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Re: [mill_drill] Re: Want opinions on vise choice quick please!

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  • Terry Coombs
    ... Yup , checked it first . It didn t move at all . And I was a bit surprised the movable jaw moved up , because of the way it s built . -- Snag every answer
    Message 1 of 28 , May 2, 2009
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      Richard Sparber wrote:
      > Did you ck the fixed jaw? That was my big surprise.

      Yup , checked it first . It didn't move at all . And I was a bit surprised
      the movable jaw moved up , because of the way it's built .
      --
      Snag
      every answer
      leads to another
      question
    • Terry Coombs
      ... It also told me that there s a bit of wear when the jaws are nearly closed ... since it has more resistance as it approaches fully open . Thanks ! -- Snag
      Message 2 of 28 , May 2, 2009
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        Denis wrote:
        > Snag,
        > There are 3 holes on the back side of the movable jaw. The center one
        > contains a set screw that pushes against a small casting in the jaw
        > that pushes against the casting that the screw goes through. Tighten
        > it until you feel resistance (not too tight). It won't completely
        > remove the slop but it helps to prevent most of it.
        >
        > Denis

        It also told me that there's a bit of wear when the jaws are nearly closed
        ... since it has more resistance as it approaches fully open .
        Thanks !
        --
        Snag
        every answer
        leads to another
        question
      • Steve Albright
        Thanks for all the replies. I decided to put the big $ into a 8 Phase II h/v rotary table with tailstock and dividing plates and went for a 5 Enco vise
        Message 3 of 28 , May 2, 2009
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          Thanks for all the replies. I decided to put the big $ into a 8" Phase II h/v rotary table with tailstock and dividing plates and went for a 5" Enco vise instead of the 6" Kurt. At only $93 and free shipping it was too good of a deal to not try it, since several of you seemed to have a decent experience using one. If it turns out to be inadequate I'm not out a bunch and there will be another sale at Enco. It's nice when you can take an extra 20% off of already sale priced stuff.
          Steve

          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Albright" <salbright@...> wrote:
          >
          > Rick, I have thought about that. However the base of the vise has quite a few large divots out of it from drills and end mills mostly. The jaws are hardened and mount to the vise with socket head cap screws that go through the vise into threads in the jaws. I considered this after your post a while back about soft jaws. In order to make jaws out of aluminum with the threads in the jaw they would need to be thicker than the steel ones and it's already marginal on space. The fixed jaw is is over 3" from the back side to the inside of the jaw which limits me to about 4.5" of useful Y-axis capacity. The Bridgeport vise only opens to 5" which works with the limited travel but limits the size of part. With a face mill or fly cutter I cna still mill a bigger part than my vise will hold. The other thing that's annoying is the amount of jaw lift when tightening. I have to tighten slowly while alternating with tapping the part down if I want it tight against parallels. Thanks for your post.
          > Steve
          >
          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Sparber" <rgsparber@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Steve,
          > >
          > > Have you considered restoring the Bridgeport vise? As long as there
          > > are no cracked castings, it should be possible to make it as good as
          > > new. I "restored" my Enco after I bought it:
          > >
          > > http://rick.sparber.org/Articles/ViseDef/ViDef.htm
          > >
          > > In case you don't know about soft jaws:
          > >
          > > http://rick.sparber.org/Articles/sj/sj6.pdf
          > >
          > > You may find other things of interest at:
          > >
          > > http://rick.sparber.org/ma.htm
          > >
          > > Rick
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com]
          > > On Behalf Of Steve Albright
          > > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 7:05 AM
          > > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [mill_drill] Want opinions on vise choice quick please!
          > >
          > > I've been using a well used Bridgeport 6" on my RF31 because it came
          > > with it for free. It's a bit beat up and due to Enco's 20% off sale
          > > (ends today) on top of vises already being sale priced right now, I'm
          > > thinking of buying either a Kurt D-675 for $327 or maybe the Enco
          > > "Import" SN327-5893 for $127. I know there's no doubt the Kurt would
          > > be a great unit. On the other hand if the import unit works well the
          > > price is hard to beat. Anyone have any experience good or bad with
          > > the Enco import vise? Thanks much for any input that would help me
          > > decide real soon!
          > > Steve
          > >
          >
        • Phil Teague
          ... I had the same problem with my 4 Enco -- I would tighten the middle screw in the moveable jaw till it was tight and yet the jaw would still move up. I
          Message 4 of 28 , May 3, 2009
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            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Coombs" <snagone@...> wrote:
            >
            > Richard Sparber wrote:
            > > Did you ck the fixed jaw? That was my big surprise.
            >
            > Yup , checked it first . It didn't move at all . And I was a bit surprised
            > the movable jaw moved up , because of the way it's built .
            > --

            I had the same problem with my 4" Enco -- I would tighten the middle screw in the moveable jaw till it was tight and yet the jaw would still move up. I took off the moveable jaw and reassembled it. It now seems to tighten down so that the jaw does not move up. It's worth a try.

