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RE: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

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  • Rick Sparber
    Malcolm, That is a very sad story. Many brave people died. Rick From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012

      Malcolm,

       

      That is a very sad story. Many brave people died.

       

      Rick

       

      From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
      Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 6:08 AM
      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

       




      Rick

       

      Didn't see anything in it on 'O' ring retention for solid rocket booster segment joints. ;~)

       

      Malcolm

       

    • Snag
      ... What did you want to know ? I have some direct experience with that system ... FWIW , when that booster exploded I called a friend who still worked at the
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
        Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
        > Rick
        >
        > Didn't see anything in it on 'O' ring retention for solid rocket
        > booster segment joints. ;~)
        >
        > Malcolm
        >
        >

        What did you want to know ? I have some direct experience with that system
        ... FWIW , when that booster exploded I called a friend who still worked at
        the plant . He said they were told NOT to fire that one until the area had
        warmed up - there had been a H2 leak that chilled the joint , which meant
        the o-ring wouldn't obdurate to seal . Politics pure and simple is what
        killed that crew .
        Snag
        Learning keeps
        you young !
      • J. mendoza
        the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren t round. They may be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in same sealing
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
          the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in same sealing location.

          From: Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...>
          To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 6:08 AM
          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

           
          Rick

          Didn't see anything in it on 'O' ring retention for solid rocket booster segment joints. ;~)

          Malcolm

           
          I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
          Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
          The writing is on the wall.
          From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
          To: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com; atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com; Metal_Shapers@yahoogroups.com; mill_drill@yahoogroups.com; gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:48 PM
          Subject: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

           
          One of my students sent me this link to a NASA article on fasteners. It is both an exhaustive treatment of the subject and very readable.
           
          http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19900009424_1990009424.pdf
           
          Enjoy!
           
          Rick
          rgsparber@...
           




        • Snag
          ... Hate to differ , but the o-ring that failed was in fact a round cross section . Don t know what or how many were in later motors , but the early ones all
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
            J. mendoza wrote:
            > the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
            > be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
            > same sealing location.
            >

            Hate to differ , but the o-ring that failed was in fact a round cross
            section . Don't know what or how many were in later motors , but the early
            ones all used one round one .
            One of the jobs I did at Thiokol was washing the burned rubber insulation
            out of case segments , and we removed those o-rings in the washout bay
            . I was also involved in the casting of the motors for STS1 and a couple of
            the later shots .
            --
            Snag
            Learning keeps
            you young !
          • Jerry Durand
            And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract, the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn t ship anything that big
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
              And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract, the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship anything that big from their plant.

              On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
              the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in same sealing location.


              -- 
              Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
              tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
              Skype:  jerrydurand 
              
            • Snag
              ... That d be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne . Sounds like you were also involved
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
                Jerry Durand wrote:
                > And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                > the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship
                > anything that big from their plant.
                >
                > On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                >>
                >>
                >> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                >> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                >> same sealing location.


                That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer
                point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last hands-on
                involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant . Dangerous
                place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile systems that used more
                energetic stuff ...
                Snag
                Learning keeps
                you young !
              • Dallas Richardson
                Snag; I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;  ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan,          more doubtful of
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
                  Snag;
                  I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                   
                   ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan,
                           more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                              than the creation of a new idea..
                        
                   
                  Dallas  IMAX 1340

                  From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                   
                  Jerry Durand wrote:
                  > And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                  > the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship
                  > anything that big from their plant.
                  >
                  > On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                  >> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                  >> same sealing location.

                  That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer
                  point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                  Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last hands-on
                  involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant . Dangerous
                  place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile systems that used more
                  energetic stuff ...
                  Snag
                  Learning keeps
                  you young !



                • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                  In an old rust bucket?   :~) One spark and you would be there in an instant Malcolm   I don t suffer from insanity I enjoy it! Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
                    In an old rust bucket?   :~)
                    One spark and you would be there in an instant

                    Malcolm
                     
                    I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                    Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                    The writing is on the wall.

