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Re: [mill_drill] End mills

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  • MERT BAKER
    If you are careful & know what you are doing, you can do a fair job sharpening them freehand on the bench grinder. Proper sharpening requires a jig grinder
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 5, 2002
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      If you are careful & know what you are doing, you can do a fair job
      sharpening them freehand on the bench grinder. Proper sharpening requires a
      jig grinder like the Quorn or Darex.
      Mert
      MertBaker@...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dennis Tarkir" <dennis@...>
      To: "Yahoo-Mill/drill (E-mail)" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:38 AM
      Subject: [mill_drill] End mills


      > I need to buy some 3/4" and 1" end mills. The prices are all over the
      > place. Who do you recommend these days.
      >
      > Also, what is a good way to sharpen end mills?
      >
      > Dennis Tarkir
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
    • Steve Roberts
      These do come in a range of prices. You have the imports some of which have graduated to vacuum tin coated and I treat them more as jobbing cutters to be used
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 7, 2002
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        These do come in a range of prices. You have the imports some of which have
        graduated to vacuum tin coated and I treat them more as jobbing cutters to
        be used occasionally. Then you have the USA "Niagara" end mills which I
        personal like. Then you have my preference which is insert end mills by
        Komet (Chicago) but they are expensive but they do eliminate sharpening. I
        have recently due to cutting hardened material been using solid carbide end
        mills which are also priced high.
        Dennis its a question of what you want to accomplish. If its high cubic inch
        removal per horsepower then it costs you. If it is for hobby use then you
        can adjust your expenditure accordingly as then you are not worrying about
        the amount of time it takes.
        Safe chip cutting
        Steve Roberts~Professional Engineer
        grizzlyplans.com
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dennis Tarkir" <dennis@...>
        To: "Yahoo-Mill/drill (E-mail)" <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:38 AM
        Subject: [mill_drill] End mills


        > I need to buy some 3/4" and 1" end mills. The prices are all over the
        > place. Who do you recommend these days.
        >
        > Also, what is a good way to sharpen end mills?
        >
        > Dennis Tarkir
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > mill_drill-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • SupportOurTroops - Skip
        I must respectfully disagree with a couple of points here. As for cutting slots, there is always side pressure on and end mill whether 2 or 4 flute. On a 2
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 4, 2008
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          I must respectfully disagree with a couple of points here.
          As for cutting slots, there is always side pressure on and end mill
          whether 2 or 4 flute. On a 2 flute endmill the cutting forces do not
          equalize except for the instant that that both teeth are engaged at
          90° to the direction of travel. The majority of the time one flute is
          cutting and pushing the the endmill 90° to the direction of travel.
          With a 4 flute endmill there is always side pressure. This is why
          you lock the table for the direction not feeding.
          If the slot width is critical there is a procedure mentioned in the
          Trade Secrets book that works well. First drill and ream two on
          size holes at the ends of the slot. Then mill the center of the slot
          with an under sized mill. Then take cleanup passes to bring the
          slot to the correct size.
          Both 2 and 4 flute endmills are available in center cutting and
          none center cutting style. Better finish is the main reason for
          using a 4 flute. They are generally weaker than equivalent 2 flute
          mills because they have less metal in the middle.
          my2¢

