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OT YA group (CncPRO) banning

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  • ballendo
    Hello fellow CNC ers, (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control customers
    Message 1 of 4 , May 1, 2002
      Hello fellow CNC'ers,

      (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple
      copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control
      customers may be looking...)

      <begin msg>
      Tonight I was banned from a yahoo group. The first time ever.
      Yeager Automation (YA), a group for users of CncPRO and AceConverter.
      I had been a member since its inception, and had posted quite a few
      helpful messages (according to the responses given).

      I became aware of this tonight when "My groups" did not list me as a
      member of YA. I thought it might be a yahoo blip (but maybe not), so
      I rejoined and posted the first message below. Below that are my
      posts for this evening. I left the YA group site to take a look at
      Jeff Davis's new roll-your-own-preload-ballscrews(nice!), and when I
      came back I had been banned.

      Lately a lot of YA group members have been concerned by the lack of
      support of CncPRO. Doug Yeager, the author, no longer answered direct
      group requests for help or advice with his program(s). As others
      wondered what to do, I suggested Master5 (and Mach1, its successor)
      by Art Fenerty. Art has been giving EXCELLENT support. A fact you can
      see by looking at the master5 yahoo group. You can also see the lack
      of support given in the last few months by YeagerAutomation in their
      yahoo group. (What you won't see is the messages I left recommending
      master5 to those who WERE LOOKING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE! They've been
      deleted from the archive... Whether my "other" posts will remain I
      will not know)

      So this is presented so that you may make your own determination as
      to whether you want to use CncPRO; knowing that the moderator of the
      group feels the need to censor posts, and ban active members. You can
      see that I still answered posts of members that didn't have anything
      to do with YA directly:

      I understand that some will be pleased to hear of my banning. OK. The
      facts are here posted so that others can make up their own minds
      about using CncPRO, or other YA products.

      Ballendo

      First here is the welcome message for the group, sent to all members
      upon joining:

      >Subject: Welcome to yeagerautomation
      >
      >Group discussion on products provided by Yeager Automation and
      >related issues. Talk about whatever you wish. If there are specific
      >bug or feature issues, be aware that i don't read all the posts, so
      >you may have to address me directly.
      >
      >Only one rule: NO FLAMING!
      >
      >thx,
      >doug yeager
      >yeager automation
      >
      ********** tonights' posts ******************************************

      Hello Jeff, List,

      You and others in this group might like to know that my recent
      messages were deleted and I was apparently removed from the group.
      More than a few messages were removed, and I'm not sure who did it,
      but it sure smells of censorship...

      Many of these messages were suggestions to try Master5, for Art F
      over there IS providing support like Doug USED TO...

      The latest one included the statement that "saying you are supporting
      a product is not the same as doing so..."

      THESE MESSAGES WERE RESPONSES TO OTHERS WHO, LIKE JEFFS MESSAGE
      BELOW, ARE WONDERING WHAT TO MAKE OF THE PRESENT SITUATION...

      I'd sure like to know what happened?!? Doug, do you know?

      As I keep a record of all that I post, I will wait for an answer
      here. If none is provided, I will repost my deleted messages in other
      CNC groups. (along with this "explanation" note)

      Ballendo

      P.S. As a member of over 65 groups, none of which were similarly
      affected, I DON'T think this was a Yahoo error...

      --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "jeffdavis516" <cadman@p...> wrote:
      > If Doug has time to answer your messages why can't he send one
      little
      > note to this group just to say he is around and working? I might
      > make some of us feel a little better.
      >
      > Jeff Davis
      > http://www.homecnc.info
      >
      > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
      > wrote:
      > > Hello everyone,
      > >
      > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
      > supporting
      > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
      > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
      did
      > compare
      > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is not
      > that
      > > profesional as it looks.
      > >
      > > Rien Kleinjan
      **********************************************************************
      *
      Rian,

      I am quite fond of CncPRO. I am frustrated that doug no longer feels
      the need to answer questions posed directly to him on this forum,
      which I think HE started! (I understand that he may not read it
      everyday, but weeks have gone by with no response from him...)

