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Need some advice

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  • David Van Mill
    Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 19, 2012
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      Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
       
      I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
       
      I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
       
      Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
       
      Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
       
      Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
       
      Thanks
      David / nomous69
    • Druid Noibn
      Hi David,   A few quick questions might be of help here: 1) what do you plan on machining 2) size and type of expected projects and 3) where do you live
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 20, 2012
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        Hi David,
         
        A few quick questions might be of help here: 1) what do you plan on machining 2) size and type of expected projects and 3) where do you live (general area).
         
        Be well,
        DBN  

        --- On Thu, 12/20/12, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:

        From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
        Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
        To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012, 12:23 AM

         
        Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
         
        I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
         
        I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
         
        Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
         
        Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
         
        Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
         
        Thanks
        David / nomous69
      • David Van Mill
        Hi Druid. Answers to your questions,   1) I am not planning on making anything particular but I was asked by my wife before I got my lathe why I needed one.I
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 20, 2012
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          Hi Druid. Answers to your questions,
           
          1) I am not planning on making anything particular but I was asked by my wife before I got my lathe why I needed one.I didn't have anything in mind to make but I find myself using it all the time. It is amazing the things that you can do if you have the tools!!!
           
          2) Mine will be small projects. My neighbor down the street has a full size Bridgeport that I can use if needed. He sometimes comes to my house to use my blasting cabinet.
           
          3) I live on the West side of the Missouri River about 20 miles out of St. Louis (small town on the Mississippi).
           
          Most of my projects will probably come from car related items. I am in several car clubs and always find things that need to be made or fixed or improved on. Have made some tools to make working on the cars easier or faster or better.
           
          I just like to tinker and really like to have the tools needed to get the job done!!!
           
          David / nomous69
           

          From: Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...>
          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:18 AM
          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Need some advice
           
          Hi David,
           
          A few quick questions might be of help here: 1) what do you plan on machining 2) size and type of expected projects and 3) where do you live (general area).
           
          Be well,
          DBN   --- On Thu, 12/20/12, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:

          From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
          Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
          To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012, 12:23 AM

           
          Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
           
          I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
           
          I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
           
          Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
           
          Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
           
          Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
           
          Thanks
          David / nomous69
        • Druid Noibn
            Hi David,   OK good material to work with.   You can pick up a small mill/drill from a host of places, ENCO, Grizzly, and even the miserable cretins at
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 20, 2012
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            Hi David,
             
            OK good material to work with.
             
            You can pick up a small mill/drill from a host of places, ENCO, Grizzly, and even the miserable cretins at HarborFreight.  ENCO tends to have a sale once/twice a year but on the large sized mill/drill, If there is a problem, they will back it up but do so right away.  Grizzly has several sizes and have a good reputation – my system had issues and they offered to replace it, and sent a prepaid Bill of Lading.  The HF folks have their infamous discount coupons – if there is a problem, you must address it right away.  Heads up – be aware that they quote “6-8 weeks” for anything that is no in stock.  If you need parts it might take close to one year.  Ask me how I know (multiple tests <smile>)
             
            The above is noted inly if you are not comfortable with re-working a new system.  If you are, then go for whatever is comfortable.
             
            As to size – I’m biased – some like the X1 size and the X2 is rather popular.  In short order I would deem these a tad too small for me – again, bias.  The smallest I would look at is the X3 size unit and as you have a colleague who has a Bridgeport – all is well.
             
            Also consider that like all things involving our toys or entertainment – the first purchase is only a starting point.  If the tool cost $1,000 you’ll need multiples of that to feed the operation, tools, bits, bobs, new furniture, lights, wiring, coffee cup and what-have-you.  
             
            Also consider local companies, Craigslist (be judicious), eBay, etc… As shipping is always an issue – networking is important, such as this list.  I’m in northern NJ and so the market over here is a tad different from yours.
             
            Ask questions – folks like to help here.
             
            Be well,
            DBN

            --- On Thu, 12/20/12, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:

            From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Need some advice
            To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012, 9:08 AM

             
            Hi Druid. Answers to your questions,
             
            1) I am not planning on making anything particular but I was asked by my wife before I got my lathe why I needed one.I didn't have anything in mind to make but I find myself using it all the time. It is amazing the things that you can do if you have the tools!!!
             
            2) Mine will be small projects. My neighbor down the street has a full size Bridgeport that I can use if needed. He sometimes comes to my house to use my blasting cabinet.
             
            3) I live on the West side of the Missouri River about 20 miles out of St. Louis (small town on the Mississippi).
             
            Most of my projects will probably come from car related items. I am in several car clubs and always find things that need to be made or fixed or improved on. Have made some tools to make working on the cars easier or faster or better.
             
            I just like to tinker and really like to have the tools needed to get the job done!!!
             
            David / nomous69
             

            From: Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...>
            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:18 AM
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Need some advice
             
            Hi David,
             
            A few quick questions might be of help here: 1) what do you plan on machining 2) size and type of expected projects and 3) where do you live (general area).
             
            Be well,
            DBN   --- On Thu, 12/20/12, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:

            From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
            Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
            To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Thursday, December 20, 2012, 12:23 AM

             
            Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
             
            I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
             
            I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
             
            Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
             
            Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
             
            Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
             
            Thanks
            David / nomous69
          • dornpeterson
            I m not acquainted with the ARFA. A picture I found on the net looks like a pretty typical RF-30 class round column mill/drill. When some people are spending
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 20, 2012
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              I'm not acquainted with the ARFA. A picture I found on the net looks like a pretty typical RF-30 class round column mill/drill. When some people are spending YOUR money they always recommend a Bridgeport. But if this is for hobby use it is really surprising how much you can get done on a mill/drill either round or square column. For example (if I recall correctly) all of the stuff Rick Sparber does ( http://rick.sparber.org/ma.htm ) is on a round column mill.

              If you are just starting out I think you will find lots of things to do (and learn) on a round column mill, especially if you can borrow time on a Bridgeport from time to time.

              Dorn

              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
              >  
              > I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
              >  
              > I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
              >  
              > Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
              >  
              > Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
              >  
              > Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
              >  
              > Thanks
              > David / nomous69
              >
            • Jim Hendricks
              I d agree with DNB particularly the point of the X3. I m in the UK and have recently tried out an SX2 and it suffered from the infamous torque spring drop
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 20, 2012
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                I'd agree with DNB particularly the point of the X3.
                 
