RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole [1 Attachment]

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• John, This is a good start but there is more to it. If the flat to flat distance is ¼”, then using 1/16” holes plus a ¼” center hole is good enough.
Message 1 of 24 , Mar 7, 2013

John,

This is a good start but there is more to it. If the flat to flat distance is ¼”, then using 1/16” holes plus a ¼” center hole is good enough. But as you go to larger flat to flat distances, more small holes are needed to minimize error.

The challenge is to calculate the diameter and location of these small holes. They will not all be 1/16”.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 3:32 AM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from John included below]

So instead of doing real work for the past day or so, I went ahead and wrote a program to calculate and visualize the drilled hex holes based on fractional drill sizes (screenshot is attached).  I'd be more than happy to share it, though I wrote it in Python and I'm not sure if that's a deal killer for the folks here.  Mac and Linux come with Python pre-installed, and I believe I can make a stand alone EXE file for windows if desired.  Worst case I can possibly even port it into Javascript so that it can be run in a web browser.

Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get it into the hands of anyone that wants it.  What does everyone think?

-John

--- On Wed, 3/6/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 6:42 AM

John,

Thanks for catching the error. It is now fixed plus I made the equations look a little better:

The figures are right, only the equations were wrong.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:58 PM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole

Hey Rick, I just started going through the theory section in your paper - should the initial calculation for the hypotenuse (center to hex corner) be:

1/8 / cos(30)

1/8 x cos(30)

-John

--- On Sat, 3/2/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 8:27 PM

John,

That would be very impressive.

Rick

On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:26 PM, John <jennasys@...> wrote:

If I get some time, I'll try and write up a little program to calculate drill sizes to get the best fit/require the least amount of cleanup.

John

--- On Sat, 3/2/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 6:15 PM

John,

I was going to write up the general case as an article but then realized there is no general case. You just have to pick drill sizes that take out the most material.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:52 PM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole

Hey Rick,

I don't have the mating part in front of me, but IIRC it was about a 7/16" hex.  It just needed to be a slip fit, so I'm not too worried about tolerances.  I was thinking I'd go a little bigger on the holes for the corners and use a small file to make the flats a little "flatter" after the center drill operation.

-John

--- On Sun, 2/24/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 3:57 AM

John,

Glad to be of service.  What size hex do you plan to drill?

Rick

On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:57 AM, John <jennasys@...> wrote:

 Awesome.  I have a project where I need to make a single hex hole and this will work beautifully.  I had already planned on using a similar technique, but this spells out exactly what I need to do.  Thanks for posting it!-John --- On Tue, 2/19/13, Rick Sparber wrote:From: Rick Sparber Subject: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal HoleTo: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com, mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, smithy-machines@yahoogroups.com, 3_in_1_Lathe_Mill_Drill@yahoogroups.comDate: Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 9:22 AM This article, intended for those new to our hobby of metalworking, explains how you can drill a hole with a hexagonal cross section. I provide all needed dimensions for a ¼” hex bit plus the math enabling you to drill any size polygon.  If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/dhh.pdf Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. For the full index of my articles, see rick.sparber.org. Rick

Attachment(s) from John

1 of 1 Photo(s)

• Actually, that s why I decided to create the program. On this version I made the following assumptions:  1.  Only one hole per corner will be drilled, using
Message 2 of 24 , Mar 7, 2013

Actually, that's why I decided to create the program.

On this version I made the following assumptions:

1.  Only one hole per corner will be drilled, using a fractional drill bit.

2.  The center drill will be the same size as the hex (flat-to-flat)

The program (as it currently stands) allows you to enter the desired hex size.  Using the up/down arrow keys, it will cycle through different hole sizes for the corners by 1/64ths.  Each time a different hole size is selected, it will recalculate the corner hole positions (X & Y), as well as recalculate the extra area removed in the corners and the area that's left behind on the flats that will still need to be removed.  When you hit a ratio of 1.0 between these two areas it would mean the extra area removed around the corners is about the same area as the bits on the flats that will need to be removed - essentially balancing the two factors.

As a bonus I also added an option to just show the outline created to better visualize the resulting semi-finished hole (see attached).

I suppose it would be possible to add the ability to maybe drill 3 holes in each corner (one large and 2 smaller ones on either side of it) to remove additional material on larger hex sizes, though then you go from drilling 7 holes to drilling 19 with 3 different sizes.  I guess that just depends on how close you need it and how much clean up you're willing to do.

Well, if there's interest, I can give it some more thought.  The math should be interesting.

-John

--- On Thu, 3/7/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 3:30 AM

John,

This is a good start but there is more to it. If the flat to flat distance is ¼”, then using 1/16” holes plus a ¼” center hole is good enough. But as you go to larger flat to flat distances, more small holes are needed to minimize error.

