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Shop Question - dust, humidity

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  • druid_noibn
    Hi, Looking for opinions - really. My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 4, 2009
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      Hi,

      Looking for opinions - really.

      My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for the tools and other "stuff."

      I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company happy.

      The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.

      I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable alternative.

      So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are appreciated.

      Take care,
      DBN
    • starbolin
      DBN; Definitely seal. Just paint won t do. Get a masonary sealer. Goes on with a roller with a texture a little like glue. Then paint over that. For the
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 4, 2009
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        DBN;

        Definitely seal. Just paint won't do. Get a masonary sealer. Goes on with a roller with a texture a little like glue. Then paint over that.

        For the floor first you etch with a concrete etchant, then seal, then paint with a floor paint. Two part industrial epoxy is the best but the one part system are pretty good.

        Ventilation is also very important. I was once a sailor and the only way to keep keep a boat at less than 100% humidity was to ventilate, ventilate, ventilate.

        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@...> wrote:
        >
        ...
        > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for the tools and other "stuff."
        >
        ... The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
        >
        > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. ...
        >
        ...
      • Druid Noibn
        Hi,   THANKS, I appreciate the comments and will look into it.   Take care, DBN ... From: starbolin Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 4, 2009
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          Hi,
           
          THANKS, I appreciate the comments and will look into it.
           
          Take care,
          DBN

          --- On Thu, 6/4/09, starbolin <starbolins@...> wrote:

          From: starbolin <starbolins@...>
          Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 6:48 PM

          DBN;

          Definitely seal. Just paint won't do. Get a masonary sealer. Goes on with a roller with a texture a little like glue. Then paint over that.

          For the floor first you etch with a concrete etchant, then seal, then paint with a floor paint. Two part industrial epoxy is the best but the one part system are pretty good.

          Ventilation is also very important. I was once a sailor and the only way to keep keep a boat at less than 100% humidity was to ventilate, ventilate, ventilate.

          --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...> wrote:
          >
          ...
          > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for the tools and other "stuff."
          >
          ... The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
          >
          > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. ...
          >
          ...


        • mark
          I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think. I have a house
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
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            I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
            asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

            I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
            under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
            Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
            summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
            with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
            you off a piece and mail it to you)

            Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
            prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
            floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

            The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
            the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
            on the vapor entering the basement will help.

            Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

            The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
            of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
            moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
            solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
            anything you put down will fail.

            I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
            than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
            down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
            of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
            70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
            If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
            run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
            80%.

            The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
            return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
            just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
            settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
            with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

            Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
            the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
            combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

            I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
            on stuff, until I went at it like this.

            Mark


            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > Looking for opinions - really.
            >
            > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
            always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
            the tools and other "stuff."
            >
            > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
            happy.
            >
            > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
            that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
            the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
            >
            > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
            solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
            and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
            and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
            alternative.
            >
            > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
            appreciated.
            >
            > Take care,
            > DBN
            >
          • JohnW
            A sump pump can easily be added to drain water away from the floor and to some extent away from the walls. It s a much easier retrofit that digging in drains.
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
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              A sump pump can easily be added to drain water away from the floor and to some extent away from the walls. It's a much easier retrofit that digging in drains.

              We have a problem with low humitidy, nose bleeds, cracked lips, dry eyes etc. But tools stay nice and rust free.

              JohnW

              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <gmiller4396@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
              > asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.
              >
              > I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
              > under the floor and no foundation drains.
            • Druid Noibn
              Hi Mark,   All is good - thanks.   There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Mark,
                 
                All is good - thanks.
                 
                There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a dehumidifier and my electric bill was an unpleasent surprise - I need to check on this a bit more.
                 
                The thought was to reduce the amount of moisture hence the idea of using "paint" or better stated a sealer.  The idea for the paint was to block some of the pores vs. sealing the surface.  I would not be surprised that the bond would fail and generate even more dust, if there was high hydrostatic pressure. 
                 
                As noted, there is no visible water so I may just have too much uncoated surface area (speculating a bit). 
                 
                Again, many thanks for the ideas - greatly appreciated!

