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Re: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks

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  • Richard Kleinhenz
    I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2 reamer blank. You
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 31, 2009
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      I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)

      On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:

      >Richard,
      >
      >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
      >chuck, I think.<
      >
      >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
      >
      >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
      >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
      >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
      >my work piece to center.
      >
      >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
      >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
      >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
      >round or triangular stock.

      --
      Best regards,
      Rich
      =============================================
      Richard Kleinhenz
      http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
      http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
      =============================================
    • C4C
      Richard, Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw Set True chuck. A 3 jaw Set True chuck is
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 1, 2010
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        Richard,

        Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.

        A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.

        Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.

        C4C

        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:
        >
        > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
        >
        > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
        >
        > >Richard,
        > >
        > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
        > >chuck, I think.<
        > >
        > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
        > >
        > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
        > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
        > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
        > >my work piece to center.
        > >
        > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
        > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
        > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
        > >round or triangular stock.
        >
        > --
        > Best regards,
        > Rich
        > =============================================
        > Richard Kleinhenz
        > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
        > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
        > =============================================
        >
      • EdwinB
        I don t own a Set True chuck, but it seems to me that setting it for dead-on is a bit more work if you are chucking up pieces of various sizes. If I
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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          I don't own a 'Set True' chuck, but it seems to me that setting it for dead-on is a bit more work if you are chucking up pieces of various sizes. If I understand the operation correctly, you have to tighten the chuck on the workpiece, loosen the chuck mounting screws, adjust the centering screws, and then re-tighten the mounting screws. To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.

          Regards,
          Ed

          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@...> wrote:
          >
          > Richard,
          >
          > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
          >
          > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
          >
          > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
          >
          > C4C
          >
          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
          > >
          > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
          > >
          > > >Richard,
          > > >
          > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
          > > >chuck, I think.<
          > > >
          > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
          > > >
          > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
          > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
          > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
          > > >my work piece to center.
          > > >
          > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
          > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
          > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
          > > >round or triangular stock.
          > >
          > > --
          > > Best regards,
          > > Rich
          > > =============================================
          > > Richard Kleinhenz
          > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
          > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
          > > =============================================
          > >
          >
        • Corey Renner
          For one item, yes, the 4-jaw will be faster. The beauty of the set-tru three-jaw is that if you are making multiple parts, you should be able to do the
          Message 4 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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            For one item, yes, the 4-jaw will be faster.  The beauty of the set-tru three-jaw is that if you are making multiple parts, you should be able to do the set-tru part once and ALL subsequent identcal-diameter parts will also be tru by only opening and closing the 3-jaw chuck itself and not messing with the set-tru portion.
             
            cheers,
            c

            On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:37 AM, EdwinB <n5kzw@...> wrote:
             

             To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.

            Regards,
            Ed

          • Druid Noibn
            Hi Ed,   I agree with you and it seems we have a misunderstanding here.   The Set Tru (somebody s trademark ) design is simply to center the chuck -
            Message 5 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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              Hi Ed,
               
              I agree with you and it seems we have a misunderstanding here.
               
              The "Set Tru" (somebody's trademark <smile>) design is simply to center the chuck - the scroll is presumed to be "true" and as such one doesn't typically tweak it every time one changes the size of the work being turned.  
               
              I can't say if the QC on the scroll and jaws is any better than a non "set-tru" chuck (assuming the same brand) but the reports are that the chucks are real nice if expensive. 
               
              Take care,
              DBN

              --- On Sat, 1/2/10, EdwinB <n5kzw@...> wrote:

              From: EdwinB <n5kzw@...>
              Subject: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks
              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 10:37 AM

               
              I don't own a 'Set True' chuck, but it seems to me that setting it for dead-on is a bit more work if you are chucking up pieces of various sizes. If I understand the operation correctly, you have to tighten the chuck on the workpiece, loosen the chuck mounting screws, adjust the centering screws, and then re-tighten the mounting screws. To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.

