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Re: [mill_drill] Re: Most bang for the buck?

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  • Druid Noibn
    Hi George, Like you I plan on buying the square column unit, however, WT is not favored as trying to get a shipping price from them was.... a problem. I still
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 6, 2007
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      Hi George,
       
      Like you I plan on buying the square column unit, however, WT is not favored as trying to get a shipping price from them was.... a problem.  I still don't know the costs.
       
      That said - let us know your views on the machine when you get it.
       
      Take care,
      DBN

      George Vigneron <gvig01@...> wrote:
      My thanks to all who have responded to my questions.

      I have looked at Harbor Freight, and I admit to buying from HF at
      times, but their machinery has always had such a "shop worn" and
      "cheap" look that I am a bit shy of making a purchase of this
      magnitude there. The Wholesale Tools machines look better to me, but
      probably because I already am a WT customer and know their quality of
      service which is in addition to the quality of their product.

      Lathemaster looks very, very good to me, but price is of much
      consideration, as is the ease of driving easily to the store (Tulsa)
      and saving freight. Of course that means paying state sales tax...
      sigh... can't avoid all of lifes potholes.

      Homier and the others, when including the freight come almost up to
      the same machine costs as in Tulsa, so no deal there, why spend the
      same money there when I cannot put my hands on the machine first and
      have not formed the trust that I have with WT? Am I nuts here?? (not
      trying to start a new thread, just a rhetorical question)

      I have finally decided that I will shell out the extra loot and go
      with a square column/gear drive unit. A square column/belt drive would
      be nice (potentially smoother operation, no gear noise) but that
      combination does not exist.

      So... unless a good deal hits me in the head in the very, very near
      future, I will be heading up to Tulsa and WT.

      As was noted, I do live in an area where there is a dearth of
      machinery, ever since the oil patch dried up and many machine shops
      moved away from central Oklahoma.

      Again, many thanks for the time and thoughts. You guys are much
      appreciated. Thanks for letting me into your days for just a minute or so.

      George Vigneron



      Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

    • Kenneth A. Emmert
      Understood! Also look up the feedback on the machines - ... I picked up a RF31 from HF about 6 weeks ago for $750 when they had those 15% off any one item
      Message 2 of 30 , Aug 6, 2007
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        Understood! Also look up the feedback on the machines -
        > interesting items.
        > For most applications they are just fine and I am still wondering
        > why I just don't buy one. I am troubled by several comments
        > however: 1) severe noise and vibration at high speed and 2)
        > recommentdations to fill the column with sand or concrete that
        > expands a little.

        I picked up a RF31 from HF about 6 weeks ago for $750 when they had
        those 15% off any one item coupons out.

        M/D RF31 was a much better model than the floor version with scraped
        ways. Machine is happy except I need to do some adjustment on fine
        feed movement not as smooth as I would like. Also a change out to 220
        volt from 110 version delivered. Its a dual voltage motor and a minor
        project.

        Vibration and Mill/Drills go together when your cut exceeds the mills
        rigidity. Think of it kind of like an alarm bell! Filling the column
        can help also a good heavy stand. Not the sheetmetal junk they sell
        as a stand.


        Ken
      • Druid Noibn
        Hi Ken, Reading a few posts on the topic, it seems there is an issue with the HF/Grizzly...et al., machines reagrding the vibration at high speeds. It appears
        Message 3 of 30 , Aug 6, 2007
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          Hi Ken,
           
          Reading a few posts on the topic, it seems there is an issue with the HF/Grizzly...et al., machines reagrding the vibration at high speeds.  It appears that a tech at Grizzly suggests that it is endemic, due to the play between the spline drive shaft and the spindle/quill.  The suggestion is/was to use heavy grease here. 
           
          Inferring from your note - we need to recognize the limitations of the machines and while pushing them a bit is a lot of fun, the bench-top unit is not a Bridgeport knee machine <SMILE>.
           
          Let us know how your work progresses - appreciate the info!
           
          Take care,
          DBN  

          "Kenneth A. Emmert" <mds1878@...> wrote:
          Understood! Also look up the feedback on the machines -
          > interesting items.
          > For most applications they are just fine and I am still wondering
          > why I just don't buy one. I am troubled by several comments
          > however: 1) severe noise and vibration at high speed and 2)
          > recommentdations to fill the column with sand or concrete that
          > expands a little.