                Take care,
                DBN
                --- On Fri, 6/5/09, mark <gmiller4396@...> wrote:

                From: mark <gmiller4396@...>
                Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:57 AM


                I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

                I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
                Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
                summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
                with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
                you off a piece and mail it to you)

                Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
                prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
                floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

                The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
                the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
                on the vapor entering the basement will help.

                Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

                The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
                of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
                moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
                solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
                anything you put down will fail.

                I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
                than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
                down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
                of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
                70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
                If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
                run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
                80%.

                The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
                return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
                just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
                settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
                with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

                Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
                the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
                combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

                I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
                on stuff, until I went at it like this.

                Mark

                --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi,
                >
                > Looking for opinions - really.
                >
                > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
                always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
                the tools and other "stuff."
                >
                > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
                happy.
                >
                > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
                that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
                the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
                >
                > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
                solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
                and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
                and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
                alternative.
                >
                > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
                appreciated.
                >
                > Take care,
                > DBN
                >


              • Druid Noibn
                Hi John,   Might be woth considering.  While I do not see water collecting, if a trench is made and a pump used, it might help.   I need to do some
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
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                  Hi John,
                   
                  Might be woth considering.  While I do not see water collecting, if a trench is made and a pump used, it might help.
                   
                  I need to do some checking.
                   
                  Take care,
                  DBN 

                  --- On Fri, 6/5/09, JohnW <John.Walker@...> wrote:

                  From: JohnW <John.Walker@...>
                  Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 1:48 PM

                  A sump pump can easily be added to drain water away from the floor and to some extent away from the walls. It's a much easier retrofit that digging in drains.

                  We have a problem with low humitidy, nose bleeds, cracked lips, dry eyes etc. But tools stay nice and rust free.

                  JohnW

                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "mark" <gmiller4396@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                  > asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.
                  >
                  > I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                  > under the floor and no foundation drains.


                • Cliff. Johnston
                  If you re in the States, Sealoflex makes some excellent products for waterproofing, both above and below grade. I used to do waterproofing and was very
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
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                    If you're in the States, Sealoflex makes some excellent products for waterproofing, both above and below grade.  I used to do waterproofing and was very pleased with their products.  They're based in Atlanta, if I recall correctly.
                     
                    Cliff. Johnston
                    "May the best you've ever seen,
                     Be the worst you'll ever see;"
                    from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:29 PM
                    Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                    Hi Mark,
                     
                    All is good - thanks.
                     
                    There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a dehumidifier and my electric bill was an unpleasent surprise - I need to check on this a bit more.
                     
                    The thought was to reduce the amount of moisture hence the idea of using "paint" or better stated a sealer.  The idea for the paint was to block some of the pores vs. sealing the surface.  I would not be surprised that the bond would fail and generate even more dust, if there was high hydrostatic pressure. 
                     
                    As noted, there is no visible water so I may just have too much uncoated surface area (speculating a bit). 
                     
                    Again, many thanks for the ideas - greatly appreciated!

                    Take care,
                    DBN
                    --- On Fri, 6/5/09, mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                    From: mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com>
                    Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                    To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                    Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:57 AM


                    I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                    asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

                    I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                    under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
                    Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
                    summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
                    with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
                    you off a piece and mail it to you)

                    Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
                    prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
                    floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

                    The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
                    the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
                    on the vapor entering the basement will help.

                    Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

                    The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
                    of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
                    moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
                    solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
                    anything you put down will fail.

                    I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
                    than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
                    down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
                    of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
                    70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
                    If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
                    run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
                    80%.

                    The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
                    return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
                    just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
                    settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
                    with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

                    Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
                    the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
                    combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

                    I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
                    on stuff, until I went at it like this.

                    Mark

                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > Looking for opinions - really.
                    >
                    > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
                    always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
                    the tools and other "stuff."
                    >
                    > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
                    happy.
                    >
                    > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
                    that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
                    the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
                    >
                    > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
                    solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
                    and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
                    and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
                    alternative.
                    >
                    > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
                    appreciated.
                    >
                    > Take care,
                    > DBN
                    >


                  • Rexarino
                    Druid, my Oregon basement has a small channel in the concrete(?) all around the perimeter for the seep water to drain into. Part of the floor is covered with
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
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                      Druid, my Oregon basement has a small channel in the concrete(?) all around the perimeter for the seep water to drain into.  Part of the floor is covered with linoleum squares, glued down with the old tar-like glue  This has retained it's integrity for at least 30 years (it's too ugly to go away).  

