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lathe chucks

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  • wildernessknife
    Hi all, about a year ago I fell into possesion of a new grizzly 9729, which I ave been slowly learning to use for my knife making business. Most of the work
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 26, 2009
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      Hi all, about a year ago I fell into possesion of a new grizzly 9729, which I ave been slowly learning to use for my knife making business. Most of the work has been on the mill part of this machine, but I want to start doing more work with the lathe. It has a 5 inch 3 jaw chuck which bolts to a permanent spindle backplate and the runout is not to bad, however, I want to get the best accuracy possible from myself and this machine, so I've been looking into the 4 jaw chucks in the 6 to 8 inch range. My question is this , is an 8 inch chuck to large for this machine? should I stay with a chuck closer to the 5inch size? and will I be looking at the chucks with the flat back requiring an adapter plate? Any advice would be appreciated. Wes
    • C4C
      Wes, Regarding chuck accuracy: you need to get what is generically referred to as a Set True chuck. A set true chuck mounts to a back plate that has a spud
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 26, 2009
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        Wes,

        Regarding chuck accuracy: you need to get what is generically referred to as a 'Set True' chuck. A set true chuck mounts to a back plate that has a spud that extends beyond the mounting surface. The set true chuck has 4 set screws (pointed to center) that are used to change the chuck alignment. You perform the truing process with the mounting bolts being lightly snugged. Lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$

        C4C

        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "wildernessknife" <wildernessknife@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all, about a year ago I fell into possesion of a new grizzly 9729, which I ave been slowly learning to use for my knife making business. Most of the work has been on the mill part of this machine, but I want to start doing more work with the lathe. It has a 5 inch 3 jaw chuck which bolts to a permanent spindle backplate and the runout is not to bad, however, I want to get the best accuracy possible from myself and this machine, so I've been looking into the 4 jaw chucks in the 6 to 8 inch range. My question is this , is an 8 inch chuck to large for this machine? should I stay with a chuck closer to the 5inch size? and will I be looking at the chucks with the flat back requiring an adapter plate? Any advice would be appreciated. Wes
        >
      • Richard Kleinhenz
        A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw chuck, I think. His main question is whether to get a 6 or 8 ... I don t know the
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 27, 2009
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          A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw chuck, I think. His main question is whether to get a 6" or 8"... I don't know the specific machine, so can't really comment. I would say the work should dictate the chuck size. The jaws will protrude from the chuck body - but I see the G9729 has a 16.5" swing so the 8" should really fit easily, dimensionally. It has a 3/4 HP 110V motor according to the specs on the Grizzly site, I have no idea what sort of electronics it has if any and whether it'd trip the breaker every time it starts, at a higher speed...

          On 12/27/2009 at 5:43 AM C4C wrote:

          >Wes,
          >
          >Regarding chuck accuracy: you need to get what is generically referred to
          >as a 'Set True' chuck. A set true chuck mounts to a back plate that has a
          >spud that extends beyond the mounting surface. The set true chuck has 4
          >set screws (pointed to center) that are used to change the chuck
          >alignment. You perform the truing process with the mounting bolts being
          >lightly snugged. Lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$

          --
          Best regards,
          Rich
          =============================================
          Richard Kleinhenz
          http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
          http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
          =============================================
        • Glenn N
          I have an 8 4 jaw on my 12 A/C that I use occasionally with no issues. Just a plain back that I made a back plate for. ... From: Richard Kleinhenz
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 27, 2009
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            I have an 8" 4 jaw on my 12" A/C that I use occasionally with no issues.
            Just a plain back that I made a back plate for.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Richard Kleinhenz" <richk@...>
            To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 9:05 AM
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks


            A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw chuck,
            I think. His main question is whether to get a 6" or 8"... I don't know
            the specific machine, so can't really comment. I would say the work should
            dictate the chuck size. The jaws will protrude from the chuck body - but I
            see the G9729 has a 16.5" swing so the 8" should really fit easily,
            dimensionally. It has a 3/4 HP 110V motor according to the specs on the
            Grizzly site, I have no idea what sort of electronics it has if any and
            whether it'd trip the breaker every time it starts, at a higher speed...

            On 12/27/2009 at 5:43 AM C4C wrote:

            >Wes,
            >
            >Regarding chuck accuracy: you need to get what is generically referred to
            >as a 'Set True' chuck. A set true chuck mounts to a back plate that has a
            >spud that extends beyond the mounting surface. The set true chuck has 4
            >set screws (pointed to center) that are used to change the chuck
            >alignment. You perform the truing process with the mounting bolts being
            >lightly snugged. Lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$

            --
            Best regards,
            Rich
            =============================================
            Richard Kleinhenz
            http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
            http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
            =============================================



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • C4C
            Richard, ... You apparently have no idea of what a Set True lathe chuck is. A Set True lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws. Where you
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 28, 2009
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              Richard,

              >A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw chuck, I think.<

              You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.

              A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws. Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and my work piece to center.

              When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex, round or triangular stock.

