Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

220 conversion

Expand Messages
  • Alex Fraser
    Hey, I m new to the list. I live in Woodbridge, Virginia near DC. I have an Enco mill drill. It is currently set up for 110 volt. The inside cover of the motor
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 25, 2009
      Hey,

          I'm new to the list.  I live in Woodbridge, Virginia near DC. 

          I have an Enco mill drill.  It is currently set up for 110 volt.  The inside cover of the motor wire connection box has a diagram showing how to change to 220.  My question is can I just change the motor windings  as per the diagram on the box and then use the same barrel switch for forward, reverse and off?
      -- 
         \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
             No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
               --------------------------------------------------------
       ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
               --------------------------------------------------------
      [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
      
      
    • Charles Owen
      Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there s absolutely no benefit at all. You don t get more
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 25, 2009
        Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
      • FocusKnobs
        Actually there may be an advantage, depending on the circumstances. A mill run on a 110V line will require roughly twice the amps as will the same mill running
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 25, 2009
          Actually there may be an advantage, depending on the circumstances.

          A mill run on a 110V line will require roughly twice the amps as will
          the same mill running on a 220V line. Many older homes are wired with
          #14 AWG, and if it is a long run to the breaker box/panel, the voltage
          drop may be excessive; in which case if you're going to run a new
          circuit to the mill anyway, you might as well run 220. Otherwise, I
          agree ... there's no real need to switch to 220.

          Alex - yes, everything else stays the same.

          Lou


          -----Original Message-----
          From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Charles Owen
          Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:48 PM
          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

          Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will
          require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You
          don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any
          cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Alex Fraser
          Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:51 AM
          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [mill_drill] 220 conversion

          Hey,

          I'm new to the list. I live in Woodbridge, Virginia near DC.

          I have an Enco mill drill. It is currently set up for 110 volt. The
          inside cover of the motor wire connection box has a diagram showing how
          to change to 220. My question is can I just change the motor windings
          as per the diagram on the box and then use the same barrel switch for
          forward, reverse and off?
        • Druid Noibn
          Hi,   Points well taken. Many exiting 110vac lines are not dedicated and often go through several connecting points.  Add to that I squared R losses a new
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 25, 2009
            Hi,
             
            Points well taken. Many exiting 110vac lines are not dedicated and often go through several connecting points.  Add to that I squared R losses a new line is not a bad idea, be it 110 or 220.
             
            Take care,
            DBN

            --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Charles Owen <cbowen4@...> wrote:

            From: Charles Owen <cbowen4@...>
            Subject: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:47 PM

            Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.


          • Alex Fraser
            Twinkle twinkle little star, Power equals I squared R. I got a 100 amp box in the garage, I ran 240 out from the house. Originally I did it to run a Lincoln
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 25, 2009
              Twinkle twinkle little star,
              Power equals I squared R.

                  I got a 100 amp box in the garage, I ran 240 out from the house.  Originally I did it to run a Lincoln buzz box which sucks down 50 amps wide open.   I have a shared 20 amp breaker for the lathe and mill (I don't ever run them at the same time).  I ran 12 gauge to the plugs.

                  My 12x36 lathe likes 240, so I already had to run lines across the garage, a plug is already on the wall waiting for the mill.   Besides most of the new small 3 phase speed controller/converters run on 240v.  I'd like to eventually go with 3 phase on the mill/drill, but first I want to just get it running on 240 single phase.   Has anyone done this on list?

              Druid Noibn wrote:

              Hi,
               
              Points well taken. Many exiting 110vac lines are not dedicated and often go through several connecting points.  Add to that I squared R losses a new line is not a bad idea, be it 110 or 220.
               
              Take care,
              DBN

              --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Charles Owen <cbowen4@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: Charles Owen <cbowen4@yahoo. com>
              Subject: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
              To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
              Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:47 PM

              Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.




