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Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

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  • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
    Rick Didn t see anything in it on O ring retention for solid rocket booster segment joints. ;~) Malcolm   I don t suffer from insanity I enjoy it! Mene,
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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      Rick

      Didn't see anything in it on 'O' ring retention for solid rocket booster segment joints. ;~)

      Malcolm

       
      I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
      Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
      The writing is on the wall.

      From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
      To: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com; atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com; Metal_Shapers@yahoogroups.com; mill_drill@yahoogroups.com; gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:48 PM
      Subject: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

       
      One of my students sent me this link to a NASA article on fasteners. It is both an exhaustive treatment of the subject and very readable.
       
       
      Enjoy!
       
      Rick
      rgsparber@...
      rick.sparber.org
       


    • Rick Sparber
      Malcolm, That is a very sad story. Many brave people died. Rick From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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        Malcolm,

         

        That is a very sad story. Many brave people died.

         

        Rick

         

        From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
        Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 6:08 AM
        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

         




        Rick

         

        Didn't see anything in it on 'O' ring retention for solid rocket booster segment joints. ;~)

         

        Malcolm

         

      • Snag
        ... What did you want to know ? I have some direct experience with that system ... FWIW , when that booster exploded I called a friend who still worked at the
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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          Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
          > Rick
          >
          > Didn't see anything in it on 'O' ring retention for solid rocket
          > booster segment joints. ;~)
          >
          > Malcolm
          >
          >

          What did you want to know ? I have some direct experience with that system
          ... FWIW , when that booster exploded I called a friend who still worked at
          the plant . He said they were told NOT to fire that one until the area had
          warmed up - there had been a H2 leak that chilled the joint , which meant
          the o-ring wouldn't obdurate to seal . Politics pure and simple is what
          killed that crew .
          Snag
          Learning keeps
          you young !
        • J. mendoza
          the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren t round. They may be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in same sealing
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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            the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in same sealing location.

            From: Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...>
            To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 6:08 AM
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

             
            Rick

            Didn't see anything in it on 'O' ring retention for solid rocket booster segment joints. ;~)

            Malcolm

             
            I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
            Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
            The writing is on the wall.
            From: Rick Sparber <rgsparber@...>
            To: valleymetal@yahoogroups.com; atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com; Metal_Shapers@yahoogroups.com; mill_drill@yahoogroups.com; gingery_machines@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 1:48 PM
            Subject: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

             
            One of my students sent me this link to a NASA article on fasteners. It is both an exhaustive treatment of the subject and very readable.
             
            http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19900009424_1990009424.pdf
             
            Enjoy!
             
            Rick
            rgsparber@...
             




          • Snag
            ... Hate to differ , but the o-ring that failed was in fact a round cross section . Don t know what or how many were in later motors , but the early ones all
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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              J. mendoza wrote:
              > the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
              > be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
              > same sealing location.
              >

              Hate to differ , but the o-ring that failed was in fact a round cross
              section . Don't know what or how many were in later motors , but the early
              ones all used one round one .
              One of the jobs I did at Thiokol was washing the burned rubber insulation
              out of case segments , and we removed those o-rings in the washout bay
              . I was also involved in the casting of the motors for STS1 and a couple of
              the later shots .
              --
              Snag
              Learning keeps
              you young !
            • Jerry Durand
              And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract, the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn t ship anything that big
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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                And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract, the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship anything that big from their plant.

                On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in same sealing location.


                -- 
                Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                Skype:  jerrydurand 
                
              • Snag
                ... That d be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne . Sounds like you were also involved
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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                  Jerry Durand wrote:
                  > And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                  > the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship
                  > anything that big from their plant.
                  >
                  > On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                  >> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                  >> same sealing location.


                  That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer
                  point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                  Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last hands-on
                  involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant . Dangerous
                  place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile systems that used more
                  energetic stuff ...
                  Snag
                  Learning keeps
                  you young !
                • Dallas Richardson
                  Snag; I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;  ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan,          more doubtful of
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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                    Snag;
                    I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                     
                     ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan,
                             more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                                than the creation of a new idea..
                          
                     
                    Dallas  IMAX 1340

                    From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                    To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                     
                    Jerry Durand wrote:
                    > And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                    > the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship
                    > anything that big from their plant.
                    >
                    > On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                    >> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                    >> same sealing location.

                    That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer
                    point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                    Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last hands-on
                    involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant . Dangerous
                    place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile systems that used more
                    energetic stuff ...
                    Snag
                    Learning keeps
                    you young !



