Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Spin Indexers vs Rotary Tables

Expand Messages
  • Leschwartz
    I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4 H/V rotary table
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the
      slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4"
      H/V rotary table with a tailstock and chuck. Unfortunately, these seem
      to be out of stock every place I check. Then I thought the 8" set from
      Enco -- but I get sticker shock (even with the 20% off coupon).

      Next I notice "spin indexers" on the Enco site (#235-6011). The price
      is certainly attractive, and I realize that I would still need a
      tailstock and collets. But I think this this setup could do the job I
      need to do.

      Can anyone explain the pluses and minuses of each approach?

      thanks in advance,

      Larry
    • Mike Klotz
      have you checked with these guys? http://www.lathemaster.com/RotaryTables.htm ... From: Leschwartz To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        have you checked with these guys?
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 1:32 PM
        Subject: [mill_drill] Spin Indexers vs Rotary Tables

        I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the
        slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4"
        H/V rotary table with a tailstock and chuck. Unfortunately, these seem
        to be out of stock every place I check. Then I thought the 8" set from
        Enco -- but I get sticker shock (even with the 20% off coupon).

        Next I notice "spin indexers" on the Enco site (#235-6011). The price
        is certainly attractive, and I realize that I would still need a
        tailstock and collets. But I think this this setup could do the job I
        need to do.

        Can anyone explain the pluses and minuses of each approach?

        thanks in advance,

        Larry

      • Stan Stocker
        Hi Larry, Rotary tables can: 1) Be used with dividing plates to generate just about any typical divisions (I know, prime numbers require the prime number in
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Larry,

          Rotary tables can:

          1) Be used with dividing plates to generate just about any typical
          divisions (I know, prime numbers require the prime number in the plate...)

          2) Usually can be used vertically or horizontally

          3) Can divide to any number - to the extent that you don't lose track
          and can read the dials/verniers

          4) Hold just about any work you could mount on a faceplate, including
          lathe chucks (usually with an adapter)

          5) Can't take collets without a collet adapter, such as one of the
          little 5C H/V adapt

          6) Usually have no indexing capability - your accuracy is only as good
          as your table graduations and your ability to read them without error
          (parallax, forgot to carry the extra 3 minutes correctly to add a
          degree, got tired, etc.)

          7) Sorting out the centerline of the table / work / mill requires care.

          8) Can do arcs, off center work, asymmetrical setups, lots of neat things.

          9) Can do number 8 above by accident pretty easily :-)

          10) Can cause you to goof by not crossing over the backlash - worm
          wheels have it just like leadscrews.

          Spin Indexers / Spindexes can

          1) Divide only in whole degrees

          2) Do number one easily, repeatably, and with NO backlash

          3) Hold work only in 5C collets, unless you have 5C mount lathe chucks
          or mount a small lathe chuck on a length of shaft that is small enough
          for 5C to swallow.

          4) Take up less room, be left mounted near your mill vise in many cases,
          and make quick accurate work of whole degree dividing on shafting up to
          1 inch or so.

          5) - Biggest downfall - 5C collets. To use 5C collets correctly, so
          they hold well and don't get damages, you can only compress them a few
          thou. 5C collets are available in metric, imperial, hex, and square.
          To handle most everything, you need quite a few collets unless you
          manage your work flow to always have a standard size at at least one end
          to grip.

          which is also

          6) Biggest upside - 5C collets. You can remove and replace work without
          introducing significant error, unlike in most lathe chucks. At a
          minimum, once you pull off work, you save the time dialing your setup
          back into position when you use collets.

          I have both, use both. For the vast majority of my needs, the spindexer
          is quicker and easier to use.

          Happy shopping!
          Stan

          Leschwartz wrote:
          > I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the
          > slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4"
          > H/V rotary table with a tailstock and chuck. Unfortunately, these seem
          > to be out of stock every place I check. Then I thought the 8" set from
          > Enco -- but I get sticker shock (even with the 20% off coupon).
          >
          > Next I notice "spin indexers" on the Enco site (#235-6011). The price
          > is certainly attractive, and I realize that I would still need a
          > tailstock and collets. But I think this this setup could do the job I
          > need to do.
          >
          > Can anyone explain the pluses and minuses of each approach?
          >
          > thanks in advance,
          >
          > Larry
          >
          >
        • Gene Furr
          Give http://www.littlemachineshop.com a try. I just ordered a H/V 6 inch Phase II from them with very good service. Shipped out the same day I called. Very
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Give http://www.littlemachineshop.com  a try.
            I just ordered a H/V 6 inch Phase II from them with very good service.
            Shipped out the same day I called. Very good service with follow up.

