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Re: Rescued Rutland Tools Mill Drill

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  • Michael Parrish
    Get a 3 phase motor and a VFD. Eliminate the switch, get reverse, control RPM with a dial (alot less belt changes/gear shifting). I wired my 2 speed motor to
    Message 1 of 22 , May 17, 2013
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      Get a 3 phase motor and a VFD. Eliminate the switch, get reverse, control RPM with a dial (alot less belt changes/gear shifting). I wired my 2 speed motor to the low speed windings and use the VFD for high RPM (mine goes to 400hz). Best thing I have ever gotten for the mill. I bought a surplus 3 phase for my lathe and I am saving my nickles for another VFD. With a little greative wiring and programing, I could use one for both. They are not that expensive and I am lazy. I got the remote control pad with my VFD and mounted it right on the front of the mill's head. The VFD is safely hidden away in the mill's cabinet. Just do it and don't look back. Mike

      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Vern <n7gtb@...> wrote:
      >
      > I figured at this point I'll get it operational, then find a more suitable motor later... This way, I can shake out any other issues.
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      > On May 17, 2013, at 5:32 PM, "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" <starlight_tools@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > I use reverse on my mill regularly. Left hand drill bits, fly cutter, etc
      > >
      > > Be careful about leaving that feature out.
      > >
      > > Walter
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Jerome Kimberlin
      > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:27 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Rescued Rutland Tools Mill Drill
      > >
      > > On 5/17/2013 4:15 PM, Corey Renner wrote:
      > >> Vern,
      > >> you don't need reverse on a mill-drill. Use the motor you've got.
      > >
      > > I have a VFD and I'd be lost without a reverse. How do you back out a tap when using the mill drill for tapping? Or cut around the outside with a boring bar and boring head without reverse? What about left handed end mills? I have a few of those.
      > >
      > > JerryK
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Vern
      Any suggestions on VFD/Mfg to avoid? I ve read that they aren t all created equal... I ll keep an eye out for a 3 phase (220 v) motor. They seem plentiful on
      Message 2 of 22 , May 18, 2013
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        Any suggestions on VFD/Mfg to avoid? I've read that they aren't all created equal...

        I'll keep an eye out for a 3 phase (220 v) motor. They seem plentiful on epay, but not so much in my local area, unless I go with new ($$$).

        Thanks again to everyone in the group for responding to my questions...

        - Vern

        Sent from my iPhone

        On May 17, 2013, at 6:16 PM, "Michael Parrish" <mike@...> wrote:

        > Get a 3 phase motor and a VFD. Eliminate the switch, get reverse, control RPM with a dial (alot less belt changes/gear shifting). I wired my 2 speed motor to the low speed windings and use the VFD for high RPM (mine goes to 400hz). Best thing I have ever gotten for the mill. I bought a surplus 3 phase for my lathe and I am saving my nickles for another VFD. With a little greative wiring and programing, I could use one for both. They are not that expensive and I am lazy. I got the remote control pad with my VFD and mounted it right on the front of the mill's head. The VFD is safely hidden away in the mill's cabinet. Just do it and don't look back. Mike
        >
        > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Vern <n7gtb@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> I figured at this point I'll get it operational, then find a more suitable motor later... This way, I can shake out any other issues.
        >>
        >> Sent from my iPhone
        >>
        >> On May 17, 2013, at 5:32 PM, "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" <starlight_tools@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> I use reverse on my mill regularly. Left hand drill bits, fly cutter, etc
        >>>
        >>> Be careful about leaving that feature out.
        >>>
        >>> Walter
        >>>
        >>> ----- Original Message -----
        >>> From: Jerome Kimberlin
        >>> To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
        >>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:27 PM
        >>> Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Rescued Rutland Tools Mill Drill
        >>>
        >>> On 5/17/2013 4:15 PM, Corey Renner wrote:
        >>>> Vern,
        >>>> you don't need reverse on a mill-drill. Use the motor you've got.
        >>>
        >>> I have a VFD and I'd be lost without a reverse. How do you back out a tap when using the mill drill for tapping? Or cut around the outside with a boring bar and boring head without reverse? What about left handed end mills? I have a few of those.
        >>>
        >>> JerryK
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Michael Parrish
        I have an Automation Direct GS2 [
        Message 3 of 22 , May 18, 2013
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          I have an Automation Direct GS2 [ http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC) ]. That link is long and crazy, may not work. Just Google Automation Direct GS2. I used a 230v 1 or 3 phase in / 3 phase out model (using 230 volt, single phase in). Make sure you get one with an amperage rating greater than the motor's tag. If not, you won't get max power/rpm out of the motor. They have an optional cable that remotes the control module, highly recommended. There are also optional resistors that enable braking. I didn't get any. You can program a reasonable decel rate, as-is. With braking you could make it stop the spindle instantly. I don't know what to avoid, this is the only VFD I have ever had. These are volts/hertz drives. There are different types of VFD's (they include Volts/Hz, Voltage Vector, Voltage Vector +, Flux Vector and Servo). Volts/hertz are "variable torque", it has to do with maintaining torque at low (really low), rpm. Volts/hertz works for me. You may want to read up on it though. Good hunting, I love what mine does for my mill, Mike