                  • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                    In an old rust bucket?   :~) One spark and you would be there in an instant Malcolm   I don t suffer from insanity I enjoy it! Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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                      In an old rust bucket?   :~)
                      One spark and you would be there in an instant

                      Malcolm
                       
                      I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                      Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                      The writing is on the wall.

                      From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                      To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                       
                      Snag;
                      I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                       
                       ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan,
                               more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                                  than the creation of a new idea..
                            
                       
                      Dallas  IMAX 1340

                      From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                      To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                      Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                       
                      Jerry Durand wrote:
                      > And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                      > the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't ship
                      > anything that big from their plant.
                      >
                      > On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                      >> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                      >> same sealing location.

                      That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah , transfer
                      point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                      Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last hands-on
                      involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant . Dangerous
                      place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile systems that used more
                      energetic stuff ...
                      Snag
                      Learning keeps
                      you young !





                    • Snag
                      ... Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose that s
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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                        Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                        > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                        > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                        >
                        > Malcolm
                        >
                        Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                        project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                        that's probably still classified .

                        Snag
                        Learning keeps
                        you young !


                        > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                        > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                        > The writing is on the wall.
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                        > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Snag;
                        > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                        >
                        > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                        > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                        > than the creation of a new idea..
                        >
                        >
                        > Dallas IMAX 1340
                        >
                        > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                        > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Jerry Durand wrote:
                        >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                        >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                        >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                        >>
                        >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                        >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                        >>> in same sealing location.
                        >
                        > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                        > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                        > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                        > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                        > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                        > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                        > Snag
                        > Learning keeps
                        > you young !
                      • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                        Snag Didn t you see the smiley, I was joking. Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy! Malcolm   I don t
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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                          Snag

                          Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                          Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!

                          Malcolm
                           
                          I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                          Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                          The writing is on the wall.

                          From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                           
                          Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                          > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                          > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                          >
                          > Malcolm
                          >
                          Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                          project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                          that's probably still classified .

                          Snag
                          Learning keeps
                          you young !

                          > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                          > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                          > The writing is on the wall.
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                          > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Snag;
                          > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                          >
                          > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                          > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                          > than the creation of a new idea..
                          >
                          >
                          > Dallas IMAX 1340
                          >
                          > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                          > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Jerry Durand wrote:
                          >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                          >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                          >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                          >>
                          >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                          >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                          >>> in same sealing location.
                          >
                          > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                          > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                          > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                          > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                          > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                          > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                          > Snag
                          > Learning keeps
                          > you young !



                        • Jerry Durand
                          I was belt sanding the edges on some aluminum brackets I was making a couple of days ago and got a big ZAP between my finger and the table. My mind flashed to
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 5, 2012
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                            I was belt sanding the edges on some aluminum brackets I was making a couple of days ago and got a big ZAP between my finger and the table.  My mind flashed to the pile of aluminum powder filling the grooves on the sander table, but those particles are probably all too big.  Now titanium...I use milling turnings in my rockets to make brilliant white sparkles in the tails.  Metal powder and thin turnings (flake) can be hazardous to your health in several ways.

                            On 04/05/2012 01:54 PM, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                            Snag

                            Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                            Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!


                            -- 
                            Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                            tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                            Skype:  jerrydurand 
                            
                          • J. mendoza
                            Are you refering to early NASA design, that would be correct round when sliced and single seal. After the Columbia Challenger in the 80s, single o-ring seal
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 6, 2012
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                              Are you refering to early NASA design, that would be correct round when sliced and single seal. After the Columbia Challenger in the 80s, single o-ring seal was at fault. New engineering design is multiple seals and aren't necessarily round.

                              From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:07 AM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                               
                              J. mendoza wrote:
                              > the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                              > be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used in
                              > same sealing location.
                              >

                              Hate to differ , but the o-ring that failed was in fact a round cross
                              section . Don't know what or how many were in later motors , but the early
                              ones all used one round one .
                              One of the jobs I did at Thiokol was washing the burned rubber insulation
                              out of case segments , and we removed those o-rings in the washout bay
                              . I was also involved in the casting of the motors for STS1 and a couple of
                              the later shots .
                              --
                              Snag
                              Learning keeps
                              you young !