            I tried three or four times to talk to some one from lathemasters with no luck so gave up on them.
            ....... Gene






            At 03:32 PM 6/2/2008, you wrote:

            I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the
            slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4"
            H/V rotary table with a tailstock and chuck. Unfortunately, these seem
            to be out of stock every place I check. Then I thought the 8" set from
            Enco -- but I get sticker shock (even with the 20% off coupon).

            Next I notice "spin indexers" on the Enco site (#235-6011). The price
            is certainly attractive, and I realize that I would still need a
            tailstock and collets. But I think this this setup could do the job I
            need to do.

            Can anyone explain the pluses and minuses of each approach?

            thanks in advance,

            Larry

          • corey renner
            I m sure that others will do a good job of explaining about the rotary table and spin index, so I m going to talk about something else that I ve found to be
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm sure that others will do a good job of explaining about the rotary
              table and spin index, so I'm going to talk about something else that
              I've found to be much faster for the majority of simple indexing jobs
              that I do.

              5C collet blocks.

              They are precision ground blocks that accept a 5C collet and allow you
              to index in increments of: 2, 3, 4 or 6

              Most of the indexing that I do is in one of those increments and setup
              is far faster than using the rotary table or spin-index (I have those
              also). Just another option in-case you didn't know about them. Here
              is a link so that you can see what they look like.

              http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-7050&PMPXNO=950317&PARTPG=INLMK3

              The only downside is that you need to buy the collets, as you would
              with the spin index. The good news is that collets have become very
              inexpensive.

              cheers,
              c

              On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Leschwartz <LESchwartz@...> wrote:
              > I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the
              > slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4"
              > H/V rotary table with a tailstock and chuck. Unfortunately, these seem
              > to be out of stock every place I check. Then I thought the 8" set from
              > Enco -- but I get sticker shock (even with the 20% off coupon).
            • Rick Kruger
              Good idea, Corey. And what is cool about it besides its simplicity, is that you can use parallels between the collet block and the mill table and clamp the
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Good idea, Corey. And what is cool about it besides its simplicity,
                is that you can use parallels between the collet block and the mill
                table and clamp the part of the part you will be milling on directly
                in your mill vise, so no need for a tailstock/center etc.

                Rick

                At 06:01 PM 6/2/2008, you wrote:
                >I'm sure that others will do a good job of explaining about the rotary
                >table and spin index, so I'm going to talk about something else that
                >I've found to be much faster for the majority of simple indexing jobs
                >that I do.
                >
                >5C collet blocks.
                >
                >They are precision ground blocks that accept a 5C collet and allow you
                >to index in increments of: 2, 3, 4 or 6
                >
                >Most of the indexing that I do is in one of those increments and setup
                >is far faster than using the rotary table or spin-index (I have those
                >also). Just another option in-case you didn't know about them. Here
                >is a link so that you can see what they look like.
                >
                >http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-7050&PMPXNO=950317&PARTPG=INLMK3
                >
                >The only downside is that you need to buy the collets, as you would
                >with the spin index. The good news is that collets have become very
                >inexpensive.
                >
                >cheers,
                >c
                >
                >On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Leschwartz <LESchwartz@...> wrote:
                > > I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the
                > > slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4"
                > > H/V rotary table with a tailstock and chuck. Unfortunately, these seem
                > > to be out of stock every place I check. Then I thought the 8" set from
                > > Enco -- but I get sticker shock (even with the 20% off coupon).
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Rexarino
                One quick addition to the use of the 6 sided fixture, If the workpiece can be held close to the collet, i.e., unsupported on the other end, you can get 12
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  One quick addition to the use of the 6 sided fixture,  If the workpiece can be held close to the collet, i.e., unsupported on the other end, you can get 12 sides.  Clamp the fixture to the table on each of it's 6 sides, then clamp it in the vise in 6 rotations.  Clamping in the vise effectively holds the fixture "on edge" halfway between each side you clamped flat on the table,

                  rexarino

                  On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:01 PM, corey renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
                  I'm sure that others will do a good job of explaining about the rotary
                  table and spin index, so I'm going to talk about something else that
                  I've found to be much faster for the majority of simple indexing jobs
                  that I do.