The challenge is to calculate the diameter and location of these small holes. They will not all be 1/16”.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 3:32 AM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from John included below]

So instead of doing real work for the past day or so, I went ahead and wrote a program to calculate and visualize the drilled hex holes based on fractional drill sizes (screenshot is attached).  I'd be more than happy to share it, though I wrote it in Python and I'm not sure if that's a deal killer for the folks here.  Mac and Linux come with Python pre-installed, and I believe I can make a stand alone EXE file for windows if desired.  Worst case I can possibly even port it into Javascript so that it can be run in a web browser.

Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get it into the hands of anyone that wants it.  What does everyone think?

-John

--- On Wed, 3/6/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 6:42 AM

John,

Thanks for catching the error. It is now fixed plus I made the equations look a little better:

http://rick.sparber.org/dhh.pdf

The figures are right, only the equations were wrong.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:58 PM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole

Hey Rick, I just started going through the theory section in your paper - should the initial calculation for the hypotenuse (center to hex corner) be:

1/8 / cos(30)

1/8 x cos(30)

-John

--- On Sat, 3/2/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 8:27 PM

John,

That would be very impressive.

Rick

On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:26 PM, John <jennasys@...> wrote:

If I get some time, I'll try and write up a little program to calculate drill sizes to get the best fit/require the least amount of cleanup.

John

--- On Sat, 3/2/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 6:15 PM

John,

I was going to write up the general case as an article but then realized there is no general case. You just have to pick drill sizes that take out the most material.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:52 PM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole

Hey Rick,

I don't have the mating part in front of me, but IIRC it was about a 7/16" hex.  It just needed to be a slip fit, so I'm not too worried about tolerances.  I was thinking I'd go a little bigger on the holes for the corners and use a small file to make the flats a little "flatter" after the center drill operation.

-John

--- On Sun, 2/24/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 3:57 AM

John,

Glad to be of service.  What size hex do you plan to drill?

Rick

On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:57 AM, John <jennasys@...> wrote:

 Awesome.  I have a project where I need to make a single hex hole and this will work beautifully.  I had already planned on using a similar technique, but this spells out exactly what I need to do.  Thanks for posting it!-John --- On Tue, 2/19/13, Rick Sparber wrote:From: Rick Sparber Subject: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal HoleTo: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com, mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, smithy-machines@yahoogroups.com, 3_in_1_Lathe_Mill_Drill@yahoogroups.comDate: Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 9:22 AM This article, intended for those new to our hobby of metalworking, explains how you can drill a hole with a hexagonal cross section. I provide all needed dimensions for a ¼” hex bit plus the math enabling you to drill any size polygon.  If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/dhh.pdf Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. For the full index of my articles, see rick.sparber.org. Rick

Attachment(s) from John

1 of 1 Photo(s)

• John, I found the math daunting. For example, set the flat to flat distance at ½” and drill 1/16” holes at each point. Then drill the center ½” hole.
Message 3 of 24 , Mar 7, 2013

John,

I found the math daunting. For example, set the flat to flat distance at ½” and drill 1/16” holes at each point. Then drill the center ½” hole. You will see that the excess metal to be removed is large. By eye I can pick drill sizes and hole placement to get this excess as small as I like. But doing with a program is tricky. Of course, if you drill multiple small holes, you want to keep a web of around 0.01” between holes so the drill does not break through. The large central hole doesn’t care about the smaller holes both because it is so much larger and because the smaller holes will be equally distributed around the center so no net lateral force is present.

Best of luck!

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 5:55 AM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from John included below]

Actually, that's why I decided to create the program.

On this version I made the following assumptions:

1.  Only one hole per corner will be drilled, using a fractional drill bit.

2.  The center drill will be the same size as the hex (flat-to-flat)

The program (as it currently stands) allows you to enter the desired hex size.  Using the up/down arrow keys, it will cycle through different hole sizes for the corners by 1/64ths.  Each time a different hole size is selected, it will recalculate the corner hole positions (X & Y), as well as recalculate the extra area removed in the corners and the area that's left behind on the flats that will still need to be removed.  When you hit a ratio of 1.0 between these two areas it would mean the extra area removed around the corners is about the same area as the bits on the flats that will need to be removed - essentially balancing the two factors.

As a bonus I also added an option to just show the outline created to better visualize the resulting semi-finished hole (see attached).

I suppose it would be possible to add the ability to maybe drill 3 holes in each corner (one large and 2 smaller ones on either side of it) to remove additional material on larger hex sizes, though then you go from drilling 7 holes to drilling 19 with 3 different sizes.  I guess that just depends on how close you need it and how much clean up you're willing to do.

Well, if there's interest, I can give it some more thought.  The math should be interesting.