          Skip Campbell
          Ft. Worth, Texas



          > 3a. Re: End Mills
          > Posted by: "Robert E. Hawley" roberthawley_3@... shovelop1
          > Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:23 am ((PST))
          >
          > Thanks Stan, that helped me a lot. I will give them a try now with more confidence. I just don't know how I got the idea that 2 flute end mills were for softer material. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question so thoroughly. Bob
          >
          > From: Stan Stocker
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:59 AM
          > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] End Mills
          >
          > Hi Bob,
          >
          > Two flute end mills are usually end cutting, so you can plunge with
          > them. Two flute end mills are also sometimes called slot drills, as the
          > cutting forces equalize when cutting a slot. A four flute end mill will
          > cut an over sized or uneven slot, as you end up with two adjacent flutes
          > cutting, which flexes the mill. Four flute end mills do nice edge work
          > in most materials, but they do have less clearance for chips. Assuming
          > you do not have flood cooling to clear swarf, in many softer materials
          > like aluminum the two flute will eject chips better.
          >
          > The chip load per tooth when run "by the book" is identical regardless
          > of the number of flutes (or teeth, tips, whatever is appropriate for the
          > cutter in question). If the depth of cut is not excessive, you would
          > tend to move the work past a four flute mill at twice the speed you
          > would move it past a two flute. In a production environment, maximum
          > material removal in the minimum time possible with an acceptable finish
          > is how you make money.
          >
          > In a home shop, using the correct lubricant for the cut is often a
          > bigger issue. Keeping a few flux brushes handy, a wash bottle with
          > kerosene or WD40 for aluminum, and a small tip proof can of cutting oil
          > handy will do more for your results than worrying about optimum cutter
          > selection. Just remember, no plunging with four flute end mills! They
          > can NOT center cut.
          >
          > I leave a 1/2 inch two flute in one of the mills most of the time. For
          > a lot of the quick little tweaks and cuts it's a good balance between
          > material removal and versatility.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Stan
          >
          > shovelop1 wrote:
          > > I have a question, I have always assumed that 2 flute endmills were for
          > > brass, aluiminum and other soft metals. That 4 flute endmilss were for
          > > steel and all the harder alloy's can someone tell me if I am making an
          > > error here. To my way of thinking a 2 flute endmill would have a huge
          > > load on the teeth in even a light cut in steel or stainless. If my
          > > thoughts are wrong can someone tell me the right way to reason this.
          > > Thanks Bob
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (5)
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > 3b. Re: End Mills
          > Posted by: "Ray Livingston" jagboy1964@... himykabibble
          > Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:15 pm ((PST))
          >
          > Bob,
          >
          > 2-flute endmills *will* work better in soft materials. 4-flute
          > mills will tend to clog very quickly in aluminum and brass.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Ray L.
          >
          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Robert E. Hawley"
          > <roberthawley_3@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks Stan, that helped me a lot. I will give them a try now with
          > more confidence. I just don't know how I got the idea that 2 flute
          > end mills were for softer material. I appreciate you taking the time
          > to answer my question so thoroughly. Bob
          > >
          > >
          > > From: Stan Stocker
          > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:59 AM
          > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] End Mills
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Bob,
          > >
          > > Two flute end mills are usually end cutting, so you can plunge with
          > > them. Two flute end mills are also sometimes called slot drills, as
          > the
          > > cutting forces equalize when cutting a slot. A four flute end mill
          > will
          > > cut an over sized or uneven slot, as you end up with two adjacent
          > flutes
          > > cutting, which flexes the mill. Four flute end mills do nice edge
          > work
          > > in most materials, but they do have less clearance for chips.
          > Assuming
          > > you do not have flood cooling to clear swarf, in many softer
          > materials
          > > like aluminum the two flute will eject chips better.
          > >
          > > The chip load per tooth when run "by the book" is identical
          > regardless
          > > of the number of flutes (or teeth, tips, whatever is appropriate
          > for the
          > > cutter in question). If the depth of cut is not excessive, you
          > would
          > > tend to move the work past a four flute mill at twice the speed you
          > > would move it past a two flute. In a production environment,
          > maximum
          > > material removal in the minimum time possible with an acceptable
          > finish
          > > is how you make money.
          > >
          > > In a home shop, using the correct lubricant for the cut is often a
          > > bigger issue. Keeping a few flux brushes handy, a wash bottle with
          > > kerosene or WD40 for aluminum, and a small tip proof can of cutting
          > oil
          > > handy will do more for your results than worrying about optimum
          > cutter
          > > selection. Just remember, no plunging with four flute end mills!
          > They
          > > can NOT center cut.
          > >
          > > I leave a 1/2 inch two flute in one of the mills most of the time.
          > For
          > > a lot of the quick little tweaks and cuts it's a good balance
          > between
          > > material removal and versatility.
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > > Stan
          > >
          > > shovelop1 wrote:
          > > > I have a question, I have always assumed that 2 flute endmills
          > were for
          > > > brass, aluiminum and other soft metals. That 4 flute endmilss
          > were for
          > > > steel and all the harder alloy's can someone tell me if I am
          > making an
          > > > error here. To my way of thinking a 2 flute endmill would have a
          > huge
          > > > load on the teeth in even a light cut in steel or stainless. If
          > my
          > > > thoughts are wrong can someone tell me the right way to reason
          > this.
          > > > Thanks Bob
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (5)
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > 4a. CDCO
          > Posted by: "aldesigns" aldesigns@... aldesigns
          > Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:37 am ((PST))
          >
          > I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was wondering
          > has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
          > in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
