Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

Expand Messages
  • Rick Sparber
    Using the jog function to lower a cutter on a CNC mill is rather interesting. You are going an extremely tiny distance with a lot of force. It still boils down
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
    • 0 Attachment

      Using the jog function to lower a cutter on a CNC mill is rather interesting. You are going an extremely tiny distance with a lot of force. It still boils down to not being able to occupy a single space with two objects.

       

      I used to use paper to set my manual mill. Now I use my EEF. Faster and more accurate.

       

      Rick

       

      From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:18 AM
      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

       




      Your dowel pin suggestion is great for the CNC type because of the chance your increment may be larger than your remaining gap.  I'll stick to my piece of paper on the manual mill.  Been using that for years, but I recently acquired my first CNC, and touch off is kind of awkward for me right now.  I grabbed a 0.1875 Dowel pin and tried out your suggestion.  I picked up the surface location easier than before.  I hope to eventually have the more commonly used tools preset.   Thanks for the tip.

      Phil R

       

    • Rick Sparber
      Phil, “All of us are smarter than any one of us.” By sharing information, we all get smarter. Rick From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
      • 0 Attachment

        Phil,

         

        “All of us are smarter than any one of us.” By sharing information, we all get smarter.

         

        Rick

         

        From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
        Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:50 PM
        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

         




        Rick,

        Nice tip.  Definitely worth a try .  It looks like a better method than my 0.003 thick piece of paper between the tool and the part.  It is very easy to make a mistake and overshoot when using incremental jog down toward the part. Especially if you hurry and use an increment that exceeds the distance between your tool tip and the part.  If a person is diligent when using an end mill in a Welden type setscrew holder, the end mill is biased so the setscrew opposes the end mill from pulling out of the holder. Besides preventing damage to the tool this method helps accuracy because the tool cannot get pushed up into the holder .xyy" if it touches the part too much.  Thanks for sharing the tip.

        Phil R

         


        From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
        To: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com; mill_drill@yahoogroups.com; 3_in_1_Lathe_Mill_Drill@yahoogroups.com; smithy-machines@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:11 PM
        Subject: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

         

         

        At a recent visit to Toolcraft, Glendale, Arizona, I talked to a rather talented machinist who shared a nice technique with me. He showed me how he sets the Z axis zero with no risk of a tool crash on a CNC machine.

         

        If you are interested, please see

         

         

        Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us.

         

        For the full index of my articles, see rick.sparber.org.

         

        Rick

         




      • Dan Mauch
        I agree that on many cnc mills quills there is backlash in the Z axis and the pin menthod would not be accurate. On the other hand, my enco knee mill has a
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

          I agree that on many cnc mills quills  there is backlash in the Z axis  and the pin menthod would not be accurate. On the other hand, my enco knee mill has a .020 backlash in the knee however with the 500lbs of weight on the knee there is no backlash to worry about because the weigh keeps all of the backlash out. On my mill-drill I retrofitted the quill with a zero backlash ballscrew so this technique would probably be fine there.

           

           

          Dan Mauch

          www.camtronics-cnc.com

          dmauch@...

          Stepper and servo motors

          Kits, assembled and custom CNC using Gecko products.

           

        • philr_77378
          Rick, True that is. Yahoo groups and other forums are wonderful.  Wish I had stared using them many moons ago. Phil R ________________________________ From:
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Rick,
            True that is. Yahoo groups and other forums are wonderful.  Wish I had stared using them many moons ago.
            Phil R

            From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:58 AM
            Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

             
            Phil,
             
            “All of us are smarter than any one of us.” By sharing information, we all get smarter.
             
            Rick
             
            From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
            Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:50 PM
            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill
             



            Rick,
            Nice tip.  Definitely worth a try .  It looks like a better method than my 0.003 thick piece of paper between the tool and the part.  It is very easy to make a mistake and overshoot when using incremental jog down toward the part. Especially if you hurry and use an increment that exceeds the distance between your tool tip and the part.  If a person is diligent when using an end mill in a Welden type setscrew holder, the end mill is biased so the setscrew opposes the end mill from pulling out of the holder. Besides preventing damage to the tool this method helps accuracy because the tool cannot get pushed up into the holder .xyy" if it touches the part too much.  Thanks for sharing the tip.
            Phil R
             

            From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
            To: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com; mill_drill@yahoogroups.com; 3_in_1_Lathe_Mill_Drill@yahoogroups.com; smithy-machines@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:11 PM
            Subject: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill
             
             
            At a recent visit to Toolcraft, Glendale, Arizona, I talked to a rather talented machinist who shared a nice technique with me. He showed me how he sets the Z axis zero with no risk of a tool crash on a CNC machine.
             