                    From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                    To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                     
                    Snag;
                    I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                     
                     ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan,
                             more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                                than the creation of a new idea..
                          
                     
                    Dallas  IMAX 1340

                    From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                    To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                     
                    Jerry Durand wrote:
                    > And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                    > the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship
                    > anything that big from their plant.
                    >
                    > On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                    >> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                    >> same sealing location.

                    That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer
                    point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                    Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last hands-on
                    involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant . Dangerous
                    place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile systems that used more
                    energetic stuff ...
                    Snag
                    Learning keeps
                    you young !





                  • Snag
                    ... Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose that s
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
                      Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                      > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                      > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                      >
                      > Malcolm
                      >
                      Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                      project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                      that's probably still classified .

                      Snag
                      Learning keeps
                      you young !


                      > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                      > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                      > The writing is on the wall.
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                      > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Snag;
                      > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                      >
                      > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                      > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                      > than the creation of a new idea..
                      >
                      >
                      > Dallas IMAX 1340
                      >
                      > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                      > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Jerry Durand wrote:
                      >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                      >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                      >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                      >>
                      >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                      >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                      >>> in same sealing location.
                      >
                      > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                      > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                      > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                      > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                      > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                      > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                      > Snag
                      > Learning keeps
                      > you young !
                    • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                      Snag Didn t you see the smiley, I was joking. Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy! Malcolm   I don t
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
                        Snag

                        Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                        Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!

                        Malcolm
                         
                        I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                        Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                        The writing is on the wall.

                        From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                         
                        Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                        > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                        > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                        >
                        > Malcolm
                        >
                        Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                        project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                        that's probably still classified .

                        Snag
                        Learning keeps
                        you young !

                        > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                        > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                        > The writing is on the wall.
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                        > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Snag;
                        > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                        >
                        > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                        > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                        > than the creation of a new idea..
                        >
                        >
                        > Dallas IMAX 1340
                        >
                        > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                        > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Jerry Durand wrote:
                        >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                        >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                        >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                        >>
                        >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                        >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                        >>> in same sealing location.
                        >
                        > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                        > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                        > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                        > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                        > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                        > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                        > Snag
                        > Learning keeps
                        > you young !



                      • Jerry Durand
                        I was belt sanding the edges on some aluminum brackets I was making a couple of days ago and got a big ZAP between my finger and the table. My mind flashed to
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
                          I was belt sanding the edges on some aluminum brackets I was making a couple of days ago and got a big ZAP between my finger and the table.  My mind flashed to the pile of aluminum powder filling the grooves on the sander table, but those particles are probably all too big.  Now titanium...I use milling turnings in my rockets to make brilliant white sparkles in the tails.  Metal powder and thin turnings (flake) can be hazardous to your health in several ways.

                          On 04/05/2012 01:54 PM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                          Snag

                          Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                          Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!


                          -- 
                          Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                          tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                          Skype:  jerrydurand 
                          
                        • J. mendoza
                          Are you refering to early NASA design, that would be correct round when sliced and single seal. After the Columbia Challenger in the 80s, single o-ring seal
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 6, 2012
                            Are you refering to early NASA design, that would be correct round when sliced and single seal. After the Columbia Challenger in the 80s, single o-ring seal was at fault. New engineering design is multiple seals and aren't necessarily round.

                            From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:07 AM
                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                             
                            J. mendoza wrote:
                            > the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                            > be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                            > same sealing location.
                            >

                            Hate to differ , but the o-ring that failed was in fact a round cross
                            section . Don't know what or how many were in later motors , but the early
                            ones all used one round one .
                            One of the jobs I did at Thiokol was washing the burned rubber insulation
                            out of case segments , and we removed those o-rings in the washout bay
                            . I was also involved in the casting of the motors for STS1 and a couple of
                            the later shots .
                            --
                            Snag
                            Learning keeps
                            you young !