              Regards,
              Ed

              --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@. ..> wrote:
              >
              > Richard,
              >
              > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
              >
              > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
              >
              > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
              >
              > C4C
              >
              > --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent- jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
              > >
              > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
              > >
              > > >Richard,
              > > >
              > > >>A 4-independent- jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
              > > >chuck, I think.<
              > > >
              > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
              > > >
              > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
              > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
              > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
              > > >my work piece to center.
              > > >
              > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
              > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
              > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
              > > >round or triangular stock.
              > >
              > > --
              > > Best regards,
              > > Rich
              > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ======
              > > Richard Kleinhenz
              > > http://beautifulhan dmadepens. com
              > > http://penmakersgui ld.com/browse. php?gallery= kleinhenzr
              > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ======
              > >
              >


            • Philip Burman
              For one item if you have to remove your 3 jaw to mount a 4 jaw then a set-true (or equivalent) is also quicker. In any case a set-true can often be
              Message 6 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                For one item if you have to remove your 3 jaw to mount a 4 jaw then a set-true (or equivalent) is also quicker.

                In any case a set-true can often be easier/quicker than a 4 jaw (depending on skill) because the set screws are only tensioned for adjusting postion not for holding the work piece.

                Phil

                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
                >
                > For one item, yes, the 4-jaw will be faster. The beauty of the set-tru
                > three-jaw is that if you are making multiple parts, you should be able to do
                > the set-tru part once and ALL subsequent identcal-diameter parts will also
                > be tru by only opening and closing the 3-jaw chuck itself and not messing
                > with the set-tru portion.
                >
                > cheers,
                > c
                >
                > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:37 AM, EdwinB <n5kzw@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > > Ed
                > >
                >
              • nordhs
                C4C, I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I m going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time.
                Message 7 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                  C4C,
                  I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.

                  Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.

                  Steve



                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Richard,
                  >
                  > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                  >
                  > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                  >
                  > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                  >
                  > C4C
                  >
                  > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                  > >
                  > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >Richard,
                  > > >
                  > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                  > > >chuck, I think.<
                  > > >
                  > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                  > > >
                  > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                  > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                  > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                  > > >my work piece to center.
                  > > >
                  > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                  > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                  > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                  > > >round or triangular stock.
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Best regards,
                  > > Rich
                  > > =============================================
                  > > Richard Kleinhenz
                  > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                  > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                  > > =============================================
                  > >
                  >
                • wildernessknife
                  Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don t disapoint. The main reason I believed I d need to invest in a 4
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                    Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don't disapoint. The main reason I believed I'd need to invest in a 4 jaw is that alot of the free material stock I pick up is in the form of square, hex and octagon configuration. and I believed I would need no less than a 4 jaw chuck to hold this stuff. Wes

                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "nordhs" <snordha1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > C4C,
                    > I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.
                    >
                    > Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Richard,
                    > >
                    > > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                    > >
                    > > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                    > >
                    > > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                    > >
                    > > C4C
                    > >
                    > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                    > > >
                    > > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >Richard,
                    > > > >
                    > > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                    > > > >chuck, I think.<
                    > > > >
                    > > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                    > > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                    > > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                    > > > >my work piece to center.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                    > > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                    > > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                    > > > >round or triangular stock.
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > Best regards,
                    > > > Rich
                    > > > =============================================
                    > > > Richard Kleinhenz
                    > > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                    > > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                    > > > =============================================
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • C4C
                    Wes, Based on your requirements a 4 jaw chuck is definitely the way to go. I apologize for all of the BS that you got in response to your quest for
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                      Wes,

                      Based on your requirements a 4 jaw chuck is definitely the way to go.

                      I apologize for all of the BS that you got in response to your quest for information.