                I'm in the UK and have recently tried out an SX2 and it suffered from the infamous torque spring drop problem and subsequently having had it replaced by the SX3, I can now say the SX2 was actually a bit too small for me as well.
                 
                The manual that came with it in Chinglese...was not worth setting fire to...I doubt if it would burn! I downloaded the equivalent Grizzly manual from the USA (G0619) and it's fantastic! So I would go for one of these without doubt...
                 
                The only problem is that you will certainly have to dismantle it to get it upstairs and even then you will need a few big blokes just for the base/dovetail support. You would need to dismantle it anyway to clean all the shipping grease off.
                 
                It weighs 165kg (365lbs in old money)...so it's only just a "bench" mill and I would advise you use the stand anyway. Your floor should stand that sort of weight if you put some decent plywood beween the joists to spread the load....but check first!
                 
                I think this is the smallest mill that is useable for all but small model parts frankly.
                 
                Jim
              • Rick Sparber
                Dorn, Right you are ;-) Rick
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 20, 2012
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                  Dorn,

                  Right you are ;-)

                  Rick

                  On Dec 20, 2012, at 11:12 AM, "dornpeterson" <petersdw@...> wrote:

                  > I'm not acquainted with the ARFA. A picture I found on the net looks like a pretty typical RF-30 class round column mill/drill. When some people are spending YOUR money they always recommend a Bridgeport. But if this is for hobby use it is really surprising how much you can get done on a mill/drill either round or square column. For example (if I recall correctly) all of the stuff Rick Sparber does ( http://rick.sparber.org/ma.htm ) is on a round column mill.
                  >
                  > If you are just starting out I think you will find lots of things to do (and learn) on a round column mill, especially if you can borrow time on a Bridgeport from time to time.
                  >
                  > Dorn
                  >
                  > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
                  >>
                  >> I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
                  >>
                  >> I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
                  >>
                  >> Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
                  >>
                  >> Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
                  >>
                  >> Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
                  >>
                  >> Thanks
                  >> David / nomous69
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Keith Mifflin
                  If I were you I d buy the largest bench mill or as we sometimes call them mill/drill you can afford to buy. I think that after a short time you would find the
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 20, 2012
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                    If I were you I’d buy the largest bench mill or as we sometimes call them mill/drill you can afford to buy.  I think that after a short time you would find the bed length of this mill crowding you in and would be looking for one that is at least 29”-32” inches long.  Some good candidates are:

                     

                    Rong-Fu 30 or up

                    Grizzly

                    Jet

                    Enco

                    Harbor Freight if include in your plan to take it apart re-grease it and recalibrate everything

                     

                    I personally have a Enco made with by Rong-Fu30  and badged that way.  It has both power X axis and Y axis (don’t use the Y axis much but always us the power X axis).  I did own the Grizzly G1007 with the power feed but did a little trade to get the Enco with power Y and a bunch of tooling.  I would not by smaller than the class that the Grizzly G1006 is as you will probably regret the lack of power, rigidness and overall size of the mill.  Don’t worry about buying a stand if you rather not these can be set up an a good stout work bench or make a stand to suit yourself out of metal or wood.

                     

                    Like mentioned before the purchase and cost of the mill is only the beginning of the journey, it’s the tooling that will cost you.  If you can find a good used machine often you can get the tooling thrown in for free or very reasonably included with the purchase.

                     

                    My 2 cents worth

                     

                    Keith

                     

                  • David Van Mill
                    Thanks to all that responded to my request for advice.   After reading all the feedback I decided not to look at the ARFA brand bench mill. The owner wanted
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 25, 2012
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                      Thanks to all that responded to my request for advice.
                       
                      After reading all the feedback I decided not to look at the ARFA brand bench mill. The owner wanted $1,200 for it and it didn't include much as he was getting a Bridgeport and would keep most accessories for himself. Besides, I'm not the best negotiator and probably wouldn't have been able to get the price down much. I will keep looking at the local Craig's List as I have gotten a few nice items from there including an Atlas horizontal milling machine Model MFB, Atlas Shaper Model 7B, an Industrial rated Jet brand belt sander, and my last purchase was a 4 x 6 vertical / horizontal band-saw made here in St. Louis by the special products division of Emerson Electric Company. It probably is like the one that was sent overseas to be cloned and made as cheap as possible. It is 30+ years old and is in great condition. 
                       
                      I I did some looking at the Rung Fu, Enco, and Grizzly models offered by Enco & Grizzly and after looking at pricing, I may just buy a new one. I will not buy one from HF. I will want one that can be upgraded, but initially will probably purchase only the mill. I will never be called a machinist and will probably never make any money using this equipment. It is just for fun with me and a hobby. I think the larger table length of 28+ inches will be better. I do notice that the table on my horizontal mill is a little short at times at 4.5 X 18 inches. I think I should be able to get more mill than I will ever need for around $1,600 not including freight and tax. I probably have 200+ end mills and assorted micrometers and dial gages. I am sure I will need a clamping set and other assorted items but don't think these will be an issue.
                       
                      I would be happy to here any comments on machines that you feel would be of interest if it was you looking for a mill and falling into this general price range. I would rather have more machine than I need than to wish I had something else but remember I will never be that good at any of this.
                       
                      One last thing. I used to have a KBC tool located close to me here in St. Louis. They closed their doors in mid December. I hear the Enco name used a lot on these various forums as a supplier. I have also heard McMaster Carr. I would be interested in any other good suppliers of tools & parts & accessories for our hobby that are used by you.
                       
                      Thanks,
                      David / nomous69
                       
                       
                       

                      From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
                      To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:23 PM
                      Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                       
                      Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
                       
                      I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
                       
                      I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
                       
                      Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
                       
                      Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
                       
                      Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
                       
                      Thanks
                      David / nomous69
                    • Carl Hollopeter
                      David, Try here for tools, been very happy with them: http://stores.ebay.com/Discount-Machine-Shop/_i.html?_fsub=-33&_sc=1&_sop=2 Carl H From: David Van Mill
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 25, 2012
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                        David,
                           Try here for tools, been very happy with them:
                         
                        Carl H
                         
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 11:26 AM
                        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                         
                         

                        Thanks to all that responded to my request for advice.
                         