          I picked up a RF31 from HF about 6 weeks ago for $750 when they had
          those 15% off any one item coupons out.

          M/D RF31 was a much better model than the floor version with scraped
          ways. Machine is happy except I need to do some adjustment on fine
          feed movement not as smooth as I would like. Also a change out to 220
          volt from 110 version delivered. Its a dual voltage motor and a minor
          project.

          Vibration and Mill/Drills go together when your cut exceeds the mills
          rigidity. Think of it kind of like an alarm bell! Filling the column
          can help also a good heavy stand. Not the sheetmetal junk they sell
          as a stand.

          Ken



          Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
          Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

        • Paul Williamson
          Try the Feener Power twist belts. It might surprise you. ... From: Druid Noibn To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:02 PM Subject:
          Message 4 of 30 , Aug 6, 2007
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            Try the Feener Power twist belts.
            It might surprise you.
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:02 PM
            Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Most bang for the buck?

            Hi Ken,
             
            Reading a few posts on the topic, it seems there is an issue with the HF/Grizzly.. .et al., machines reagrding the vibration at high speeds.  It appears that a tech at Grizzly suggests that it is endemic, due to the play between the spline drive shaft and the spindle/quill.  The suggestion is/was to use heavy grease here. 
             
            Inferring from your note - we need to recognize the limitations of the machines and while pushing them a bit is a lot of fun, the bench-top unit is not a Bridgeport knee machine <SMILE>.
             
            Let us know how your work progresses - appreciate the info!
             
            Take care,
            DBN  

            "Kenneth A. Emmert" <mds1878@comcast. net> wrote:
            Understood! Also look up the feedback on the machines -
            > interesting items.
            > For most applications they are just fine and I am still wondering
            > why I just don't buy one. I am troubled by several comments
            > however: 1) severe noise and vibration at high speed and 2)
            > recommentdations to fill the column with sand or concrete that
            > expands a little.

            I picked up a RF31 from HF about 6 weeks ago for $750 when they had
            those 15% off any one item coupons out.

            M/D RF31 was a much better model than the floor version with scraped
            ways. Machine is happy except I need to do some adjustment on fine
            feed movement not as smooth as I would like. Also a change out to 220
            volt from 110 version delivered. Its a dual voltage motor and a minor
            project.

            Vibration and Mill/Drills go together when your cut exceeds the mills
            rigidity. Think of it kind of like an alarm bell! Filling the column
            can help also a good heavy stand. Not the sheetmetal junk they sell
            as a stand.

            Ken



            Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
            Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

          • Druid Noibn
            Hi Paul, I gather the belts address the issue? Is the elasticity different? just curious as I do not own the machine. Take care, DBN Paul Williamson
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 6, 2007
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              Hi Paul,
               
              I gather the belts address the issue?  Is the elasticity different?  just curious as I do not own the machine.
               
              Take care,
              DBN

              Paul Williamson <chue2k@...> wrote:
              Try the Feener Power twist belts.
              It might surprise you.
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:02 PM
              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Most bang for the buck?

              Hi Ken,
               
              Reading a few posts on the topic, it seems there is an issue with the HF/Grizzly.. .et al., machines reagrding the vibration at high speeds.  It appears that a tech at Grizzly suggests that it is endemic, due to the play between the spline drive shaft and the spindle/quill.  The suggestion is/was to use heavy grease here. 
               
              Inferring from your note - we need to recognize the limitations of the machines and while pushing them a bit is a lot of fun, the bench-top unit is not a Bridgeport knee machine <SMILE>.
               
              Let us know how your work progresses - appreciate the info!
               
              Take care,
              DBN  

              "Kenneth A. Emmert" <mds1878@comcast. net> wrote:
              Understood! Also look up the feedback on the machines -
              > interesting items.
              > For most applications they are just fine and I am still wondering
              > why I just don't buy one. I am troubled by several comments
              > however: 1) severe noise and vibration at high speed and 2)
              > recommentdations to fill the column with sand or concrete that
              > expands a little.

              I picked up a RF31 from HF about 6 weeks ago for $750 when they had
              those 15% off any one item coupons out.