          Rong Fu JFC45N2F (3 phase, 2 speed, dovetail column, power down feed)



          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Vern <n7gtb@...> wrote:
          >
          > Any suggestions on VFD/Mfg to avoid? I've read that they aren't all created equal...
          >
          > I'll keep an eye out for a 3 phase (220 v) motor. They seem plentiful on epay, but not so much in my local area, unless I go with new ($$$).
          >
          > Thanks again to everyone in the group for responding to my questions...
          >
          > - Vern
          >
          > Sent from my iPhone
          >
          > On May 17, 2013, at 6:16 PM, "Michael Parrish" <mike@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Get a 3 phase motor and a VFD. Eliminate the switch, get reverse, control RPM with a dial (alot less belt changes/gear shifting). I wired my 2 speed motor to the low speed windings and use the VFD for high RPM (mine goes to 400hz). Best thing I have ever gotten for the mill. I bought a surplus 3 phase for my lathe and I am saving my nickles for another VFD. With a little greative wiring and programing, I could use one for both. They are not that expensive and I am lazy. I got the remote control pad with my VFD and mounted it right on the front of the mill's head. The VFD is safely hidden away in the mill's cabinet. Just do it and don't look back. Mike
          > >
          > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Vern <n7gtb@> wrote:
          > >>
          > >> I figured at this point I'll get it operational, then find a more suitable motor later... This way, I can shake out any other issues.
          > >>
          > >> Sent from my iPhone
          > >>
          > >> On May 17, 2013, at 5:32 PM, "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" <starlight_tools@> wrote:
          > >>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>> I use reverse on my mill regularly. Left hand drill bits, fly cutter, etc
          > >>>
          > >>> Be careful about leaving that feature out.
          > >>>
          > >>> Walter
          > >>>
          > >>> ----- Original Message -----
          > >>> From: Jerome Kimberlin
          > >>> To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          > >>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:27 PM
          > >>> Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Rescued Rutland Tools Mill Drill
          > >>>
          > >>> On 5/17/2013 4:15 PM, Corey Renner wrote:
          > >>>> Vern,
          > >>>> you don't need reverse on a mill-drill. Use the motor you've got.
          > >>>
          > >>> I have a VFD and I'd be lost without a reverse. How do you back out a tap when using the mill drill for tapping? Or cut around the outside with a boring bar and boring head without reverse? What about left handed end mills? I have a few of those.
          > >>>
          > >>> JerryK
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Vern
          Thank again Michael. The link worked fine. Once I ve settled on a replacement motor, the VFD can be identified... My younger son and I fitted the single
          Message 4 of 22 , May 18, 2013
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            Thank again Michael. The link worked fine. Once I've settled on a replacement motor, the VFD can be identified...

            My younger son and I fitted the single phase motor, and gave it a go. It's a Dayton brand compressor motor, that also spins twice as fast as the old one. With that in mind, I also fitted as small a pulley as I could, to index with the largest idler, etc.. Spins up nice, but only had it powered up for a minute or two. Just long enough to flush out drive train issues.

            I was able to access the upper taper roller (thrust) bearing, and force grease into it. But I'd feel better about things if I could grease the lower one as well. I have a parts break-down from an Enco that looks pretty similar. Might give me enough info to deduce how the beast comes apart...

            Sent from my iPhone

            On May 18, 2013, at 10:53 AM, "Michael Parrish" <mike@...> wrote:

