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VFD on a buffer. LOT(little off topic)

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  • James Hudson
    I am looking for a buffer to use when cleaning and dressing up my metal projects. I have a line on a used Baldor but it is 3 phase. Does anyone see me having a
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 9, 2007
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      I am looking for a buffer to use when cleaning and dressing up my
      metal projects. I have a line on a used Baldor but it is 3 phase.
      Does anyone see me having a problem to buy one of those Hitachi 2HP
      VFD's and use it to run the buffer? I have 220 but only 1 phase.
      If I get the buffer cheap enough, I can still buy the VFD and be money
      ahead over the price of a new Baldor.
      Thanks,
      James
    • Michael Parrish
      I see no reason why not. Maybe even an opportunity. Some of the VFD s can be programmed for more than one motor. With a little creative outlet/pluggery, you
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 9, 2007
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        I see no reason why not. Maybe even an opportunity. Some of the VFD's
        can be programmed for more than one motor. With a little creative
        outlet/pluggery, you could use it on multiple devices. I'll bet that
        variable speed on the buffer might have benefits too. I think there is
        somebody here, or on the 9x20 list, that runs his mill and lathe off
        of the same VFD. I have a 3ph motor for my lathe (another project) and
        a VFD on my mill, I think I'll be considering trying it. MIKE

        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "James Hudson" <hudsonjames@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am looking for a buffer to use when cleaning and dressing up my
        > metal projects. I have a line on a used Baldor but it is 3 phase.
        > Does anyone see me having a problem to buy one of those Hitachi 2HP
        > VFD's and use it to run the buffer? I have 220 but only 1 phase.
        > If I get the buffer cheap enough, I can still buy the VFD and be money
        > ahead over the price of a new Baldor.
        > Thanks,
        > James
        >
      • Jerry Kimberlin
        ... All VFDs that I know of can be programmed for more than one motor. But there are very few VFDs that are made to take a switched output. Many will just
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 9, 2007
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          Michael Parrish wrote:
          > I see no reason why not. Maybe even an opportunity. Some of the VFD's
          > can be programmed for more than one motor.

          All VFDs that I know of can be programmed for more than one motor. But
          there are very few VFDs that are made to take a switched output. Many
          will just fry when you switch the output while the VFD is powered up.
          > With a little creative
          > outlet/pluggery, you could use it on multiple devices.

          You could just wire the shop for 220 3-phase and hook the wires to the
          output of the VFD. Just make sure you buy the correct VFD.
          > I'll bet that
          > variable speed on the buffer might have benefits too. I think there is
          > somebody here, or on the 9x20 list, that runs his mill and lathe off
          > of the same VFD. I have a 3ph motor for my lathe (another project) and
          > a VFD on my mill, I think I'll be considering trying it.

          The only downside that I see is that you have no independent speed and
          RPM/Hz control for multiple motors hooked to the same VFD. If you only
          operate one machine at a time, then there is no problem. I have one VFD
          on each of my three machines with 3-phase motors. They do work
          fantastic and I'd never be without the arrangement.

          JerryK
        • corey renner
          You can t do this Jerry, the connection between the VFD and load being driven should never be switched with the VFD powered-up. VFD s are dirt-cheap nowadays,
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 9, 2007
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            You can't do this Jerry, the connection between the VFD and load being driven should never be switched with the VFD powered-up.

            VFD's are dirt-cheap nowadays, no reason to not have one for each machine.  I've got one on each of my mills.

            cheers,
            c

            On 7/9/07, Jerry Kimberlin <kimberln@...> wrote:


            You could just wire the shop for 220 3-phase and hook the wires to the
            output of the VFD. Just make sure you buy the correct VFD.


          • Michael Parrish
            ... motor. But ... Many ... up. I guess I should have said that some VFD s will remember more than one motor, avoiding having to reprogram when you change
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 10, 2007
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              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Kimberlin <kimberln@...>
              wrote:
              > All VFDs that I know of can be programmed for more than one
              motor. But
              > there are very few VFDs that are made to take a switched output.
              Many
              > will just fry when you switch the output while the VFD is powered
              up.

