindle bearings and gears.

                                                Happy machining!

                                                --
                                                Regards
                                                Andy M



                                                julianworks2 wrote:
                                                > Andy,
                                                >
                                                > Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbI1dpD6gHc
                                                >
                                                > This is my first time ever uploading a video or doing any kind of
                                                > tutorial on youtube, so I hope it is suitable enough.
                                                >
                                                > Let me know if you need any more info.
                                                >
                                                > Julian
                                              • julianworks2
                                                Andy, Thank you for the suggestions. How would you suggest checking the flatness? Indicating it after I re install it, or some other means? I am aware of the
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jun 11, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Andy,
                                                  Thank you for the suggestions.

                                                  How would you suggest checking the flatness? Indicating it after I re install it, or some other means?

                                                  I am aware of the issues of scraping the rust...but i've been very careful as to not dig into the metal. Do you really think there is a high chance I could have made it worse at this point? I hope I haven't...

                                                  Julian

                                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > GDay julianworks2,
                                                  >
                                                  > Julian thank you very much for posting that video it was very
                                                  > informative. I shouldn't have any problems pulling my mill apart now.
                                                  >
                                                  > Sorry, but that's a lousy camera you were using :>) but the presentation
                                                  > was pretty good and you showed all the relevant parts etc.
                                                  > I really do appreciate the effort you put into it.
                                                  >
                                                  > FYI, when standing in front of the mill, the X-axis moves to the left
                                                  > and right, the Y-axis moves in and out or to and from you and the Z-axis
                                                  > of course moves up and down. The Z-axis includes the quill.
                                                  >
                                                  > For a lathe, the Z-axis moves left and right and the X-axis moves in and
                                                  > out, there is no Y-axis on a lathe ;)
                                                  >
                                                  > Another thing I should have told you was to use a mixture of molasses
                                                  > and water to remove the rust off the table.
                                                  >
                                                  > You would mix the molasses and water at a ratio of 10 parts water to one
                                                  > part molasses. You would need enough to cover the entire table in some
                                                  > kind of tub and let it soak for 5 days to a week. Then it's just a
                                                  > matter of hosing and soft brushing it off with the garden hose and you
                                                  > would have a table that looked like new except for any deep rust pitting.
                                                  >
                                                  > Using the scraper is not a great idea as you run the risk of damaging
                                                  > the machined surface of the table. It's not a huge deal, but it could
                                                  > come back to bite you if you are doing any kind of precision machining
                                                  > so keep it in mind for the future if things start coming out a little wavy.
                                                  >
                                                  > It might be a good idea to check the table for flatness when your done.
                                                  >
                                                  > Oh and don't forget to lube your machine with an ISO 68 (hydraulic
                                                  > fluid) lubricant or a common motor oil like 20w50 or 10w40. Personally I
                                                  > like the motor oils (they're cheap ;) although I use 85w90 gearbox/diff
                                                  > oil on my mill and in the gearbox of course. I use 20w50 on my lathe though.
                                                  >
                                                  > On my Sherline CNC machines I use Hangsterfers #2 way oil.
                                                  >
                                                  > Don't use grease anywhere on the mill except for the Z-axis gears or
                                                  > spindle bearings and gears.
                                                  >
                                                  > Happy machining!
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  > Regards
                                                  > Andy M
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > julianworks2 wrote:
                                                  > > Andy,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbI1dpD6gHc
                                                  > >
                                                  > > This is my first time ever uploading a video or doing any kind of
                                                  > > tutorial on youtube, so I hope it is suitable enough.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Let me know if you need any more info.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Julian
                                                  >
                                                • Andy M
                                                  GDay julianworks2, Julian it is difficult to say if you have damaged the table or not. What I saw in the video looked OK and if you kept scrapping like that it
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jun 11, 2013
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    GDay julianworks2,

                                                    Julian it is difficult to say if you have damaged the table or not. What
                                                    I saw in the video looked OK and if you kept scrapping like that it
                                                    should be OK, but there is still a small chance that you are scrapping
                                                    off or flattening good metal.

                                                    The simplest method of checking is with a known straight edge and a
                                                    light. Place the straight edge across the table and shine a light behind
                                                    it. Where the table is not flat you will see light bleeding under the
                                                    straight edge. This process is not helped by pitting. Small gaps of
                                                    approx. 0.001 inches are acceptable.

                                                    Using an indicator will not be conclusive either because of the
                                                    aforementioned pitting. It will give erratic movement of the needle as
                                                    you move it across the table.