                      C4C

                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "wildernessknife" <wildernessknife@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don't disapoint. The main reason I believed I'd need to invest in a 4 jaw is that alot of the free material stock I pick up is in the form of square, hex and octagon configuration. and I believed I would need no less than a 4 jaw chuck to hold this stuff. Wes
                      >
                      > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "nordhs" <snordha1@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > C4C,
                      > > I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.
                      > >
                      > > Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.
                      > >
                      > > Steve
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Richard,
                      > > >
                      > > > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                      > > >
                      > > > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                      > > >
                      > > > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                      > > >
                      > > > C4C
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >Richard,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                      > > > > >chuck, I think.<
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                      > > > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                      > > > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                      > > > > >my work piece to center.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                      > > > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                      > > > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                      > > > > >round or triangular stock.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --
                      > > > > Best regards,
                      > > > > Rich
                      > > > > =============================================
                      > > > > Richard Kleinhenz
                      > > > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                      > > > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                      > > > > =============================================
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Stan Stocker
                      Hi Wes, It s worth noting that hex stock can not be readily held in a four jaw chuck. For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jan 3, 2010
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                        Hi Wes,

                        It's worth noting that hex stock can not be readily held in a four jaw
                        chuck.

                        For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others
                        they are wrong I'll just say that yes, I know about sleeves, special
                        jaws, grinding/milling off the points on hex stock to hold it in a four
                        jaw, and all other sorts of cobbled up work arounds. I do not agree
                        with those that say that gripping with two jaws while simply positioning
                        and kind of gripping with the two jaws that are on points is fine. I've
                        done it when I had to and didn't find it to be a really pleasant way for
                        getting things done. Works (sort off, usually) if all you have is a
                        four jaw though. Also useful if you must turn an offset boss on hex
                        stock, but it isn't the most solid workholding method I've ever run into.

                        But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a
                        four jaw and hex stock don't work together.

                        Happy new year to the happy folks,
                        Stan

                        wildernessknife wrote:
                        > Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don't disapoint. The main reason I believed I'd need to invest in a 4 jaw is that alot of the free material stock I pick up is in the form of square, hex and octagon configuration. and I believed I would need no less than a 4 jaw chuck to hold this stuff. Wes
                        >
                        >
                      • C4C
                        Wes, You are on the right track with your choice of a 4 jaw chuck for your work. Good luck with your venture and don t let the Lght Weights confuse you. Stan,
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jan 3, 2010
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                          Wes,

                          You are on the right track with your choice of a 4 jaw chuck for your work. Good luck with your venture and don't let the Lght Weights confuse you.

                          Stan,

                          Welcome to the discussion.

                          I have over 45+ years of machine shop experience in shops ranging from line-shaft where all machines were power by a single motor to Boeing Military Aircraft where I was 'A lead' over the machine shop.

                          If it's been done on a lathe or mill then I have done it with perfection. I'm now retired but I still have a shop with functional machinery that I use occasionally when my health allows.
                          ======================================================================

                          Let's discuss:

                          >>For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others they are wrong<<

                          I want to thank you for adding another totally ignorant statement to the stack.

                          >>But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a four jaw and hex stock don't work together.<<

                          WRONG! A 4 jaw chuck can securely grip on hex stock. Two opposing flats and two opposing points.
                          ======================================================================

                          Steve,

                          Your contribution of ignorant statements will be hard to out do.

                          >>I own a Buck Set True<<

                          WRONG! You own a Buck "Adjust Tru" lathe chuck.

                          DBN, a knowledgable contributor, correctly noted that I was using 'Set True' as being a type of chuck as opposed to it being a brand specific name. When a manufacturer is the first to release a product that is widely accepted by the market then their product name will become the standard. For instance; Cresent Wrench is widely used in reference to all open end adjustable wrenches.
                          ======================================================================

                          >>It is a great tool.<<

                          Yes you are correct. I have one for every spindle in my shop which includes all of my indexing heads. Most of them were purchased new through eBay auctions where I paid less than twenty cents on the dollar.