              -- 
                 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
                     No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                       --------------------------------------------------------
               ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
                       --------------------------------------------------------
              [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
              
              
            • Curt Wuollet
              The advantage is that you can start and run well within the capacity of a 12 AWG circuit. Many mill drills are right on the hairy edge at 110 and trip a 20A
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 26, 2009
                The advantage is that you can start and
                run well within the capacity of a 12 AWG
                circuit. Many mill drills are right on the
                hairy edge at 110 and trip a 20A breaker
                if they don't get started quickly, like when
                its cold or the belts are set for max speed.
                I wish I had a dual voltage motor for just
                that reason. I had to pull a dedicated line
                and change motors to quit popping the
                breaker. The chinese motors aren't real
                high on starting torque and they draw a
                lot of current trying. The second motor
                just barely makes it within the breaker
                delay. On a 20 amp 220 circuit, the
                breaker would hold indefinitely, until
                the crappy motor started or melted down
                and I could justify getting a decent one.

                Regards

                cww

                Charles Owen wrote:
                > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Druid Noibn
                Hi,   Nice poem – as stated, contact resistance becomes more of an issue as the current increases…the connections get warm and sometime hot.   For the
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 26, 2009
                  Hi,
                   
                  Nice poem – as stated, contact resistance becomes more of an issue as the current increases…the connections get warm and sometime hot.
                   
                  For the system here - a '45 type, I switched to a 3-phase motor using a VFD that has 1-phase input.  It works beautifully.  Nice ramp-up & deceleration, great speed range, and I have not yet stalled it – but I also haven’t tried to.
                   
                  The cost of the VFDs is low (about $150) and the motor came from eBay – look for the deals and watch out for the shipping charges.  One could pay a bit more and get a Leeson motor that sort of fits - needs a little work.  Or, buy a replacement 3-phase motor from Grizzly, HF, Lathemaster and probably others who sell similar systems - assuming one has this type of mill/drill.
                   
                  As the system here uses a metric motor and the new motor isn’t (it’s a 56c size) an adapter plate is needed – AND – an adapter for the motor shaft.  Heck, we have a shop for a reason.  
                   
                  Take care,
                  DBN


                  --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Alex Fraser <beatnic@...> wrote:

                  From: Alex Fraser <beatnic@...>
                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 11:38 PM

                  Twinkle twinkle little star,
                  Power equals I squared R.

                      I got a 100 amp box in the garage, I ran 240 out from the house.  Originally I did it to run a Lincoln buzz box which sucks down 50 amps wide open.   I have a shared 20 amp breaker for the lathe and mill (I don't ever run them at the same time).  I ran 12 gauge to the plugs.

                      My 12x36 lathe likes 240, so I already had to run lines across the garage, a plug is already on the wall waiting for the mill.   Besides most of the new small 3 phase speed controller/converte rs run on 240v.  I'd like to eventually go with 3 phase on the mill/drill, but first I want to just get it running on 240 single phase.   Has anyone done this on list?

                  Druid Noibn wrote:
                  Hi,
                   
                  Points well taken. Many exiting 110vac lines are not dedicated and often go through several connecting points.  Add to that I squared R losses a new line is not a bad idea, be it 110 or 220.
                   
                  Take care,
                  DBN

                  --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Charles Owen <cbowen4@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  From: Charles Owen <cbowen4@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                  Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 9:47 PM

                  Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.




                  -- 
                     \\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\----- ++++*0*++ ++-----// ///////// ///////
                         No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                           ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                   ~~~********* ********* **Alex Fraser****** ********* *****~~~
                           ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                  [[[[[[~~^^^# ___=>>>```/\/\**O** /\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]] ]]]]
                  
                  

                • racerxl500
                  ... Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don t load one power leg or
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 28, 2009
                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                    >
                    Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.
                  • Alex Fraser
                    Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? Do I have to alter the barrel switch? I have an Enco mill/drill. ... will
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 28, 2009
                      Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? 
                      Do I have to alter the barrel switch?  I have an Enco mill/drill.

                      racerxl500 wrote:

                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@... > wrote:
                      >
                      > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                      >
                      Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.