              M/D RF31 was a much better model than the floor version with scraped
              ways. Machine is happy except I need to do some adjustment on fine
              feed movement not as smooth as I would like. Also a change out to 220
              volt from 110 version delivered. Its a dual voltage motor and a minor
              project.

              Vibration and Mill/Drills go together when your cut exceeds the mills
              rigidity. Think of it kind of like an alarm bell! Filling the column
              can help also a good heavy stand. Not the sheetmetal junk they sell
              as a stand.

              Ken



              Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
              Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.


              Got a little couch potato?
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            • rgsparber@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/6/2007 9:28:00 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, druid_noibn@yahoo.com writes: Try the Feener Power twist belts. It might surprise you. I
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 6, 2007
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                In a message dated 8/6/2007 9:28:00 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
                druid_noibn@... writes:

                Try the Feener Power twist belts.
                It might surprise you.

                I put these belts on my RF30 and noticed some difference but it was not
                dramatic.

                If you do decide to go with these belts, be sure to buy enough of it. I
                bought about 8" more than I figured I needed and ended up using all of it. I also
                recommend you check on eBay for the best price.

                One nice thing about these belts is they are clean. My old belts were very
                dirty and changing them left my hands covered with black gunge. The mill does
                run quieter but the finish is about the same.

                Rick Sparber
                rgsparber@...
                web site: http://rick.sparber.org




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              • Bill P
                Rick.. a couple of questions, please. I have both an HF 33686 and a Big Red HF42976.... I ve never been able to establish which of the RF these machines
                Message 7 of 30 , Aug 6, 2007
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                  Rick.. a couple of questions, please.
                  I have both an HF 33686 and a Big Red HF42976....
                  I've never been able to establish which of the "RF"
                  these machines actually are equivalent to, which size
                  belts they use and how long for each.
                  Is your RF30 the same or equivalent ( +- } as either of mine?
                  Thx... Bill 40th and Tbird



                  rgsparber@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Try the Feener Power twist belts.
                  > It might surprise you.
                  >
                  > I put these belts on my RF30 and noticed some difference but it was not
                  > dramatic.
                  >
                  > If you do decide to go with these belts, be sure to buy enough of it. I
                  > bought about 8" more than I figured I needed and ended up using all of
                  > it. I also
                  > recommend you check on eBay for the best price.
                  >
                  > One nice thing about these belts is they are clean. My old belts were
                  > very
                  > dirty and changing them left my hands covered with black gunge. The
                  > mill does
                  > run quieter but the finish is about the same.
                  >
                  > Rick Sparber
                  > rgsparber@... <mailto:rgsparber%40AOL.com>
                  > web site: http://rick.sparber.org <http://rick.sparber.org>
                  >
                • Andre' Blanchard
                  ... of ... would ... or so. ... I have been researching square column bench mills to do a CNC conversion on for a while now and from what I have seen the best
                  Message 8 of 30 , Aug 7, 2007
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                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "George Vigneron" <gvig01@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > My thanks to all who have responded to my questions.
                    >
                    > I have looked at Harbor Freight, and I admit to buying from HF at
                    > times, but their machinery has always had such a "shop worn" and
                    > "cheap" look that I am a bit shy of making a purchase of this
                    > magnitude there. The Wholesale Tools machines look better to me, but
                    > probably because I already am a WT customer and know their quality
                    of
                    > service which is in addition to the quality of their product.
                    >
                    > Lathemaster looks very, very good to me, but price is of much
                    > consideration, as is the ease of driving easily to the store (Tulsa)
                    > and saving freight. Of course that means paying state sales tax...
                    > sigh... can't avoid all of lifes potholes.
                    >
                    > Homier and the others, when including the freight come almost up to
                    > the same machine costs as in Tulsa, so no deal there, why spend the
                    > same money there when I cannot put my hands on the machine first and
                    > have not formed the trust that I have with WT? Am I nuts here?? (not
                    > trying to start a new thread, just a rhetorical question)
                    >
                    > I have finally decided that I will shell out the extra loot and go
                    > with a square column/gear drive unit. A square column/belt drive
                    would
                    > be nice (potentially smoother operation, no gear noise) but that
                    > combination does not exist.
                    >
                    > So... unless a good deal hits me in the head in the very, very near
                    > future, I will be heading up to Tulsa and WT.
                    >
                    > As was noted, I do live in an area where there is a dearth of
                    > machinery, ever since the oil patch dried up and many machine shops
                    > moved away from central Oklahoma.
                    >
                    > Again, many thanks for the time and thoughts. You guys are much
                    > appreciated. Thanks for letting me into your days for just a minute
                    or so.
                    >
                    > George Vigneron
                    >