                      In another area the concrete surface has eroded down to the gravel/rock level.  In a small test, I applied a layer of sand and cement  with an admixture of a latex product (high cement, per instructions on the product) from the masonry supply (looks, smells and acts like the old white Elmer's glue, but costs 5 times as much), varying in thickness from an eighth inch to a half inch, and it has stayed in place, crack free and with little moisture permeation for 20+ years.  

                      Since then, I've been told that common latex paint mixed with sand and cement will adhere to moisture prone concrete and reduce the water permeation.  I've not tried it, because SWMBO has other projects higher on the list.  When I go back to it, I'll play with Elmer's, latex primer, sand and cement and see what formula works - but that's a couple of years away.  

                      Then I'll attach closed cell foam to the walls to cover the efflorescence and try to slow down the weeping from the large cracks with a bentonite injection.  If, like me, you have efflorescence, there are 229,000 Google hits to research.

                      Sometimes a house seems like a hole in the ground to shovel money and effort into...

                      Rex  

                      On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, druid_noibn <druid_noibn@...> wrote:
                      Hi,

                      Looking for opinions - really.

                      My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ.  There is always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for the tools and other "stuff."

                      I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company happy.

                      The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint that will close up the pores a bit.  I do not have collecting water and the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.

                      I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable alternative.

                      So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are appreciated.

                      Take care,
                      DBN

                    • STANLEY GRAY
                      hello chaps there are some tanking slurry s that are a cement based that will stop water permeating thro the wall but once you have applied it you cannot but
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        hello chaps
                        there are some tanking slurry's that are a cement based that will stop water permeating thro the wall but
                        once you have applied it you cannot but any holes in.I am in the uk so i wouldnt know the names in usa
                         hope this helps
                        stan gray
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         

                         


                        From: Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@...>
                        To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, 5 June, 2009 7:29:12 PM
                        Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                        Hi Mark,
                         
                        All is good - thanks.
                         
                        There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a dehumidifier and my electric bill was an unpleasent surprise - I need to check on this a bit more.
                         
                        The thought was to reduce the amount of moisture hence the idea of using "paint" or better stated a sealer.  The idea for the paint was to block some of the pores vs. sealing the surface.  I would not be surprised that the bond would fail and generate even more dust, if there was high hydrostatic pressure. 
                         
                        As noted, there is no visible water so I may just have too much uncoated surface area (speculating a bit). 
                         
                        Again, many thanks for the ideas - greatly appreciated!

                        Take care,
                        DBN
                        --- On Fri, 6/5/09, mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                        From: mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com>
                        Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                        To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                        Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:57 AM


                        I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                        asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

                        I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                        under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
                        Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
                        summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
                        with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
                        you off a piece and mail it to you)

                        Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
                        prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
                        floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

                        The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
                        the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
                        on the vapor entering the basement will help.

                        Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

                        The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
                        of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
                        moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
                        solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
                        anything you put down will fail.

                        I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
                        than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
                        down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
                        of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
                        70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
                        If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
                        run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
                        80%.

                        The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
                        return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
                        just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
                        settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
                        with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

                        Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
                        the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
                        combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

                        I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
                        on stuff, until I went at it like this.

                        Mark

                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > Looking for opinions - really.
                        >
                        > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
                        always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
                        the tools and other "stuff."
                        >
                        > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
                        happy.
                        >
                        > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
                        that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
                        the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
                        >
                        > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
                        solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
                        and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
                        and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
                        alternative.
                        >
                        > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
                        appreciated.
                        >
                        > Take care,
                        > DBN
                        >


                      • Druid Noibn
                        Hi Cliff,   Indeed I am - Thank You for the reference, I ll check it out.   Take care, DBN ... From: Cliff. Johnston Subject:
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Cliff,
                           
                          Indeed I am - Thank You for the reference, I'll check it out.
                           