                          • Tim W4YN
                            That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel! Tim
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 7, 2012
                              That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel!
                              Tim

                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Snag
                              >
                              > Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                              >
                              > Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!
                              >
                              > Malcolm
                              >
                              >  
                              > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                              > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                              > The writing is on the wall.
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                              > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              > Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                              > > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                              > > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                              > >
                              > > Malcolm
                              > >
                              > Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                              > project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                              > that's probably still classified .
                              >
                              > Snag
                              > Learning keeps
                              > you young !
                              >
                              > > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                              > > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                              > > The writing is on the wall.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                              > > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Snag;
                              > > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                              > >
                              > > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                              > > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                              > > than the creation of a new idea..
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Dallas IMAX 1340
                              > >
                              > > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                              > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Jerry Durand wrote:
                              > >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                              > >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                              > >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                              > >>
                              > >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                              > >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                              > >>> in same sealing location.
                              > >
                              > > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                              > > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                              > > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                              > > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                              > > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                              > > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                              > > Snag
                              > > Learning keeps
                              > > you young !
                              >
                            • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                              I believe the surface grinding of aluminium is done regularly, particularly on cylinder heads. Rock Oil make coolants for the grinding of aluminium. Malcolm  
                              Message 14 of 28 , Apr 7, 2012
                                I believe the surface grinding of aluminium is done regularly, particularly on cylinder heads.
                                Rock Oil make coolants for the grinding of aluminium.

                                Malcolm
                                 
                                I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                The writing is on the wall.

                                From: Tim W4YN <w4yn@...>
                                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2012 2:30 PM
                                Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                 
                                That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel!
                                Tim

                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Snag
                                >
                                > Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                                >
                                > Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!
                                >
                                > Malcolm
                                >
                                >  
                                > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                > The writing is on the wall.
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                > Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                                > > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                                > > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                                > >
                                > > Malcolm
                                > >
                                > Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                                > project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                                > that's probably still classified .
                                >
                                > Snag
                                > Learning keeps
                                > you young !
                                >
                                > > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                > > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                > > The writing is on the wall.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ________________________________
                                > > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                                > > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                                > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Snag;
                                > > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                                > >
                                > > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                                > > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                > > than the creation of a new idea..
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Dallas IMAX 1340
                                > >
                                > > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                                > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Jerry Durand wrote:
                                > >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                                > >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                                > >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                                > >>
                                > >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                                > >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                                > >>> in same sealing location.
                                > >
                                > > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                                > > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                                > > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                                > > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                                > > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                                > > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                                > > Snag
                                > > Learning keeps
                                > > you young !
                                >



                              • Druid Noibn
                                Hi all,   This link might be of some interest on the topic of grinding aluminum & OSHA:  
                                Message 15 of 28 , Apr 7, 2012
                                  Hi all,
                                   
                                  This link might be of some interest on the topic of grinding aluminum & OSHA:
                                   
                                   
                                  Kind regards,
                                  DBN

                                  --- On Sat, 4/7/12, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:

                                  From: Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                  To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Saturday, April 7, 2012, 6:15 PM

                                   
                                  I believe the surface grinding of aluminium is done regularly, particularly on cylinder heads.
                                  Rock Oil make coolants for the grinding of aluminium.

                                  Malcolm
                                   
                                  I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                  Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                  The writing is on the wall.

                                  From: Tim W4YN <w4yn@...>
                                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2012 2:30 PM
                                  Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                   
                                  That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel!
                                  Tim