            > I have an Automation Direct GS2 [ http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS2_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS2_Drive_Units_(115_-z-_230_-z-_460_-z-_575_VAC) ]. That link is long and crazy, may not work. Just Google Automation Direct GS2. I used a 230v 1 or 3 phase in / 3 phase out model (using 230 volt, single phase in). Make sure you get one with an amperage rating greater than the motor's tag. If not, you won't get max power/rpm out of the motor. They have an optional cable that remotes the control module, highly recommended. There are also optional resistors that enable braking. I didn't get any. You can program a reasonable decel rate, as-is. With braking you could make it stop the spindle instantly. I don't know what to avoid, this is the only VFD I have ever had. These are volts/hertz drives. There are different types of VFD's (they include Volts/Hz, Voltage Vector, Voltage Vector +, Flux Vector and Servo). Volts/hertz are "variable torque", it has to do with maintaining torque at low (really low), rpm. Volts/hertz works for me. You may want to read up on it though. Good hunting, I love what mine does for my mill, Mike
            >
            > Rong Fu JFC45N2F (3 phase, 2 speed, dovetail column, power down feed)
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Vern <n7gtb@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Any suggestions on VFD/Mfg to avoid? I've read that they aren't all created equal...
            >>
            >> I'll keep an eye out for a 3 phase (220 v) motor. They seem plentiful on epay, but not so much in my local area, unless I go with new ($$$).
            >>
            >> Thanks again to everyone in the group for responding to my questions...
            >>
            >> - Vern
            >>
            >> Sent from my iPhone
            >>
            >> On May 17, 2013, at 6:16 PM, "Michael Parrish" <mike@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>> Get a 3 phase motor and a VFD. Eliminate the switch, get reverse, control RPM with a dial (alot less belt changes/gear shifting). I wired my 2 speed motor to the low speed windings and use the VFD for high RPM (mine goes to 400hz). Best thing I have ever gotten for the mill. I bought a surplus 3 phase for my lathe and I am saving my nickles for another VFD. With a little greative wiring and programing, I could use one for both. They are not that expensive and I am lazy. I got the remote control pad with my VFD and mounted it right on the front of the mill's head. The VFD is safely hidden away in the mill's cabinet. Just do it and don't look back. Mike
            >>>
            >>> --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Vern <n7gtb@> wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>> I figured at this point I'll get it operational, then find a more suitable motor later... This way, I can shake out any other issues.
            >>>>
            >>>> Sent from my iPhone
            >>>>
            >>>> On May 17, 2013, at 5:32 PM, "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" <starlight_tools@> wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I use reverse on my mill regularly. Left hand drill bits, fly cutter, etc
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Be careful about leaving that feature out.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Walter
            >>>>>
            >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
            >>>>> From: Jerome Kimberlin
            >>>>> To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
            >>>>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:27 PM
            >>>>> Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Rescued Rutland Tools Mill Drill
            >>>>>
            >>>>> On 5/17/2013 4:15 PM, Corey Renner wrote:
            >>>>>> Vern,
            >>>>>> you don't need reverse on a mill-drill. Use the motor you've got.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I have a VFD and I'd be lost without a reverse. How do you back out a tap when using the mill drill for tapping? Or cut around the outside with a boring bar and boring head without reverse? What about left handed end mills? I have a few of those.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> JerryK
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> ------------------------------------
            >>>
            >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Vern
            The mill-drill has new life now with the single phase compressor motor. I pulled the motor apart, spliced in some jumpers, connected them to the original
            Message 5 of 22 , May 24, 2013
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              The mill-drill has new life now with the single phase compressor motor.  I pulled the motor apart, spliced in some jumpers, connected them to the original 'Forward-Reverse' switch, and use a set of small electrical breakers as on-off switch.  It's not perfect, but will do until I can locate a three phase motor, and save up enough nickels to buy a VFD...

              The old girl has forward, reverse, some limited speed variability.  When my collets and end mills arrive, I'll whittle on a cast block of aluminum to check out the rest...

              -Vern

              Sent from my iPhone

              On May 17, 2013, at 5:32 PM, "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" <starlight_tools@...> wrote:

              I use reverse on my mill regularly.  Left hand drill bits, fly cutter, etc
               
              Be careful about leaving that feature out.
               
              Walter
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:27 PM
              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Rescued Rutland Tools Mill Drill

               

              On 5/17/2013 4:15 PM, Corey Renner wrote:
              Vern,
              you don't need reverse on a mill-drill.  Use the motor you've got.

              I have a VFD and I'd be lost without a reverse.  How do you back out a tap when using the mill drill for tapping?  Or cut around the outside with a boring bar and boring head without reverse?  What about left handed end mills?  I have a few of those.

              JerryK

            • Corey Renner
              Nicely done. cheers, c
              Message 6 of 22 , May 24, 2013
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                Nicely done.

                cheers,
                c


                On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Vern <n7gtb@...> wrote:
                 

                The mill-drill has new life now with the single phase compressor motor.  I pulled the motor apart, spliced in some jumpers, connected them to the original 'Forward-Reverse' switch, and use a set of small electrical breakers as on-off switch.  It's not perfect, but will do until I can locate a three phase motor, and save up enough nickels to buy a VFD...

                The old girl has forward, reverse, some limited speed variability.  When my collets and end mills arrive, I'll whittle on a cast block of aluminum to check out the rest...

                -Vern

                Sent from my iPhone

                On May 17, 2013, at 5:32 PM, "Starlight Tool Services Ltd" <starlight_tools@...> wrote:

                I use reverse on my mill regularly.  Left hand drill bits, fly cutter, etc
                 
                Be careful about leaving that feature out.
                 
                Walter
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:27 PM
                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Rescued Rutland Tools Mill Drill

                 

                On 5/17/2013 4:15 PM, Corey Renner wrote:
                Vern,
                you don't need reverse on a mill-drill.  Use the motor you've got.

                I have a VFD and I'd be lost without a reverse.  How do you back out a tap when using the mill drill for tapping?  Or cut around the outside with a boring bar and boring head without reverse?  What about left handed end mills?  I have a few of those.

                JerryK


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