                            • Tim W4YN
                              That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel! Tim
                              Message 14 of 28 , Apr 7, 2012
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                                That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel!
                                Tim

                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Snag
                                >
                                > Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                                >
                                > Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!
                                >
                                > Malcolm
                                >
                                >  
                                > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                > The writing is on the wall.
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                > Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                                > > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                                > > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                                > >
                                > > Malcolm
                                > >
                                > Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                                > project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                                > that's probably still classified .
                                >
                                > Snag
                                > Learning keeps
                                > you young !
                                >
                                > > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                > > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                > > The writing is on the wall.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ________________________________
                                > > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                                > > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                                > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Snag;
                                > > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                                > >
                                > > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                                > > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                > > than the creation of a new idea..
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Dallas IMAX 1340
                                > >
                                > > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                                > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Jerry Durand wrote:
                                > >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                                > >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                                > >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                                > >>
                                > >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                                > >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                                > >>> in same sealing location.
                                > >
                                > > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                                > > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                                > > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                                > > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                                > > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                                > > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                                > > Snag
                                > > Learning keeps
                                > > you young !
                                >
                              • Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
                                I believe the surface grinding of aluminium is done regularly, particularly on cylinder heads. Rock Oil make coolants for the grinding of aluminium. Malcolm  
                                Message 15 of 28 , Apr 7, 2012
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                                  I believe the surface grinding of aluminium is done regularly, particularly on cylinder heads.
                                  Rock Oil make coolants for the grinding of aluminium.

                                  Malcolm
                                   
                                  I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                  Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                  The writing is on the wall.

                                  From: Tim W4YN <w4yn@...>
                                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2012 2:30 PM
                                  Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                   
                                  That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel!
                                  Tim

                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Snag
                                  >
                                  > Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                                  >
                                  > Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!
                                  >
                                  > Malcolm
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                  > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                  > The writing is on the wall.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                  > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                                  > > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                                  > > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                                  > >
                                  > > Malcolm
                                  > >
                                  > Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                                  > project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                                  > that's probably still classified .
                                  >
                                  > Snag
                                  > Learning keeps
                                  > you young !
                                  >
                                  > > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                  > > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                  > > The writing is on the wall.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                                  > > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Snag;
                                  > > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                                  > >
                                  > > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                                  > > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                  > > than the creation of a new idea..
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Dallas IMAX 1340
                                  > >
                                  > > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                  > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Jerry Durand wrote:
                                  > >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                                  > >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                                  > >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                                  > >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                                  > >>> in same sealing location.
                                  > >
                                  > > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                                  > > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                                  > > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                                  > > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                                  > > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                                  > > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                                  > > Snag
                                  > > Learning keeps
                                  > > you young !
                                  >



                                • Druid Noibn
                                  Hi all,   This link might be of some interest on the topic of grinding aluminum & OSHA:  
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Apr 7, 2012
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                                    Hi all,
                                     
                                    This link might be of some interest on the topic of grinding aluminum & OSHA:
                                     
                                     
                                    Kind regards,
                                    DBN

                                    --- On Sat, 4/7/12, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:

                                    From: Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                    To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Saturday, April 7, 2012, 6:15 PM

                                     
                                    I believe the surface grinding of aluminium is done regularly, particularly on cylinder heads.
                                    Rock Oil make coolants for the grinding of aluminium.

                                    Malcolm
                                     
                                    I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                    Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                    The writing is on the wall.

                                    From: Tim W4YN <w4yn@...>
                                    To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2012 2:30 PM
                                    Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                     
                                    That was due to heat build up in grinding wheel from pores being clogged, OSHA violation if they find aluminium on grinding wheel!
                                    Tim

                                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Snag
                                    >
                                    > Didn't you see the smiley, I was joking.
                                    >
                                    > Mind you there are stories of grinders going whoosh when grinding steel after grinding alloy!
                                    >
                                    > Malcolm
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                    > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                    > The writing is on the wall.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                    > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:30 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > Malcolm Parker-Lisberg wrote:
                                    > > In an old rust bucket? :~)
                                    > > One spark and you would be there in an instant
                                    > >
                                    > > Malcolm
                                    > >
                                    > Nah , takes a bit more than just a spark to light thermite off . One
                                    > project I was involved with used a thermite-based compound for a purpose
                                    > that's probably still classified .
                                    >
                                    > Snag
                                    > Learning keeps
                                    > you young !
                                    >
                                    > > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
                                    > > Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
                                    > > The writing is on the wall.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ________________________________
                                    > > From: Dallas Richardson <classicpoints@...>
                                    > > To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:05 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Snag;
                                    > > I used to haul that powderized aluminum;;
                                    > >
                                    > > ... It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
                                    > > plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage,
                                    > > than the creation of a new idea..
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Dallas IMAX 1340
                                    > >
                                    > > From: Snag <snag_one@...>
                                    > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 12:27 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Jerry Durand wrote:
                                    > >> And the o-rings were only added so Morton could bid on the contract,
                                    > >> the original specified engines were one piece but Morton couldn't
                                    > >> ship anything that big from their plant.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> On 04/05/2012 08:43 AM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>> the Aerospace application o-rings when sliced aren't round. They may
                                    > >>> be octagon, square or other shaped. Multiple o-ring seals are used
                                    > >>> in same sealing location.
                                    > >
                                    > > That'd be Wasatch Division ? 26 miles west of Brigham City Utah ,
                                    > > transfer point from truck to rail was in Corinne .
                                    > > Sounds like you were also involved with that project . My last
                                    > > hands-on involvement was standardizing ingredients for the propellant
                                    > > . Dangerous place , Plant 3 . We also worked with other missile
                                    > > systems that used more energetic stuff ...
                                    > > Snag
                                    > > Learning keeps
                                    > > you young !
                                    >