              C4C


              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:
              >
              > A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw chuck, I think. His main question is whether to get a 6" or 8"... I don't know the specific machine, so can't really comment. I would say the work should dictate the chuck size. The jaws will protrude from the chuck body - but I see the G9729 has a 16.5" swing so the 8" should really fit easily, dimensionally. It has a 3/4 HP 110V motor according to the specs on the Grizzly site, I have no idea what sort of electronics it has if any and whether it'd trip the breaker every time it starts, at a higher speed...
              >
              > On 12/27/2009 at 5:43 AM C4C wrote:
              >
              > >Wes,
              > >
              > >Regarding chuck accuracy: you need to get what is generically referred to
              > >as a 'Set True' chuck. A set true chuck mounts to a back plate that has a
              > >spud that extends beyond the mounting surface. The set true chuck has 4
              > >set screws (pointed to center) that are used to change the chuck
              > >alignment. You perform the truing process with the mounting bolts being
              > >lightly snugged. Lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$
              >
              > --
              > Best regards,
              > Rich
              > =============================================
              > Richard Kleinhenz
              > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
              > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
              > =============================================
              >
            • Philip Burman
              You can achieve the same with a standard 3 jaw, if it has backplate, with a little more effort and a rubber mallet. Just open the mounting bolt holes on the
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 28, 2009
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                You can achieve the same with a standard 3 jaw, if it has backplate, with a little more effort and a rubber mallet. Just open the mounting bolt holes on the backplate a touch, then you are ready to go as per the "Set True".

                Phil

                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wes,
                >
                > Regarding chuck accuracy: you need to get what is generically referred to as a 'Set True' chuck. A set true chuck mounts to a back plate that has a spud that extends beyond the mounting surface. The set true chuck has 4 set screws (pointed to center) that are used to change the chuck alignment. You perform the truing process with the mounting bolts being lightly snugged. Lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$
                >
                > C4C
              • gd.marsh
                Phil, All my chucks have a slight pocket on the back of the chuck body that the back plate is supposed to register into snugly .. It seems to me you would have
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 28, 2009
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                  Phil,
                  All my chucks have a slight pocket on the back of the chuck body that the back plate is supposed to register into snugly .. It seems to me you would have to turn the register diameter down on the back plate to allow you to move the chuck around on the plate. Agreed, if that was done the chuck body could then be 'nudged' into a more accurate position, but with only the back plate bolts to hold it there, it seems to me it wouldn't stay put for very long once cutting forces were applied.

                  From: Philip Burman <philip.burman@...>
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:17:37 PM
                  Subject: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks

                   

                  You can achieve the same with a standard 3 jaw, if it has backplate, with a little more effort and a rubber mallet. Just open the mounting bolt holes on the backplate a touch, then you are ready to go as per the "Set True".

                  Phil


                • Joe Hood
                  Don t neglect weight. A 8 4-jaw independent chuck with back plate is going to be about 40 pounds. That s a handful to put on some spindles. Joe
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 29, 2009
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                    Don't neglect weight. A 8" 4-jaw independent chuck with back plate is going
                    to be about 40 pounds. That's a handful to put on some spindles. Joe
                  • leasingham_connelly
                    I ve followed this thread to see where it goes. Set true chucks are one option, independant three or four jaws are another. No one seems to have mentioned soft
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 30, 2009
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                      I've followed this thread to see where it goes. Set true chucks are one option, independant three or four jaws are another. No one seems to have mentioned soft jaws. If you buy a chuck get one with two part jaws. These allow you to replace the top of the jaw with soft material. This can be machined in place to give the correct diameter for the work piece and maximum possible accuracy with a lot less messing around than the other options. You can make sets of jaw tops to suit different jobs if there is anything you do repeatedly.

                      Soft jaws are less likely to marr already machined surfaces. Soft jaws can be made of plastic, brass, copper, steel or aluminum, anything to hand in fact, as long as it is machinable. Look up pie jaws as well.

                      Some two part jaws allow you to make your own tops, those with serations will need to be purchased, the ones with a tenon can be home made.

                      See

                      http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-3-Jaw-Scroll-Chuck-D1-4/G9821
                      http://www.prattburnerd.com/
                      <http://www.prattburnerd.com/products2009/Pg%2079%20Maching%20Soft%20Blanks.pdf>
                      <http://www.taiki-jaws.com/soft_jaws-accessories_of_power_chuck-products.html>

                      for some examples.

                      For small diameters collets, C5 (max 1") or ER32 (max 20mm), are a good option to look into.

                      Martin

                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "wildernessknife" <wildernessknife@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi all, about a year ago I fell into possesion of a new grizzly 9729, which I ave been slowly learning to use for my knife making business. Most of the work has been on the mill part of this machine, but I want to start doing more work with the lathe. It has a 5 inch 3 jaw chuck which bolts to a permanent spindle backplate and the runout is not to bad, however, I want to get the best accuracy possible from myself and this machine, so I've been looking into the 4 jaw chucks in the 6 to 8 inch range. My question is this , is an 8 inch chuck to large for this machine? should I stay with a chuck closer to the 5inch size? and will I be looking at the chucks with the flat back requiring an adapter plate? Any advice would be appreciated. Wes
                      >
                    • Sidney
                      ... Which is a good reason not to use such a large chuck on a modest sized machine like the G9729. A 6 4 jaw would probably be a better fit. But, this raises
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 30, 2009
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                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Hood" <joehood@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Don't neglect weight. A 8" 4-jaw independent chuck with back plate is going
                        > to be about 40 pounds. That's a handful to put on some spindles. Joe
                        >

                        Which is a good reason not to use such a large chuck on a modest sized machine like the G9729. A 6" 4 jaw would probably be a better fit.

                        But, this raises a question about what you are going to be making with your new lathe. Do you really need a 4 jaw chuck for producing the parts you need? Would a 3 jaw be faster and accurate enough for producing the parts you need? What sized parts are you making?
                      • curt wuollet
                        It wouldn t necessarily unbalance the chuck, but it wouldn t be the same as a 4 jaw because the jaws are at 60 degree increments vs 90 for the 4 jaw. It would
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 30, 2009
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                          It wouldn't necessarily unbalance the
                          chuck, but it wouldn't be the same as
                          a 4 jaw because the jaws are at 60 degree
                          increments vs 90 for the 4 jaw. It would
                          get interesting centering 4 sided stock
                          but I suppose it could be done. In other
                          words, you can do it but, I fail to see
                          any advantage.