                  5C collet blocks.

                  They are precision ground blocks that accept a 5C collet and allow you
                  to index in increments of: 2, 3, 4 or 6

                  Most of the indexing that I do is in one of those increments and setup
                  is far faster than using the rotary table or spin-index (I have those
                  also).  Just another option in-case you didn't know about them.  Here
                  is a link so that you can see what they look like.

                  http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=235-7050&PMPXNO=950317&PARTPG=INLMK3

                  The only downside is that you need to buy the collets, as you would
                  with the spin index.  The good news is that collets have become very
                  inexpensive.

                  cheers,
                  c

                  On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Leschwartz <LESchwartz@...> wrote:
                  > I have a fairly simple job: To mill 3 slots onto a shaft, where the
                  > slots are 120 degrees apart. At first, I thought I would just get a 4"
                  > H/V rotary table with a tailstock and chuck. Unfortunately, these seem
                  > to be out of stock every place I check. Then I thought the 8" set from
                  > Enco -- but I get sticker shock (even with the 20% off coupon).

                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/

                  <*> Your email settings:
                     Individual Email | Traditional

                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/join
                     (Yahoo! ID required)

                  <*> To change settings via email:
                     mailto:mill_drill-digest@yahoogroups.com
                     mailto:mill_drill-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                     mill_drill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                • Leschwartz
                  Thanks to everyone for their replies! Based on Stan s reply, I think the spin indexer is the way for me to go. However, I don t see where either Enco or LMS
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks to everyone for their replies!

                    Based on Stan's reply, I think the spin indexer is the way for me to
                    go. However, I don't see where either Enco or LMS sells the tailstock
                    for it. Lathemaster does sell the tailstock, but is out of both the
                    indexer and tailstock. * sigh *

                    Larry

                    PS: Enco doesn't seem to sell 4" rotary tables, LMS is out of
                    tailstocks, Lathemaster seems to be out of both.
                  • John Hansford
                    Did you check Grizzly? I m pretty surprised at the amount of stuff they have....and good prices too! ... John
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 2, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Did you check Grizzly? I'm pretty surprised at the
                      amount of stuff they have....and good prices too!

                      :)
                      John



                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Leschwartz" <LESchwartz@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks to everyone for their replies!
                      >
                      > Based on Stan's reply, I think the spin indexer is the way for me to
                      > go. However, I don't see where either Enco or LMS sells the tailstock
                      > for it. Lathemaster does sell the tailstock, but is out of both the
                      > indexer and tailstock. * sigh *
                      >
                      > Larry
                      >
                      > PS: Enco doesn't seem to sell 4" rotary tables, LMS is out of
                      > tailstocks, Lathemaster seems to be out of both.
                      >
                    • Leschwartz
                      My workpiece is long enough that I m pretty sure I will need both ends. However, the usual sources are either out of stock on (or do not list) the tailstock.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        My workpiece is long enough that I'm pretty sure I will need both
                        ends. However, the usual sources are either out of stock on (or do not
                        list) the tailstock. So I'm thinking of holding the work between
                        either two spin indexers or two collet blocks.

                        Questions: What do I do if the height of the two indexers is slightly
                        different? Is this a problem if I were to use two collet blocks
                        instead?

                        thank,

                        Larry
                      • davidshobby
                        Larry I was at Grizzly in Muncy , Pa today and saw that they had a tailstock that was height adjustable for various applications on a illing table. You
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Larry

                          I was at Grizzly in Muncy , Pa today and saw that they had a
                          tailstock that was height adjustable for various applications on a
                          illing table. You might look at that.

                          Dave
                        • ron Pat
                          LMS has 4 4 inch rotary table in stock right now with all the tail stocks and plates to go with them. In MHO your going to be a whole lot better with a table.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            LMS has 4 4 inch rotary table in stock right now with
                            all the tail stocks and plates to go with them. In MHO
                            your going to be a whole lot better with a table.