          > customs and duty work?
          >
          > thanks
          > Shamas
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > 4b. Re: CDCO
          > Posted by: "corey renner" vandal968@... corey94945
          > Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:34 am ((PST))
          >
          > I've bought endmills from them a few times. Quality & service has been
          > good.
          >
          > cheers,
          > c
          > On Jan 3, 2008 10:37 AM, aldesigns <aldesigns@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was wondering
          > > has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
          > > in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
          > > customs and duty work?
          > >
          > > thanks
          > > Shamas
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > 4c. Re: CDCO
          > Posted by: "kben77" kben77@... kben77
          > Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 12:19 pm ((PST))
          >
          > I've bought a bunch of stuff from them and have no complaints.
          > Good service and decent quality stuff.
          >
          > > I've bought endmills from them a few times. Quality & service has been
          > > good.
          > >
          > > cheers,
          > > c
          > > On Jan 3, 2008 10:37 AM, aldesigns <aldesigns@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was
          > wondering
          > > > has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
          > > > in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
          > > > customs and duty work?
          > > >
          > > > thanks
          > > > Shamas
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > 4d. Re: CDCO
          > Posted by: "William Abernathy" william@... Yahuselah
          > Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:01 pm ((PST))
          >
          > I live in the US. Great prices. Reasonable fulfillment time. No complaints.
          >
          > --William
          >
          > aldesigns wrote:
          > > I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was wondering
          > > has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
          > > in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
          > > customs and duty work?
          > >
          > > thanks
          > > Shamas
          >
          > Messages in this topic (4)
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > 5a. Re: stop breaking endmills
          > Posted by: "cuttysark71" cuttysark71@... cuttysark71
          > Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:56 pm ((PST))
          >
          > Shamas,
          >
          > I'm assuming that you are cutting the slot that does not go the full
          > length of the work piece. If that is true, simply start at the
          > other end of the part and end the cut against 270 degree contact
          > between the part and the endmill.
          >
          > If my assumption is not correct and the slot goes the full length of
          > the part, mill part way from one end, retract the quill, and finish
          > the cut from the other end. I think that will solve the problem.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn N" <sleykin@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I usually kill the power feed near the end of the cut and finish
          > by hand. It always makes nasty sounds at the end as it is pulling
          > the metal into the cut. Also helps to tighten the gibbs a bit to
          > keep it from pulling the table. When the slot opens, one side of
          > the endmill is climb milling with about half the width of the
          > cutter. It takes a very ridgid setup to do that without breaking
          > things.
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: aldesigns
          > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:40 AM
          > > Subject: [mill_drill] Re: stop breaking endmills
          > >
          > >
          > > I am not cutting all the way through the plate maybe more accurate
          > to
          > > call it a trough. If it was wood you would call it a dado cut. By
          > > breaking through I mean when the cutter reaches the end of the cut
          > and
          > > starts to leave the work piece where a portion of the cutter is
          > > hitting air and the rest is still cutting steel. I use the
          > recommended
          > > speed for that size of endmill perhaps the feed rate is to high. I
          > > just got a new powerfeed for the table and haven't figured out what
          > > the dial settings 1-9 mean in terms of sfm. When I use to crank by
          > > hand I know I would slow the feed at the end of a cut to keep the
          > same
          > > kind of thing from happening. Something maybe loose either the
          > vise
          > > or the table is allowing the cutter to push or pull work just
          > slightly.
          > >
          > > shamas
          > >
          > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Rexarino <rexarino@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Shamas, how are you holding the steel? When you say "breaking
          > > through", I
          > > > have a vision of a piece of steel clamped in a vice, with a slot
          > > extending
          > > > through the end of the steel, ultimately forming a U shaped
          > > workpiece. If
          > > > this is the scenario, the steel is deflecting into the end mill
          > as you
          > > > finish the cut, causing vibration and breakage.
          > > >
          > > > Regardless, try clamping both sides of the steel down to the
          > table
          > > with a
          > > > sacrificial piece of hardboard or sheet aluminum under it to
          > protect the
          > > > table, rather than holding in the vice.
          > > >
          > > > If you are already clamping to the table rather than using a
          > vice,
          > > I've no
          > > > suggestion.
          > > >
          > > > rexarino
          > > >
          > > > On Dec 31, 2007 11:19 AM, aldesigns <aldesigns@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Hi all
          > > > >
          > > > > When I am cutting a slot, in this case it was 3/8" wide 1/8"
          > deep in
          > > > > mild steel, it cuts fine until the end where it starts to break
          > > > > through the material. This is when the endmill starts catching
          > on the
          > > > > leading edge causing the work and table to vibrate slightly.
          > in this
          > > > > case it caused the endmill to break. it was a unused new
          > endmill, that
          > > > > hurts. I do tighten the jibs. So is there anything else I
          > should be
          > > > > doing to keep this from happening in the future? Is it a
          > problem with
          > > > > the operator or the machine? maybe the feed rate was too high
          > or the
          > > > > work wasn't held secure enough? Any insights will be greatly
          > > appreciated.
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks
          > > > > Shamas
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          >
          > Messages in this topic (13)
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        • SupportOurTroops - Skip
          Sorry guys, I intended to delete the last 90% of that digest info and forgot. Skip Campbell
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 4, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Sorry guys, I intended to delete the last 90% of that digest info and forgot.