            If you are interested, please see
             
             
            Your comments and questions are welcome. All of us are smarter than any one of us.
             
            For the full index of my articles, see rick.sparber.org.
             
            Rick
             





          • philr_77378
            Rick, I was using the incremental feed in .001 steps when I got close to touch off on paper, just like the manual mill.  Have not overshot it yet, but I
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Rick,
              I was using the incremental feed in .001 steps when I got close to touch off on paper, just like the manual mill.  Have not overshot it yet, but I always knew the possibility was there that I would mistake and select the wrong increment. What is an EEF?   I've seen some different types of z setters and expect to buy one soon.
              Phil R

              From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:22 AM
              Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

               
              Using the jog function to lower a cutter on a CNC mill is rather interesting. You are going an extremely tiny distance with a lot of force. It still boils down to not being able to occupy a single space with two objects.
               
              I used to use paper to set my manual mill. Now I use my EEF. Faster and more accurate.
               
              Rick
               
              From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
              Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:18 AM
              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill
               



              Your dowel pin suggestion is great for the CNC type because of the chance your increment may be larger than your remaining gap.  I'll stick to my piece of paper on the manual mill.  Been using that for years, but I recently acquired my first CNC, and touch off is kind of awkward for me right now.  I grabbed a 0.1875 Dowel pin and tried out your suggestion.  I picked up the surface location easier than before.  I hope to eventually have the more commonly used tools preset.   Thanks for the tip.
              Phil R
               


            • Rick Sparber
              EEF – Electronic Edge Finder. I have one that clips onto the existing end mill and table. Rick From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
              • 0 Attachment

                EEF – Electronic Edge Finder. I have one that clips onto the existing end mill and table.

                 

                Rick

                 

                From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
                Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:42 PM
                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                 




                Rick,

                I was using the incremental feed in .001 steps when I got close to touch off on paper, just like the manual mill.  Have not overshot it yet, but I always knew the possibility was there that I would mistake and select the wrong increment. What is an EEF?   I've seen some different types of z setters and expect to buy one soon.

                Phil R


                From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:22 AM
                Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                 

                 

                Using the jog function to lower a cutter on a CNC mill is rather interesting. You are going an extremely tiny distance with a lot of force. It still boils down to not being able to occupy a single space with two objects.

                 

                I used to use paper to set my manual mill. Now I use my EEF. Faster and more accurate.

                 

                Rick

                 

                From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
                Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:18 AM
                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                 



                Your dowel pin suggestion is great for the CNC type because of the chance your increment may be larger than your remaining gap.  I'll stick to my piece of paper on the manual mill.  Been using that for years, but I recently acquired my first CNC, and touch off is kind of awkward for me right now.  I grabbed a 0.1875 Dowel pin and tried out your suggestion.  I picked up the surface location easier than before.  I hope to eventually have the more commonly used tools preset.   Thanks for the tip.

                Phil R

                 

                 




              • philr_77378
                That may be what I need.  Can you share a link to that, or a picture.  Sounds like an improvement over my starret edge finder. Phil R
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  That may be what I need.  Can you share a link to that, or a picture.  Sounds like an improvement over my starret edge finder.
                  Phil R


                  From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:59 PM
                  Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                   
                  EEF – Electronic Edge Finder. I have one that clips onto the existing end mill and table.
                   
                  Rick
                   
                  From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
                  Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:42 PM
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill
                   



                  Rick,
                  I was using the incremental feed in .001 steps when I got close to touch off on paper, just like the manual mill.  Have not overshot it yet, but I always knew the possibility was there that I would mistake and select the wrong increment. What is an EEF?   I've seen some different types of z setters and expect to buy one soon.
                  Phil R

                  From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:22 AM
                  Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill
                   
                   
                  Using the jog function to lower a cutter on a CNC mill is rather interesting. You are going an extremely tiny distance with a lot of force. It still boils down to not being able to occupy a single space with two objects.
                   
                  I used to use paper to set my manual mill. Now I use my EEF. Faster and more accurate.
                   