                          Regards

                          cww

                          wildernessknife wrote:
                          > First, thanks for all the responses. At this time I mostly use this lathe for making parts for my custom made knives( fancy guards and buttcaps, sheath parts) but I'm wanting to advance my skills, and thus , my possibilities. I have been looking at all the choices out there and determined that a six inch chuck would do ok for this machine but I've seen alot of six jaw as well as four jaw chucks and I was wondering, could a person aquire a six jaw chuck and remove two of the jaws(making it 4 jaw yet retaining six jaw possibilities) or would this terribly unbalance the chuck(probably a dumb question but I thought I'd ask anyway). Wes
                          >
                          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Sidney" <philteague@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Hood" <joehood@> wrote:
                          >>> Don't neglect weight. A 8" 4-jaw independent chuck with back plate is going
                          >>> to be about 40 pounds. That's a handful to put on some spindles. Joe
                          >>>
                          >> Which is a good reason not to use such a large chuck on a modest sized machine like the G9729. A 6" 4 jaw would probably be a better fit.
                          >>
                          >> But, this raises a question about what you are going to be making with your new lathe. Do you really need a 4 jaw chuck for producing the parts you need? Would a 3 jaw be faster and accurate enough for producing the parts you need? What sized parts are you making?
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • wildernessknife
                          First, thanks for all the responses. At this time I mostly use this lathe for making parts for my custom made knives( fancy guards and buttcaps, sheath parts)
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 30, 2009
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                            First, thanks for all the responses. At this time I mostly use this lathe for making parts for my custom made knives( fancy guards and buttcaps, sheath parts) but I'm wanting to advance my skills, and thus , my possibilities. I have been looking at all the choices out there and determined that a six inch chuck would do ok for this machine but I've seen alot of six jaw as well as four jaw chucks and I was wondering, could a person aquire a six jaw chuck and remove two of the jaws(making it 4 jaw yet retaining six jaw possibilities) or would this terribly unbalance the chuck(probably a dumb question but I thought I'd ask anyway). Wes

                            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Sidney" <philteague@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Hood" <joehood@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Don't neglect weight. A 8" 4-jaw independent chuck with back plate is going
                            > > to be about 40 pounds. That's a handful to put on some spindles. Joe
                            > >
                            >
                            > Which is a good reason not to use such a large chuck on a modest sized machine like the G9729. A 6" 4 jaw would probably be a better fit.
                            >
                            > But, this raises a question about what you are going to be making with your new lathe. Do you really need a 4 jaw chuck for producing the parts you need? Would a 3 jaw be faster and accurate enough for producing the parts you need? What sized parts are you making?
                            >
                          • William Abernathy
                            ... Those jaws don t float in space. They ride in little slots. You can take a jaw or two out of a 6-jaw chuck, but it won t enhance your holding ability any.
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 30, 2009
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                              wildernessknife wrote:
                              > I have been looking at all the choices out there and determined that a six inch
                              > chuck would do ok for this machine but I've seen alot of six jaw as well as
                              > four jaw chucks and I was wondering, could a person aquire a six jaw chuck
                              > and remove two of the jaws(making it 4 jaw yet retaining six jaw
                              > possibilities) or would this terribly unbalance the chuck(probably a dumb
                              > question but I thought I'd ask anyway).

                              Those jaws don't float in space. They ride in little slots. You can take a jaw
                              or two out of a 6-jaw chuck, but it won't enhance your holding ability any.
                              Check the prices. 6-jaw chucks are hella 'spensive, and a much cheaper 3-jaw
                              chuck will do 99% of the same jobs.

                              You need a quick pointer here. Each jaw of a 4-jaw chuck rides on its own little
                              screw. That's why these are called "independent" chucks--the jaws move
                              independently. Old guys call these "dog chucks" because they started out life as
                              faceplates with clamps ("dogs") screwed to them to hold the work.

                              Three- and six-jaw chucks are called "scroll" chucks or "universal" chucks. They
                              have a big spiral in the back, and when you turn it, all the jaws ride the
                              spiral in or out together, moving just like on a drill chuck.

                              The 4-jaw chuck is more exact, once you center your work. The three-jaw chuck is
                              easier, but tends to be less than perfectly accurate. Six-jaw chucks serve most
                              of the same purposes as a 3-jaw chuck but are better for things like thinwall
                              tube: more jaws spreads the clamping load over more points, and is less likely
                              to crush the work.

                              Good luck!

                              --William A.
                            • Rick Sparber
                              3 jaw chucks are exact if you start with an oversized bar and turn it down. As long as you don t remove the part and the lathe s bearings don t have too much
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 30, 2009
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                                3 jaw chucks are exact if you start with an oversized bar and turn it down.
                                As long as you don't remove the part and the lathe's bearings don't have too
                                much slop, you will get the center of the part at the center of rotation.

                                If you must mount a part in a 3 jaw chuck and can't turn the OD, it is not
                                that hard to shim the jaws and make it run as true as you want.

                                I have a 4 jaw and rarely use it.

                                Rick

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of William Abernathy
                                Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:20 PM
                                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks

                                wildernessknife wrote:
                                > I have been looking at all the choices out there and determined that a six
                                inch
                                > chuck would do ok for this machine but I've seen alot of six jaw as well
                                as
                                > four jaw chucks and I was wondering, could a person aquire a six jaw chuck
                                > and remove two of the jaws(making it 4 jaw yet retaining six jaw
                                > possibilities) or would this terribly unbalance the chuck(probably a dumb
                                > question but I thought I'd ask anyway).

                                Those jaws don't float in space. They ride in little slots. You can take a
                                jaw
                                or two out of a 6-jaw chuck, but it won't enhance your holding ability any.
                                Check the prices. 6-jaw chucks are hella 'spensive, and a much cheaper 3-jaw

                                chuck will do 99% of the same jobs.