                      -- 
                         \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
                             No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                               --------------------------------------------------------
                       ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
                               --------------------------------------------------------
                      [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
                      
                      
                    • Glenn N
                      Not sure on your mill but on my DM45 I had to add a wire between switch and motor to convert to 110 from 220 (decided not to and went with 220 it came wired
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 28, 2009
                        Not sure on your mill but on my DM45 I had to add a wire between switch and motor to convert to 110 from 220 (decided not to and went with 220 it came wired for)  So you should be able to convert to 220 more easily than the other way around and if your motor is like mine you could just make the connection changes at the motor and change the plug.  The thing to know is that the drum switchs for 220 on these machines typically only switch one leg of the 220 so you always have a hot lead to the motor.  If the motor winding shorts to ground it will continue to run and smoke even after you turn off the switch.  (voice of experience)  I now have seperate switches for on/off and fwd/revs so both legs are switched.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:28 PM
                        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                        Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? 
                        Do I have to alter the barrel switch?  I have an Enco mill/drill.

                        racerxl500 wrote:

                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@... > wrote:
                        >
                        > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                        >
                        Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.



                        -- 
                           \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
                               No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                 --------------------------------------------------------
                         ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
                                 --------------------------------------------------------
                        [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
                        
                        
                      • Druid Noibn
                        Hi Alex,   Not all of the motors are 110/220 capable - read the manual and look at the motor nameplate - what do they tell you?   Take care, DBN ... From:
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 28, 2009
                          Hi Alex,
                           
                          Not all of the motors are 110/220 capable - read the manual and look at the motor nameplate - what do they tell you?
                           
                          Take care,
                          DBN

                          --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Alex Fraser <beatnic@...> wrote:

                          From: Alex Fraser <beatnic@...>
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 11:28 PM

                          Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? 
                          Do I have to alter the barrel switch?  I have an Enco mill/drill.

                          racerxl500 wrote:
                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@... > wrote:
                          >
                          > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                          >
                          Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.



                          -- 
                             \\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\----- ++++*0*++ ++-----// ///////// ///////
                                 No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                   ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                           ~~~********* ********* **Alex Fraser****** ********* *****~~~
                                   ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                          [[[[[[~~^^^# ___=>>>```/\/\**O** /\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]] ]]]]
                          
                          

                        • Alex Fraser
                          Thanks Glenn I had to go out in the garage and look at the model number. Mine is an Enco 105-1110. I ll have to read up a bit on reversing single phase motors.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                            Thanks Glenn

                                I had to go out in the garage and look at the model number. 
                            Mine is an Enco 105-1110.

                                I'll have to read up a bit on reversing single phase motors.
                            If not for the reversing, the conversion would be easier.  It seems it
                            would simplify things to separate on/off from fwd/reverse.  I have to
                            model it in my mind  so I'll have to separate -/0 and f/r to understand it anyway.

                                The industrial training I had didn't cover single phase used in
                            machine tools, it just isn't used very much for power applications.
                            None of my texts cover it.

                                One worry I have is being able to use the machine with no apparent problems
                            until I measure the potential between it and another 240v  machine next to it.
                            I guess there would be no problem as I'm getting the juice from the same breaker.

                                I can understand a certain reluctance in giving out detailed answers, there is the
                            threat of liability hanging over us.  I must assure everyone that every time I work with
                            AC I break out in a mild nervous sweat.  I've seen enough accidents and heard so many stories
                            that I have a very healthy respect for electricity.

                            Glenn N wrote:

                            Not sure on your mill but on my DM45 I had to add a wire between switch and motor to convert to 110 from 220 (decided not to and went with 220 it came wired for)  So you should be able to convert to 220 more easily than the other way around and if your motor is like mine you could just make the connection changes at the motor and change the plug.  The thing to know is that the drum switchs for 220 on these machines typically only switch one leg of the 220 so you always have a hot lead to the motor.  If the motor winding shorts to ground it will continue to run and smoke even after you turn off the switch.  (voice of experience)  I now have seperate switches for on/off and fwd/revs so both legs are switched.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:28 PM
                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                            Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? 
                            Do I have to alter the barrel switch?  I have an Enco mill/drill.

                            racerxl500 wrote:

                            --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@... > wrote:
                            >
                            > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                            >
                            Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.