                        After reading all the feedback I decided not to look at the ARFA brand bench mill. The owner wanted $1,200 for it and it didn't include much as he was getting a Bridgeport and would keep most accessories for himself. Besides, I'm not the best negotiator and probably wouldn't have been able to get the price down much. I will keep looking at the local Craig's List as I have gotten a few nice items from there including an Atlas horizontal milling machine Model MFB, Atlas Shaper Model 7B, an Industrial rated Jet brand belt sander, and my last purchase was a 4 x 6 vertical / horizontal band-saw made here in St. Louis by the special products division of Emerson Electric Company. It probably is like the one that was sent overseas to be cloned and made as cheap as possible. It is 30+ years old and is in great condition.
                         
                        I I did some looking at the Rung Fu, Enco, and Grizzly models offered by Enco & Grizzly and after looking at pricing, I may just buy a new one. I will not buy one from HF. I will want one that can be upgraded, but initially will probably purchase only the mill. I will never be called a machinist and will probably never make any money using this equipment. It is just for fun with me and a hobby. I think the larger table length of 28+ inches will be better. I do notice that the table on my horizontal mill is a little short at times at 4.5 X 18 inches. I think I should be able to get more mill than I will ever need for around $1,600 not including freight and tax. I probably have 200+ end mills and assorted micrometers and dial gages. I am sure I will need a clamping set and other assorted items but don't think these will be an issue.
                         
                        I would be happy to here any comments on machines that you feel would be of interest if it was you looking for a mill and falling into this general price range. I would rather have more machine than I need than to wish I had something else but remember I will never be that good at any of this.
                         
                        One last thing. I used to have a KBC tool located close to me here in St. Louis. They closed their doors in mid December. I hear the Enco name used a lot on these various forums as a supplier. I have also heard McMaster Carr. I would be interested in any other good suppliers of tools & parts & accessories for our hobby that are used by you.
                         
                        Thanks,
                        David / nomous69
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
                        To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:23 PM
                        Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                         
                        Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
                         
                        I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
                         
                        I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
                         
                        Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
                         
                        Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
                         
                        Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
                         
                        Thanks
                        David / nomous69
                      • Druid Noibn
                        Hi David,   It seems that you have a clear focus now - Great.   If the square column type of mill/drill looks advantageous to you - ENCO has a sale on
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 25, 2012
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                          Hi David,
                           
                          It seems that you have a clear focus now - Great.
                           
                          If the square column type of mill/drill looks advantageous to you - ENCO has a sale on their's once/twice a year with free shipping.
                           
                          Keep in mind that wile you have a colleague with a Bridgeport, you might see a good used one for the same price as a new "benchtop" unit if room is not a problem.  In some cases, the real issue is moving the darn things - our toys can get a bit on the heavy side.
                           
                          Yes, there are many good suppliers and a lot more average ones.  McMaster Carr is well-known for service and having most everything - not the cheapest, but in most cases a fair trade for the service. I recall that one doesn't get the shipping charges up-front (annoying) but I don't recall any gouging; and I have to pay sales tax <grin>. 
                           
                          Many others sell the same or similar items manufactured in China - the problem is that there are many, many, many manufacturers in China producing the same thing.  If you buy enough of anything, the folks would be happy to put your name & color on it.  So the problem is if you are getting a well-made item or one of the lesser quality ones. 
                           
                          China can supply anything from A++ to scrap metal quality goods - finding them isn't always easy as the brands are difficult to know.  For example, Leeson, a top name in electric motors, have some of their products manufactured in China.  
                           
                          ENCO is well-know due to the pricing, and coupons for free shipping etc.  They have good stuff and cheaper stuff.  Only concern, they pack heavy items the same way they pack light ones.  Too often, I have to send back heavy items due to damage in shipment (poor packing!).  Just annoying.
                           
                          Consider your approach - e.g., but a cheap item to get experience and then buy a good one when you know what ypu are doing.  The alternate is but a good item and learn to use it properly and it will likely outlast the above.
                           
                          I find pleasure in re-building and sourcing goods from recyclers (scrap metal places) although my wife has other terms for this addiction.  I also find that some of the older tools need to be retired, that the newer "lesser quality" goods are actually better.  
                           
                          It's a learning process and the journey is a bit of fun.
                           
                          Let all know what you are up to and your discoveries - this is how we help each other.
                           
                          Kind regards,
                          DBN


                          --- On Tue, 12/25/12, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:

                          From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                          To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                          Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2012, 12:26 PM

                           
                          Thanks to all that responded to my request for advice.
                           
                          After reading all the feedback I decided not to look at the ARFA brand bench mill. The owner wanted $1,200 for it and it didn't include much as he was getting a Bridgeport and would keep most accessories for himself. Besides, I'm not the best negotiator and probably wouldn't have been able to get the price down much. I will keep looking at the local Craig's List as I have gotten a few nice items from there including an Atlas horizontal milling machine Model MFB, Atlas Shaper Model 7B, an Industrial rated Jet brand belt sander, and my last purchase was a 4 x 6 vertical / horizontal band-saw made here in St. Louis by the special products division of Emerson Electric Company. It probably is like the one that was sent overseas to be cloned and made as cheap as possible. It is 30+ years old and is in great condition. 
                           
                          I I did some looking at the Rung Fu, Enco, and Grizzly models offered by Enco & Grizzly and after looking at pricing, I may just buy a new one. I will not buy one from HF. I will want one that can be upgraded, but initially will probably purchase only the mill. I will never be called a machinist and will probably never make any money using this equipment. It is just for fun with me and a hobby. I think the larger table length of 28+ inches will be better. I do notice that the table on my horizontal mill is a little short at times at 4.5 X 18 inches. I think I should be able to get more mill than I will ever need for around $1,600 not including freight and tax. I probably have 200+ end mills and assorted micrometers and dial gages. I am sure I will need a clamping set and other assorted items but don't think these will be an issue.
                           
                          I would be happy to here any comments on machines that you feel would be of interest if it was you looking for a mill and falling into this general price range. I would rather have more machine than I need than to wish I had something else but remember I will never be that good at any of this.
                           
                          One last thing. I used to have a KBC tool located close to me here in St. Louis. They closed their doors in mid December. I hear the Enco name used a lot on these various forums as a supplier. I have also heard McMaster Carr. I would be interested in any other good suppliers of tools & parts & accessories for our hobby that are used by you.
                           