                                You need a quick pointer here. Each jaw of a 4-jaw chuck rides on its own
                                little
                                screw. That's why these are called "independent" chucks--the jaws move
                                independently. Old guys call these "dog chucks" because they started out
                                life as
                                faceplates with clamps ("dogs") screwed to them to hold the work.

                                Three- and six-jaw chucks are called "scroll" chucks or "universal" chucks.
                                They
                                have a big spiral in the back, and when you turn it, all the jaws ride the
                                spiral in or out together, moving just like on a drill chuck.

                                The 4-jaw chuck is more exact, once you center your work. The three-jaw
                                chuck is
                                easier, but tends to be less than perfectly accurate. Six-jaw chucks serve
                                most
                                of the same purposes as a 3-jaw chuck but are better for things like
                                thinwall
                                tube: more jaws spreads the clamping load over more points, and is less
                                likely
                                to crush the work.

                                Good luck!

                                --William A.



                                ------------------------------------

                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • curt wuollet
                                Someone should also mention that you can grind the jaws and make them concentric at a given diameter by clamping on a spacer of that diameter and using a
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 30, 2009
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                                  Someone should also mention that
                                  you can grind the jaws and make
                                  them concentric at a given diameter
                                  by clamping on a spacer of that
                                  diameter and using a toolpost
                                  grinder.

                                  Regards

                                  cww


                                  Rick Sparber wrote:
                                  > 3 jaw chucks are exact if you start with an oversized bar and turn it down.
                                  > As long as you don't remove the part and the lathe's bearings don't have too
                                  > much slop, you will get the center of the part at the center of rotation.
                                  >
                                  > If you must mount a part in a 3 jaw chuck and can't turn the OD, it is not
                                  > that hard to shim the jaws and make it run as true as you want.
                                  >
                                  > I have a 4 jaw and rarely use it.
                                  >
                                  > Rick
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > Behalf Of William Abernathy
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:20 PM
                                  > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks
                                  >
                                  > wildernessknife wrote:
                                  >> I have been looking at all the choices out there and determined that a six
                                  > inch
                                  >> chuck would do ok for this machine but I've seen alot of six jaw as well
                                  > as
                                  >> four jaw chucks and I was wondering, could a person aquire a six jaw chuck
                                  >> and remove two of the jaws(making it 4 jaw yet retaining six jaw
                                  >> possibilities) or would this terribly unbalance the chuck(probably a dumb
                                  >> question but I thought I'd ask anyway).
                                  >
                                  > Those jaws don't float in space. They ride in little slots. You can take a
                                  > jaw
                                  > or two out of a 6-jaw chuck, but it won't enhance your holding ability any.
                                  > Check the prices. 6-jaw chucks are hella 'spensive, and a much cheaper 3-jaw
                                  >
                                  > chuck will do 99% of the same jobs.
                                  >
                                  > You need a quick pointer here. Each jaw of a 4-jaw chuck rides on its own
                                  > little
                                  > screw. That's why these are called "independent" chucks--the jaws move
                                  > independently. Old guys call these "dog chucks" because they started out
                                  > life as
                                  > faceplates with clamps ("dogs") screwed to them to hold the work.
                                  >
                                  > Three- and six-jaw chucks are called "scroll" chucks or "universal" chucks.
                                  > They
                                  > have a big spiral in the back, and when you turn it, all the jaws ride the
                                  > spiral in or out together, moving just like on a drill chuck.
                                  >
                                  > The 4-jaw chuck is more exact, once you center your work. The three-jaw
                                  > chuck is
                                  > easier, but tends to be less than perfectly accurate. Six-jaw chucks serve
                                  > most
                                  > of the same purposes as a 3-jaw chuck but are better for things like
                                  > thinwall
                                  > tube: more jaws spreads the clamping load over more points, and is less
                                  > likely
                                  > to crush the work.
                                  >
                                  > Good luck!
                                  >
                                  > --William A.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Philip Burman
                                  Yes you need to turn down the register a touch. As for the chuck moving under cutting forces, think about the clamping forces on the chuck mounting bolts vs
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 31, 2009
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                                    Yes you need to turn down the register a touch. As for the chuck moving under cutting forces, think about the clamping forces on the chuck mounting bolts vs for example the cutting tool clamp bolts or the tool post bolt. This method of truing a self-centering chuck is widely accepted by experienced machinists and appears in a number of highly respected books. Believe me the chuck will not move. I've used this method for more than 20 years.

                                    Phil

                                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "gd.marsh" <gd.marsh@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Phil,
                                    > All my chucks have a slight pocket on the back of the chuck body that the back plate is supposed to register into snugly .. It seems to me you would have to turn the register diameter down on the back plate to allow you to move the chuck around on the plate. Agreed, if that was done the chuck body could then be 'nudged' into a more accurate position, but with only the back plate bolts to hold it there, it seems to me it wouldn't stay put for very long once cutting forces were applied.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Philip Burman <philip.burman@...>
                                    > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:17:37 PM
                                    > Subject: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > You can achieve the same with a standard 3 jaw, if it has backplate, with a little more effort and a rubber mallet. Just open the mounting bolt holes on the backplate a touch, then you are ready to go as per the "Set True".
                                    >
                                    > Phil
                                    >
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                                  • Richard Kleinhenz
                                    I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2 reamer blank. You
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 31, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)

                                      On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:

                                      >Richard,
                                      >
                                      >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                                      >chuck, I think.<
                                      >
                                      >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                                      >
                                      >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                                      >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                                      >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                                      >my work piece to center.
                                      >
                                      >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                                      >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                                      >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                                      >round or triangular stock.