            Skip Campbell
          • Mike Nash
            My understanding of the problem with slotting with a 4 flute is that the force of the leading tooth will push the end mill to the side. With only two flutes,
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              My understanding of the problem with slotting with a 4 flute is that the
              force of the leading tooth will push the end mill to the side. With only two
              flutes, the other flute is in the clear at this time. But with 4 flutes, the
              flute coming behind the leading flute is now being forced into the side of
              the cut, taking out more material than desired.

              Mike Nash

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "SupportOurTroops - Skip"


              >I must respectfully disagree with a couple of points here.
              > As for cutting slots, there is always side pressure on and end mill
              > whether 2 or 4 flute. On a 2 flute endmill the cutting forces do not
              > equalize except for the instant that that both teeth are engaged at
              > 90° to the direction of travel. The majority of the time one flute is
              > cutting and pushing the the endmill 90° to the direction of travel.
              > With a 4 flute endmill there is always side pressure. This is why
              > you lock the table for the direction not feeding.
              > If the slot width is critical there is a procedure mentioned in the
              > Trade Secrets book that works well. First drill and ream two on
              > size holes at the ends of the slot. Then mill the center of the slot
              > with an under sized mill. Then take cleanup passes to bring the
              > slot to the correct size.
              > Both 2 and 4 flute endmills are available in center cutting and
              > none center cutting style. Better finish is the main reason for
              > using a 4 flute. They are generally weaker than equivalent 2 flute
              > mills because they have less metal in the middle.
              > my2¢
              >
              > Skip Campbell
              > Ft. Worth, Texas
              >
              >
              >
              >> 3a. Re: End Mills
              >> Posted by: "Robert E. Hawley" roberthawley_3@... shovelop1
              >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:23 am ((PST))
              >>
              >> Thanks Stan, that helped me a lot. I will give them a try now with more
              >> confidence. I just don't know how I got the idea that 2 flute end mills
              >> were for softer material. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my
              >> question so thoroughly. Bob
              >>
              >> From: Stan Stocker
              >> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:59 AM
              >> To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: Re: [mill_drill] End Mills
              >>
              >> Hi Bob,
              >>
              >> Two flute end mills are usually end cutting, so you can plunge with
              >> them. Two flute end mills are also sometimes called slot drills, as the
              >> cutting forces equalize when cutting a slot. A four flute end mill will
              >> cut an over sized or uneven slot, as you end up with two adjacent flutes
              >> cutting, which flexes the mill. Four flute end mills do nice edge work
              >> in most materials, but they do have less clearance for chips. Assuming
              >> you do not have flood cooling to clear swarf, in many softer materials
              >> like aluminum the two flute will eject chips better.
              >>
              >> The chip load per tooth when run "by the book" is identical regardless
              >> of the number of flutes (or teeth, tips, whatever is appropriate for the
              >> cutter in question). If the depth of cut is not excessive, you would
              >> tend to move the work past a four flute mill at twice the speed you
              >> would move it past a two flute. In a production environment, maximum
              >> material removal in the minimum time possible with an acceptable finish
              >> is how you make money.
              >>
              >> In a home shop, using the correct lubricant for the cut is often a
              >> bigger issue. Keeping a few flux brushes handy, a wash bottle with
              >> kerosene or WD40 for aluminum, and a small tip proof can of cutting oil
              >> handy will do more for your results than worrying about optimum cutter
              >> selection. Just remember, no plunging with four flute end mills! They
              >> can NOT center cut.
              >>
              >> I leave a 1/2 inch two flute in one of the mills most of the time. For
              >> a lot of the quick little tweaks and cuts it's a good balance between
              >> material removal and versatility.
              >>
              >> Cheers,
              >> Stan
              >>
              >> shovelop1 wrote:
              >> > I have a question, I have always assumed that 2 flute endmills were for
              >> > brass, aluiminum and other soft metals. That 4 flute endmilss were for
              >> > steel and all the harder alloy's can someone tell me if I am making an
              >> > error here. To my way of thinking a 2 flute endmill would have a huge
              >> > load on the teeth in even a light cut in steel or stainless. If my
              >> > thoughts are wrong can someone tell me the right way to reason this.
              >> > Thanks Bob
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >>
              >> Messages in this topic (5)
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >>
              >> 3b. Re: End Mills
              >> Posted by: "Ray Livingston" jagboy1964@... himykabibble
              >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:15 pm ((PST))
              >>
              >> Bob,
              >>
              >> 2-flute endmills *will* work better in soft materials. 4-flute
              >> mills will tend to clog very quickly in aluminum and brass.
              >>
              >> Regards,
              >> Ray L.
              >>
              >> --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Robert E. Hawley"
              >> <roberthawley_3@...> wrote:
              >> >
              >> > Thanks Stan, that helped me a lot. I will give them a try now with
              >> more confidence. I just don't know how I got the idea that 2 flute
              >> end mills were for softer material. I appreciate you taking the time
              >> to answer my question so thoroughly. Bob
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > From: Stan Stocker
              >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:59 AM