                          Take care,
                          DBN

                          --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@...> wrote:

                          From: Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@...>
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 4:16 PM

                          If you're in the States, Sealoflex makes some excellent products for waterproofing, both above and below grade.  I used to do waterproofing and was very pleased with their products.  They're based in Atlanta, if I recall correctly.
                           
                          Cliff. Johnston
                          "May the best you've ever seen,
                           Be the worst you'll ever see;"
                          from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:29 PM
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                          Hi Mark,
                           
                          All is good - thanks.
                           
                          There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a dehumidifier and my electric bill was an unpleasent surprise - I need to check on this a bit more.
                           
                          The thought was to reduce the amount of moisture hence the idea of using "paint" or better stated a sealer.  The idea for the paint was to block some of the pores vs. sealing the surface.  I would not be surprised that the bond would fail and generate even more dust, if there was high hydrostatic pressure. 
                           
                          As noted, there is no visible water so I may just have too much uncoated surface area (speculating a bit). 
                           
                          Again, many thanks for the ideas - greatly appreciated!

                          Take care,
                          DBN
                          --- On Fri, 6/5/09, mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                          From: mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com>
                          Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                          To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                          Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:57 AM


                          I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                          asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

                          I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                          under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
                          Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
                          summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
                          with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
                          you off a piece and mail it to you)

                          Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
                          prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
                          floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

                          The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
                          the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
                          on the vapor entering the basement will help.

                          Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

                          The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
                          of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
                          moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
                          solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
                          anything you put down will fail.

                          I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
                          than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
                          down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
                          of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
                          70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
                          If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
                          run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
                          80%.

                          The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
                          return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
                          just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
                          settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
                          with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

                          Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
                          the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
                          combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

                          I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
                          on stuff, until I went at it like this.

                          Mark

                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > Looking for opinions - really.
                          >
                          > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
                          always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
                          the tools and other "stuff."
                          >
                          > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
                          happy.
                          >
                          > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
                          that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
                          the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
                          >
                          > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
                          solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
                          and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
                          and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
                          alternative.
                          >
                          > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
                          appreciated.
                          >
                          > Take care,
                          > DBN
                          >



                        • Druid Noibn
                          Hi Rex,   I m on the other side of the States - NJ.   Your description indicates several issues and it looks like an acid treatment is needed.   I know the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Rex,
                             
                            I'm on the other side of the States - NJ.
                             
                            Your description indicates several issues and it looks like an acid treatment is needed.
                             
                            I know the "Elmer's Glue" stuff you speak of and as near as I can tell, it is nearly identical.  I think this product is best on walls...?  The "problem" with this circa 30s house is that the basement floor really needs to be removed and a new one poured.  Worse, I am not going to do it <grin> although I did think of it some 34 years ago when I moved in.
                             
                            So, with the basement well-stocked with "stuff" - SWMBO uses another term - all around, the indication of what to be done is pointing at something sprayable or brushable.  The cement/glue composition requires the arms of a weight-lifter to apply and I believe a pre-made version is called Thoroseal (sp?).  My brother used it and while he liked it he noted that it was a lot of effort to apply.  We are both a lot older now.
                             
                            The idea is on-the-table and probbaly the better way to go, so Thanks for the reminder!   
                             
                            Take care,
                            DBN

                            --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Rexarino <rexarino@...> wrote:

                            From: Rexarino <rexarino@...>
                            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Shop Question - dust, humidity
                            To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 4:19 PM

                            Druid, my Oregon basement has a small channel in the concrete(?) all around the perimeter for the seep water to drain into.  Part of the floor is covered with linoleum squares, glued down with the old tar-like glue  This has retained it's integrity for  at least 30 years (it's too ugly to go away).  

                            In another area the concrete surface has eroded down to the gravel/rock level.  In a small test, I applied a layer of sand and cement  with an admixture of a latex product (high cement, per instructions on the product) from the masonry supply (looks, smells and acts like the old white Elmer's glue, but costs 5 times as much), varying in thickness from an eighth inch to a half inch, and it has stayed in place, crack free and with little moisture permeation for 20+ years.  