                          Thanks,
                          David / nomous69
                           
                           
                           

                          From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
                          To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:23 PM
                          Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                           
                          Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
                           
                          I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
                           
                          I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
                           
                          Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
                           
                          Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
                           
                          Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
                           
                          Thanks
                          David / nomous69
                        • Ramdog
                          You may want to consider the Rong Fu for the money. I see more and more all the time on the internet where people are getting them and modifying them. A few of
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 25, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            You may want to consider the Rong Fu for the money. I see more and more all the time on the internet where people are getting them and modifying them. A few of the threads i have found tells about changing them over to CNC. From what I have read from other people, they seem to be a fairly good mill for an import. But before you make any decision, try to check each brand out first hand. If you buy used, you want to hear it run, and mainly, you want to look to see if the ways are wore to the point that where they are scraped (if they were scraped) is how much of the scraping is worn off. You also want to check and see how much backlash there is. And thirdly, you want to do a web search as to part availability.

                            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi David,
                            >  
                            > It seems that you have a clear focus now - Great.
                            >  
                            > If the square column type of mill/drill looks advantageous to you - ENCO has a sale on their's once/twice a year with free shipping.
                            >  
                            > Keep in mind that wile you have a colleague with a Bridgeport, you might see a good used one for the same price as a new "benchtop" unit if room is not a problem.  In some cases, the real issue is moving the darn things - our toys can get a bit on the heavy side.
                            >  
                            > Yes, there are many good suppliers and a lot more average ones.  McMaster Carr is well-known for service and having most everything - not the cheapest, but in most cases a fair trade for the service. I recall that one doesn't get the shipping charges up-front (annoying) but I don't recall any gouging; and I have to pay sales tax <grin>. 
                            >  
                            > Many others sell the same or similar items manufactured in China - the problem is that there are many, many, many manufacturers in China producing the same thing.  If you buy enough of anything, the folks would be happy to put your name & color on it.  So the problem is if you are getting a well-made item or one of the lesser quality ones. 
                            >  
                            > China can supply anything from A++ to scrap metal quality goods - finding them isn't always easy as the brands are difficult to know.  For example, Leeson, a top name in electric motors, have some of their products manufactured in China.  
                            >  
                            > ENCO is well-know due to the pricing, and coupons for free shipping etc.  They have good stuff and cheaper stuff.  Only concern, they pack heavy items the same way they pack light ones.  Too often, I have to send back heavy items due to damage in shipment (poor packing!).  Just annoying.
                            >  
                            > Consider your approach - e.g., but a cheap item to get experience and then buy a good one when you know what ypu are doing.  The alternate is but a good item and learn to use it properly and it will likely outlast the above.
                            >  
                            > I find pleasure in re-building and sourcing goods from recyclers (scrap metal places) although my wife has other terms for this addiction.  I also find that some of the older tools need to be retired, that the newer "lesser quality" goods are actually better.  
                            >  
                            > It's a learning process and the journey is a bit of fun.
                            >  
                            > Let all know what you are up to and your discoveries - this is how we help each other.
                            >  
                            > Kind regards,
                            > DBN
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Tue, 12/25/12, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                            > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2012, 12:26 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks to all that responded to my request for advice.
                            >  
                            > After reading all the feedback I decided not to look at the ARFA brand bench mill. The owner wanted $1,200 for it and it didn't include much as he was getting a Bridgeport and would keep most accessories for himself. Besides, I'm not the best negotiator and probably wouldn't have been able to get the price down much. I will keep looking at the local Craig's List as I have gotten a few nice items from there including an Atlas horizontal milling machine Model MFB, Atlas Shaper Model 7B, an Industrial rated Jet brand belt sander, and my last purchase was a 4 x 6 vertical / horizontal band-saw made here in St. Louis by the special products division of Emerson Electric Company. It probably is like the one that was sent overseas to be cloned and made as cheap as possible. It is 30+ years old and is in great condition. 
                            >  
                            > I I did some looking at the Rung Fu, Enco, and Grizzly models offered by Enco & Grizzly and after looking at pricing, I may just buy a new one. I will not buy one from HF. I will want one that can be upgraded, but initially will probably purchase only the mill. I will never be called a machinist and will probably never make any money using this equipment. It is just for fun with me and a hobby. I think the larger table length of 28+ inches will be better. I do notice that the table on my horizontal mill is a little short at times at 4.5 X 18 inches. I think I should be able to get more mill than I will ever need for around $1,600 not including freight and tax. I probably have 200+ end mills and assorted micrometers and dial gages. I am sure I will need a clamping set and other assorted items but don't think these will be an issue.
                            >  
                            > I would be happy to here any comments on machines that you feel would be of interest if it was you looking for a mill and falling into this general price range. I would rather have more machine than I need than to wish I had something else but remember I will never be that good at any of this.
                            >  
                            > One last thing. I used to have a KBC tool located close to me here in St. Louis. They closed their doors in mid December. I hear the Enco name used a lot on these various forums as a supplier. I have also heard McMaster Carr. I would be interested in any other good suppliers of tools & parts & accessories for our hobby that are used by you.
                            >  
                            > Thanks,
                            > David / nomous69
                            >  
                            >  
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
                            > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:23 PM
                            > Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            > Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
                            >  
                            > I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
                            >  
                            > I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
                            >  
                            > Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
                            >  
                            > Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
                            >  
                            > Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
                            >  
                            > Thanks
                            > David / nomous69
                            >
                          • vakil01@gmail.com
                            I purchased a genuine Rong Fu 45 (Square Column) mill about six years ago and have been very happy. The sole negative on this mill is it is more expensive
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 26, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I purchased a genuine Rong Fu 45 (Square Column) mill about six years ago and have been very happy. The sole negative on this mill is it is more expensive than the clones. This can largely be offset by waiting for a sale and free shipping (recommend Enco)

                              The positives are several - mainly quality and for me, a novice machinist, bypassing the unfamiliar procedures of tuning a piece of equipment that is 'almost' right and running the risk of messing something up permanently. Other positives are Z axis height which allows for long accessories such as boring heads and rotary tables, and the gear head which is much faster than belt changes.

                              The deal-killer positive however was the 1 hp, 3 phase motor. I only have 110V in my shop so this greatly limited my choices. With the 3 phase I purchased a VFD for about $100 that converts 110V single phase to three phase, runs on a 20 amp circuit, and gives me a completely variable speed.

                              My old bench mill had a 1/2 hp motor and it took forever to mill even the smallest parts. Milling with the RF is a genuine pleasure as I do more work in steel than aluminum.

                              Another $.02 for your change box :)
                            • Druid Noibn
                              Hi,   According to all the write-up - you got a good machine. It should be as the clones are based on the Rong-Fu.   For small 3-phase motors, yes we can
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 26, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi,
                                 
                                According to all the write-up - you got a good machine. It should be as the "clones" are based on the Rong-Fu.
                                 