      Master5 is as you say limited to 8192 steps/second. It ALSO runs
      directly in windows without additional "hardware". Its successor,
      Mach1, will not/does not have the same speed limitations. And the
      user interface will be user-configurable!

      Furthermore, the Master5 CVV IS TRUE CVV, not a one-entity lookahead.
      Most important, view the master5 group messages. Look at the time
      frame between when a question is asked, and when Art himself answers
      it!

      After all, the recent threads have been largely about whether this
      was a "dead" program or not, And I'm NOT the one posting them...

      Hope this helps,

      Ballendo (saving a copy just in case)

      P.S. rather interesting to see a response to an "unlisted" message,
      don't you think?

      --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
      wrote:
      > I'm not only staring at the controls, i'm even trying to work with
      master5 ! Master5 is not fast enough to do 4096 pulses/mm at
      1500mm/min and cncpro does !
      > So if you think Master5 is better thats your choice.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: ballendo
      > To: yeagerautomation@y...
      > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:09 PM
      > Subject: [yeagerautomation] Re: support cncpro (NOT)
      >
      >
      > Don't worry?!?
      >
      > Saying you are supporting something and actually doing it are two
      > different things...
      >
      > When we have had entire threads go by with no input from Doug
      (even
      > when he was specifically asked to comment), That is
      NOT "support",
      > IMO...
      >
      > Ballendo
      >
      > P.S. With respect to master5, try similar CVV dependent files on
      > both. M5 CVV blows CncPRO away! As to the "look" of M5, the new
      > version called mach1 will be configurable to support different
      looks.
      > Besides, its the guts that matter, IMO. Unless you are staring at
      the
      > control as you are making parts...
      >
      > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
      > wrote:
      > > Hello everyone,
      > >
      > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
      > supporting
      > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
      > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
      did
      > compare
      > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is
      not
      > that
      > > profesional as it looks.
      > >
      > > Rien Kleinjan
      >
      **********************************************************************
      *

      Randy,

      If by "rapiding" you mean an axis move with MDI, then there is an
      easy explanation... The need for a jog routine to tightly integrate
      itself with the keyboard; which a rapid move to a specific location
      does not need. The extra "reads" of the keyboard status could easily
      affect the sound you hear as the motor(s) move.

      Hope this helps,

      Ballendo

      In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...> wrote:
      <snip>
      >But I found out that 20ipm jogging is not the same as 20ipm rapiding
      >(I can hear the difference in the tone the motors make) I was never
      >able to get an explanation from Doug about that.
      <snip>
      **********************************************************************
      *

      Les,

      See my previous post to Randy re losing steps. If one does not use
      the robotic-grade cable, AND if it is not constrained to a "rolling"
      motion (using instead what wire mfrs. call "tick-tock", which is like
      holding two ends of a loop and moving them together, apart, together,
      apart, etc.); you may find wire failure as early as 15000 cycles. The
      SAME cable properly used might make 300,000... a robotics-grade cable
      might make 3 million cycles.

      Worth knowing, IMO,

      Ballendo

      --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "paladinironworks"
      <paladinironworks@h...> wrote:
      > Your lead screw is 20 TPI?
      >
      > Double check steps per inch.
      >
      > You should be able to cut .06 deep at about 3 IPM I would think in
      > G10 Epoxy glass.
      > I hope you get it going, I know the feeling, my plasma cutter
      > started losing steps lately.
      >
      > Les
      **********************************************************************
      *

      Randy,

      Nearly all 3 axis controls default to xy plane for arcs (G17), BUT...

      Expressly STATING G17 IS good programming practice! It is part of a
      standard safety block, as you surmised. A cnc control should
      not "hiccup" on a G17... (so take it out if cncpro requires that you
      do so, but keep the habit of including it so you won't be surprised
      at other machines.)