                            _,___


                            -- 
                               \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
                                   No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                     --------------------------------------------------------
                             ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
                                     --------------------------------------------------------
                            [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
                            
                            
                          • Glenn N
                            Alex, The lack of detail in my answer had nothing to do with liability, but was directly related to the lack of detail in the question :) Seems none of these
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                              Alex,
                              The lack of detail in my answer had nothing to do with liability, but was directly related to the lack of detail in the question :)
                              Seems none of these mills are wired the same and there are several different motors and drum switches involved.  There is a motor wiring folder in the files section that address the 110/220 connections..if you can make sense out of their circuit drawings.  You also don't mention if your native power is 220, I just assumed you were in the US.  If you do use the drum switch be extra cautious with the grounding.  I found it easier to just replace the switch with two toggle switches.
                              Short answer yeah, I think you can just change the wires at the motor.
                              Let us know if I am correct ... or have someone else let us know if I was wrong LOL.
                              Glenn
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:00 AM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                              Thanks Glenn

                                  I had to go out in the garage and look at the model number. 
                              Mine is an Enco 105-1110.

                                  I'll have to read up a bit on reversing single phase motors.
                              If not for the reversing, the conversion would be easier.  It seems it
                              would simplify things to separate on/off from fwd/reverse.  I have to
                              model it in my mind  so I'll have to separate -/0 and f/r to understand it anyway.

                                  The industrial training I had didn't cover single phase used in
                              machine tools, it just isn't used very much for power applications.
                              None of my texts cover it.

                                  One worry I have is being able to use the machine with no apparent problems
                              until I measure the potential between it and another 240v  machine next to it.
                              I guess there would be no problem as I'm getting the juice from the same breaker.

                                  I can understand a certain reluctance in giving out detailed answers, there is the
                              threat of liability hanging over us.  I must assure everyone that every time I work with
                              AC I break out in a mild nervous sweat.  I've seen enough accidents and heard so many stories
                              that I have a very healthy respect for electricity.

                              Glenn N wrote:

                              Not sure on your mill but on my DM45 I had to add a wire between switch and motor to convert to 110 from 220 (decided not to and went with 220 it came wired for)  So you should be able to convert to 220 more easily than the other way around and if your motor is like mine you could just make the connection changes at the motor and change the plug.  The thing to know is that the drum switchs for 220 on these machines typically only switch one leg of the 220 so you always have a hot lead to the motor.  If the motor winding shorts to ground it will continue to run and smoke even after you turn off the switch.  (voice of experience)  I now have seperate switches for on/off and fwd/revs so both legs are switched.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:28 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                              Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? 
                              Do I have to alter the barrel switch?  I have an Enco mill/drill.

                              racerxl500 wrote:

                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@... > wrote:
                              >
                              > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                              >
                              Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.


                              _,___


                              -- 
                                 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
                                     No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                       --------------------------------------------------------
                               ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
                                       --------------------------------------------------------
                              [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
                              
                              
                            • Alex Fraser
                              Hey Glenn, I wasn t faulting your answer for lack of detail. The liability comment was generic in nature. You have been very helpful. I was looking for peoples
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                Hey Glenn,

                                    I wasn't faulting your answer for lack of detail.  The liability comment
                                was generic in nature.  You have been very helpful. 

                                I was looking for peoples experiences in conversions, "blue arc" to "works great"
                                and you supplied a good example of both.


                                    On the one side you have theory
                                and on the other you have experience. 
                                They  dance together,
                                sometimes a waltz,
                                sometimes a crazy dance. 

                                    I'm going to have to set aside some time to study this beast.  I've found looking at the other guys drawings
                                don't teach you as much as making your own.  The act of drawing the line between two points can lead
                                to some interesting neuron cascades.  Lots of coffee helps too.


                                Glenn N wrote:

                                Alex,
                                The lack of detail in my answer had nothing to do with liability, but was directly related to the lack of detail in the question :)
                                Seems none of these mills are wired the same and there are several different motors and drum switches involved.  There is a motor wiring folder in the files section that address the 110/220 connections. .if you can make sense out of their circuit drawings.  You also don't mention if your native power is 220, I just assumed you were in the US.  If you do use the drum switch be extra cautious with the grounding.  I found it easier to just replace the switch with two toggle switches.
                                Short answer yeah, I think you can just change the wires at the motor.
                                Let us know if I am correct ... or have someone else let us know if I was wrong LOL.
                                Glenn
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:00 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                                Thanks Glenn

                                    I had to go out in the garage and look at the model number. 
                                Mine is an Enco 105-1110.