            Phil T.
          • Terry Coombs
            ... I haven t checked it since tightening that screw , guess I need to . If it still moves , I ll do as you did , disassemble , clean and check . So far the
            Message 5 of 28 , May 3, 2009
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              Phil Teague wrote:
              > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Coombs" <snagone@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Richard Sparber wrote:
              >>> Did you ck the fixed jaw? That was my big surprise.
              >>
              >> Yup , checked it first . It didn't move at all . And I was a bit
              >> surprised the movable jaw moved up , because of the way it's built .
              >> --
              >
              > I had the same problem with my 4" Enco -- I would tighten the
              > middle screw in the moveable jaw till it was tight and yet the jaw
              > would still move up. I took off the moveable jaw and reassembled it.
              > It now seems to tighten down so that the jaw does not move up. It's
              > worth a try.
              >
              > Phil T.

              I haven't checked it since tightening that screw , guess I need to . If it
              still moves , I'll do as you did , disassemble , clean and check . So far
              the accuracy hasn't been an issue , I seldom do anything that requires that
              kind of precision .
              I'm just lazy , that thing is heavy , and it pretty much stays bolted down
              on the right side of the mill table . I should probably take it off
              occasionally just to clean under it ...
              Snag
              every answer
              leads to another
              question
            • Terry Coombs
              ... Well , that was an afternoon ... not sure if it was well spent or not ! I ve had the vise off the mill and apart , lost two of the thrust balls and the
              Message 6 of 28 , May 3, 2009
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                Terry Coombs wrote:
                > Phil Teague wrote:
                >> --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Coombs" <snagone@...>
                >> wrote:
                >>>
                >>> Richard Sparber wrote:
                >>>> Did you ck the fixed jaw? That was my big surprise.
                >>>
                >>> Yup , checked it first . It didn't move at all . And I was a bit
                >>> surprised the movable jaw moved up , because of the way it's built .
                >>> --
                >>
                >> I had the same problem with my 4" Enco -- I would tighten the
                >> middle screw in the moveable jaw till it was tight and yet the jaw
                >> would still move up. I took off the moveable jaw and reassembled it.
                >> It now seems to tighten down so that the jaw does not move up. It's
                >> worth a try.
                >>
                >> Phil T.
                >
                > I haven't checked it since tightening that screw , guess I need to .
                > If it still moves , I'll do as you did , disassemble , clean and
                > check . So far the accuracy hasn't been an issue , I seldom do
                > anything that requires that kind of precision .
                > I'm just lazy , that thing is heavy , and it pretty much stays
                > bolted down on the right side of the mill table . I should probably
                > take it off occasionally just to clean under it ...
                > Snag
                > every answer
                > leads to another
                > question

                Well , that was an afternoon ... not sure if it was well spent or not !
                I've had the vise off the mill and apart , lost two of the thrust balls and
                the pivot pin in my mess of a shed/shop . I call that place The PigPen ...
                Loss of the balls shouldn't be that big of a deal , hopefully - I think
                I'm going to make a better bearing/race set of 4140 that stuf in there is
                soft . The races were both very hammered - I think the ball carrier is
                bound up in the bore , but can't really tell . I chucked the races in my
                lathe and cleaned them up , it feels a lot smoother when tightening now .
                The new pivot pin is made of stainless ...
                I tested the movable jaw lift again after reassembling , and the movement
                varies depending on where in the jaw the piece is clamped . When the work is
                clamped at the bottom , it lifts less than a thou , at the top about a thou
                anna half . I can live with that ... and now I understand why many
                machinists use clamp dogs instead of a vise .
                My next project will be a small screwless vise , got the stock and grabbed
                some plans off the web . Plans are for the fixed jaw and the slideways to be
                one piece , with a bolt-on base to mount it to the table . More fun !
                Snag
                every answer
                leads to another
                question
              • Rick Sparber
                Snag, One really cool thing about soft jaws is that you machine them with a spacer positioned close to what you are going to hold. In this way any tilt in the
                Message 7 of 28 , May 3, 2009
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                  Snag,

                  One really cool thing about soft jaws is that you machine them with a
                  spacer positioned close to what you are going to hold. In this way any
                  tilt in the jaw is canceled.

                  Rick



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of Terry Coombs
                  Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 3:57 PM
                  To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Want opinions on vise choice quick
                  please!