                                      --
                                      Best regards,
                                      Rich
                                      =============================================
                                      Richard Kleinhenz
                                      http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                                      http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                                      =============================================
                                    • C4C
                                      Richard, Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw Set True chuck. A 3 jaw Set True chuck is
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jan 1, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Richard,

                                        Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.

                                        A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.

                                        Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.

                                        C4C

                                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                                        >
                                        > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >Richard,
                                        > >
                                        > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                                        > >chuck, I think.<
                                        > >
                                        > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                                        > >
                                        > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                                        > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                                        > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                                        > >my work piece to center.
                                        > >
                                        > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                                        > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                                        > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                                        > >round or triangular stock.
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Best regards,
                                        > Rich
                                        > =============================================
                                        > Richard Kleinhenz
                                        > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                                        > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                                        > =============================================
                                        >
                                      • EdwinB
                                        I don t own a Set True chuck, but it seems to me that setting it for dead-on is a bit more work if you are chucking up pieces of various sizes. If I
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                                          I don't own a 'Set True' chuck, but it seems to me that setting it for dead-on is a bit more work if you are chucking up pieces of various sizes. If I understand the operation correctly, you have to tighten the chuck on the workpiece, loosen the chuck mounting screws, adjust the centering screws, and then re-tighten the mounting screws. To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.

                                          Regards,
                                          Ed

                                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Richard,
                                          >
                                          > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                                          >
                                          > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                                          >
                                          > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                                          >
                                          > C4C
                                          >
                                          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                                          > >
                                          > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > >Richard,
                                          > > >
                                          > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                                          > > >chuck, I think.<
                                          > > >
                                          > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                                          > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                                          > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                                          > > >my work piece to center.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                                          > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                                          > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                                          > > >round or triangular stock.
                                          > >
                                          > > --
                                          > > Best regards,
                                          > > Rich
                                          > > =============================================
                                          > > Richard Kleinhenz
                                          > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                                          > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                                          > > =============================================
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Corey Renner
                                          For one item, yes, the 4-jaw will be faster. The beauty of the set-tru three-jaw is that if you are making multiple parts, you should be able to do the
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                                            For one item, yes, the 4-jaw will be faster.  The beauty of the set-tru three-jaw is that if you are making multiple parts, you should be able to do the set-tru part once and ALL subsequent identcal-diameter parts will also be tru by only opening and closing the 3-jaw chuck itself and not messing with the set-tru portion.
                                             
                                            cheers,
                                            c

                                            On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:37 AM, EdwinB <n5kzw@...> wrote:
                                             

                                             To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.

                                            Regards,
                                            Ed

                                          • Druid Noibn
                                            Hi Ed,   I agree with you and it seems we have a misunderstanding here.   The Set Tru (somebody s trademark ) design is simply to center the chuck -
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                                              Hi Ed,
                                               
                                              I agree with you and it seems we have a misunderstanding here.
                                               
                                              The "Set Tru" (somebody's trademark <smile>) design is simply to center the chuck - the scroll is presumed to be "true" and as such one doesn't typically tweak it every time one changes the size of the work being turned.  
                                               
                                              I can't say if the QC on the scroll and jaws is any better than a non "set-tru" chuck (assuming the same brand) but the reports are that the chucks are real nice if expensive. 
                                               
                                              Take care,
                                              DBN

                                              --- On Sat, 1/2/10, EdwinB <n5kzw@...> wrote:

                                              From: EdwinB <n5kzw@...>
                                              Subject: [mill_drill] Re: lathe chucks
                                              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 10:37 AM

                                               
                                              I don't own a 'Set True' chuck, but it seems to me that setting it for dead-on is a bit more work if you are chucking up pieces of various sizes. If I understand the operation correctly, you have to tighten the chuck on the workpiece, loosen the chuck mounting screws, adjust the centering screws, and then re-tighten the mounting screws. To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.

                                              Regards,
                                              Ed

                                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@. ..> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Richard,
                                              >
                                              > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                                              >
                                              > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                                              >
                                              > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                                              >
                                              > C4C
                                              >
                                              > --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent- jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                                              > >
                                              > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > >Richard,
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>A 4-independent- jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                                              > > >chuck, I think.<
                                              > > >
                                              > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                                              > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                                              > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                                              > > >my work piece to center.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                                              > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                                              > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                                              > > >round or triangular stock.
                                              > >
                                              > > --
                                              > > Best regards,
                                              > > Rich
                                              > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ======
                                              > > Richard Kleinhenz
                                              > > http://beautifulhan dmadepens. com
                                              > > http://penmakersgui ld.com/browse. php?gallery= kleinhenzr
                                              > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ======
                                              > >
                                              >


                                            • Philip Burman
                                              For one item if you have to remove your 3 jaw to mount a 4 jaw then a set-true (or equivalent) is also quicker. In any case a set-true can often be
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                                                For one item if you have to remove your 3 jaw to mount a 4 jaw then a set-true (or equivalent) is also quicker.

                                                In any case a set-true can often be easier/quicker than a 4 jaw (depending on skill) because the set screws are only tensioned for adjusting postion not for holding the work piece.

                                                Phil

                                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > For one item, yes, the 4-jaw will be faster. The beauty of the set-tru
                                                > three-jaw is that if you are making multiple parts, you should be able to do
                                                > the set-tru part once and ALL subsequent identcal-diameter parts will also
                                                > be tru by only opening and closing the 3-jaw chuck itself and not messing
                                                > with the set-tru portion.
                                                >
                                                > cheers,
                                                > c
                                                >
                                                > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:37 AM, EdwinB <n5kzw@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > To me, using the 4-jaw sounds a lot faster.
                                                > >
                                                > > Regards,
                                                > > Ed
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • nordhs
                                                C4C, I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I m going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time.
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
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                                                  C4C,
                                                  I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.