                                For small 3-phase motors, yes we can get a VFD that operates off of 110VAC (I do have one of those). For slightly larger motors we need to go to 220VAC (I have one of those also) either 1 PH or 3 PH. Note that some 3-phase input VFDs will allow 1-hpase input with a de-rated specification; but not all. As "they" say, read the manual <smile>.
                                 
                                My '45 is from Grizzly - but I changed the metric-sized 1-phase 220VAC motor to a US 3-phase with an VFD. Why..? No other claim other than I wanted to do it.
                                 
                                Using a US motor meant machining an adaptor flange, and a new shaft coupling.  Heck, we do have a machine shop don’t we <smile>.  It all works well.
                                 
                                Good currency - keep it flowing,
                                DBN

                                --- On Wed, 12/26/12, vakil01@... <vakil01@...> wrote:

                                From: vakil01@... <vakil01@...>
                                Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 11:46 AM

                                 


                                I purchased a genuine Rong Fu 45 (Square Column) mill about six years ago and have been very happy. The sole negative on this mill is it is more expensive than the clones. This can largely be offset by waiting for a sale and free shipping (recommend Enco)

                                The positives are several - mainly quality and for me, a novice machinist, bypassing the unfamiliar procedures of tuning a piece of equipment that is 'almost' right and running the risk of messing something up permanently. Other positives are Z axis height which allows for long accessories such as boring heads and rotary tables, and the gear head which is much faster than belt changes.

                                The deal-killer positive however was the 1 hp, 3 phase motor. I only have 110V in my shop so this greatly limited my choices. With the 3 phase I purchased a VFD for about $100 that converts 110V single phase to three phase, runs on a 20 amp circuit, and gives me a completely variable speed.

                                My old bench mill had a 1/2 hp motor and it took forever to mill even the smallest parts. Milling with the RF is a genuine pleasure as I do more work in steel than aluminum.

                                Another $.02 for your change box :)

                              • Steve
                                Hi David, It sounds like you ve got some good old iron in the Atlas machines. If you are interested in old iron, you might want to see if you can find either
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 26, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi David,

                                  It sounds like you've got some good old iron in the Atlas machines. If you are interested in old iron, you might want to see if you can find either a Rockwell or Clausing mill. They are small knee mills - like a small Bridgeport. They are excellent home shop machines. They're not easy to find but do show up on ebay and CL from time to time.

                                  Good luck!

                                  Steve

                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, David Van Mill <nomous69@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks to all that responded to my request for advice.
                                  >  
                                  > After reading all the feedback I decided not to look at the ARFA brand bench mill. The owner wanted $1,200 for it and it didn't include much as he was getting a Bridgeport and would keep most accessories for himself. Besides, I'm not the best negotiator and probably wouldn't have been able to get the price down much. I will keep looking at the local Craig's List as I have gotten a few nice items from there including an Atlas horizontal milling machine Model MFB, Atlas Shaper Model 7B, an Industrial rated Jet brand belt sander, and my last purchase was a 4 x 6 vertical / horizontal band-saw made here in St. Louis by the special products division of Emerson Electric Company. It probably is like the one that was sent overseas to be cloned and made as cheap as possible. It is 30+ years old and is in great condition. 
                                  >  
                                  > I I did some looking at the Rung Fu, Enco, and Grizzly models offered by Enco & Grizzly and after looking at pricing, I may just buy a new one. I will not buy one from HF. I will want one that can be upgraded, but initially will probably purchase only the mill. I will never be called a machinist and will probably never make any money using this equipment. It is just for fun with me and a hobby. I think the larger table length of 28+ inches will be better. I do notice that the table on my horizontal mill is a little short at times at 4.5 X 18 inches. I think I should be able to get more mill than I will ever need for around $1,600 not including freight and tax. I probably have 200+ end mills and assorted micrometers and dial gages. I am sure I will need a clamping set and other assorted items but don't think these will be an issue.
                                  >  
                                  > I would be happy to here any comments on machines that you feel would be of interest if it was you looking for a mill and falling into this general price range. I would rather have more machine than I need than to wish I had something else but remember I will never be that good at any of this.
                                  >  
                                  > One last thing. I used to have a KBC tool located close to me here in St. Louis. They closed their doors in mid December. I hear the Enco name used a lot on these various forums as a supplier. I have also heard McMaster Carr. I would be interested in any other good suppliers of tools & parts & accessories for our hobby that are used by you.
                                  >  
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > David / nomous69
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  > From: David Van Mill <nomous69@...>
                                  > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:23 PM
                                  > Subject: [mill_drill] Need some advice
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Hello, I am new to this group. Thanks for letting me in. I am also in the lathe group, shaper and horizontal mill, and 4x6 bandsaw groups. I posted the following question in those groups and was told the real information on small mills was here. I have more good tools than I have good information or skills on using them. I hope to change that over time.
                                  >
                                  > I am looking at adding a small milling machine to my assortment of things that I don't know much about. I have several tools that fall into this group.
                                  >
                                  > I am going to look at an ARFA brand bench mill. I don't have the model number but the owner says it was the best of the bench top models that they offered. It is supposed to be in good condition but isn't that what everyone says when they are trying to sell something. Owner says weight is 600+ lbs. It has 12 speeds, an R8 spindle, 110 volt, and 6x14 table movement.
                                  >
                                  > Several in the other groups said to wait and buy a full size Bridgeport but I really don't need anything that big. Besides my shop is located on the second story over my garage. I am sure the floor won't stand a 2500-3500lb weight much less trying to get it into position. Not having much in the way if skills, I think a small mill will be fine for now.
                                  >
                                  > Can anyone give me some input as to the overall quality of this brand. Is there anything special I should look for. The picture looks nice!!
                                  >
                                  > Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  > David / nomous69
                                  >
                                • Joe Doherty
                                  DBN, I bought a Rong Fu 45 this last spring from Industryrecycles.com They were careful to point out the damage and when it arrived it was as they described
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 26, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    DBN,

                                    I bought a Rong Fu 45 this last spring from Industryrecycles.com  They were careful to point out the damage and when it arrived it was as they described it.

                                    I bid $1500 and they too accepted the offer.  Shipping was $250 or so.  The electrical box is cracked, a kip lever on the quill lock was broken and the motor fan shroud is gone.  