-John

--- On Thu, 3/7/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 3:30 AM

John,

This is a good start but there is more to it. If the flat to flat distance is ¼”, then using 1/16” holes plus a ¼” center hole is good enough. But as you go to larger flat to flat distances, more small holes are needed to minimize error.

The challenge is to calculate the diameter and location of these small holes. They will not all be 1/16”.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 3:32 AM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from John included below]

So instead of doing real work for the past day or so, I went ahead and wrote a program to calculate and visualize the drilled hex holes based on fractional drill sizes (screenshot is attached).  I'd be more than happy to share it, though I wrote it in Python and I'm not sure if that's a deal killer for the folks here.  Mac and Linux come with Python pre-installed, and I believe I can make a stand alone EXE file for windows if desired.  Worst case I can possibly even port it into Javascript so that it can be run in a web browser.

Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get it into the hands of anyone that wants it.  What does everyone think?

-John

--- On Wed, 3/6/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 6, 2013, 6:42 AM

John,

Thanks for catching the error. It is now fixed plus I made the equations look a little better:

http://rick.sparber.org/dhh.pdf

The figures are right, only the equations were wrong.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:58 PM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole

Hey Rick, I just started going through the theory section in your paper - should the initial calculation for the hypotenuse (center to hex corner) be:

1/8 / cos(30)

1/8 x cos(30)

-John

--- On Sat, 3/2/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 8:27 PM

John,

That would be very impressive.

Rick

On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:26 PM, John <jennasys@...> wrote:

If I get some time, I'll try and write up a little program to calculate drill sizes to get the best fit/require the least amount of cleanup.

John

--- On Sat, 3/2/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 2, 2013, 6:15 PM

John,

I was going to write up the general case as an article but then realized there is no general case. You just have to pick drill sizes that take out the most material.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:52 PM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole

Hey Rick,

I don't have the mating part in front of me, but IIRC it was about a 7/16" hex.  It just needed to be a slip fit, so I'm not too worried about tolerances.  I was thinking I'd go a little bigger on the holes for the corners and use a small file to make the flats a little "flatter" after the center drill operation.

-John

--- On Sun, 2/24/13, Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...> wrote:

From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole
To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 3:57 AM

John,

Glad to be of service.  What size hex do you plan to drill?

Rick

On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:57 AM, John <jennasys@...> wrote:

 Awesome.  I have a project where I need to make a single hex hole and this will work beautifully.  I had already planned on using a similar technique, but this spells out exactly what I need to do.  Thanks for posting it!-John --- On Tue, 2/19/13, Rick Sparber wrote:From: Rick Sparber Subject: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal HoleTo: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com, mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, smithy-machines@yahoogroups.com, 3_in_1_Lathe_Mill_Drill@yahoogroups.comDate: Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 9:22 AM This article, intended for those new to our hobby of metalworking, explains how you can drill a hole with a hexagonal cross section. I provide all needed dimensions for a ¼” hex bit plus the math enabling you to drill any size polygon.  If you are interested, please see http://rick.sparber.org/dhh.pdf Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us. For the full index of my articles, see rick.sparber.org. Rick

Attachment(s) from John

1 of 1 Photo(s)

Attachment(s) from John

1 of 1 Photo(s)

• Rick, your eye seems to be pretty accurate as the 1/16 hole for the 1/4 hex looks to be about right based on the theory as well.  You also make a good point
Message 4 of 24 , Mar 7, 2013
• John, You give me too much credit. I chose 1/16” because that was the smallest drill in my fractional drill set and I had spares. I tried to use my CAD
Message 5 of 24 , Mar 7, 2013

John,

You give me too much credit. I chose 1/16” because that was the smallest drill in my fractional drill set and I had spares.

I tried to use my CAD program to help me see the general case for any size polygon but it quickly got very complicated. Clearly a 1/16” hole at each point is a good start. But beyond that, it gets very tricky.

Rick

From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 3:46 PM
To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal Hole

 Rick, your eye seems to be pretty accurate as the 1/16" hole for the 1/4" hex looks to be about right based on the theory as well.  You also make a good point about keeping a wall between the smaller holes.  That should further help to complicate the math  ;-)  -John --- On Thu, 3/7/13, Rick Sparber wrote:From: Rick Sparber Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: Drilling a Hexagonal HoleTo: mill_drill@yahoogroups.comDate: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 5:04 AM John, I found the math daunting. For example, set the flat to flat distance at ½” and drill 1/16” holes at each point. Then drill the center ½” hole. You will see that the excess metal to be removed is large. By eye I can pick drill sizes and hole placement to get this excess as small as I like. But doing with a program is tricky. Of course, if you drill multiple small holes, you want to keep a web of around 0.01” between holes so the drill does not break through. The large central hole doesn’t care about the smaller holes both because it is so much larger and because the smaller holes will be equally distributed around the center so no net lateral force is present. Best of luck! Rick

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