                            Since then, I've been told that common latex paint mixed with sand and cement will adhere to moisture prone concrete and reduce the water permeation.  I've not tried it, because SWMBO has other projects higher on the list.  When I go back to it, I'll play with Elmer's, latex primer, sand and cement and see what formula works - but that's a couple of years away.  

                            Then I'll attach closed cell foam to the walls to cover the efflorescence and try to slow down the weeping from the large cracks with a bentonite injection.  If, like me, you have efflorescence, there are 229,000 Google hits to research.

                            Sometimes a house seems like a hole in the ground to shovel money and effort into...

                            Rex  

                            On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, druid_noibn <druid_noibn@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                            Hi,

                            Looking for opinions - really.

                            My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ.  There is always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for the tools and other "stuff."

                            I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company happy.

                            The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint that will close up the pores a bit.  I do not have collecting water and the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.

                            I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable alternative.

                            So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are appreciated.

                            Take care,
                            DBN


                          • Druid Noibn
                            Hi Stan,   Yes, we have that material here - I fogot the name - and the pricing is comparable.   The problem I think I am addressing might not (I hope)
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Stan,
                               
                              Yes, we have that material here - I fogot the name - and the pricing is comparable.
                               
                              The problem I think I am addressing might not (I hope) require this type of material and the preparation for use. 
                               
                              Good items to evaluate - Thanks!
                               
                              Take care,
                              DBN

                              --- On Fri, 6/5/09, STANLEY GRAY <stylestitch@...> wrote:

                              From: STANLEY GRAY <stylestitch@...>
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                              To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 4:29 PM

                              hello chaps
                              there are some tanking slurry's that are a cement based that will stop water permeating thro the wall but
                              once you have applied it you cannot but any holes in.I am in the uk so i wouldnt know the names in usa
                               hope this helps
                              stan gray
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               

                               


                              From: Druid Noibn <druid_noibn@ yahoo.com>
                              To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                              Sent: Friday, 5 June, 2009 7:29:12 PM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                              Hi Mark,
                               
                              All is good - thanks.
                               
                              There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a dehumidifier and my electric bill was an unpleasent surprise - I need to check on this a bit more.
                               
                              The thought was to reduce the amount of moisture hence the idea of using "paint" or better stated a sealer.  The idea for the paint was to block some of the pores vs. sealing the surface.  I would not be surprised that the bond would fail and generate even more dust, if there was high hydrostatic pressure. 
                               
                              As noted, there is no visible water so I may just have too much uncoated surface area (speculating a bit). 
                               
                              Again, many thanks for the ideas - greatly appreciated!

                              Take care,
                              DBN
                              --- On Fri, 6/5/09, mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                              From: mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com>
                              Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                              To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                              Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:57 AM


                              I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                              asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

                              I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                              under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
                              Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
                              summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
                              with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
                              you off a piece and mail it to you)

                              Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
                              prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
                              floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

                              The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
                              the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
                              on the vapor entering the basement will help.

                              Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

                              The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
                              of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
                              moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
                              solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
                              anything you put down will fail.

                              I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
                              than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
                              down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
                              of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
                              70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
                              If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
                              run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
                              80%.

                              The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
                              return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
                              just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
                              settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
                              with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

                              Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
                              the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
                              combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

                              I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
                              on stuff, until I went at it like this.

                              Mark

                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              >
                              > Looking for opinions - really.
                              >
                              > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
                              always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
                              the tools and other "stuff."
                              >
                              > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
                              happy.
                              >
                              > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
                              that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
                              the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
                              >
                              > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
                              solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
                              and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
                              and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
                              alternative.
                              >
                              > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
                              appreciated.
                              >
                              > Take care,
                              > DBN
                              >



                            • Cliff. Johnston
                              DBN, You re welcome. I ve got their 800 number too: 800-770-6466 It s been a few years since I ve used it though, and it may not be current, but it doesn t
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                DBN,
                                 
                                You're welcome.  I've got their 800 number too:  800-770-6466  It's been a few years since I've used it though, and it may not be current, but it doesn't hurt to try.  I just never deleted it from my cell phone directory.  They're very helpful with advice.
                                 