                    I have been researching square column bench mills to do a CNC
                    conversion on for a while now and from what I have seen the best bang
                    for the buck is looking like the one from Industrial Hobbies.
                    http://www.industrialhobbies.com/Products/square_column_mill_2.htm

                    It just looks like they have got more of the details right for a solid
                    ready to use mill.
                    ______________
                    Andre' B.
                  • Druid Noibn
                    Hi Andre’, Yes that is one nice machine and Industrial Hobbies seems to take great pride in their offerings. For some members here, the pricing is just out
                    Message 9 of 30 , Aug 7, 2007
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                      Hi Andre’,
                       
                      Yes that is one nice machine and Industrial Hobbies seems to take great pride in their offerings.  For some members here, the pricing is just out of reach.  No doubt the quality is there but the money may not be.
                       
                      Thanks for the reminder.
                       
                      Take care,
                      DBN


                      Andre' Blanchard <andre_54005@...> wrote:
                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogro ups.com, "George Vigneron" <gvig01@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > My thanks to all who have responded to my questions.
                      >
                      > I have looked at Harbor Freight, and I admit to buying from HF at
                      > times, but their machinery has always had such a "shop worn" and
                      > "cheap" look that I am a bit shy of making a purchase of this
                      > magnitude there. The Wholesale Tools machines look better to me, but
                      > probably because I already am a WT customer and know their quality
                      of
                      > service which is in addition to the quality of their product.
                      >
                      > Lathemaster looks very, very good to me, but price is of much
                      > consideration, as is the ease of driving easily to the store (Tulsa)
                      > and saving freight. Of course that means paying state sales tax...
                      > sigh... can't avoid all of lifes potholes.
                      >
                      > Homier and the others, when including the freight come almost up to
                      > the same machine costs as in Tulsa, so no deal there, why spend the
                      > same money there when I cannot put my hands on the machine first and
                      > have not formed the trust that I have with WT? Am I nuts here?? (not
                      > trying to start a new thread, just a rhetorical question)
                      >
                      > I have finally decided that I will shell out the extra loot and go
                      > with a square column/gear drive unit. A square column/belt drive
                      would
                      > be nice (potentially smoother operation, no gear noise) but that
                      > combination does not exist.
                      >
                      > So... unless a good deal hits me in the head in the very, very near
                      > future, I will be heading up to Tulsa and WT.
                      >
                      > As was noted, I do live in an area where there is a dearth of
                      > machinery, ever since the oil patch dried up and many machine shops
                      > moved away from central Oklahoma.
                      >
                      > Again, many thanks for the time and thoughts. You guys are much
                      > appreciated. Thanks for letting me into your days for just a minute
                      or so.
                      >
                      > George Vigneron
                      >

                      I have been researching square column bench mills to do a CNC
                      conversion on for a while now and from what I have seen the best bang
                      for the buck is looking like the one from Industrial Hobbies.
                      http://www.industri alhobbies. com/Products/ square_column_ mill_2.htm

                      It just looks like they have got more of the details right for a solid
                      ready to use mill.
                      ____________ __
                      Andre' B.



                      Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                      Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

                    • j eric townsend
                      Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but is anyone on this list in/near Pittsburgh, PA? If so, where do you go for metal stock? I ve been on the phone all
                      Message 10 of 30 , Aug 9, 2007
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                        Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but is anyone on this list in/near Pittsburgh, PA? If so, where do you go for metal stock?

                        I've been on the phone all morning trying to find someone to sell me a small piece of 1/4" plate and 20' or so of tube steel. I can't believe that a town so attached to the steel industry doesn't have a single place that can sell small amounts of steel to a one-man shop.