                                  • Jim S.
                                    FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn t grind aluminum offhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Apr 8, 2012
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                                      FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminum offhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                       
                                      Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff)
                                    • Barry Kneller
                                      The same applies to Brass Copper and Bronze. You should NEVER grind any non-ferrous metal on any grinder that is usually used for steel A 6 offhand grinding
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                        The same applies to Brass  Copper and  Bronze.
                                         
                                        You should NEVER grind any non-ferrous metal on any grinder that is usually used for steel
                                         
                                        A 6" offhand grinding wheel bursting at full running speed could be likened to a hand grenade exploding - an operator working at the grinder would be very seriously harmed.
                                         
                                         
                                         From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim S.
                                        Sent: 09 April 2012 00:08
                                        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                        FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminumoffhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                         
                                        Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff) 
                                         
                                         

                                        No virus found in this message.
                                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12

                                        No virus found in this message.
                                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12

                                      • Tim W4YN
                                        This is the real deal with OSHA, if they find aluminum embedded in bench grinder it is an immediate fine. Tim
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                          This is the real deal with OSHA, if they find aluminum embedded in bench grinder it is an immediate fine. Tim

                                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Jim S." <mrjschmidt@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminum offhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                          >
                                          > Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff)
                                          >
                                        • Rob B
                                          I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander. ________________________________ From: Barry Kneller To:
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                            I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.


                                            From: Barry Kneller <bkba09515@...>
                                            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 5:25 AM
                                            Subject: RE: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                             
                                            The same applies to Brass  Copper and  Bronze.
                                             
                                            You should NEVER grind any non-ferrous metal on any grinder that is usually used for steel
                                             
                                            A 6" offhand grinding wheel bursting at full running speed could be likened to a hand grenade exploding - an operator working at the grinder would be very seriously harmed.
                                             
                                             
                                             From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim S.
                                            Sent: 09 April 2012 00:08
                                            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                            FWIW, I was told years ago that the reason you didn't grind aluminumoffhand was that the aluminum would glaze the wheel. The next guy would come by and try to grind steel. The glazed wheel on steel would get hot and cause the aluminum to expand, breaking the wheel at speed. Not a good thing. . .
                                             
                                            Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff) 
                                             
                                             
                                            No virus found in this message.
                                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                            Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12
                                            No virus found in this message.
                                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                            Version: 2012.0.2126 / Virus Database: 2411/4924 - Release Date: 04/09/12


                                          • November X-Ray
                                            Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                              Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 

                                              From: Rob B <smileygirl7977@...>
                                              To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 2:29 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                               
                                              I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.

                                               
                                               
                                            • Jerry Durand
                                              Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander. Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                                Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander.  Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber mat.  :)

                                                On 04/09/2012 11:29 AM, Rob B wrote:
                                                I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.


                                                -- 
                                                Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                                tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                                Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                                
                                              • Druid Noibn
                                                Hi,   I changed the subject   In general, if you need the tool for work 1) look for a different supplier, 2) buy multiple units, 3) buy the insurance and
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                                  Hi,
                                                   
                                                  I changed the "subject"
                                                   
                                                  In general, if you need the tool for "work" 1) look for a different supplier, 2) buy multiple units, 3) buy the insurance and exchange the item when it fails.
                                                   
                                                  If you want the item for your hobby - consider 1, 2 or 3 above.
                                                   
                                                  If you need a part - be prepared to wait.  I placed an order on Jan 12, 2012 - "4-6 week" delivery - OK, I did laugh a bit and had a good exchange with the fellow on the other end.
                                                   
                                                  Called again today - the fellow needs a bit of training on diction, but in any event, I was told "it sometimes takes 6 to 8 weeks for an item to come in, but we will send you a letter when it does."
                                                   
                                                  So, caveat emptor.
                                                   
                                                  Kind regards,
                                                  DBN  
                                                   
                                                   


                                                  --- On Mon, 4/9/12, November X-Ray <n8676x@...> wrote:

                                                  From: November X-Ray <n8676x@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                                  To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 2:53 PM

                                                   
                                                  Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 

                                                  From: Rob B <smileygirl7977@...>
                                                  To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 2:29 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners

                                                   
                                                  I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.