                                    I'll have to read up a bit on reversing single phase motors.
                                If not for the reversing, the conversion would be easier.  It seems it
                                would simplify things to separate on/off from fwd/reverse.  I have to
                                model it in my mind  so I'll have to separate -/0 and f/r to understand it anyway.

                                    The industrial training I had didn't cover single phase used in
                                machine tools, it just isn't used very much for power applications.
                                None of my texts cover it.

                                    One worry I have is being able to use the machine with no apparent problems
                                until I measure the potential between it and another 240v  machine next to it.
                                I guess there would be no problem as I'm getting the juice from the same breaker.

                                    I can understand a certain reluctance in giving out detailed answers, there is the
                                threat of liability hanging over us.  I must assure everyone that every time I work with
                                AC I break out in a mild nervous sweat.  I've seen enough accidents and heard so many stories
                                that I have a very healthy respect for electricity.

                                Glenn N wrote:
                                Not sure on your mill but on my DM45 I had to add a wire between switch and motor to convert to 110 from 220 (decided not to and went with 220 it came wired for)  So you should be able to convert to 220 more easily than the other way around and if your motor is like mine you could just make the connection changes at the motor and change the plug.  The thing to know is that the drum switchs for 220 on these machines typically only switch one leg of the 220 so you always have a hot lead to the motor.  If the motor winding shorts to ground it will continue to run and smoke even after you turn off the switch.  (voice of experience)  I now have seperate switches for on/off and fwd/revs so both legs are switched.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:28 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                                Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? 
                                Do I have to alter the barrel switch?  I have an Enco mill/drill.

                                racerxl500 wrote:

                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@... > wrote:
                                >
                                > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                                >
                                Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.


                                _,___


                                -- 
                                   \\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\----- ++++*0*++ ++-----// ///////// ///////
                                       No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                         ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                                 ~~~********* ********* **Alex Fraser****** ********* *****~~~
                                         ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                                [[[[[[~~^^^# ___=>>>```/\/\**O** /\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]] ]]]]
                                
                                


                                -- 
                                   \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
                                       No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                         --------------------------------------------------------
                                 ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
                                         --------------------------------------------------------
                                [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
                                
                                
                              • Glenn N
                                Alex, I didn t take it that way .. just had to have some fun. It really does boil down to ya gotta look at what your particular arrangement is and go from
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                  Alex,
                                  I didn't take it that way .. just had to have some fun.
                                  It really does boil down to ya gotta look at what your particular arrangement is and go from there.  In my experience it is more difficult to go from 220 to 110 than the other way so it should be fairly simple...once you figure out what the connections mean...
                                  The other thing you may want to look at while you are in ther is the motor caps.  The chineese ones have a very high failure rate and are hard on the motor.  First symptom is slow starting in high gear.  I let mine go too long before I replaced them and the motor let the smoke out about a year later.  (the short to grond excitement)
                                   
                                  Best of luck
                                  Glenn
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:17 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                                  Hey Glenn,

                                      I wasn't faulting your answer for lack of detail.  The liability comment
                                  was generic in nature.  You have been very helpful. 

                                  I was looking for peoples experiences in conversions, "blue arc" to "works great"
                                  and you supplied a good example of both.


                                      On the one side you have theory
                                  and on the other you have experience. 
                                  They  dance together,
                                  sometimes a waltz,
                                  sometimes a crazy dance. 

                                      I'm going to have to set aside some time to study this beast.  I've found looking at the other guys drawings
                                  don't teach you as much as making your own.  The act of drawing the line between two points can lead
                                  to some interesting neuron cascades.  Lots of coffee helps too.


                                  Glenn N wrote:

                                  Alex,
                                  The lack of detail in my answer had nothing to do with liability, but was directly related to the lack of detail in the question :)
                                  Seems none of these mills are wired the same and there are several different motors and drum switches involved.  There is a motor wiring folder in the files section that address the 110/220 connections. .if you can make sense out of their circuit drawings.  You also don't mention if your native power is 220, I just assumed you were in the US.  If you do use the drum switch be extra cautious with the grounding.  I found it easier to just replace the switch with two toggle switches.
                                  Short answer yeah, I think you can just change the wires at the motor.
                                  Let us know if I am correct ... or have someone else let us know if I was wrong LOL.
                                  Glenn
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:00 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                                  Thanks Glenn

                                      I had to go out in the garage and look at the model number. 
                                  Mine is an Enco 105-1110.