                                Cliff.
                                "May the best you've ever seen,
                                 Be the worst you'll ever see;"
                                from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:44 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                                Hi Cliff,
                                 
                                Indeed I am - Thank You for the reference, I'll check it out.
                                 
                                Take care,
                                DBN

                                --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@ comcast.net> wrote:

                                From: Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@ comcast.net>
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                                To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                                Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 4:16 PM

                                If you're in the States, Sealoflex makes some excellent products for waterproofing, both above and below grade.  I used to do waterproofing and was very pleased with their products.  They're based in Atlanta, if I recall correctly.
                                 
                                Cliff. Johnston
                                "May the best you've ever seen,
                                 Be the worst you'll ever see;"
                                from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:29 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                                Hi Mark,
                                 
                                All is good - thanks.
                                 
                                There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a dehumidifier and my electric bill was an unpleasent surprise - I need to check on this a bit more.
                                 
                                The thought was to reduce the amount of moisture hence the idea of using "paint" or better stated a sealer.  The idea for the paint was to block some of the pores vs. sealing the surface.  I would not be surprised that the bond would fail and generate even more dust, if there was high hydrostatic pressure. 
                                 
                                As noted, there is no visible water so I may just have too much uncoated surface area (speculating a bit). 
                                 
                                Again, many thanks for the ideas - greatly appreciated!

                                Take care,
                                DBN
                                --- On Fri, 6/5/09, mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                From: mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com>
                                Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                                To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                                Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:57 AM


                                I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                                asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

                                I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                                under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
                                Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
                                summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
                                with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
                                you off a piece and mail it to you)

                                Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
                                prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
                                floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

                                The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
                                the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
                                on the vapor entering the basement will help.

                                Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

                                The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
                                of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
                                moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
                                solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
                                anything you put down will fail.

                                I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
                                than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
                                down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
                                of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
                                70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
                                If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
                                run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
                                80%.

                                The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
                                return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
                                just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
                                settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
                                with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

                                Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
                                the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
                                combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

                                I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
                                on stuff, until I went at it like this.

                                Mark

                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi,
                                >
                                > Looking for opinions - really.
                                >
                                > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
                                always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
                                the tools and other "stuff."
                                >
                                > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
                                happy.
                                >
                                > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
                                that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
                                the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
                                >
                                > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
                                solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
                                and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
                                and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
                                alternative.
                                >
                                > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
                                appreciated.
                                >
                                > Take care,
                                > DBN
                                >



                              • Druid Noibn
                                Hi Cliff,   That s Great - thanks.   Take care, DBN ... From: Cliff. Johnston Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question -
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 5, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Cliff,
                                   
                                  That's Great - thanks.
                                   
                                  Take care,
                                  DBN

                                  --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@...> wrote:

                                  From: Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 5:29 PM

                                  DBN,
                                   
                                  You're welcome.  I've got their 800 number too:  800-770-6466  It's been a few years since I've used it though, and it may not be current, but it doesn't hurt to try.  I just never deleted it from my cell phone directory.  They're very helpful with advice.
                                   
                                  Cliff.
                                  "May the best you've ever seen,
                                   Be the worst you'll ever see;"
                                  from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:44 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                                  Hi Cliff,
                                   
                                  Indeed I am - Thank You for the reference, I'll check it out.
                                   
                                  Take care,
                                  DBN

                                  --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@ comcast.net> wrote:

                                  From: Cliff. Johnston <moments-in-time@ comcast.net>
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                                  To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 4:16 PM

                                  If you're in the States, Sealoflex makes some excellent products for waterproofing, both above and below grade.  I used to do waterproofing and was very pleased with their products.  They're based in Atlanta, if I recall correctly.
                                   
                                  Cliff. Johnston
                                  "May the best you've ever seen,
                                   Be the worst you'll ever see;"
                                  from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:29 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity

                                  Hi Mark,
                                   
                                  All is good - thanks.
                                   
                                  There is no doubt that there is water vapor is permeating the floor and walls (the basement is below grade).  I did use a dehumidifier and my electric bill was an unpleasent surprise - I need to check on this a bit more.
                                   