              >> > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              >> > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] End Mills
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > Hi Bob,
              >> >
              >> > Two flute end mills are usually end cutting, so you can plunge with
              >> > them. Two flute end mills are also sometimes called slot drills, as
              >> the
              >> > cutting forces equalize when cutting a slot. A four flute end mill
              >> will
              >> > cut an over sized or uneven slot, as you end up with two adjacent
              >> flutes
              >> > cutting, which flexes the mill. Four flute end mills do nice edge
              >> work
              >> > in most materials, but they do have less clearance for chips.
              >> Assuming
              >> > you do not have flood cooling to clear swarf, in many softer
              >> materials
              >> > like aluminum the two flute will eject chips better.
              >> >
              >> > The chip load per tooth when run "by the book" is identical
              >> regardless
              >> > of the number of flutes (or teeth, tips, whatever is appropriate
              >> for the
              >> > cutter in question). If the depth of cut is not excessive, you
              >> would
              >> > tend to move the work past a four flute mill at twice the speed you
              >> > would move it past a two flute. In a production environment,
              >> maximum
              >> > material removal in the minimum time possible with an acceptable
              >> finish
              >> > is how you make money.
              >> >
              >> > In a home shop, using the correct lubricant for the cut is often a
              >> > bigger issue. Keeping a few flux brushes handy, a wash bottle with
              >> > kerosene or WD40 for aluminum, and a small tip proof can of cutting
              >> oil
              >> > handy will do more for your results than worrying about optimum
              >> cutter
              >> > selection. Just remember, no plunging with four flute end mills!
              >> They
              >> > can NOT center cut.
              >> >
              >> > I leave a 1/2 inch two flute in one of the mills most of the time.
              >> For
              >> > a lot of the quick little tweaks and cuts it's a good balance
              >> between
              >> > material removal and versatility.
              >> >
              >> > Cheers,
              >> > Stan
              >> >
              >> > shovelop1 wrote:
              >> > > I have a question, I have always assumed that 2 flute endmills
              >> were for
              >> > > brass, aluiminum and other soft metals. That 4 flute endmilss
              >> were for
              >> > > steel and all the harder alloy's can someone tell me if I am
              >> making an
              >> > > error here. To my way of thinking a 2 flute endmill would have a
              >> huge
              >> > > load on the teeth in even a light cut in steel or stainless. If
              >> my
              >> > > thoughts are wrong can someone tell me the right way to reason
              >> this.
              >> > > Thanks Bob
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> >
              >>
              >> Messages in this topic (5)
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >>
              >> 4a. CDCO
              >> Posted by: "aldesigns" aldesigns@... aldesigns
              >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:37 am ((PST))
              >>
              >> I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was wondering
              >> has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
              >> in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
              >> customs and duty work?
              >>
              >> thanks
              >> Shamas
              >>
              >> Messages in this topic (4)
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >>
              >> 4b. Re: CDCO
              >> Posted by: "corey renner" vandal968@... corey94945
              >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:34 am ((PST))
              >>
              >> I've bought endmills from them a few times. Quality & service has been
              >> good.
              >>
              >> cheers,
              >> c
              >> On Jan 3, 2008 10:37 AM, aldesigns <aldesigns@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> > I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was wondering
              >> > has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
              >> > in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
              >> > customs and duty work?
              >> >
              >> > thanks
              >> > Shamas
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >> Messages in this topic (4)
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >>
              >> 4c. Re: CDCO
              >> Posted by: "kben77" kben77@... kben77
              >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 12:19 pm ((PST))
              >>
              >> I've bought a bunch of stuff from them and have no complaints.
              >> Good service and decent quality stuff.
              >>
              >> > I've bought endmills from them a few times. Quality & service has been
              >> > good.
              >> >
              >> > cheers,
              >> > c
              >> > On Jan 3, 2008 10:37 AM, aldesigns <aldesigns@...> wrote:
              >> >
              >> > > I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was
              >> wondering
              >> > > has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
              >> > > in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
              >> > > customs and duty work?
              >> > >
              >> > > thanks
              >> > > Shamas
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> >
              >>
              >> Messages in this topic (4)
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >>
              >> 4d. Re: CDCO
              >> Posted by: "William Abernathy" william@... Yahuselah
              >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:01 pm ((PST))
              >>
              >> I live in the US. Great prices. Reasonable fulfillment time. No
              >> complaints.
              >>
              >> --William
              >>
              >> aldesigns wrote:
              >> > I am thinking of ordering some endmills from CDCO and I was wondering
              >> > has anyone had experience (good or bad) with this company? Also I am
              >> > in Canada has anyone else from here ordered from them how did the
              >> > customs and duty work?