                                                    To correct the table surface you would need to surface grind it but I am
                                                    betting that you don't have one of those in your shed ... lol

                                                    It would probably be expensive to have the table surface ground and you
                                                    may have to ship it a long distance in order to have it done.

                                                    Another method will involve a surface plate, Dychem blue or similar and
                                                    hand scrapping. It can be a very laborious job though and success
                                                    depends on your skill level. I wouldn't recommend it but if you are
                                                    interested, there are a few videos on YouTube that cover the subject and
                                                    there are many other resources on the net covering the subject of hand
                                                    scrapping.

                                                    I don't think I would be too concerned about it for now. If it becomes a
                                                    problem in the future, you can work out the best course of action to
                                                    take then.

                                                    For now, just get it cleaned up, lubed, reassembled and adjusted and
                                                    start making some chips :)

                                                    Time will tell if you need to do anything else to the table.

                                                    --
                                                    Regards
                                                    Andy M



                                                    julianworks2 wrote:
                                                    > Andy,
                                                    > Thank you for the suggestions.
                                                    >
                                                    > How would you suggest checking the flatness? Indicating it after I re
                                                    > install it, or some other means?
                                                    >
                                                    > I am aware of the issues of scraping the rust...but i've been very
                                                    > careful as to not dig into the metal. Do you really think there is a
                                                    > high chance I could have made it worse at this point? I hope I haven't...
                                                    >
                                                    > Julian
                                                  • Corey Renner
                                                    The funny part is that several good (ie: non-destructive) ways to remove rust from a surface were discussed in this same thread, then he goes at it with a
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jun 11, 2013
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      The funny part is that several good (ie: non-destructive) ways to remove rust from a surface were discussed in this same thread, then he goes at it with a scraper.  I guess you can lead a horse to water...

                                                      cheers,
                                                      c


                                                      On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                                                      GDay julianworks2,

                                                      Julian it is difficult to say if you have damaged the table or not. What
                                                      I saw in the video looked OK and if you kept scrapping like that it
                                                      should be OK, but there is still a small chance that you are scrapping
                                                      off or flattening good metal.

                                                      The simplest method of checking is with a known straight edge and a
                                                      light. Place the straight edge across the table and shine a light behind
                                                      it. Where the table is not flat you will see light bleeding under the
                                                      straight edge. This process is not helped by pitting. Small gaps of
                                                      approx. 0.001 inches are acceptable.

                                                      Using an indicator will not be conclusive either because of the
                                                      aforementioned pitting. It will give erratic movement of the needle as
                                                      you move it across the table.

                                                      To correct the table surface you would need to surface grind it but I am
                                                      betting that you don't have one of those in your shed ... lol

                                                      It would probably be expensive to have the table surface ground and you
                                                      may have to ship it a long distance in order to have it done.

                                                      Another method will involve a surface plate, Dychem blue or similar and
                                                      hand scrapping. It can be a very laborious job though and success
                                                      depends on your skill level. I wouldn't recommend it but if you are
                                                      interested, there are a few videos on YouTube that cover the subject and
                                                      there are many other resources on the net covering the subject of hand
                                                      scrapping.

                                                      I don't think I would be too concerned about it for now. If it becomes a
                                                      problem in the future, you can work out the best course of action to
                                                      take then.

                                                      For now, just get it cleaned up, lubed, reassembled and adjusted and
                                                      start making some chips :)

                                                      Time will tell if you need to do anything else to the table.

                                                      --
                                                      Regards
                                                      Andy M



                                                      julianworks2 wrote:
                                                      > Andy,
                                                      > Thank you for the suggestions.
                                                      >
                                                      > How would you suggest checking the flatness? Indicating it after I re
                                                      > install it, or some other means?
                                                      >
                                                      > I am aware of the issues of scraping the rust...but i've been very
                                                      > careful as to not dig into the metal. Do you really think there is a
                                                      > high chance I could have made it worse at this point? I hope I haven't...
                                                      >
                                                      > Julian


                                                      ------------------------------------

                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/

                                                      <*> Your email settings:
                                                          Individual Email | Traditional

                                                      <*> To change settings online go to:
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/join
                                                          (Yahoo! ID required)

                                                      <*> To change settings via email:
                                                          mill_drill-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                                          mill_drill-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                                                      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          mill_drill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                                      --
                                                    • Andy M
                                                      GDay Corey, Well at least he didn t attack it with an angle grinder ... lol Age and experience help when it comes to dealing with rust. The young have a hard
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jun 11, 2013
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        GDay Corey,