                        --
                        jet / KG6ZVQ
                        http://www.flatline.net
                        pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8
                      • mark
                        Lately I ve been buying small pieces from the scrap guy that buys aluminum cans. There is such a market for scrap that they started buying brass and just about
                        Message 11 of 30 , Aug 9, 2007
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                          Lately I've been buying small pieces from the scrap guy that buys
                          aluminum cans. There is such a market for scrap that they started
                          buying brass and just about everything else, including steel. I've
                          been buying small pieces of steel, including flat, bar and tubing.

                          They have all the shops sending small quantities to them as scrap and
                          they buy it. I pay a lot less than new market price and it's all
                          good, new stuff, just what I'm looking for.

                          I was able to make contact with one supplier for the special new
                          stuff I need by going to a local welding shop and getting the name of
                          some of there suppliers. I found it helped when I showed up at their
                          place and said that such and such said I should talk to them. I think
                          being there in person and explaining what you are doing helps. They
                          have scrap pieces that they will sell, but most of them won't waist
                          their time on the phone. Good Luck.

                          Mark

                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, j eric townsend <jet@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but is anyone on this list
                          in/near Pittsburgh, PA? If so, where do you go for metal stock?
                          >
                          > I've been on the phone all morning trying to find someone to sell
                          me a small piece of 1/4" plate and 20' or so of tube steel. I can't
                          believe that a town so attached to the steel industry doesn't have a
                          single place that can sell small amounts of steel to a one-man shop.
                          >
                          > --
                          > jet / KG6ZVQ
                          > http://www.flatline.net
                          > pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8
                          C2E8
                          >
                        • j eric townsend
                          Just an update -- it turns out there s a Metal Supermarket not too far away, so I can always go there if need be. ... -- jet / KG6ZVQ http://www.flatline.net
                          Message 12 of 30 , Aug 9, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Just an update -- it turns out there's a Metal Supermarket not too far away, so I can always go there if need be.


                            At 11:13 -0400 8/9/07, j eric townsend wrote:
                            >Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but is anyone on this list in/near Pittsburgh, PA? If so, where do you go for metal stock?
                            >
                            >I've been on the phone all morning trying to find someone to sell me a small piece of 1/4" plate and 20' or so of tube steel. I can't believe that a town so attached to the steel industry doesn't have a single place that can sell small amounts of steel to a one-man shop.
                            >
                            >--
                            >jet / KG6ZVQ
                            >http://www.flatline.net
                            >pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            --
                            jet / KG6ZVQ
                            http://www.flatline.net
                            pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8
                          • Teagus
                            metal supermarket is a good source. Also try Omslaer Steel in Coraopolis. Valley Steel is in Rochester, Beaver County.
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 19, 2007
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                              metal supermarket is a good source. Also try Omslaer Steel in
                              Coraopolis. Valley Steel is in Rochester, Beaver County.
                            • Paul
                              At the correct surface feet per minute for the cutter and the material these machines mill OK. I do have my machine on a pretty heavy homemade stand too.
                              Message 14 of 30 , Sep 19, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                At the correct surface feet per minute for the cutter and the material
                                these machines mill OK. I do have my machine on a pretty heavy
                                homemade stand too. They're no Bridgeports but you can cut with them.



                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth A. Emmert" <mds1878@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Understood! Also look up the feedback on the machines -
                                > > interesting items.
                                > > For most applications they are just fine and I am still wondering
                                > > why I just don't buy one. I am troubled by several comments
                                > > however: 1) severe noise and vibration at high speed and 2)
                                > > recommentdations to fill the column with sand or concrete that
                                > > expands a little.
                                >
                                > I picked up a RF31 from HF about 6 weeks ago for $750 when they had
                                > those 15% off any one item coupons out.
                                >
                                > M/D RF31 was a much better model than the floor version with scraped
                                > ways. Machine is happy except I need to do some adjustment on fine
                                > feed movement not as smooth as I would like. Also a change out to 220
                                > volt from 110 version delivered. Its a dual voltage motor and a minor
                                > project.
                                >
                                > Vibration and Mill/Drills go together when your cut exceeds the mills
                                > rigidity. Think of it kind of like an alarm bell! Filling the column
                                > can help also a good heavy stand. Not the sheetmetal junk they sell
                                > as a stand.
                                >
                                >
                                > Ken
                                >
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