                                                  Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.

                                                  Steve



                                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Richard,
                                                  >
                                                  > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                                                  >
                                                  > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                                                  >
                                                  > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                                                  >
                                                  > C4C
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > >Richard,
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                                                  > > >chuck, I think.<
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                                                  > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                                                  > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                                                  > > >my work piece to center.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                                                  > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                                                  > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                                                  > > >round or triangular stock.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --
                                                  > > Best regards,
                                                  > > Rich
                                                  > > =============================================
                                                  > > Richard Kleinhenz
                                                  > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                                                  > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                                                  > > =============================================
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • wildernessknife
                                                  Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don t disapoint. The main reason I believed I d need to invest in a 4
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don't disapoint. The main reason I believed I'd need to invest in a 4 jaw is that alot of the free material stock I pick up is in the form of square, hex and octagon configuration. and I believed I would need no less than a 4 jaw chuck to hold this stuff. Wes

                                                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "nordhs" <snordha1@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > C4C,
                                                    > I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.
                                                    >
                                                    > Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.
                                                    >
                                                    > Steve
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Richard,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > C4C
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > >Richard,
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                                                    > > > >chuck, I think.<
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                                                    > > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                                                    > > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                                                    > > > >my work piece to center.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                                                    > > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                                                    > > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                                                    > > > >round or triangular stock.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --
                                                    > > > Best regards,
                                                    > > > Rich
                                                    > > > =============================================
                                                    > > > Richard Kleinhenz
                                                    > > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                                                    > > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                                                    > > > =============================================
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                  • C4C
                                                    Wes, Based on your requirements a 4 jaw chuck is definitely the way to go. I apologize for all of the BS that you got in response to your quest for
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jan 2, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Wes,

                                                      Based on your requirements a 4 jaw chuck is definitely the way to go.

                                                      I apologize for all of the BS that you got in response to your quest for information.

                                                      C4C

                                                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "wildernessknife" <wildernessknife@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don't disapoint. The main reason I believed I'd need to invest in a 4 jaw is that alot of the free material stock I pick up is in the form of square, hex and octagon configuration. and I believed I would need no less than a 4 jaw chuck to hold this stuff. Wes
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "nordhs" <snordha1@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > C4C,
                                                      > > I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Steve
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C4C" <cnc4cheap@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Richard,
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Your original statement was that you think that a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > A 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck is actually two chucks in one as it possesses 3 jaws actuated by a common scroll along with 4 independent jack screws placed at 90° indexing around the chuck body and perpendicular to the spindle axis. If the 3 jaw function does not provide the reqired accuracy then the four jack screws will.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Your original statement led me to believe that you had no knowledge of how a 'Set True' chuck functions.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > C4C
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Richard Kleinhenz <richk@> wrote:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > I know very well what a set-true chuck is. There are more inaccuracies in a chuck than just centering.at 1 diameter, say by chucking a 1/2" reamer blank. You can't assume that when you grip a 2" workpiece it will be just as accurate as what you set the chuck to at the other diameter. A set-true chuck is wonderful. And if you are repeating work (same diameter, by nature), it's the cat's meow. But it is no more accurate than a 4-independent-jaw chuck - but a heck of a lot more convenient (and also a tad more expensive)
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > On 12/28/2009 at 8:38 PM C4C wrote:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > >Richard,
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >>A 4-independent-jaw chuck will be more accurate than a set-true 3-jaw
                                                      > > > > >chuck, I think.<
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >You apparently have no idea of what a 'Set True' lathe chuck is.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >A 'Set True' lathe chuck is in reality a 4 jaw lathe chuck with 3 jaws.
                                                      > > > > >Where you would use the chuck jaw screws to force your work piece to
                                                      > > > > >center I would use (4) set screws to force both the 3 jaw lathe chuck and
                                                      > > > > >my work piece to center.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >When you load a new work piece you will have to repeat the centering
                                                      > > > > >process. When I load a new work piece I will tighten the 3 jaw chuck and
                                                      > > > > >go about my procdure. That is assuming that you are working with hex,
                                                      > > > > >round or triangular stock.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > --
                                                      > > > > Best regards,
                                                      > > > > Rich
                                                      > > > > =============================================
                                                      > > > > Richard Kleinhenz
                                                      > > > > http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                                                      > > > > http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                                                      > > > > =============================================
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • Stan Stocker
                                                      Hi Wes, It s worth noting that hex stock can not be readily held in a four jaw chuck. For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                        Hi Wes,

                                                        It's worth noting that hex stock can not be readily held in a four jaw
                                                        chuck.

                                                        For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others
                                                        they are wrong I'll just say that yes, I know about sleeves, special
                                                        jaws, grinding/milling off the points on hex stock to hold it in a four
                                                        jaw, and all other sorts of cobbled up work arounds. I do not agree
                                                        with those that say that gripping with two jaws while simply positioning
                                                        and kind of gripping with the two jaws that are on points is fine. I've
                                                        done it when I had to and didn't find it to be a really pleasant way for
                                                        getting things done. Works (sort off, usually) if all you have is a
                                                        four jaw though. Also useful if you must turn an offset boss on hex
                                                        stock, but it isn't the most solid workholding method I've ever run into.

                                                        But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a
                                                        four jaw and hex stock don't work together.