                                    I have been using it without the fan guard but would prefer to have a motor with a fan guard and substituting a three phase motor with a VFD would be a good way to get a fan guard and repair the broken electrical box ,get the full range of possible speeds all at the same time.  The motor is currently single phase single speed 220 volt.  I can feed a VFD either single phase or three phase but Single phase 220 is more convenient.

                                    How does one find a motor to fit?  I see that you made an adapter ring.  

                                    Would you be willing to specify a motor, VFD and make an adapter ring for my RF45?

                                    I would like to be able to use the speeds up to 3000 rpm that are available with the 2 speed motor option on a new RF45. 

                                    I want to be able to make some mill cuts in wood.   3000 would be better for this than the current top speed of 1500rpm.

                                    Thanks,

                                    Joe in New Orleans






                                    On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:05 AM, Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Hi,
                                     
                                    According to all the write-up - you got a good machine. It should be as the "clones" are based on the Rong-Fu.
                                     
                                    For small 3-phase motors, yes we can get a VFD that operates off of 110VAC (I do have one of those). For slightly larger motors we need to go to 220VAC (I have one of those also) either 1 PH or 3 PH. Note that some 3-phase input VFDs will allow 1-hpase input with a de-rated specification; but not all. As "they" say, read the manual <smile>.
                                     
                                    My '45 is from Grizzly - but I changed the metric-sized 1-phase 220VAC motor to a US 3-phase with an VFD. Why..? No other claim other than I wanted to do it.
                                     
                                    Using a US motor meant machining an adaptor flange, and a new shaft coupling.  Heck, we do have a machine shop don’t we <smile>.  It all works well.
                                     
                                    Good currency - keep it flowing,
                                    DBN

                                    --- On Wed, 12/26/12, vakil01@... <vakil01@...> wrote:

                                    From: vakil01@... <vakil01@...>
                                    Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                    To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 11:46 AM

                                     


                                    I purchased a genuine Rong Fu 45 (Square Column) mill about six years ago and have been very happy. The sole negative on this mill is it is more expensive than the clones. This can largely be offset by waiting for a sale and free shipping (recommend Enco)

                                    The positives are several - mainly quality and for me, a novice machinist, bypassing the unfamiliar procedures of tuning a piece of equipment that is 'almost' right and running the risk of messing something up permanently. Other positives are Z axis height which allows for long accessories such as boring heads and rotary tables, and the gear head which is much faster than belt changes.

                                    The deal-killer positive however was the 1 hp, 3 phase motor. I only have 110V in my shop so this greatly limited my choices. With the 3 phase I purchased a VFD for about $100 that converts 110V single phase to three phase, runs on a 20 amp circuit, and gives me a completely variable speed.

                                    My old bench mill had a 1/2 hp motor and it took forever to mill even the smallest parts. Milling with the RF is a genuine pleasure as I do more work in steel than aluminum.

                                    Another $.02 for your change box :)


                                  • leasingham_connelly
                                    You should be aware that if you change the motor from single to three phase the spindle speeds are unlikely to match at the base frequencey of the supply. If I
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 27, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      You should be aware that if you change the motor from single to three phase the spindle speeds are unlikely to match at the base frequencey of the supply. If I use my mill with the pulleys set up for top speed and with the VFD set to 100Hz then in theory the spindle will be doing 9500 RPM. Maybe I should have gone with more poles on the 3 phase motor. I would suggest you check the RPM of the installed motor before you get a replacement and try to match it with your 3 phase motor.

                                      Martin

                                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Joe Doherty <dohertyj@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > DBN,
                                      >
                                      > I bought a Rong Fu 45 this last spring from Industryrecycles.com They were careful to point out the damage and when it arrived it was as they described it.
                                      >
                                      > I bid $1500 and they too accepted the offer. Shipping was $250 or so. The electrical box is cracked, a kip lever on the quill lock was broken and the motor fan shroud is gone.
                                      >
                                      > I have been using it without the fan guard but would prefer to have a motor with a fan guard and substituting a three phase motor with a VFD would be a good way to get a fan guard and repair the broken electrical box ,get the full range of possible speeds all at the same time. The motor is currently single phase single speed 220 volt. I can feed a VFD either single phase or three phase but Single phase 220 is more convenient.
                                      >
                                      > How does one find a motor to fit? I see that you made an adapter ring.
                                      >
                                      > Would you be willing to specify a motor, VFD and make an adapter ring for my RF45?
                                      >
                                      > I would like to be able to use the speeds up to 3000 rpm that are available with the 2 speed motor option on a new RF45.
                                      >
                                      > I want to be able to make some mill cuts in wood. 3000 would be better for this than the current top speed of 1500rpm.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks,
                                      >
                                      > Joe in New Orleans
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:05 AM, Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi,
                                      > >
                                      > > According to all the write-up - you got a good machine. It should be as the "clones" are based on the Rong-Fu.
                                      > >
                                      > > For small 3-phase motors, yes we can get a VFD that operates off of 110VAC (I do have one of those). For slightly larger motors we need to go to 220VAC (I have one of those also) either 1 PH or 3 PH. Note that some 3-phase input VFDs will allow 1-hpase input with a de-rated specification; but not all. As "they" say, read the manual <smile>.
                                      > >
                                      > > My '45 is from Grizzly - but I changed the metric-sized 1-phase 220VAC motor to a US 3-phase with an VFD. Why..? No other claim other than I wanted to do it.
                                      > >
                                      > > Using a US motor meant machining an adaptor flange, and a new shaft coupling. Heck, we do have a machine shop don't we <smile>. It all works well.
                                      > >
                                      > > Good currency - keep it flowing,
                                      > > DBN
                                      > >
                                      > > --- On Wed, 12/26/12, vakil01@... <vakil01@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > From: vakil01@... <vakil01@...>
                                      > > Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                      > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 11:46 AM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I purchased a genuine Rong Fu 45 (Square Column) mill about six years ago and have been very happy. The sole negative on this mill is it is more expensive than the clones. This can largely be offset by waiting for a sale and free shipping (recommend Enco)
                                      > >
                                      > > The positives are several - mainly quality and for me, a novice machinist, bypassing the unfamiliar procedures of tuning a piece of equipment that is 'almost' right and running the risk of messing something up permanently. Other positives are Z axis height which allows for long accessories such as boring heads and rotary tables, and the gear head which is much faster than belt changes.
                                      > >
                                      > > The deal-killer positive however was the 1 hp, 3 phase motor. I only have 110V in my shop so this greatly limited my choices. With the 3 phase I purchased a VFD for about $100 that converts 110V single phase to three phase, runs on a 20 amp circuit, and gives me a completely variable speed.
                                      > >
                                      > > My old bench mill had a 1/2 hp motor and it took forever to mill even the smallest parts. Milling with the RF is a genuine pleasure as I do more work in steel than aluminum.
                                      > >
                                      > > Another $.02 for your change box :)
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Druid Noibn
                                      Hi Martin,   Point well-taken.    My bias is that the final rpm may need to be looked at, i.e., look at the rpm of the motor and also if using a VFD, look
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Dec 27, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi Martin,
                                         