                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Snag
                                  >
                                  > Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                                  >
                                  > Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!
                                  >
                                  > Malcolm
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                  > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                  > The writing is on the wall.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                  > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                                  > > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                                  > > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                                  > >
                                  > > Malcolm
                                  > >
                                  > Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                                  > project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                                  > that's probably still classified .
                                  >
                                  > Snag
                                  > Learning keeps
                                  > you young !
                                  >
                                  > > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                  > > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                  > > The writing is on the wall.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                                  > > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Snag;
                                  > > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                                  > >
                                  > > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                                  > > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                  > > than the creation of a new idea..
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Dallas IMAX 1340
                                  > >
                                  > > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                  > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Jerry Durand wrote:
                                  > >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                                  > >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                                  > >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                                  > >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                                  > >>> in same sealing location.
                                  > >
                                  > > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                                  > > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                                  > > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                                  > > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                                  > > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                                  > > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                                  > > Snag
                                  > > Learning keeps
                                  > > you young !
                                  >



                                • Jim S.
                                  FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn t grind aluminum offhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Apr 8, 2012
                                    FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminum offhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                     
                                    Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff)
                                  • Barry Kneller
                                    The same applies to Brass Copper and Bronze. You should NEVER grind any non-ferrous metal on any grinder that is usually used for steel A 6 offhand grinding
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                      The same applies to Brass  Copper and  Bronze.
                                       
                                      You should NEVER grind any non-ferrous metal on any grinder that is usually used for steel
                                       
                                      A 6" offhand grinding wheel bursting at full running speed could be likened to a hand grenade exploding - an operator working at the grinder would be very seriously harmed.
                                       
                                       
                                       From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim S.
                                      Sent: 09 April 2012 00:08
                                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                      FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminumoffhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                       
                                      Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff) 
                                       
                                       

                                      No virus found in this message.
                                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                      Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12

                                      No virus found in this message.
                                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                      Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12

                                    • Tim W4YN
                                      This is the real deal with OSHA, if they find aluminum embedded in bench grinder it is an immediate fine. Tim
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                        This is the real deal with OSHA, if they find aluminum embedded in bench grinder it is an immediate fine. Tim

                                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Jim S." <mrjschmidt@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminum offhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                        >
                                        > Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff)
                                        >
                                      • Rob B
                                        I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander. ________________________________ From: Barry Kneller To:
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                          I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.


                                          From: Barry Kneller <bkba09515@...>
                                          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 5:25 AM
                                          Subject: RE: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                           
                                          The same applies to Brass  Copper and  Bronze.
                                           
                                          You should NEVER grind any non-ferrous metal on any grinder that is usually used for steel
                                           
                                          A 6" offhand grinding wheel bursting at full running speed could be likened to a hand grenade exploding - an operator working at the grinder would be very seriously harmed.
                                           
                                           
                                           From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim S.
                                          Sent: 09 April 2012 00:08
                                          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                          FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminumoffhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                           
                                          Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff) 
                                           
                                           
                                          No virus found in this message.
                                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                          Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12
                                          No virus found in this message.
                                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                          Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12


                                        • November X-Ray
                                          Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                            Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 

                                            From: Rob B <smileygirl7977@...>
                                            To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 2:29 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                             
                                            I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.

                                             
                                             
                                          • Jerry Durand
                                            Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander. Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                              Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander.  Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber mat.  :)

                                              On 04/09/2012 11:29 AM, Rob B wrote:
                                              I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.


                                              -- 
                                              Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                              tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                              Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                              
                                            • Druid Noibn
                                              Hi,   I changed the subject   In general, if you need the tool for work 1) look for a different supplier, 2) buy multiple units, 3) buy the insurance and
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                                Hi,
                                                 
                                                I changed the "subject"
                                                 
                                                In general, if you need the tool for "work" 1) look for a different supplier, 2) buy multiple units, 3) buy the insurance and exchange the item when it fails.
                                                 
                                                If you want the item for your hobby - consider 1, 2 or 3 above.
                                                 
                                                If you need a part - be prepared to wait.  I placed an order on Jan 12, 2012 - "4-6 week" delivery - OK, I did laugh a bit and had a good exchange with the fellow on the other end.
                                                 
                                                Called again today - the fellow needs a bit of training on diction, but in any event, I was told "it sometimes takes 6 to 8 weeks for an item to come in, but we will send you a letter when it does."
                                                 
                                                So, caveat emptor.
                                                 
                                                Kind regards,
                                                DBN  
                                                 
                                                 


                                                --- On Mon, 4/9/12, November X-Ray <n8676x@...> wrote:

                                                From: November X-Ray <n8676x@...>
                                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                                To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 2:53 PM

                                                 
                                                Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 

                                                From: Rob B <smileygirl7977@...>
                                                To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 2:29 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                                 
                                                I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.