                                      I'll have to read up a bit on reversing single phase motors.
                                  If not for the reversing, the conversion would be easier.  It seems it
                                  would simplify things to separate on/off from fwd/reverse.  I have to
                                  model it in my mind  so I'll have to separate -/0 and f/r to understand it anyway.

                                      The industrial training I had didn't cover single phase used in
                                  machine tools, it just isn't used very much for power applications.
                                  None of my texts cover it.

                                      One worry I have is being able to use the machine with no apparent problems
                                  until I measure the potential between it and another 240v  machine next to it.
                                  I guess there would be no problem as I'm getting the juice from the same breaker.

                                      I can understand a certain reluctance in giving out detailed answers, there is the
                                  threat of liability hanging over us.  I must assure everyone that every time I work with
                                  AC I break out in a mild nervous sweat.  I've seen enough accidents and heard so many stories
                                  that I have a very healthy respect for electricity.

                                  Glenn N wrote:
                                  Not sure on your mill but on my DM45 I had to add a wire between switch and motor to convert to 110 from 220 (decided not to and went with 220 it came wired for)  So you should be able to convert to 220 more easily than the other way around and if your motor is like mine you could just make the connection changes at the motor and change the plug.  The thing to know is that the drum switchs for 220 on these machines typically only switch one leg of the 220 so you always have a hot lead to the motor.  If the motor winding shorts to ground it will continue to run and smoke even after you turn off the switch.  (voice of experience)  I now have seperate switches for on/off and fwd/revs so both legs are switched.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:28 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion

                                  Do you think all I have to do to convert from 110 is switch the motor windings? 
                                  Do I have to alter the barrel switch?  I have an Enco mill/drill.

                                  racerxl500 wrote:

                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "Charles Owen" <cbowen4@... > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Why would you want to? 110 you can just plug into the wall. 220 will require a special circuit and there's absolutely no benefit at all. You don't get more power. It won't start any faster. It won't run any cooler. Never can figure out why this is such a popular thing to do.
                                  >
                                  Results in more balanced loads on the power buss. I like to run heavy machine - compressor, lathe, mill, etc on 220 so they don't load one power leg or the other excessively.


                                  _,___


                                  -- 
                                     \\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\----- ++++*0*++ ++-----// ///////// ///////
                                         No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                           ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                                   ~~~********* ********* **Alex Fraser****** ********* *****~~~
                                           ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
                                  [[[[[[~~^^^# ___=>>>```/\/\**O** /\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]] ]]]]
                                  
                                  


                                  -- 
                                     \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\-----++++*0*++++-----//////////////////
                                         No electrons were harmed in the creation of this message
                                           --------------------------------------------------------
                                   ~~~********************Alex Fraser********************~~~
                                           --------------------------------------------------------
                                  [[[[[[~~^^^#___=>>>```/\/\**O**/\/\```<<<=___#^^^~~]]]]]]
                                  
                                  
                                • Paul J. Kettle, Jr.
                                  Running a heavy load on one 110 volt leg of a 220 circuit can have some interesting results. Depending on what is wired to the same leg as the load and what
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                    Running a heavy load on one 110 volt leg of a 220 circuit can have some interesting results.  Depending on what is wired to the same leg as the load and what is on the other leg, you can burn out appliances like microwave ovens.  At the very least, your incandescent light bulbs will get dimmer or brighter as the return current lessens on the neutral and flows through the heavy load.
                                     
                                    Paul
                                  • Curt Wuollet
                                    Even better is when you burn open the neutral and the voltage divides according to load. I once saw about 10 light bulbs become flash bulbs at once and a TV
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                      Even better is when you burn
                                      open the neutral and the voltage
                                      divides according to load. I once
                                      saw about 10 light bulbs become
                                      flash bulbs at once and a TV set
                                      smoked. A guy was replacing a
                                      receptacle hot and opened the
                                      neutral in a kitchen wired with
                                      split circuits.