                                                   
                                                   
                                                • J. mendoza
                                                  Don t buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                                    Don't buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.

                                                    From: Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...>
                                                    To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 12:41 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Now - Grinding & Harbor Freight
                                                     
                                                    Hi,
                                                     
                                                    I changed the "subject"
                                                     
                                                    In general, if you need the tool for "work" 1) look for a different supplier, 2) buy multiple units, 3) buy the insurance and exchange the item when it fails.
                                                     
                                                    If you want the item for your hobby - consider 1, 2 or 3 above.
                                                     
                                                    If you need a part - be prepared to wait.  I placed an order on Jan 12, 2012 - "4-6 week" delivery - OK, I did laugh a bit and had a good exchange with the fellow on the other end.
                                                     
                                                    Called again today - the fellow needs a bit of training on diction, but in any event, I was told "it sometimes takes 6 to 8 weeks for an item to come in, but we will send you a letter when it does."
                                                     
                                                    So, caveat emptor.
                                                     
                                                    Kind regards,
                                                    DBN  
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    --- On Mon, 4/9/12, November X-Ray <n8676x@...> wrote:

                                                    From: November X-Ray <n8676x@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                                    To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 2:53 PM

                                                     
                                                    Speaking of belt sanders, Harbor Freight has their air belt sander on sale currently for $19.99. Does anyone know if these little sanders work well? 
                                                    From: Rob B <smileygirl7977@...>
                                                    To: "mill_drill@yahoogroups.com" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 2:29 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Amazing NASA artcle on fasteners
                                                     
                                                    I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.
                                                     
                                                     
                                                  • Jerry Durand
                                                    I was just in my local ACE store and noticed they have the WD-40 gallons now for the same as the HF sale price. They also have a WD-40 special or something
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                                      I was just in my local ACE store and noticed they have the WD-40 gallons now for the same as the HF sale price.  They also have a WD-40 special or something like that which is supposed to be a rust coating.  I haven't seen that one before but it costs about $10 more per gallon than regular WD-40.

                                                      This ACE seems to be changing out a bunch of product lines, been shopping there for 30 years and suddenly stuff is moving around.  :)

                                                      On 04/09/2012 12:54 PM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                                      Don't buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.


                                                      -- 
                                                      Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                                      tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                                      Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                                      
                                                    • Jerry Durand
                                                      Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander. Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                                        Except for that big static spark I got last week from my finger to the table on the belt sander.  Guess I should grind barefoot and not standing on the rubber mat.  :)

                                                        On 04/09/2012 11:29 AM, Rob B wrote:
                                                        I heard that is why you should try to do most grinding on a belt sander.


                                                        -- 
                                                        Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                                        tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                                        Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                                        
                                                      • Druid Noibn
                                                        Hi,   I heard there were a few changes going on at ACE - other postings, Items I bought a year ago are no longer listed and my local store is closed.  
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Apr 9, 2012
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                                                          Hi,
                                                           
                                                          I heard there were a few changes going on at ACE - other postings, Items I bought a year ago are no longer listed and my local store is closed.
                                                           
                                                          Thanks for the 'heads up'
                                                           
                                                          Be well,
                                                          DBN

                                                          --- On Mon, 4/9/12, Jerry Durand <jdurand@...> wrote:

                                                          From: Jerry Durand <jdurand@...>
                                                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Now - Grinding & Harbor Freight
                                                          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 4:08 PM

                                                           
                                                          I was just in my local ACE store and noticed they have the WD-40 gallons now for the same as the HF sale price.  They also have a WD-40 special or something like that which is supposed to be a rust coating.  I haven't seen that one before but it costs about $10 more per gallon than regular WD-40.

                                                          This ACE seems to be changing out a bunch of product lines, been shopping there for 30 years and suddenly stuff is moving around.  :)

                                                          On 04/09/2012 12:54 PM, J. mendoza wrote:
                                                          Don't buy cheap low quality stuff online. You need easy access to return should it prematurely faill, which they do, specially Harbor Freight products.


                                                          -- 
                                                          Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
                                                          tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
                                                          Skype:  jerrydurand 
                                                          
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