                                                 
                                                 
                                              • J. mendoza
                                                Don t buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                                  Don't buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.

                                                  From: Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...>
                                                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 12:41 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Now - Grinding & Harbor Freight
                                                   
                                                  Hi,
                                                   
                                                  I changed the "subject"
                                                   
                                                  In general, if you need the tool for "work" 1) look for a different supplier, 2) buy multiple units, 3) buy the insurance and exchange the item when it fails.
                                                   
                                                  If you want the item for your hobby - consider 1, 2 or 3 above.
                                                   
                                                  If you need a part - be prepared to wait.  I placed an order on Jan 12, 2012 - "4-6 week" delivery - OK, I did laugh a bit and had a good exchange with the fellow on the other end.
                                                   
                                                  Called again today - the fellow needs a bit of training on diction, but in any event, I was told "it sometimes takes 6 to 8 weeks for an item to come in, but we will send you a letter when it does."
                                                   
                                                  So, caveat emptor.
                                                   
                                                  Kind regards,
                                                  DBN  
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  --- On Mon, 4/9/12, November X-Ray <n8676x@...> wrote:

                                                  From: November X-Ray <n8676x@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                                  To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 2:53 PM

                                                   
                                                  Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 
                                                  From: Rob B <smileygirl7977@...>
                                                  To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 2:29 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                                   
                                                  I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.
                                                   
                                                   
                                                • Jerry Durand
                                                  I was just in my local ACE store and noticed they have the WD-40 gallons now for the same as the HF sale price. They also have a WD-40 special or something
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                                    I was just in my local ACE store and noticed they have the WD-40 gallons now for the same as the HF sale price.  They also have a WD-40 special or something like that which is supposed to be a rust coating.  I haven't seen that one before but it costs about $10 more per gallon than regular WD-40.

                                                    This ACE seems to be changing out a bunch of product lines, been shopping there for 30 years and suddenly stuff is moving around.  :)

                                                    On 04/09/2012 12:54 PM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                                    Don't buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.


                                                    -- 
                                                    Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                                    tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                                    Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                                    
                                                  • Jerry Durand
                                                    Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander. Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                                      Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander.  Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber mat.  :)

                                                      On 04/09/2012 11:29 AM, Rob B wrote:
                                                      I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.


                                                      -- 
                                                      Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                                      tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                                      Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                                      
                                                    • Druid Noibn
                                                      Hi,   I heard there were a few changes going on at ACE - other postings, Items I bought a year ago are no longer listed and my local store is closed.  
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
                                                        Hi,
                                                         
                                                        I heard there were a few changes going on at ACE - other postings, Items I bought a year ago are no longer listed and my local store is closed.
                                                         
                                                        Thanks for the 'heads up'
                                                         
                                                        Be well,
                                                        DBN

                                                        --- On Mon, 4/9/12, Jerry Durand <jdurand@...> wrote:

                                                        From: Jerry Durand <jdurand@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Now - Grinding & Harbor Freight
                                                        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 4:08 PM

                                                         
                                                        I was just in my local ACE store and noticed they have the WD-40 gallons now for the same as the HF sale price.  They also have a WD-40 special or something like that which is supposed to be a rust coating.  I haven't seen that one before but it costs about $10 more per gallon than regular WD-40.

                                                        This ACE seems to be changing out a bunch of product lines, been shopping there for 30 years and suddenly stuff is moving around.  :)

                                                        On 04/09/2012 12:54 PM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                                        Don't buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.


                                                        -- 
                                                        Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                                        tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                                        Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                                        
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