              >> >
              >> > thanks
              >> > Shamas
              >>
              >> Messages in this topic (4)
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >>
              >> 5a. Re: stop breaking endmills
              >> Posted by: "cuttysark71" cuttysark71@... cuttysark71
              >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:56 pm ((PST))
              >>
              >> Shamas,
              >>
              >> I'm assuming that you are cutting the slot that does not go the full
              >> length of the work piece. If that is true, simply start at the
              >> other end of the part and end the cut against 270 degree contact
              >> between the part and the endmill.
              >>
              >> If my assumption is not correct and the slot goes the full length of
              >> the part, mill part way from one end, retract the quill, and finish
              >> the cut from the other end. I think that will solve the problem.
              >>
              >> Jeff
              >>
              >> --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn N" <sleykin@...> wrote:
              >> >
              >> > I usually kill the power feed near the end of the cut and finish
              >> by hand. It always makes nasty sounds at the end as it is pulling
              >> the metal into the cut. Also helps to tighten the gibbs a bit to
              >> keep it from pulling the table. When the slot opens, one side of
              >> the endmill is climb milling with about half the width of the
              >> cutter. It takes a very ridgid setup to do that without breaking
              >> things.
              >> > ----- Original Message -----
              >> > From: aldesigns
              >> > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:40 AM
              >> > Subject: [mill_drill] Re: stop breaking endmills
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > I am not cutting all the way through the plate maybe more accurate
              >> to
              >> > call it a trough. If it was wood you would call it a dado cut. By
              >> > breaking through I mean when the cutter reaches the end of the cut
              >> and
              >> > starts to leave the work piece where a portion of the cutter is
              >> > hitting air and the rest is still cutting steel. I use the
              >> recommended
              >> > speed for that size of endmill perhaps the feed rate is to high. I
              >> > just got a new powerfeed for the table and haven't figured out what
              >> > the dial settings 1-9 mean in terms of sfm. When I use to crank by
              >> > hand I know I would slow the feed at the end of a cut to keep the
              >> same
              >> > kind of thing from happening. Something maybe loose either the
              >> vise
              >> > or the table is allowing the cutter to push or pull work just
              >> slightly.
              >> >
              >> > shamas
              >> >
              >> > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Rexarino <rexarino@> wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > > Shamas, how are you holding the steel? When you say "breaking
              >> > through", I
              >> > > have a vision of a piece of steel clamped in a vice, with a slot
              >> > extending
              >> > > through the end of the steel, ultimately forming a U shaped
              >> > workpiece. If
              >> > > this is the scenario, the steel is deflecting into the end mill
              >> as you
              >> > > finish the cut, causing vibration and breakage.
              >> > >
              >> > > Regardless, try clamping both sides of the steel down to the
              >> table
              >> > with a
              >> > > sacrificial piece of hardboard or sheet aluminum under it to
              >> protect the
              >> > > table, rather than holding in the vice.
              >> > >
              >> > > If you are already clamping to the table rather than using a
              >> vice,
              >> > I've no
              >> > > suggestion.
              >> > >
              >> > > rexarino
              >> > >
              >> > > On Dec 31, 2007 11:19 AM, aldesigns <aldesigns@> wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > > > Hi all
              >> > > >
              >> > > > When I am cutting a slot, in this case it was 3/8" wide 1/8"
              >> deep in
              >> > > > mild steel, it cuts fine until the end where it starts to break
              >> > > > through the material. This is when the endmill starts catching
              >> on the
              >> > > > leading edge causing the work and table to vibrate slightly.
              >> in this
              >> > > > case it caused the endmill to break. it was a unused new
              >> endmill, that
              >> > > > hurts. I do tighten the jibs. So is there anything else I
              >> should be
              >> > > > doing to keep this from happening in the future? Is it a
              >> problem with
              >> > > > the operator or the machine? maybe the feed rate was too high
              >> or the
              >> > > > work wasn't held secure enough? Any insights will be greatly
              >> > appreciated.
              >> > > >
              >> > > > Thanks
              >> > > > Shamas
              >> > > >
              >> > > >
              >> > > >
              >> > > >
              >> > > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >>
              >> Messages in this topic (13)
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >> ________________________________________________________________________
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
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              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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              > 12:05 PM
              >
              >
            • ron Pat
              As the flute that is following the lead flute is forced into the side, there is another flute 180 degress across from it pulling the other way. So it balances
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 4, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                As the flute that is following the lead flute is
                forced into the side, there is another flute 180
                degress across from it pulling the other way. So it
                balances out. I know that on my dinky mini mill a 4
                flute mill cuts a lot smother with a lot less
                vibration that a 2 flute mill does.I was taught that a
                mill is “center cutting” Not “center drilling” You use
                it to get down the the depth of your next cut.