                                                        Happy new year to the happy folks,
                                                        Stan

                                                        wildernessknife wrote:
                                                        > Well, I started this thread in hopes of getting a lot of good information, and you guys don't disapoint. The main reason I believed I'd need to invest in a 4 jaw is that alot of the free material stock I pick up is in the form of square, hex and octagon configuration. and I believed I would need no less than a 4 jaw chuck to hold this stuff. Wes
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                      • C4C
                                                        Wes, You are on the right track with your choice of a 4 jaw chuck for your work. Good luck with your venture and don t let the Lght Weights confuse you. Stan,
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                                          Wes,

                                                          You are on the right track with your choice of a 4 jaw chuck for your work. Good luck with your venture and don't let the Lght Weights confuse you.

                                                          Stan,

                                                          Welcome to the discussion.

                                                          I have over 45+ years of machine shop experience in shops ranging from line-shaft where all machines were power by a single motor to Boeing Military Aircraft where I was 'A lead' over the machine shop.

                                                          If it's been done on a lathe or mill then I have done it with perfection. I'm now retired but I still have a shop with functional machinery that I use occasionally when my health allows.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          Let's discuss:

                                                          >>For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others they are wrong<<

                                                          I want to thank you for adding another totally ignorant statement to the stack.

                                                          >>But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a four jaw and hex stock don't work together.<<

                                                          WRONG! A 4 jaw chuck can securely grip on hex stock. Two opposing flats and two opposing points.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          Steve,

                                                          Your contribution of ignorant statements will be hard to out do.

                                                          >>I own a Buck Set True<<

                                                          WRONG! You own a Buck "Adjust Tru" lathe chuck.

                                                          DBN, a knowledgable contributor, correctly noted that I was using 'Set True' as being a type of chuck as opposed to it being a brand specific name. When a manufacturer is the first to release a product that is widely accepted by the market then their product name will become the standard. For instance; Cresent Wrench is widely used in reference to all open end adjustable wrenches.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          >>It is a great tool.<<

                                                          Yes you are correct. I have one for every spindle in my shop which includes all of my indexing heads. Most of them were purchased new through eBay auctions where I paid less than twenty cents on the dollar.

                                                          Both DBN and myself committed about them being expensive but they need not be. If it's a Buck "Set Tru", Pratt Burnerd "Set True" or Yuasa 585 series "Accu Chuck" then it's a quality chuck depending on it's condition. I own at least two of each and I can truthly say that I have no preference over the three brands.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          >>The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter.<<

                                                          So what? You spend more time truing a "specific diameter" in a 4 jaw chuck and when the "specific diameter" is removed you have NOTHING.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          >>This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls<<

                                                          Do you actually believe that any given one of the three fixed jaws will inflict more wear on the scroll than the other two?

                                                          A frequent aerosol application Molybdenum Disulfide on fixed jaws and scroll and wear is not a problem. Frequent: once a week in production applications.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          >>any jaw irregularities.<<

                                                          You started with jaws in known condition and it's doubtful that their condition will change unless they're damaged by operator error.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          >>With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period.<<

                                                          So what? The exact same statement can be made about 3 jaw 'Set True' chucks. The only difference is that the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck will retain center while the 4 jaw chuck will require a complete re-centering process when you remove your work piece.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          >>Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure.<<

                                                          Do you therorize that the amateurs find the 4 screws on the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck to be simpler than the 4 screws on a 4 jaw chuck?
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          >>However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water.<<

                                                          This is without a doubt the most stupid statement of all. Going Double Down on Richards statement is like DUMMER coming to the recue of DUMB.

                                                          Both types of chucks use the exact same mechanical process for truing a round work piece yet you believe that one is superior to the other.

                                                          The truth is that both types chucks, being equal in quality, can achieve the same degree of accuracy. However the starting error will always be far less with a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.
                                                          ======================================================================

                                                          Stan, Steve,

                                                          If you want to engage in the battle of smart then I would suggest that you bring ammunition with you. Your vague and vaporous statements may impress the shallow minds in the reading audience but they're very transparent to those of whom HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT.

                                                          C4C

                                                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Stan Stocker <skstocker@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Hi Wes,
                                                          >
                                                          > It's worth noting that hex stock can not be readily held in a four jaw
                                                          > chuck.
                                                          >
                                                          > For the folks around here that love to conjure up ways of telling others
                                                          > they are wrong I'll just say that yes, I know about sleeves, special
                                                          > jaws, grinding/milling off the points on hex stock to hold it in a four
                                                          > jaw, and all other sorts of cobbled up work arounds. I do not agree
                                                          > with those that say that gripping with two jaws while simply positioning
                                                          > and kind of gripping with the two jaws that are on points is fine. I've
                                                          > done it when I had to and didn't find it to be a really pleasant way for
                                                          > getting things done. Works (sort off, usually) if all you have is a
                                                          > four jaw though. Also useful if you must turn an offset boss on hex
                                                          > stock, but it isn't the most solid workholding method I've ever run into.
                                                          >
                                                          > But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a
                                                          > four jaw and hex stock don't work together.
                                                          >
                                                          > Happy new year to the happy folks,
                                                          > Stan
                                                          >
                                                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "nordhs" <snordha1@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > C4C,
                                                          > I usually lay low during these snot-offs but I'm going to have to weigh in with Richard. I own a Buck Set True and I use it or collets most of the time. It is a great tool. Your description of the 4 centering screws is accurate. The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter. This doesn't take into account any wear to the scrolls, any jaw irregularities. With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period. If you are patient enough, it is centered.
                                                          >
                                                          > Does this matter for me? Not really. I hardly ever need to center a part that accurately. Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure. However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water. You don't re-tweak the set true when you use it at a different diameter - otherwise you would use a 4 jaw.
                                                          >
                                                          > Steve
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                        • nordhs
                                                          Dearest CNC4cheap, Comments in-line: ... I don t know the answer to this but wouldn t soft metals like brass and aluminum deform more if you clamp them
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                                            Dearest CNC4cheap,
                                                            Comments in-line:

                                                            <snip>

                                                            >
                                                            > I want to thank you for adding another totally ignorant statement to the stack.
                                                            >
                                                            > >>But for just getting on with making a living and doing the job at hand a four jaw and hex stock don't work together.<<
                                                            >
                                                            > WRONG! A 4 jaw chuck can securely grip on hex stock. Two opposing flats and two opposing points.