                  Rick
                   
                  From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
                  Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:18 AM
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill
                   


                  Your dowel pin suggestion is great for the CNC type because of the chance your increment may be larger than your remaining gap.  I'll stick to my piece of paper on the manual mill.  Been using that for years, but I recently acquired my first CNC, and touch off is kind of awkward for me right now.  I grabbed a 0.1875 Dowel pin and tried out your suggestion.  I picked up the surface location easier than before.  I hope to eventually have the more commonly used tools preset.   Thanks for the tip.
                  Phil R
                   
                   





                • Kurt Laughlin
                  That s sensible, but it depends on two things to work: The work surface must be very smooth and flat, and it cannot be out of parallel with the table. If the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    That’s sensible, but it depends on two things to work:  The work surface must be very smooth and flat, and it cannot be out of parallel with the table.  If the part is rough, the height of the dowel pin can vary by more than the safe increment as it rolls under the cutter.  If it is out of parallel, it can drop or rise as it rolls as well.  In both cases this can give a bad setting.  If the desired accuracy is large compared to the variation, this can usually be ignored, otherwise it’s a killer.

                     

                    KL

                  • Rick Sparber
                    Phil, There are three models. Which one to use depends on the electrical resistance of the spindle bearings. Although designed to be used on the lathe, it
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Phil,

                       

                      There are three models. Which one to use depends on the electrical resistance of the spindle bearings. Although designed to be used on the lathe, it works fine on the mill.

                       

                      If you go to

                       

                      http://rick.sparber.org/ma.htm#6

                       

                      you will see 3 articles just above the heading marked “7. Lathe Technique Return to top.” These are the 3 models. I also have

                       

                      http://rick.sparber.org/ueef.pdf

                       

                      which explains what is being measure. Then there is this article explains how to measure these extremely small resistances

                       

                      http://rick.sparber.org/ueef.pdf

                       

                       

                      Kits will be sold in the near future. The Model 1 beta testing phase is almost over and commercial boards are being used. I just received commercial boards for the Model 1.5 today but have not built it yet. I also got two commercial boards for the Model 2 and built one. So far, it looks good. The plan is to sell kits and also finished units.

                       

                      Rick

                       

                      From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
                      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:50 PM
                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                       




                      That may be what I need.  Can you share a link to that, or a picture.  Sounds like an improvement over my starret edge finder.

                      Phil R

                       


                      From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:59 PM
                      Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                       

                       

                      EEF – Electronic Edge Finder. I have one that clips onto the existing end mill and table.

                       

                      Rick

                       

                      From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
                      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:42 PM
                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                       



                      Rick,

                      I was using the incremental feed in .001 steps when I got close to touch off on paper, just like the manual mill.  Have not overshot it yet, but I always knew the possibility was there that I would mistake and select the wrong increment. What is an EEF?   I've seen some different types of z setters and expect to buy one soon.

                      Phil R


                      From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:22 AM
                      Subject: RE: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                       

                       

                      Using the jog function to lower a cutter on a CNC mill is rather interesting. You are going an extremely tiny distance with a lot of force. It still boils down to not being able to occupy a single space with two objects.

                       

                      I used to use paper to set my manual mill. Now I use my EEF. Faster and more accurate.

                       

                      Rick

                       

                      From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philr_77378@...
                      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:18 AM
                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                       

                       

                      Your dowel pin suggestion is great for the CNC type because of the chance your increment may be larger than your remaining gap.  I'll stick to my piece of paper on the manual mill.  Been using that for years, but I recently acquired my first CNC, and touch off is kind of awkward for me right now.  I grabbed a 0.1875 Dowel pin and tried out your suggestion.  I picked up the surface location easier than before.  I hope to eventually have the more commonly used tools preset.   Thanks for the tip.

                      Phil R

                       

                       



                       




                    • Rick Sparber
                      Kurt, The intent here is to set the Z axis with respect to a reference surface, not the workpiece. So you would have a smooth and flat surface. These
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 14, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Kurt,

                         

                        The intent here is to set the Z axis with respect to a reference surface, not the workpiece. So you would have a smooth and flat surface. These commercial CNC mills are also very precisely trammed so that is not an issue.

                         

                        Rick

                         

                        From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Laughlin
                        Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 5:26 PM
                        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [mill_drill] Re: new article: A Safe and Accurate Way to Set Zero on a Vertical Mill

                         




                        That’s sensible, but it depends on two things to work:  The work surface must be very smooth and flat, and it cannot be out of parallel with the table.  If the part is rough, the height of the dowel pin can vary by more than the safe increment as it rolls under the cutter.  If it is out of parallel, it can drop or rise as it rolls as well.  In both cases this can give a bad setting.  If the desired accuracy is large compared to the variation, this can usually be ignored, otherwise it’s a killer.

                         

                        KL




                      • mrwhiz49
                        Good idea. I ve been using adjustable parallels to snug between the tool and work.
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 23, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Good idea. I've been using adjustable parallels to snug between the tool and work.
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.