                                                        Well at least he didn't attack it with an angle grinder ... lol

                                                        Age and experience help when it comes to dealing with rust. The young
                                                        have a hard time understanding it for some reason :)

                                                        --
                                                        Regards
                                                        Andy M



                                                        Corey Renner wrote:
                                                        > The funny part is that several good (ie: non-destructive) ways to remove
                                                        > rust from a surface were discussed in this same thread, then he goes at
                                                        > it with a scraper. I guess you can lead a horse to water...
                                                        >
                                                        > cheers,
                                                        > c
                                                      • julianworks2
                                                        Corey, I ll eat what you said there because it s right. I will explain my thought process though, and I ll leave it open for debate. Yeah....I figured I d
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jun 12, 2013
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Corey,

                                                          I'll eat what you said there because it's right. I will explain my thought process though, and I'll leave it open for debate.

                                                          Yeah....I figured I'd catch a bit of flak for including that in the video. The bottom line is that I decided to make a calculated risk of scraping the majority of the rust off the way that I did, knowing the risks involved and also knowing what to look for and when to stop if I was doing noticeable damage. Yes, I know, some of these methods can cause "invisible" damage that you won't realize until it's too late. As I said "risk".

                                                          Going back to my thought process. I realized the possibility of unintentionally "scraping" the good metal, in the sense of how one would scrape a surface to true it. But then I thought to myself, how hard would one have to work with a razor blade, a thin and flexible one at that to remove any good metal to speak of? We've all seen the videos of someone scraping a surface and how hard one has to apply pressure to the scraper to achieve results. So, with those justifications in mind I had a ginger go at the rust with the razor. I tried a small area with light pressure to start with. The blade wasn't digging in or scratching the good metal underneath, so I decided to pretty much complete the process that way as it was removing the rust well.

                                                          I appreciate criticism and welcome it, so I'd enjoy your thoughts on my thoughts. I'd like to stay constructive and learn as much as I can.

                                                          One final note, after checking the surfaces of the table with a straight edge and light, there is less than .001" gap over 24" where the straight edge touches the table on the left and right, where the rust was the worst (the left and right of the table were not under the head, where this machine was left to sit in the rain) so the rust was progressively worse toward each end of the table, and I feel that there is still rust built up at the very ends of the table, where the straight edge touches. What I mean to say is that, so far, everything indicates that the table shows to have remained pretty darn flat. But I think a better test would be to pick up the flatness of the table with a precision block and indicator, as one would do with an older more worn table, as this table is not nor would have been anywhere close to being new, no matter what processes one would choose to remove the rust.

                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Julian



                                                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > The funny part is that several good (ie: non-destructive) ways to remove
                                                          > rust from a surface were discussed in this same thread, then he goes at it
                                                          > with a scraper. I guess you can lead a horse to water...
                                                          >
                                                          > cheers,
                                                          > c
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > > GDay julianworks2,
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Julian it is difficult to say if you have damaged the table or not. What
                                                          > > I saw in the video looked OK and if you kept scrapping like that it
                                                          > > should be OK, but there is still a small chance that you are scrapping
                                                          > > off or flattening good metal.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > The simplest method of checking is with a known straight edge and a
                                                          > > light. Place the straight edge across the table and shine a light behind
                                                          > > it. Where the table is not flat you will see light bleeding under the
                                                          > > straight edge. This process is not helped by pitting. Small gaps of
                                                          > > approx. 0.001 inches are acceptable.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Using an indicator will not be conclusive either because of the
                                                          > > aforementioned pitting. It will give erratic movement of the needle as
                                                          > > you move it across the table.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > To correct the table surface you would need to surface grind it but I am
                                                          > > betting that you don't have one of those in your shed ... lol
                                                          > >
                                                          > > It would probably be expensive to have the table surface ground and you
                                                          > > may have to ship it a long distance in order to have it done.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Another method will involve a surface plate, Dychem blue or similar and
                                                          > > hand scrapping. It can be a very laborious job though and success
                                                          > > depends on your skill level. I wouldn't recommend it but if you are
                                                          > > interested, there are a few videos on YouTube that cover the subject and
                                                          > > there are many other resources on the net covering the subject of hand
                                                          > > scrapping.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I don't think I would be too concerned about it for now. If it becomes a
                                                          > > problem in the future, you can work out the best course of action to
                                                          > > take then.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > For now, just get it cleaned up, lubed, reassembled and adjusted and
                                                          > > start making some chips :)
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Time will tell if you need to do anything else to the table.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --
                                                          > > Regards
                                                          > > Andy M
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > julianworks2 wrote:
                                                          > > > Andy,
                                                          > > > Thank you for the suggestions.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > How would you suggest checking the flatness? Indicating it after I re
                                                          > > > install it, or some other means?
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > I am aware of the issues of scraping the rust...but i've been very
                                                          > > > careful as to not dig into the metal. Do you really think there is a
                                                          > > > high chance I could have made it worse at this point? I hope I haven't...
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Julian
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ------------------------------------
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > http://coreyrenner.tumblr.com/
                                                          >
                                                        • julianworks2
                                                          Andy, I posted a response to Corey, which you might like to read as concerns my thought processes that led me to the method I chose. I tried your suggestion
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jun 12, 2013
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Andy,