              I guess I should have said that some VFD's will remember more than
              one motor, avoiding having to reprogram when you change devices.
              This leads me to beleive that they were intended to be used in that
              way. Not having read the manual for ALL VFD's, I'll go with some. I
              was thinking that if the VFD were wired to a switch so you could de-
              power it while changing devices, and you wired it's output to an
              outlet. Then you put the same 3ph plug on each device, and use one
              VFD for multiple devices.
              > > I'll bet that
              > > variable speed on the buffer might have benefits too. I think
              there is
              > > somebody here, or on the 9x20 list, that runs his mill and lathe
              off
              > > of the same VFD. I have a 3ph motor for my lathe (another
              project) and
              > > a VFD on my mill, I think I'll be considering trying it.
              >

              > The only downside that I see is that you have no independent speed
              and
              > RPM/Hz control for multiple motors hooked to the same VFD. If you
              only
              > operate one machine at a time, then there is no problem. I have
              one VFD
              > on each of my three machines with 3-phase motors. They do work
              > fantastic and I'd never be without the arrangement.
              >
              > JerryK
              >

              Exactly, one machine at a time. That wouldn't be too much of a
              problem for me. I can only run them one at a time. I guess I am
              poor. To get the benefits of a VFD on another machine without having
              to buy another VFD seemed appealing to me. At least enough that if I
              were selecting a new VFD, I may check to see if it will store the
              parameters of more than one motor. To each his own. MIKE
            • C.S. Mo
              I run one VFD between my mill and my surface grinder. I just make sure that I never switch it while the VFD is on. I didn t have any appropriate 3 pole, high
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 10, 2007
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                I run one VFD between my mill and my surface grinder. I just make sure
                that I never switch it while the VFD is on. I didn't have any
                appropriate 3 pole, high amp switches for the 3 phase output, so I used
                two DP 30 amp toggle switches (I assume BAD things would happen if I
                ever flipped one of them and not the other, but it works.)

                For controls, I just wired up two sets of control input lines and used a
                multi-pole rotary switch to determine which set of controls are actually
                controlling it.

                The wiring basically goes like this:

                220 1 phase -> 220v/20amp switch -> VFD

                VFD -> Toggle Switch Position A -> Milling Machine
                VFD -> Toggle Switch Position B -> Surface Grinder

                VFD Output Lines -> Rotary Switch -> Controls A/B

                The only problem I've had is I've forgotten to switch the controls over
                when I've switched the VFD from one machine to another. Obviously I can
                only run one machine at a time, but that's never been a real drawback for me.

                --C.S.

                >--- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Kimberlin <kimberln@...>
                >wrote:
                >> All VFDs that I know of can be programmed for more than one
                >motor. But
                >> there are very few VFDs that are made to take a switched output.
                >Many
                >> will just fry when you switch the output while the VFD is powered
                >up.
                >
                >I guess I should have said that some VFD's will remember more than
                >one motor, avoiding having to reprogram when you change devices.
                >This leads me to beleive that they were intended to be used in that
                >way. Not having read the manual for ALL VFD's, I'll go with some. I
                >was thinking that if the VFD were wired to a switch so you could de-
                >power it while changing devices, and you wired it's output to an
                >outlet. Then you put the same 3ph plug on each device, and use one
                >VFD for multiple devices.
                >> > I'll bet that
                >> > variable speed on the buffer might have benefits too. I think
                >there is
                >> > somebody here, or on the 9x20 list, that runs his mill and lathe
                >off
                >> > of the same VFD. I have a 3ph motor for my lathe (another
                >project) and
                >> > a VFD on my mill, I think I'll be considering trying it.
                >>
                >
                >> The only downside that I see is that you have no independent speed
                >and
                >> RPM/Hz control for multiple motors hooked to the same VFD. If you
                >only
                >> operate one machine at a time, then there is no problem. I have
                >one VFD
                >> on each of my three machines with 3-phase motors. They do work
                >> fantastic and I'd never be without the arrangement.
                >>
                >> JerryK
                >>
                >
                >Exactly, one machine at a time. That wouldn't be too much of a
                >problem for me. I can only run them one at a time. I guess I am
                >poor. To get the benefits of a VFD on another machine without having
                >to buy another VFD seemed appealing to me. At least enough that if I
                >were selecting a new VFD, I may check to see if it will store the
                >parameters of more than one motor. To each his own. MIKE
              • Michael Parrish
                What he said. :) MIKE ... sure ... used ... I ... used a ... actually ... over ... I can ... drawback for me. ... output. ... powered ... than ... that ... I
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 10, 2007
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                  What he said. :) MIKE