                                  The thought was to reduce the amount of moisture hence the idea of using "paint" or better stated a sealer.  The idea for the paint was to block some of the pores vs. sealing the surface.  I would not be surprised that the bond would fail and generate even more dust, if there was high hydrostatic pressure. 
                                   
                                  As noted, there is no visible water so I may just have too much uncoated surface area (speculating a bit). 
                                   
                                  Again, many thanks for the ideas - greatly appreciated!

                                  Take care,
                                  DBN
                                  --- On Fri, 6/5/09, mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                  From: mark <gmiller4396@ yahoo.com>
                                  Subject: [mill_drill] Re: Shop Question - dust, humidity
                                  To: mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 8:57 AM


                                  I face a bit of the same problem you have, and after looking at it and
                                  asking around about how to lessen the problem, this is what I think.

                                  I have a house built in the 50's, block foundation, no vapor barrier
                                  under the floor and no foundation drains. I live just outside of
                                  Cincinnati, so I probably face the same huminity levels during the
                                  summer you do. ( I envy you guys out west. If you don't know what living
                                  with 80-90% humidity levels feels like, say so and I'll go out and cut
                                  you off a piece and mail it to you)

                                  Epoxy on the floor is expensive and a mess to deal with, because of the
                                  prep problems, and also, since there is no vapor barrier under the
                                  floor, you risk the failure of the bond, even using epoxy.

                                  The newer floor paint systems allow for some moisture to travel through
                                  the paint, so they are less likely to lose adhesion. Just cutting down
                                  on the vapor entering the basement will help.

                                  Multi-coats of paint on the walls will help there.

                                  The best test for vapot transfer is to fully tape down an 18"x18" piece
                                  of plastic with duct tape for at least a week. Watch it and see if
                                  moisture collects under it. If it does, no paint, or epoxy is going to
                                  solve your problems, and if the plastic is on the floor, most likely,
                                  anything you put down will fail.

                                  I run a large dehumidifier , 50 pints a day, and it's probably larger
                                  than I needed for the 1000 sq ft I'm working with, but it will get me
                                  down to about 40%, which is as good as I can hope for. It made a world
                                  of difference. When I first turn it on in the spring, the level is over
                                  70% (that's as high as the dh reads). It is loud on high, but it works.
                                  If you can cut down on the amount of moisture it has to remove, you can
                                  run it lower and quieter. I can maintain 40%, when the outside level is
                                  80%.

                                  The other important thing is to make sure you have plenty of cold air
                                  return in the basement. The AC will help to dehumidify the basement,
                                  just like the rest of the house. Moisture, being heavier than O2, will
                                  settle to the basement, so if you can circulate the air in the basement
                                  with the rest of the house air, it will make a real difference.

                                  Just make sure your cold air returns are more than 12-15 feet away from
                                  the furnace and water heater, so they don't interfere with the
                                  combustion, and it also helps to put some filtering material over them.

                                  I use to have problems with moisture , "damp" papers, mold and even rust
                                  on stuff, until I went at it like this.

                                  Mark

                                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "druid_noibn" <druid_noibn@ ...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi,
                                  >
                                  > Looking for opinions - really.
                                  >
                                  > My shop is in a basement of a circa 1930 house - northern NJ. There is
                                  always a bit of a dust problem and the humidity is a tad too high for
                                  the tools and other "stuff."
                                  >
                                  > I did run a dehumidifier which did more to keep the electric company
                                  happy.
                                  >
                                  > The thought was to seal the floors and walls a bit more with a paint
                                  that will close up the pores a bit. I do not have collecting water and
                                  the coating would likley address the dust issue as well.
                                  >
                                  > I recall offerings of floor coatings and what apperas to be dilute
                                  solutions used for spraying. The floor coatings were high solids epoxy
                                  and I don't exactly recall what the other stuff was. Trenching around
                                  and under the house and resealing doesn't look to be a viable
                                  alternative.
                                  >
                                  > So - comments, suggestions and other brilliant thoughts are
                                  appreciated.
                                  >
                                  > Take care,
                                  > DBN
                                  >




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