                --- Mike Nash <mn.minimill@...> wrote:

                > My understanding of the problem with slotting with a
                > 4 flute is that the
                > force of the leading tooth will push the end mill to
                > the side. With only two
                > flutes, the other flute is in the clear at this
                > time. But with 4 flutes, the
                > flute coming behind the leading flute is now being
                > forced into the side of
                > the cut, taking out more material than desired.
                >
                > Mike Nash
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "SupportOurTroops - Skip"
                >
                >
                > >I must respectfully disagree with a couple of
                > points here.
                > > As for cutting slots, there is always side
                > pressure on and end mill
                > > whether 2 or 4 flute. On a 2 flute endmill the
                > cutting forces do not
                > > equalize except for the instant that that both
                > teeth are engaged at
                > > 90° to the direction of travel. The majority of
                > the time one flute is
                > > cutting and pushing the the endmill 90° to the
                > direction of travel.
                > > With a 4 flute endmill there is always side
                > pressure. This is why
                > > you lock the table for the direction not feeding.
                > > If the slot width is critical there is a procedure
                > mentioned in the
                > > Trade Secrets book that works well. First drill
                > and ream two on
                > > size holes at the ends of the slot. Then mill the
                > center of the slot
                > > with an under sized mill. Then take cleanup passes
                > to bring the
                > > slot to the correct size.
                > > Both 2 and 4 flute endmills are available in
                > center cutting and
                > > none center cutting style. Better finish is the
                > main reason for
                > > using a 4 flute. They are generally weaker than
                > equivalent 2 flute
                > > mills because they have less metal in the middle.
                > > my2¢
                > >
                > > Skip Campbell
                > > Ft. Worth, Texas
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >> 3a. Re: End Mills
                > >> Posted by: "Robert E. Hawley"
                > roberthawley_3@... shovelop1
                > >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:23 am ((PST))
                > >>
                > >> Thanks Stan, that helped me a lot. I will give
                > them a try now with more
                > >> confidence. I just don't know how I got the idea
                > that 2 flute end mills
                > >> were for softer material. I appreciate you
                > taking the time to answer my
                > >> question so thoroughly. Bob
                > >>
                > >> From: Stan Stocker
                > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:59 AM
                > >> To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                > >> Subject: Re: [mill_drill] End Mills
                > >>
                > >> Hi Bob,
                > >>
                > >> Two flute end mills are usually end cutting, so
                > you can plunge with
                > >> them. Two flute end mills are also sometimes
                > called slot drills, as the
                > >> cutting forces equalize when cutting a slot. A
                > four flute end mill will
                > >> cut an over sized or uneven slot, as you end up
                > with two adjacent flutes
                > >> cutting, which flexes the mill. Four flute end
                > mills do nice edge work
                > >> in most materials, but they do have less
                > clearance for chips. Assuming
                > >> you do not have flood cooling to clear swarf, in
                > many softer materials
                > >> like aluminum the two flute will eject chips
                > better.
                > >>
                > >> The chip load per tooth when run "by the book" is
                > identical regardless
                > >> of the number of flutes (or teeth, tips, whatever
                > is appropriate for the
                > >> cutter in question). If the depth of cut is not
                > excessive, you would
                > >> tend to move the work past a four flute mill at
                > twice the speed you
                > >> would move it past a two flute. In a production
                > environment, maximum
                > >> material removal in the minimum time possible
                > with an acceptable finish
                > >> is how you make money.
                > >>
                > >> In a home shop, using the correct lubricant for
                > the cut is often a
                > >> bigger issue. Keeping a few flux brushes handy, a
                > wash bottle with
                > >> kerosene or WD40 for aluminum, and a small tip
                > proof can of cutting oil
                > >> handy will do more for your results than worrying
                > about optimum cutter
                > >> selection. Just remember, no plunging with four
                > flute end mills! They
                > >> can NOT center cut.
                > >>
                > >> I leave a 1/2 inch two flute in one of the mills
                > most of the time. For
                > >> a lot of the quick little tweaks and cuts it's a
                > good balance between
                > >> material removal and versatility.
                > >>
                > >> Cheers,
                > >> Stan
                > >>
                > >> shovelop1 wrote:
                > >> > I have a question, I have always assumed that 2
                > flute endmills were for
                > >> > brass, aluiminum and other soft metals. That 4
                > flute endmilss were for
                > >> > steel and all the harder alloy's can someone
                > tell me if I am making an
                > >> > error here. To my way of thinking a 2 flute
                > endmill would have a huge
                > >> > load on the teeth in even a light cut in steel
                > or stainless. If my
                > >> > thoughts are wrong can someone tell me the
                > right way to reason this.
                > >> > Thanks Bob
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Messages in this topic (5)
                > >>
                >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >>
                > >> 3b. Re: End Mills
                > >> Posted by: "Ray Livingston"
                > jagboy1964@... himykabibble
                > >> Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:15 pm ((PST))
                > >>
                > >> Bob,
                > >>
                > >> 2-flute endmills *will* work better in soft
                > materials. 4-flute
                > >> mills will tend to clog very quickly in aluminum
                > and brass.
                > >>
                > >> Regards,
                > >> Ray L.
                > >>
                > >> --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Robert E.
                > Hawley"
                > >> <roberthawley_3@...> wrote:
                > >> >
                > >> > Thanks Stan, that helped me a lot. I will give
                > them a try now with
                > >> more confidence. I just don't know how I got the
                > idea that 2 flute
                > >> end mills were for softer material. I appreciate
                > you taking the time
                > >> to answer my question so thoroughly. Bob
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > From: Stan Stocker
                > >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:59 AM
                > >> > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                > >> > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] End Mills
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > Hi Bob,
                > >> >
                > >> > Two flute end mills are usually end cutting, so
                > you can plunge with
                > >> > them. Two flute end mills are also sometimes
                > called slot drills, as
                > >> the
                > >> > cutting forces equalize when cutting a slot. A
                > four flute end mill
                > >> will
                > >> > cut an over sized or uneven slot, as you end up
                > with two adjacent
                > >> flutes
                > >> > cutting, which flexes the mill. Four flute end
                > mills do nice edge
                > >> work
                >
                === message truncated ===