                                                            I don't know the answer to this but wouldn't soft metals like brass and aluminum deform more if you clamp them on their points? I always try to put pressure on flat sections, not points.



                                                            > ======================================================================
                                                            >
                                                            > Steve,
                                                            >
                                                            > Your contribution of ignorant statements will be hard to out do.
                                                            >
                                                            > >>I own a Buck Set True<<
                                                            >
                                                            > WRONG! You own a Buck "Adjust Tru" lathe chuck.
                                                            >
                                                            > DBN, a knowledgable contributor, correctly noted that I was using 'Set True' as being a type of chuck as opposed to it being a brand specific name. When a manufacturer is the first to release a product that is widely accepted by the market then their product name will become the standard. For instance; Cresent Wrench is widely used in reference to all open end adjustable wrenches.
                                                            >

                                                            Yes, I know my Buck is called an 'Adjust Tru' but rather than use a brand name in a generic discussion and add another term, I used the generic name.

                                                            <snip>
                                                            ======================================================================
                                                            >
                                                            > >>The only issue that I have with it's accuracy is that you set it at a specific diameter.<<
                                                            >
                                                            > So what? You spend more time truing a "specific diameter" in a 4 jaw chuck and when the "specific diameter" is removed you have NOTHING.
                                                            >

                                                            Maybe I'm using my Buck incorrectly. Are you advocating readjusting the set screws each time you chuck work? If so, I'll agree that it is as accurate as a 4 jaw since you are now centering the work each time and it will start closer than a 4 jaw.

                                                            <snip>

                                                            ======================================================================
                                                            >
                                                            > >>With a 4 jaw, you center the workpiece. Period.<<
                                                            >
                                                            > So what? The exact same statement can be made about 3 jaw 'Set True' chucks. The only difference is that the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck will retain center while the 4 jaw chuck will require a complete re-centering process when you remove your work piece.

                                                            I believe that you are advocating adjusting the Set True each time from this and the next statement. The hobbyists I know (not pros like you) adjust the Set True once, check it occasionally and assume it centers. Therefore it is far faster and accurate enough for what we do, but not as accurate as centering the work in a 4 jaw.
                                                            > ======================================================================
                                                            >
                                                            > >>Is the Buck far faster for amateurs? Sure.<<
                                                            >
                                                            > Do you therorize that the amateurs find the 4 screws on the 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck to be simpler than the 4 screws on a 4 jaw chuck?
                                                            > ======================================================================
                                                            >
                                                            > >>However, I do think that the statement that 'a 4 jaw chuck would be more accurate than a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck' holds water.<<

                                                            Let me add 'unless you readjust the 'Set True' each time in the same manner as a 4 jaw is centered.


                                                            >
                                                            > This is without a doubt the most stupid statement of all. Going Double Down on Richards statement is like DUMMER coming to the recue of DUMB.

                                                            It is not nice to make this a personal attack. OK, so I'm an idiot and you are brilliant shaft of light shining out when all else is dark. I'm comfortable with that if you are.

                                                            >
                                                            > Both types of chucks use the exact same mechanical process for truing a round work piece yet you believe that one is superior to the other.
                                                            >
                                                            > The truth is that both types chucks, being equal in quality, can achieve the same degree of accuracy. However the starting error will always be far less with a 3 jaw 'Set True' chuck.

                                                            Again, an absolute TRUTH (put it on a pedestal) provided you readjust the 'Set True' set screws each time.

                                                            Steve
                                                            P.S. I think it is 'Dumb and Dumber'.
                                                          • Richard Kleinhenz
                                                            ... Now there s a nice value statement ;-) Note that the original question was NOT what type of chuck to get... ;-) Anyway - I wish I had infinite fund and I
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                                              On 1/3/2010 at 7:53 AM C4C wrote:

                                                              >I apologize for all of the BS that you got in response to your quest for
                                                              >information.

                                                              Now there's a nice value statement ;-) Note that the original question was NOT what type of chuck to get... ;-)

                                                              Anyway - I wish I had infinite fund and I would surely get a quality set-true 3-jaw for myself, in addition to the 4-jaw I have. The set-true would replace the std. 3-jaw and would take over some of the 4-jaw's duties. For me, the 4-jaw is used when I have to rechuck something and need concentricity, or when I need to grab an odd-shaped object.

                                                              I phrased my first post poorly, sorry about that. 'nuff said

                                                              --
                                                              Best regards,
                                                              Rich
                                                              =============================================
                                                              Richard Kleinhenz
                                                              http://beautifulhandmadepens.com
                                                              http://penmakersguild.com/browse.php?gallery=kleinhenzr
                                                              =============================================
                                                            • Jim S.
                                                              Don t want to PO anybody, but by learning and experience, the four jaw and the set true type three jaw take just as long to set up--for the FIRST part. After
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                                                Don't want to PO anybody, but by learning and experience, the four jaw and the set true type three jaw take just as long to set up--for the FIRST part. After that, the set true is faster for parts of the same diameter. I have never had a set true chuck in my home shop since I don't do much multiple part work, and they are pricey. Better a 3 jaw with machineable top jaws. In production work without collets, use the set true or a standard 3 jaw with bored soft jaws to match the diameter, and for best accuracy don't break down the setup until you're done.
                                                                 
                                                                Jim (Just a guy who likes to build stuff)
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