                          Both DBN and myself committed about them being expensive but they need not be. If it's a Buck "Set Tru", Pratt Burnerd "Set True" or Yuasa 585 series "Accu Chuck" then it's a quality chuck depending on it's condition. I own at least two of each and I can truthly say that I have no preference over the three brands.
                          ======================================================================

                          >>The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter.<<

                          So what? You spend more time truing a "specific diameter" in a 4 jaw chuck and when the "specific diameter" is removed you have NOTHING.
                          ======================================================================

                          >>This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls<<

                          Do you actually believe that any given one of the three fixed jaws will inflict more wear on the scroll than the other two?

                          A frequent aerosol application Molybdenum Disulfide on fixed jaws and scroll and wear is not a problem. Frequent: once a week in production applications.
                          ======================================================================

                          >>any jaw irregularities.<<

                          You started with jaws in known condition and it's doubtful that their condition will change unless they're damaged by operator error.
                          ======================================================================

                          >>With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period.<<

                          So what? The exact same statement can be made about 3 jaw 'Set True' chucks. The only difference is that the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck will retain center while the 4 jaw chuck will require a complete re-centering process when you remove your work piece.
                          ======================================================================

                          >>Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure.<<

                          Do you therorize that the amateurs find the 4 screws on the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck to be simpler than the 4 screws on a 4 jaw chuck?
                          ======================================================================

                          >>However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water.<<

                          This is without a doubt the most stupid statement of all. Going Double Down on Richards statement is like DUMMER coming to the recue of DUMB.

                          Both types of chucks use the exact same mechanical process for truing a round work piece yet you believe that one is superior to the other.

                          The truth is that both types chucks, being equal in quality, can achieve the same degree of accuracy. However the starting error will always be far less with a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                          ======================================================================

                          Stan, Steve,

                          If you want to engage in the battle of smart then I would suggest that you bring ammunition with you. Your vague and vaporous statements may impress the shallow minds in the reading audience but they're very transparent to those of whom HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT.

                          C4C

                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Stan Stocker <skstocker@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Wes,
                          >
                          > It's worth noting that hex stock can not be readily held in a four jaw
                          > chuck.
                          >
                          > For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others
                          > they are wrong I'll just say that yes, I know about sleeves, special
                          > jaws, grinding/milling off the points on hex stock to hold it in a four
                          > jaw, and all other sorts of cobbled up work arounds. I do not agree
                          > with those that say that gripping with two jaws while simply positioning
                          > and kind of gripping with the two jaws that are on points is fine. I've
                          > done it when I had to and didn't find it to be a really pleasant way for
                          > getting things done. Works (sort off, usually) if all you have is a
                          > four jaw though. Also useful if you must turn an offset boss on hex
                          > stock, but it isn't the most solid workholding method I've ever run into.
                          >
                          > But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a
                          > four jaw and hex stock don't work together.
                          >
                          > Happy new year to the happy folks,
                          > Stan
                          >
                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "nordhs" <snordha1@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > C4C,
                          > I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.
                          >
                          > Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.
                          >
                          > Steve
                          >
                          >
                        • nordhs
                          Dearest CNC4cheap, Comments in-line: ... I don t know the answer to this but wouldn t soft metals like brass and aluminum deform more if you clamp them
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jan 4, 2010
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                            Dearest CNC4cheap,
                            Comments in-line:

                            <snip>

                            >
                            > I want to thank you for adding another totally ignorant statement to the stack.
                            >
                            > >>But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a four jaw and hex stock don't work together.<<
                            >
                            > WRONG! A 4 jaw chuck can securely grip on hex stock. Two opposing flats and two opposing points.


                            I don't know the answer to this but wouldn't soft metals like brass and aluminum deform more if you clamp them on their points? I always try to put pressure on flat sections, not points.



                            > ======================================================================
                            >
                            > Steve,
                            >
                            > Your contribution of ignorant statements will be hard to out do.
                            >
                            > >>I own a Buck Set True<<
                            >
                            > WRONG! You own a Buck "Adjust Tru" lathe chuck.
                            >
                            > DBN, a knowledgable contributor, correctly noted that I was using 'Set True' as being a type of chuck as opposed to it being a brand specific name. When a manufacturer is the first to release a product that is widely accepted by the market then their product name will become the standard. For instance; Cresent Wrench is widely used in reference to all open end adjustable wrenches.
                            >

                            Yes, I know my Buck is called an 'Adjust Tru' but rather than use a brand name in a generic discussion and add another term, I used the generic name.