                                        Point well-taken. 
                                         
                                        My bias is that the final rpm may need to be looked at, i.e., look at the rpm of the motor and also if using a VFD, look at what frequency you are runing at.  Some VFDs are more flexible than others in this regard.  Some folks run the VFD driven units over speed for the smaller end mills.  Of course, adding a rpm readout to the spindle itself is probably a good call - they are really cheap today.
                                         
                                        Final point - how crtical is the rpm for what we traditionally do?  Is "Low, Medium & High" good enough - whatever the designations mean?  Just a thought and more rhetorical than not.
                                         
                                        Kind regards,
                                        DBN


                                        --- On Thu, 12/27/12, leasingham_connelly <martin@...> wrote:

                                        From: leasingham_connelly <martin@...>
                                        Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 3:26 PM

                                         
                                        You should be aware that if you change the motor from single to three phase the spindle speeds are unlikely to match at the base frequencey of the supply. If I use my mill with the pulleys set up for top speed and with the VFD set to 100Hz then in theory the spindle will be doing 9500 RPM. Maybe I should have gone with more poles on the 3 phase motor. I would suggest you check the RPM of the installed motor before you get a replacement and try to match it with your 3 phase motor.

                                        Martin

                                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Joe Doherty <dohertyj@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > DBN,
                                        >
                                        > I bought a Rong Fu 45 this last spring from Industryrecycles.com They were careful to point out the damage and when it arrived it was as they described it.
                                        >
                                        > I bid $1500 and they too accepted the offer. Shipping was $250 or so. The electrical box is cracked, a kip lever on the quill lock was broken and the motor fan shroud is gone.
                                        >
                                        > I have been using it without the fan guard but would prefer to have a motor with a fan guard and substituting a three phase motor with a VFD would be a good way to get a fan guard and repair the broken electrical box ,get the full range of possible speeds all at the same time. The motor is currently single phase single speed 220 volt. I can feed a VFD either single phase or three phase but Single phase 220 is more convenient.
                                        >
                                        > How does one find a motor to fit? I see that you made an adapter ring.
                                        >
                                        > Would you be willing to specify a motor, VFD and make an adapter ring for my RF45?
                                        >
                                        > I would like to be able to use the speeds up to 3000 rpm that are available with the 2 speed motor option on a new RF45.
                                        >
                                        > I want to be able to make some mill cuts in wood. 3000 would be better for this than the current top speed of 1500rpm.
                                        >
                                        > Thanks,
                                        >
                                        > Joe in New Orleans
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:05 AM, Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi,
                                        > >
                                        > > According to all the write-up - you got a good machine. It should be as the "clones" are based on the Rong-Fu.
                                        > >
                                        > > For small 3-phase motors, yes we can get a VFD that operates off of 110VAC (I do have one of those). For slightly larger motors we need to go to 220VAC (I have one of those also) either 1 PH or 3 PH. Note that some 3-phase input VFDs will allow 1-hpase input with a de-rated specification; but not all. As "they" say, read the manual <smile>.
                                        > >
                                        > > My '45 is from Grizzly - but I changed the metric-sized 1-phase 220VAC motor to a US 3-phase with an VFD. Why..? No other claim other than I wanted to do it.
                                        > >
                                        > > Using a US motor meant machining an adaptor flange, and a new shaft coupling. Heck, we do have a machine shop don't we <smile>. It all works well.
                                        > >
                                        > > Good currency - keep it flowing,
                                        > > DBN
                                        > >
                                        > > --- On Wed, 12/26/12, vakil01@... <vakil01@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > From: vakil01@... <vakil01@...>
                                        > > Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                        > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 11:46 AM
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I purchased a genuine Rong Fu 45 (Square Column) mill about six years ago and have been very happy. The sole negative on this mill is it is more expensive than the clones. This can largely be offset by waiting for a sale and free shipping (recommend Enco)
                                        > >
                                        > > The positives are several - mainly quality and for me, a novice machinist, bypassing the unfamiliar procedures of tuning a piece of equipment that is 'almost' right and running the risk of messing something up permanently. Other positives are Z axis height which allows for long accessories such as boring heads and rotary tables, and the gear head which is much faster than belt changes.
                                        > >
                                        > > The deal-killer positive however was the 1 hp, 3 phase motor. I only have 110V in my shop so this greatly limited my choices. With the 3 phase I purchased a VFD for about $100 that converts 110V single phase to three phase, runs on a 20 amp circuit, and gives me a completely variable speed.
                                        > >
                                        > > My old bench mill had a 1/2 hp motor and it took forever to mill even the smallest parts. Milling with the RF is a genuine pleasure as I do more work in steel than aluminum.
                                        > >
                                        > > Another $.02 for your change box :)
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >

                                      • Jerry Durand
                                        ... For RPM I bought one of the cheap laser tachometers and put the reflective tape on the spindles of both mills and my lathe. One low cost device for all
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 27, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          On 12/27/2012 01:57 PM, Druid Noibn wrote:
                                          Of course, adding a rpm readout to the spindle itself is probably a good call - they are really cheap today.
                                           
                                          Final point - how crtical is the rpm for what we traditionally do?  Is "Low, Medium & High" good enough - whatever the designations mean?  Just a thought and more rhetorical than not.
                                           




                                          For RPM I bought one of the cheap laser tachometers and put the reflective tape on the spindles of both mills and my lathe.  One low cost device for all machines.