                                      Regards
                                      cww

                                      Paul J. Kettle, Jr. wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Running a heavy load on one 110 volt leg of a 220 circuit can have
                                      > some interesting results. Depending on what is wired to the same leg
                                      > as the load and what is on the other leg, you can burn out appliances
                                      > like microwave ovens. At the very least, your incandescent light
                                      > bulbs will get dimmer or brighter as the return current lessens on the
                                      > neutral and flows through the heavy load.
                                      >
                                      > Paul
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Druid Noibn
                                      Hi,   That is funny - but I have a strange sense of humor.    Of course, the party that wired the kitchen should be avoided for future work.    Take care,
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                        Hi,
                                         
                                        That is funny - but I have a strange sense of humor. 
                                         
                                        Of course, the party that wired the kitchen should be avoided for future work. 
                                         
                                        Take care,
                                        DBN

                                        --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...> wrote:

                                        From: Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                                        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 11:30 PM

                                        Even better is when you burn
                                        open the neutral and the voltage
                                        divides according to load. I once
                                        saw about 10 light bulbs become
                                        flash bulbs at once and a TV set
                                        smoked. A guy was replacing a
                                        receptacle hot and opened the
                                        neutral in a kitchen wired with
                                        split circuits.

                                        Regards
                                        cww

                                        Paul J. Kettle, Jr. wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Running a heavy load on one 110 volt leg of a 220 circuit can have
                                        > some interesting results. Depending on what is wired to the same leg
                                        > as the load and what is on the other leg, you can burn out appliances
                                        > like microwave ovens. At the very least, your incandescent light
                                        > bulbs will get dimmer or brighter as the return current lessens on the
                                        > neutral and flows through the heavy load.
                                        >
                                        > Paul
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                      • Curt Wuollet
                                        That s why you should work on split circuits only when they are dead. Actually, unless you have a good reason, you should only work on any line voltage circuit
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                          That's why you should work on
                                          split circuits only when they are
                                          dead. Actually, unless you have
                                          a good reason, you should only
                                          work on any line voltage circuit
                                          when it is dead.

                                          Regards

                                          cww

                                          Druid Noibn wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Hi,
                                          >
                                          > That is funny - but I have a strange sense of humor.
                                          >
                                          > Of course, the party that wired the kitchen should be avoided for
                                          > future work.
                                          >
                                          > Take care,
                                          > DBN
                                          >
                                          > --- On *Mon, 6/29/09, Curt Wuollet /<wideopen1@...>/* wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...>
                                          > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                                          > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 11:30 PM
                                          >
                                          > Even better is when you burn
                                          > open the neutral and the voltage
                                          > divides according to load. I once
                                          > saw about 10 light bulbs become
                                          > flash bulbs at once and a TV set
                                          > smoked. A guy was replacing a
                                          > receptacle hot and opened the
                                          > neutral in a kitchen wired with
                                          > split circuits.
                                          >
                                          > Regards
                                          > cww
                                          >
                                          > Paul J. Kettle, Jr. wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Running a heavy load on one 110 volt leg of a 220 circuit can have
                                          > > some interesting results. Depending on what is wired to the same
                                          > leg
                                          > > as the load and what is on the other leg, you can burn out
                                          > appliances
                                          > > like microwave ovens. At the very least, your incandescent light
                                          > > bulbs will get dimmer or brighter as the return current lessens
                                          > on the
                                          > > neutral and flows through the heavy load.
                                          > >
                                          > > Paul
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Druid Noibn
                                          Hi Curt,   Some decades back, I would routiely work on live circuits, many times, there was little choice as it was the nature of the work I did.    Today,
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                            Hi Curt,
                                             
                                            Some decades back, I would routiely work on live circuits, many times, there was little choice as it was the nature of the work I did. 
                                             
                                            Today, I am much more conservative.
                                             
                                            Take care,
                                            DBN

                                            --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...> wrote:

                                            From: Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...>
                                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                                            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 12:15 AM

                                            That's why you should work on
                                            split circuits only when they are
                                            dead. Actually, unless you have
                                            a good reason, you should only
                                            work on any line voltage circuit
                                            when it is dead.