      Hope this helps,

      Ballendo

      -- In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...>
      wrote:
      > At 09:58 PM 4/29/02 -0400, Ron wrote:
      >
      > >I still don't understand why you are using G17.
      > >There is nothing you describe to reguire it.
      >
      > OK, I'll leave it out. I thought that was a standard setup type of
      > command... But the less things to go wrong, the better! :-)
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > Randy
      >
      > Randy Gordon-Gilmore ,----.___________ ______________
      _________________
    • jeffdavis516
      Hi Ballendo, You know I was wondering how someone answered a message by you but I could not find the message that you sent. I had no idea that you had been
      Message 2 of 4 , May 1, 2002
        Hi Ballendo,

        You know I was wondering how someone answered a message by you but I
        could not find the message that you sent. I had no idea that you had
        been banned!!!

        Since I get people asking me about controller software from my
        website I feel I should start to look at different ones, so I'm now
        looking for a different controller software. I know that you like
        Master 5 but what do you know about DeskNCrt or the windows version
        of it?

        I consider you one of the TOP posters in this CNC area along with Jon
        Elson, Mariss and Tim Goldstein. It was mostly you guys that helped
        me to learn what I know about this today.

        It really makes me feel good when someone of your knowledge likes
        something I have done. Thanks for the complement on my pre-loaded
        ball nut design.


        Jeff Davis
        http://www.homecnc.info


        --- In mill_drill@y..., "ballendo" <ballendo@y...> wrote:
        > Hello fellow CNC'ers,
        >
        > (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple
        > copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control
        > customers may be looking...)
        >
        > <begin msg>
        > Tonight I was banned from a yahoo group. The first time ever.
        > Yeager Automation (YA), a group for users of CncPRO and
        AceConverter.
        > I had been a member since its inception, and had posted quite a few
        > helpful messages (according to the responses given).
        >
        > I became aware of this tonight when "My groups" did not list me as
        a
        > member of YA. I thought it might be a yahoo blip (but maybe not),
        so
        > I rejoined and posted the first message below. Below that are my
        > posts for this evening. I left the YA group site to take a look at
        > Jeff Davis's new roll-your-own-preload-ballscrews(nice!), and when
        I
        > came back I had been banned.
        >
        <Snipped very long message below>__
      • snorkelca
        Gee of all the nerve,it just shows to go ya,that things are not always the way they seem. William . ... AceConverter. ... direct ... can ... can ... The ...
        Message 3 of 4 , May 1, 2002
          Gee of all the nerve,it just shows to go ya,that things are not always
          the way they seem. William .