                  Terry Coombs wrote:
                  > Phil Teague wrote:
                  >> --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Coombs" <snagone@...>
                  >> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> Richard Sparber wrote:
                  >>>> Did you ck the fixed jaw? That was my big surprise.
                  >>>
                  >>> Yup , checked it first . It didn't move at all . And I was a bit
                  >>> surprised the movable jaw moved up , because of the way it's built
                  .
                  >>> --
                  >>
                  >> I had the same problem with my 4" Enco -- I would tighten the
                  >> middle screw in the moveable jaw till it was tight and yet the jaw
                  >> would still move up. I took off the moveable jaw and reassembled
                  it.
                  >> It now seems to tighten down so that the jaw does not move up. It's
                  >> worth a try.
                  >>
                  >> Phil T.
                  >
                  > I haven't checked it since tightening that screw , guess I need to
                  .
                  > If it still moves , I'll do as you did , disassemble , clean and
                  > check . So far the accuracy hasn't been an issue , I seldom do
                  > anything that requires that kind of precision .
                  > I'm just lazy , that thing is heavy , and it pretty much stays
                  > bolted down on the right side of the mill table . I should probably
                  > take it off occasionally just to clean under it ...
                  > Snag
                  > every answer
                  > leads to another
                  > question

                  Well , that was an afternoon ... not sure if it was well spent or
                  not !
                  I've had the vise off the mill and apart , lost two of the thrust
                  balls and
                  the pivot pin in my mess of a shed/shop . I call that place The PigPen
                  ...
                  Loss of the balls shouldn't be that big of a deal , hopefully - I
                  think
                  I'm going to make a better bearing/race set of 4140 that stuf in there
                  is
                  soft . The races were both very hammered - I think the ball carrier
                  is
                  bound up in the bore , but can't really tell . I chucked the races in
                  my
                  lathe and cleaned them up , it feels a lot smoother when tightening
                  now .
                  The new pivot pin is made of stainless ...
                  I tested the movable jaw lift again after reassembling , and the
                  movement
                  varies depending on where in the jaw the piece is clamped . When the
                  work is
                  clamped at the bottom , it lifts less than a thou , at the top about a
                  thou
                  anna half . I can live with that ... and now I understand why many
                  machinists use clamp dogs instead of a vise .
                  My next project will be a small screwless vise , got the stock and
                  grabbed
                  some plans off the web . Plans are for the fixed jaw and the slideways
                  to be
                  one piece , with a bolt-on base to mount it to the table . More fun !
                  Snag
                  every answer
                  leads to another
                  question



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Terry Coombs
                  ... And when the weather here clears and I can fire up the foundry , I ll be casting a set of blanks (I hate waste ... casting minimizes it) . Another cool
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 3, 2009
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                    Rick Sparber wrote:
                    > Snag,
                    >
                    > One really cool thing about soft jaws is that you machine them with a
                    > spacer positioned close to what you are going to hold. In this way any
                    > tilt in the jaw is canceled.
                    >
                    > Rick
                    And when the weather here clears and I can fire up the foundry , I'll be
                    casting a set of blanks (I hate waste ... casting minimizes it) . Another
                    cool thing about soft jaws is that you can make them so you can hold larger
                    pieces than the nominal size of the vise . I think I saw that on the website
                    of someone from this group - might have been yours , you got some really
                    neat stuff there .
                    --
                    Snag
                    every answer
                    leads to another
                    question
                  • Rick Sparber
                    Snag, There is an article on soft jaws on my web site but I was more of an editor that the author. Got a lot of help from others on this one. I cut mine from
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 3, 2009
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                      Snag,

                      There is an article on soft jaws on my web site but I was more of an
                      editor that the author. Got a lot of help from others on this one.

                      I cut mine from rectangular stock - no waste.

                      Rick

                      --------------------------------------------------

                      And when the weather here clears and I can fire up the foundry , I'll
                      be
                      casting a set of blanks (I hate waste ... casting minimizes it) .
                      Another
                      cool thing about soft jaws is that you can make them so you can hold
                      larger
                      pieces than the nominal size of the vise . I think I saw that on the
                      website
                      of someone from this group - might have been yours , you got some
                      really
                      neat stuff there .
                      --
                      Snag
                      every answer
                      leads to another
                      question
                    • Terry Coombs
                      ... And since my stock is all in ingots that are 1.5 X 1.5 X 10 , I ll be casting some pieces that are around 2 x 5 x .75 , which will be basically the same
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 3, 2009
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                        Rick Sparber wrote:
                        > Snag,
                        >
                        > There is an article on soft jaws on my web site but I was more of an
                        > editor that the author. Got a lot of help from others on this one.
                        >
                        > I cut mine from rectangular stock - no waste.
                        >
                        > Rick
                        >

                        And since my stock is all in ingots that are 1.5" X 1.5" X 10" , I'll be
                        casting some pieces that are around 2 x 5 x .75 , which will be basically
                        the same as the stock you used . This material is all salvage , from cracked
                        wheels , cylinder heads , and scrap extrusions . Six bucks worth of propane
                        will salvage a lot more than a pound of aluminum ... I've used about a tank
                        and a half , got close to a hundred pounds of ingot ready for projects .
                        --
                        Snag

                        > --------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > And when the weather here clears and I can fire up the foundry , I'll
                        > be
                        > casting a set of blanks (I hate waste ... casting minimizes it) .
                        > Another
                        > cool thing about soft jaws is that you can make them so you can hold
                        > larger
                        > pieces than the nominal size of the vise . I think I saw that on the
                        > website
                        > of someone from this group - might have been yours , you got some
                        > really
                        > neat stuff there .
                        > --
                        > Snag
                        > every answer
                        > leads to another
                        > question
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