                                                            I posted a response to Corey, which you might like to read as concerns my thought processes that led me to the method I chose.

                                                            I tried your suggestion with a 24" straight edge and there is less than .001" across the 24" and I believe the relatively even .001" gab is due to remaining rust build up on the left and right of the table.

                                                            I thank you for all your suggestions.

                                                            Julian

                                                            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Andy M <trumpy81@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > GDay julianworks2,
                                                            >
                                                            > Julian it is difficult to say if you have damaged the table or not. What
                                                            > I saw in the video looked OK and if you kept scrapping like that it
                                                            > should be OK, but there is still a small chance that you are scrapping
                                                            > off or flattening good metal.
                                                            >
                                                            > The simplest method of checking is with a known straight edge and a
                                                            > light. Place the straight edge across the table and shine a light behind
                                                            > it. Where the table is not flat you will see light bleeding under the
                                                            > straight edge. This process is not helped by pitting. Small gaps of
                                                            > approx. 0.001 inches are acceptable.
                                                            >
                                                            > Using an indicator will not be conclusive either because of the
                                                            > aforementioned pitting. It will give erratic movement of the needle as
                                                            > you move it across the table.
                                                            >
                                                            > To correct the table surface you would need to surface grind it but I am
                                                            > betting that you don't have one of those in your shed ... lol
                                                            >
                                                            > It would probably be expensive to have the table surface ground and you
                                                            > may have to ship it a long distance in order to have it done.
                                                            >
                                                            > Another method will involve a surface plate, Dychem blue or similar and
                                                            > hand scrapping. It can be a very laborious job though and success
                                                            > depends on your skill level. I wouldn't recommend it but if you are
                                                            > interested, there are a few videos on YouTube that cover the subject and
                                                            > there are many other resources on the net covering the subject of hand
                                                            > scrapping.
                                                            >
                                                            > I don't think I would be too concerned about it for now. If it becomes a
                                                            > problem in the future, you can work out the best course of action to
                                                            > take then.
                                                            >
                                                            > For now, just get it cleaned up, lubed, reassembled and adjusted and
                                                            > start making some chips :)
                                                            >
                                                            > Time will tell if you need to do anything else to the table.
                                                            >
                                                            > --
                                                            > Regards
                                                            > Andy M
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > julianworks2 wrote:
                                                            > > Andy,
                                                            > > Thank you for the suggestions.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > How would you suggest checking the flatness? Indicating it after I re
                                                            > > install it, or some other means?
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I am aware of the issues of scraping the rust...but i've been very
                                                            > > careful as to not dig into the metal. Do you really think there is a
                                                            > > high chance I could have made it worse at this point? I hope I haven't...
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Julian
                                                            >
                                                          • Andy M
                                                            GDay julianworks2, Julian the straight edge and light check should resolve any concerns you may have had. Assuming you are correct in your observations, then I
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jun 12, 2013
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              GDay julianworks2,

                                                              Julian the straight edge and light check should resolve any concerns you
                                                              may have had. Assuming you are correct in your observations, then I
                                                              don't think you have anything to worry about at all, which is good news :)

                                                              We oldies tend to err on the side of caution, usually because we've been
                                                              there, done that and cocked it up (at least once ;) ... lol

                                                              Do you have any projects in mind for the new mill or is that still a
                                                              work in progress?

                                                              --
                                                              Regards
                                                              Andy M



                                                              julianworks2 wrote:
                                                              > Andy,
                                                              >
                                                              > I posted a response to Corey, which you might like to read as concerns
                                                              > my thought processes that led me to the method I chose.
                                                              >
                                                              > I tried your suggestion with a 24" straight edge and there is less than
                                                              > .001" across the 24" and I believe the relatively even .001" gab is due
                                                              > to remaining rust build up on the left and right of the table.
                                                              >
                                                              > I thank you for all your suggestions.
                                                              >
                                                              > Julian
                                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.