          --- In mill_drill@y..., "ballendo" <ballendo@y...> wrote:
          > Hello fellow CNC'ers,
          >
          > (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple
          > copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control
          > customers may be looking...)
          >
          > <begin msg>
          > Tonight I was banned from a yahoo group. The first time ever.
          > Yeager Automation (YA), a group for users of CncPRO and
          AceConverter.
          > I had been a member since its inception, and had posted quite a few
          > helpful messages (according to the responses given).
          >
          > I became aware of this tonight when "My groups" did not list me as a
          > member of YA. I thought it might be a yahoo blip (but maybe not), so
          > I rejoined and posted the first message below. Below that are my
          > posts for this evening. I left the YA group site to take a look at
          > Jeff Davis's new roll-your-own-preload-ballscrews(nice!), and when I
          > came back I had been banned.
          >
          > Lately a lot of YA group members have been concerned by the lack of
          > support of CncPRO. Doug Yeager, the author, no longer answered
          direct
          > group requests for help or advice with his program(s). As others
          > wondered what to do, I suggested Master5 (and Mach1, its successor)
          > by Art Fenerty. Art has been giving EXCELLENT support. A fact you
          can
          > see by looking at the master5 yahoo group. You can also see the lack
          > of support given in the last few months by YeagerAutomation in their
          > yahoo group. (What you won't see is the messages I left recommending
          > master5 to those who WERE LOOKING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE! They've been
          > deleted from the archive... Whether my "other" posts will remain I
          > will not know)
          >
          > So this is presented so that you may make your own determination as
          > to whether you want to use CncPRO; knowing that the moderator of the
          > group feels the need to censor posts, and ban active members. You
          can
          > see that I still answered posts of members that didn't have anything
          > to do with YA directly:
          >
          > I understand that some will be pleased to hear of my banning. OK.
          The
          > facts are here posted so that others can make up their own minds
          > about using CncPRO, or other YA products.
          >
          > Ballendo
          >
          > First here is the welcome message for the group, sent to all members
          > upon joining:
          >
          > >Subject: Welcome to yeagerautomation
          > >
          > >Group discussion on products provided by Yeager Automation and
          > >related issues. Talk about whatever you wish. If there are specific
          > >bug or feature issues, be aware that i don't read all the posts, so
          > >you may have to address me directly.
          > >
          > >Only one rule: NO FLAMING!
          > >
          > >thx,
          > >doug yeager
          > >yeager automation
          > >
          > ********** tonights' posts
          ******************************************
          >
          > Hello Jeff, List,
          >
          > You and others in this group might like to know that my recent
          > messages were deleted and I was apparently removed from the group.
          > More than a few messages were removed, and I'm not sure who did it,
          > but it sure smells of censorship...
          >
          > Many of these messages were suggestions to try Master5, for Art F
          > over there IS providing support like Doug USED TO...
          >
          > The latest one included the statement that "saying you are
          supporting
          > a product is not the same as doing so..."
          >
          > THESE MESSAGES WERE RESPONSES TO OTHERS WHO, LIKE JEFFS MESSAGE
          > BELOW, ARE WONDERING WHAT TO MAKE OF THE PRESENT SITUATION...
          >
          > I'd sure like to know what happened?!? Doug, do you know?
          >
          > As I keep a record of all that I post, I will wait for an answer
          > here. If none is provided, I will repost my deleted messages in
          other
          > CNC groups. (along with this "explanation" note)
          >
          > Ballendo
          >
          > P.S. As a member of over 65 groups, none of which were similarly
          > affected, I DON'T think this was a Yahoo error...
          >
          > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "jeffdavis516" <cadman@p...> wrote:
          > > If Doug has time to answer your messages why can't he send one
          > little
          > > note to this group just to say he is around and working? I might
          > > make some of us feel a little better.
          > >
          > > Jeff Davis
          > > http://www.homecnc.info
          > >
          > > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > Hello everyone,
          > > >
          > > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
          > > supporting
          > > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
          > > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
          > did
          > > compare
          > > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is
          not
          > > that
          > > > profesional as it looks.
          > > >
          > > > Rien Kleinjan
          >
          **********************************************************************
          > *
          > Rian,
          >
          > I am quite fond of CncPRO. I am frustrated that doug no longer feels
          > the need to answer questions posed directly to him on this forum,
          > which I think HE started! (I understand that he may not read it
          > everyday, but weeks have gone by with no response from him...)
          >
          > Master5 is as you say limited to 8192 steps/second. It ALSO runs
          > directly in windows without additional "hardware". Its successor,
          > Mach1, will not/does not have the same speed limitations. And the
          > user interface will be user-configurable!
          >
          > Furthermore, the Master5 CVV IS TRUE CVV, not a one-entity
          lookahead.
          > Most important, view the master5 group messages. Look at the time
          > frame between when a question is asked, and when Art himself answers
          > it!
          >
          > After all, the recent threads have been largely about whether this
          > was a "dead" program or not, And I'm NOT the one posting them...