                                            Regards

                                            cww

                                            Druid Noibn wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hi,
                                            >
                                            > That is funny - but I have a strange sense of humor.
                                            >
                                            > Of course, the party that wired the kitchen should be avoided for
                                            > future work.
                                            >
                                            > Take care,
                                            > DBN
                                            >
                                            > --- On *Mon, 6/29/09, Curt Wuollet /<wideopen1@frontiern et.net>/* wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@frontiern et.net>
                                            > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                                            > To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                                            > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 11:30 PM
                                            >
                                            > Even better is when you burn
                                            > open the neutral and the voltage
                                            > divides according to load. I once
                                            > saw about 10 light bulbs become
                                            > flash bulbs at once and a TV set
                                            > smoked. A guy was replacing a
                                            > receptacle hot and opened the
                                            > neutral in a kitchen wired with
                                            > split circuits.
                                            >
                                            > Regards
                                            > cww
                                            >
                                            > Paul J. Kettle, Jr. wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Running a heavy load on one 110 volt leg of a 220 circuit can have
                                            > > some interesting results. Depending on what is wired to the same
                                            > leg
                                            > > as the load and what is on the other leg, you can burn out
                                            > appliances
                                            > > like microwave ovens. At the very least, your incandescent light
                                            > > bulbs will get dimmer or brighter as the return current lessens
                                            > on the
                                            > > neutral and flows through the heavy load.
                                            > >
                                            > > Paul
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                          • Curt Wuollet
                                            Me too, but what I consider a good reason has changed a lot since I started. Nowadays there isn t a good reason for 480 and above. Regards cww
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jun 29, 2009
                                              Me too, but what I consider a good reason
                                              has changed a lot since I started. Nowadays
                                              there isn't a good reason for 480 and above.

                                              Regards
                                              cww

                                              Druid Noibn wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hi Curt,
                                              >
                                              > Some decades back, I would routiely work on live circuits, many times,
                                              > there was little choice as it was the nature of the work I did.
                                              >
                                              > Today, I am much more conservative.
                                              >
                                              > Take care,
                                              > DBN
                                              >
                                              > --- On *Tue, 6/30/09, Curt Wuollet /<wideopen1@...>/* wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...>
                                              > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                                              > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 12:15 AM
                                              >
                                              > That's why you should work on
                                              > split circuits only when they are
                                              > dead. Actually, unless you have
                                              > a good reason, you should only
                                              > work on any line voltage circuit
                                              > when it is dead.
                                              >
                                              > Regards
                                              >
                                              > cww
                                              >
                                              > Druid Noibn wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Hi,
                                              > >
                                              > > That is funny - but I have a strange sense of humor.
                                              > >
                                              > > Of course, the party that wired the kitchen should be avoided for
                                              > > future work.
                                              > >
                                              > > Take care,
                                              > > DBN
                                              > >
                                              > > --- On *Mon, 6/29/09, Curt Wuollet /<wideopen1@frontiern et.net
                                              > <http://us.mc554.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wideopen1%40frontiernet.net>>/*
                                              > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > From: Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@frontiern et.net
                                              > <http://us.mc554.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wideopen1%40frontiernet.net>>
                                              > > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: 220 conversion
                                              > > To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                                              > <http://us.mc554.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mill_drill%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 11:30 PM
                                              > >
                                              > > Even better is when you burn
                                              > > open the neutral and the voltage
                                              > > divides according to load. I once
                                              > > saw about 10 light bulbs become
                                              > > flash bulbs at once and a TV set
                                              > > smoked. A guy was replacing a
                                              > > receptacle hot and opened the
                                              > > neutral in a kitchen wired with
                                              > > split circuits.
                                              > >
                                              > > Regards
                                              > > cww
                                              > >
                                              > > Paul J. Kettle, Jr. wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Running a heavy load on one 110 volt leg of a 220 circuit can have
                                              > > > some interesting results. Depending on what is wired to the same
                                              > > leg
                                              > > > as the load and what is on the other leg, you can burn out
                                              > > appliances
                                              > > > like microwave ovens. At the very least, your incandescent light
                                              > > > bulbs will get dimmer or brighter as the return current lessens
                                              > > on the
                                              > > > neutral and flows through the heavy load.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Paul
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.