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              • Mike Nash
                Let s call the flutes 1 through 4 clockwise looking down from the spindle. If we re cutting a slot (at whatever depth) due north, and flute 1 s cutting edge is
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 5, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Let's call the flutes 1 through 4 clockwise looking down from the spindle.
                  If we're cutting a slot (at whatever depth) due north, and flute 1's cutting
                  edge is at it's northernmost point of travel, then if there is any
                  deflection in the endmill itself, the endmill will be deflected westward
                  toward flute 4. This will cause additional cutting action on the west wall.
                  The endmill will be pulled away from the east wall of the cut at flute 2 and
                  there is no material to be cut on the south at flute 3. Hence, a wider slot
                  than intended may be cut. If there are no flutes at 2 and 4 then there will
                  not be that extra material removal from the west side. If you were plunging,
                  then the hole might be larger due to chatter, but the number of flutes will
                  only be an issue if you can't or won't clear the chips.

                  Mike Nash

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "ron Pat"

                  > As the flute that is following the lead flute is
                  > forced into the side, there is another flute 180
                  > degress across from it pulling the other way. So it
                  > balances out. I know that on my dinky mini mill a 4
                  > flute mill cuts a lot smother with a lot less
                  > vibration that a 2 flute mill does.I was taught that a
                  > mill is "center cutting" Not "center drilling" You use
                  > it to get down the the depth of your next cut.
                  >
                  > --- Mike Nash wrote:
                  >
                  >> My understanding of the problem with slotting with a
                  >> 4 flute is that the
                  >> force of the leading tooth will push the end mill to
                  >> the side. With only two
                  >> flutes, the other flute is in the clear at this
                  >> time. But with 4 flutes, the
                  >> flute coming behind the leading flute is now being
                  >> forced into the side of
                  >> the cut, taking out more material than desired.
                  >>
                  >> Mike Nash
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