          >
          > Hope this helps,
          >
          > Ballendo (saving a copy just in case)
          >
          > P.S. rather interesting to see a response to an "unlisted" message,
          > don't you think?
          >
          > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
          > wrote:
          > > I'm not only staring at the controls, i'm even trying to work with
          > master5 ! Master5 is not fast enough to do 4096 pulses/mm at
          > 1500mm/min and cncpro does !
          > > So if you think Master5 is better thats your choice.
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: ballendo
          > > To: yeagerautomation@y...
          > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:09 PM
          > > Subject: [yeagerautomation] Re: support cncpro (NOT)
          > >
          > >
          > > Don't worry?!?
          > >
          > > Saying you are supporting something and actually doing it are two
          > > different things...
          > >
          > > When we have had entire threads go by with no input from Doug
          > (even
          > > when he was specifically asked to comment), That is
          > NOT "support",
          > > IMO...
          > >
          > > Ballendo
          > >
          > > P.S. With respect to master5, try similar CVV dependent files on
          > > both. M5 CVV blows CncPRO away! As to the "look" of M5, the new
          > > version called mach1 will be configurable to support different
          > looks.
          > > Besides, its the guts that matter, IMO. Unless you are staring at
          > the
          > > control as you are making parts...
          > >
          > > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > Hello everyone,
          > > >
          > > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
          > > supporting
          > > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
          > > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
          > did
          > > compare
          > > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is
          > not
          > > that
          > > > profesional as it looks.
          > > >
          > > > Rien Kleinjan
          > >
          >
          **********************************************************************
          > *
          >
          > Randy,
          >
          > If by "rapiding" you mean an axis move with MDI, then there is an
          > easy explanation... The need for a jog routine to tightly integrate
          > itself with the keyboard; which a rapid move to a specific location
          > does not need. The extra "reads" of the keyboard status could easily
          > affect the sound you hear as the motor(s) move.
          >
          > Hope this helps,
          >
          > Ballendo
          >
          > In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...>
          wrote:
          > <snip>
          > >But I found out that 20ipm jogging is not the same as 20ipm
          rapiding
          > >(I can hear the difference in the tone the motors make) I was never
          > >able to get an explanation from Doug about that.
          > <snip>
          >
          **********************************************************************
          > *
          >
          > Les,
          >
          > See my previous post to Randy re losing steps. If one does not use
          > the robotic-grade cable, AND if it is not constrained to a "rolling"
          > motion (using instead what wire mfrs. call "tick-tock", which is
          like
          > holding two ends of a loop and moving them together, apart,
          together,
          > apart, etc.); you may find wire failure as early as 15000 cycles.
          The
          > SAME cable properly used might make 300,000... a robotics-grade
          cable
          > might make 3 million cycles.
          >
          > Worth knowing, IMO,
          >
          > Ballendo
          >
          > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "paladinironworks"
          > <paladinironworks@h...> wrote:
          > > Your lead screw is 20 TPI?
          > >
          > > Double check steps per inch.
          > >
          > > You should be able to cut .06 deep at about 3 IPM I would think in
          > > G10 Epoxy glass.
          > > I hope you get it going, I know the feeling, my plasma cutter
          > > started losing steps lately.
          > >
          > > Les
          >
          **********************************************************************
          > *
          >
          > Randy,
          >
          > Nearly all 3 axis controls default to xy plane for arcs (G17),
          BUT...
          >
          > Expressly STATING G17 IS good programming practice! It is part of a
          > standard safety block, as you surmised. A cnc control should
          > not "hiccup" on a G17... (so take it out if cncpro requires that you
          > do so, but keep the habit of including it so you won't be surprised
          > at other machines.)
          >
          > Hope this helps,
          >
          > Ballendo
          >
          > -- In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...>
          > wrote:
          > > At 09:58 PM 4/29/02 -0400, Ron wrote:
          > >
          > > >I still don't understand why you are using G17.
          > > >There is nothing you describe to reguire it.
          > >
          > > OK, I'll leave it out. I thought that was a standard setup type of
          > > command... But the less things to go wrong, the better! :-)
          > >
          > > Best regards,
          > >
          > > Randy
          > >
          > > Randy Gordon-Gilmore ,----.___________ ______________
          > _________________
        • snorkelca
          Gee of all the nerve,it just shows to go ya,that things are not always the way they seem. William . ... AceConverter.
          Message 4 of 4 , May 1, 2002
            Gee of all the nerve,it just shows to go ya,that things are not
            always
            the way they seem. William .

            --- In mill_drill@y..., "ballendo" <ballendo@y...> wrote:
            > Hello fellow CNC'ers,
            >
            > (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple
            > copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control
            > customers may be looking...)
            >
            > <begin msg>
            > Tonight I was banned from a yahoo group. The first time ever.
            > Yeager Automation (YA), a group for users of CncPRO and
            AceConverter.
            > <heavy snip off>
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.