                            <snip>
                            ======================================================================
                            >
                            > >>The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter.<<
                            >
                            > So what? You spend more time truing a "specific diameter" in a 4 jaw chuck and when the "specific diameter" is removed you have NOTHING.
                            >

                            Maybe I'm using my Buck incorrectly. Are you advocating readjusting the set screws each time you chuck work? If so, I'll agree that it is as accurate as a 4 jaw since you are now centering the work each time and it will start closer than a 4 jaw.

                            <snip>

                            ======================================================================
                            >
                            > >>With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period.<<
                            >
                            > So what? The exact same statement can be made about 3 jaw 'Set True' chucks. The only difference is that the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck will retain center while the 4 jaw chuck will require a complete re-centering process when you remove your work piece.

                            I believe that you are advocating adjusting the Set True each time from this and the next statement. The hobbyists I know (not pros like you) adjust the Set True once, check it occasionally and assume it centers. Therefore it is far faster and accurate enough for what we do, but not as accurate as centering the work in a 4 jaw.
                            > ======================================================================
                            >
                            > >>Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure.<<
                            >
                            > Do you therorize that the amateurs find the 4 screws on the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck to be simpler than the 4 screws on a 4 jaw chuck?
                            > ======================================================================
                            >
                            > >>However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water.<<

                            Let me add 'unless you readjust the 'Set True' each time in the same manner as a 4 jaw is centered.


                            >
                            > This is without a doubt the most stupid statement of all. Going Double Down on Richards statement is like DUMMER coming to the recue of DUMB.

                            It is not nice to make this a personal attack. OK, so I'm an idiot and you are brilliant shaft of light shining out when all else is dark. I'm comfortable with that if you are.

                            >
                            > Both types of chucks use the exact same mechanical process for truing a round work piece yet you believe that one is superior to the other.
                            >
                            > The truth is that both types chucks, being equal in quality, can achieve the same degree of accuracy. However the starting error will always be far less with a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.

                            Again, an absolute TRUTH (put it on a pedestal) provided you readjust the 'Set True' set screws each time.

                            Steve
                            P.S. I think it is 'Dumb and Dumber'.
                          • Richard Kleinhenz
                            ... Now there s a nice value statement ;-) Note that the original question was NOT what type of chuck to get... ;-) Anyway - I wish I had infinite fund and I
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jan 4, 2010
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                              On 1/3/2010 at 7:53 AM C4C wrote:

                              >I apologize for all of the BS that you got in response to your quest for
                              >information.

                              Now there's a nice value statement ;-) Note that the original question was NOT what type of chuck to get... ;-)

                              Anyway - I wish I had infinite fund and I would surely get a quality set-true 3-jaw for myself, in addition to the 4-jaw I have. The set-true would replace the std. 3-jaw and would take over some of the 4-jaw's duties. For me, the 4-jaw is used when I have to rechuck something and need concentricity, or when I need to grab an odd-shaped object.

                              I phrased my first post poorly, sorry about that. 'nuff said

                              --
                              Best regards,
                              Rich
                              =============================================
                              Richard Kleinhenz
                              http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                              http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                              =============================================
                            • Jim S.
                              Don t want to PO anybody, but by learning and experience, the four jaw and the set true type three jaw take just as long to set up--for the FIRST part. After
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                Don't want to PO anybody, but by learning and experience, the four jaw and the set true type three jaw take just as long to set up--for the FIRST part. After that, the set true is faster for parts of the same diameter. I have never had a set true chuck in my home shop since I don't do much multiple part work, and they are pricey. Better a 3 jaw with machineable top jaws. In production work without collets, use the set true or a standard 3 jaw with bored soft jaws to match the diameter, and for best accuracy don't break down the setup until you're done.
                                 
                                Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff)
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