                            --- Leschwartz <LESchwartz@...> wrote:

                            > My workpiece is long enough that I'm pretty sure I
                            > will need both
                            > ends. However, the usual sources are either out of
                            > stock on (or do not
                            > list) the tailstock. So I'm thinking of holding the
                            > work between
                            > either two spin indexers or two collet blocks.
                            >
                            > Questions: What do I do if the height of the two
                            > indexers is slightly
                            > different? Is this a problem if I were to use two
                            > collet blocks
                            > instead?
                            >
                            > thank,
                            >
                            > Larry
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Richard Kruger
                            How long are the cuts you have to make? Can you not do this with a single collet block by shimming the CB to the appropriate height and holding your workpiece
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              How long are the cuts you have to make?  Can you not do this with a single collet block by shimming the CB to the appropriate height and holding your workpiece in your mill vise?  All the collet block does is rotational positioning.  You could even reposition the workpiece in the mill vise if you cut needed to be longer than you can make at one time. 
                               
                              Rick

                               
                              On 6/3/08, Leschwartz <LESchwartz@...> wrote:
                              My workpiece is long enough that I'm pretty sure I will need both
                              ends.  However, the usual sources are either out of stock on (or do not
                              list) the tailstock.  So I'm thinking of holding the work between
                              either two spin indexers or two collet blocks.

                              Questions:  What do I do if the height of the two indexers is slightly
                              different?  Is this a problem if I were to use two collet blocks
                              instead?

                              thank,

                              Larry




                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/

                              <*> Your email settings:
                                 Individual Email | Traditional

                              <*> To change settings online go to:
                                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/join
                                 (Yahoo! ID required)

                              <*> To change settings via email:
                                 mailto:mill_drill-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                 mailto:mill_drill-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                              <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                 mill_drill-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                              <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                            • Leschwartz
                              ... The cuts are short (about 1/4 inch). I had considered using a single collet holder and clamping the free end in my vise, but I was worried that the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > How long are the cuts you have to make? Can you not do this with
                                > a single collet block by shimming the CB to the appropriate height
                                > and holding your workpiece in your mill vise? All the collet block
                                > does is rotational positioning. You could even reposition the
                                > workpiece in the mill vise if you cut needed to be longer than
                                > you can make at one time.

                                The cuts are short (about 1/4 inch). I had considered using a single
                                collet holder and clamping the free end in my vise, but I was worried
                                that the "clamping action" of the vise would force the collect holder
                                out alignment.

                                Larry
                              • Rick Kruger
                                That really would not concern me. Just how precise does your angular alignment have to be? You could clamp the collet block down to ensure it doesn t rotate
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 3, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  That really would not concern me. Just how precise does your angular
                                  alignment have to be? You could clamp the collet block down to
                                  ensure it doesn't rotate or move during the clamping action of the
                                  mill vise to alleviate that concern. I think even hand force could
                                  alleviate it also. There isn't much that any of us do that requires more.

                                  Well, let me restate that. Crappy mill vises that lift workpieces
                                  could alter your angular alignment. I'm speaking from a reference
                                  point of using a screwless toolmaker's vise that does not lift at
                                  all. Still, I think you could overcome the lifting if using a
                                  "crappy" vise by use of a deadblow hammer to tap the part down, all
                                  the while clamping the collet block down. Again, the question comes
                                  to mind, just how accurate does your angular alignment really have to
                                  be? What is the application and what does it mate/interface
                                  with? What are the tolerances in those interfaces?

                                  Rick


                                  At 08:47 PM 6/3/2008, you wrote:

                                  > > How long are the cuts you have to make? Can you not do this with
                                  > > a single collet block by shimming the CB to the appropriate height
                                  > > and holding your workpiece in your mill vise? All the collet block
                                  > > does is rotational positioning. You could even reposition the
                                  > > workpiece in the mill vise if you cut needed to be longer than
                                  > > you can make at one time.
                                  >
                                  >The cuts are short (about 1/4 inch). I had considered using a single
                                  >collet holder and clamping the free end in my vise, but I was worried
                                  >that the "clamping action" of the vise would force the collect holder
                                  >out alignment.
                                  >
                                  >Larry
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Leschwartz
                                  ... Thanks to the help. Larry
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 4, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > That really would not concern me. Just how precise does your
                                    > angular alignment have to be? You could clamp the collet block
                                    > down to ensure it doesn't rotate or move during the clamping action
                                    > of the mill vise to alleviate that concern. I think even hand
                                    > force could alleviate it also. There isn't much that any of us do
                                    > that requires more.

                                    Thanks to the help.

                                    Larry
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.