                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "C.S. Mo" <cs@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I run one VFD between my mill and my surface grinder. I just make
                  sure
                  > that I never switch it while the VFD is on. I didn't have any
                  > appropriate 3 pole, high amp switches for the 3 phase output, so I
                  used
                  > two DP 30 amp toggle switches (I assume BAD things would happen if
                  I
                  > ever flipped one of them and not the other, but it works.)
                  >
                  > For controls, I just wired up two sets of control input lines and
                  used a
                  > multi-pole rotary switch to determine which set of controls are
                  actually
                  > controlling it.
                  >
                  > The wiring basically goes like this:
                  >
                  > 220 1 phase -> 220v/20amp switch -> VFD
                  >
                  > VFD -> Toggle Switch Position A -> Milling Machine
                  > VFD -> Toggle Switch Position B -> Surface Grinder
                  >
                  > VFD Output Lines -> Rotary Switch -> Controls A/B
                  >
                  > The only problem I've had is I've forgotten to switch the controls
                  over
                  > when I've switched the VFD from one machine to another. Obviously
                  I can
                  > only run one machine at a time, but that's never been a real
                  drawback for me.
                  >
                  > --C.S.
                  >
                  > >--- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Kimberlin <kimberln@>
                  > >wrote:
                  > >> All VFDs that I know of can be programmed for more than one
                  > >motor. But
                  > >> there are very few VFDs that are made to take a switched
                  output.
                  > >Many
                  > >> will just fry when you switch the output while the VFD is
                  powered
                  > >up.
                  > >
                  > >I guess I should have said that some VFD's will remember more
                  than
                  > >one motor, avoiding having to reprogram when you change devices.
                  > >This leads me to beleive that they were intended to be used in
                  that
                  > >way. Not having read the manual for ALL VFD's, I'll go with some.
                  I
                  > >was thinking that if the VFD were wired to a switch so you could
                  de-
                  > >power it while changing devices, and you wired it's output to an
                  > >outlet. Then you put the same 3ph plug on each device, and use
                  one
                  > >VFD for multiple devices.
                  > >> > I'll bet that
                  > >> > variable speed on the buffer might have benefits too. I think
                  > >there is
                  > >> > somebody here, or on the 9x20 list, that runs his mill and
                  lathe
                  > >off
                  > >> > of the same VFD. I have a 3ph motor for my lathe (another
                  > >project) and
                  > >> > a VFD on my mill, I think I'll be considering trying it.
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >> The only downside that I see is that you have no independent
                  speed
                  > >and
                  > >> RPM/Hz control for multiple motors hooked to the same VFD. If
                  you
                  > >only
                  > >> operate one machine at a time, then there is no problem. I
                  have
                  > >one VFD
                  > >> on each of my three machines with 3-phase motors. They do work
                  > >> fantastic and I'd never be without the arrangement.
                  > >>
                  > >> JerryK
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >Exactly, one machine at a time. That wouldn't be too much of a
                  > >problem for me. I can only run them one at a time. I guess I am
                  > >poor. To get the benefits of a VFD on another machine without
                  having
                  > >to buy another VFD seemed appealing to me. At least enough that
                  if I
                  > >were selecting a new VFD, I may check to see if it will store the
                  > >parameters of more than one motor. To each his own. MIKE
                  >
                • Jerry Kimberlin
                  ... I think I said that, exactly that. I also said there are certain VFDs that will stand a switched output, but you will have to find the right one. If you
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 10, 2007
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                    corey renner wrote:
                    > You can't do this Jerry, the connection between the VFD and load being
                    > driven should never be switched with the VFD powered-up.

                    I think I said that, exactly that. I also said there are certain VFDs
                    that will stand a switched output, but you will have to find the right
                    one. If you do, then you can wire the shop with the VFD output
                    supplying the power. Even so, you can't control each motor
                    independently for speed and direction, so you can't run more than one
                    machine at a time unless you run them at the same speed and direction.
                    >
                    > VFD's are dirt-cheap nowadays, no reason to not have one for each
                    > machine. I've got one on each of my mills.

                    Exactly, I have three VFDs one on each machine.

                    JerryK
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