                                          As for speed, except for the CNC mill I find I set the other speeds by taste or something...as in "this seems right".
                                          -- 
                                          Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                          tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                          Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                          
                                        • Druid Noibn
                                          Hi Joe,   You got a good machine at a good price - congratulations. The fixes don t seem to be difficult.   If I were to specify a motor for another, it
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Dec 27, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Joe,
                                             
                                            You got a good machine at a good price - congratulations. The "fixes" don't seem to be difficult.
                                             
                                            If I were to specify a motor for another, it would be to go to Leeson and buy a metric motor or see the "best solution" below - BUT....heads up - check both the mounting AND the shaft size. It seems on some systems, like mine, the motor mount and shaft size combination is not a typical standard - so I was told.
                                             
                                            All I did was buy a 56C motor off of eBay (3-phase inverter duty, wash-down) - measure and make an adapter ring to match up the 56C with the metric. Use flat heads screws and add spacers to access the bolts. The shaft coupling is as sounds - easy to turn on a lathe.
                                             
                                            If, you buy a metric motor - most of this is not needed. I say most as one needs to check the shaft diameter - I heard that one fellow had to turn-down the shaft.
                                             
                                            BEST SOLUTION is to buy a replacement motor that is 3-phase as nearly all of the vendors make similar/identical system with 1-phase and 3-phase motors. For example there is even a 3-phase drill press that uses the same head as a '45 mill/drill, Maybe a member of our group wants to buy a system or has one with a 3-pase motor and wants a 1-phase motor so s/he doesn't need to use a phase converter?
                                             
                                            Now as to 3,000 rpm - we know that Industrial Hobbies advertises this capability but they claim that they buy specially hardened gears. (the original IH systems were modified '45 mill/drills which might have been sourced from Lathemaster - I do not know if this is fact).
                                             
                                            Next, I did run my system at 3,000 rpms and watched the smoke - the bearing seal wasn't happy. One of these days I'll look at it.
                                             
                                            If you need to run at high speed - be careful - I do not believe our systems are rated for it. At high speed, use thinner oil in the head. IH used to have a chart on speed and what oil to use, but after the management change, lots of helpful posts were removed.
                                             
                                            If you have a good motor - they can be run over-speed rather easily - check both the VFD and the motor specs. Also consider how long the motor will be running i.e., the duty cycle.
                                             
                                            I'm sure many others will chime in - comments and help are appreciated.
                                             
                                            Kind regards,
                                            DBN


                                            --- On Wed, 12/26/12, Joe Doherty <dohertyj@...> wrote:

                                            From: Joe Doherty <dohertyj@...>
                                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 1:06 PM

                                             
                                            DBN,

                                            I bought a Rong Fu 45 this last spring from Industryrecycles.com  They were careful to point out the damage and when it arrived it was as they described it.

                                            I bid $1500 and they too accepted the offer.  Shipping was $250 or so.  The electrical box is cracked, a kip lever on the quill lock was broken and the motor fan shroud is gone.  

                                            I have been using it without the fan guard but would prefer to have a motor with a fan guard and substituting a three phase motor with a VFD would be a good way to get a fan guard and repair the broken electrical box ,get the full range of possible speeds all at the same time.  The motor is currently single phase single speed 220 volt.  I can feed a VFD either single phase or three phase but Single phase 220 is more convenient.

                                            How does one find a motor to fit?  I see that you made an adapter ring.  

                                            Would you be willing to specify a motor, VFD and make an adapter ring for my RF45?

                                            I would like to be able to use the speeds up to 3000 rpm that are available with the 2 speed motor option on a new RF45. 

                                            I want to be able to make some mill cuts in wood.   3000 would be better for this than the current top speed of 1500rpm.

                                            Thanks,

                                            Joe in New Orleans






                                            On Dec 26, 2012, at 11:05 AM, Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:

                                             
                                            Hi,
                                             
                                            According to all the write-up - you got a good machine. It should be as the "clones" are based on the Rong-Fu.
                                             
                                            For small 3-phase motors, yes we can get a VFD that operates off of 110VAC (I do have one of those). For slightly larger motors we need to go to 220VAC (I have one of those also) either 1 PH or 3 PH. Note that some 3-phase input VFDs will allow 1-hpase input with a de-rated specification; but not all. As "they" say, read the manual <smile>.
                                             
                                            My '45 is from Grizzly - but I changed the metric-sized 1-phase 220VAC motor to a US 3-phase with an VFD. Why..? No other claim other than I wanted to do it.
                                             
                                            Using a US motor meant machining an adaptor flange, and a new shaft coupling.  Heck, we do have a machine shop don’t we <smile>.  It all works well.
                                             
                                            Good currency - keep it flowing,
                                            DBN

                                            --- On Wed, 12/26/12, vakil01@... <vakil01@...> wrote:

                                            From: vakil01@... <vakil01@...>
                                            Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 11:46 AM

                                             


                                            I purchased a genuine Rong Fu 45 (Square Column) mill about six years ago and have been very happy. The sole negative on this mill is it is more expensive than the clones. This can largely be offset by waiting for a sale and free shipping (recommend Enco)

                                            The positives are several - mainly quality and for me, a novice machinist, bypassing the unfamiliar procedures of tuning a piece of equipment that is 'almost' right and running the risk of messing something up permanently. Other positives are Z axis height which allows for long accessories such as boring heads and rotary tables, and the gear head which is much faster than belt changes.

                                            The deal-killer positive however was the 1 hp, 3 phase motor. I only have 110V in my shop so this greatly limited my choices. With the 3 phase I purchased a VFD for about $100 that converts 110V single phase to three phase, runs on a 20 amp circuit, and gives me a completely variable speed.

                                            My old bench mill had a 1/2 hp motor and it took forever to mill even the smallest parts. Milling with the RF is a genuine pleasure as I do more work in steel than aluminum.

                                            Another $.02 for your change box :)


                                          • Druid Noibn
                                            Hi Jerry,   Sounds about right to me also.   Kind regards, DBN ... From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Need some
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Dec 27, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Jerry,
                                               
                                              Sounds about right to me also.
                                               
                                              Kind regards,
                                              DBN

                                              --- On Thu, 12/27/12, Jerry Durand <jdurand@...> wrote:

                                              From: Jerry Durand <jdurand@...>
                                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Need some advice
                                              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 5:11 PM

                                               
                                              On 12/27/2012 01:57 PM, Druid Noibn wrote:
                                              Of course, adding a rpm readout to the spindle itself is probably a good call - they are really cheap today.
                                               
                                              Final point - how crtical is the rpm for what we traditionally do?  Is "Low, Medium & High" good enough - whatever the designations mean?  Just a thought and more rhetorical than not.
                                               




                                              For RPM I bought one of the cheap laser tachometers and put the reflective tape on the spindles of both mills and my lathe.  One low cost device for all machines.

                                              As for speed, except for the CNC mill I find I set the other speeds by taste or something...as in "this seems right".
                                              -- 
                                              Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                              tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                              Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                              
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