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Drill chucks and tapers

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  • mark
    I m looking at upgrading the 1/2 chuck for my 33686. Anybody using the the keyless chucks sold by Enco? The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless? The Enco Ultra-precision
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 28, 2007
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      I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody using the
      the keyless chucks sold by Enco?

      The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?

      The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?

      Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses a key?

      Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the mill. I
      know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?

      Thanks,

      Mark
    • William Abernathy
      I recently bought an Enco keyless, and I like the fit, finish, and feel of it. For the money, it s quite a nice chuck. This being said, it, and I assume other
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 28, 2007
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        I recently bought an Enco keyless, and I like the fit, finish, and feel of it.
        For the money, it's quite a nice chuck.

        This being said, it, and I assume other keyless designs, do use up quite a bit
        of z-space, which is a problem on round-column mill-drills. If you have to drill
        a center, then a pilot, then a big hole, then tap, you can find yourself
        getting into some pretty hairy setup challenges to maintain your zero.

        All other things being equal though, I'm glad I got it, and I use it regularly.
        The keyed Rohm went to my little drill press, and the other chucks went to the
        lathe turret.

        --William A.

        mark wrote:
        > I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody using the
        > the keyless chucks sold by Enco?
        >
        > The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?
        >
        > The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?
        >
        > Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses a key?
        >
        > Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the mill. I
        > know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Mark
        >
      • FocusKnobs
        I use an Albrecht keyless chuck with integral R-8 shank on my Zay7045. I will NEVER use a keyed chuck again . Lou ... From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 28, 2007
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          I use an Albrecht keyless chuck with integral R-8 shank on my Zay7045. I
          will NEVER use a keyed chuck again <g>.

          Lou

          -----Original Message-----
          From: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mill_drill@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of mark
          Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 6:41 AM
          To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [mill_drill] Drill chucks and tapers

          I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody using the
          the keyless chucks sold by Enco?

          The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?

          The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?

          Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses a key?

          Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the mill. I
          know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?

          Thanks,

          Mark




          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Bill Pace
          I decided to gamble on one of the $25-30 import keyless and am quite amazed at the thing... I ve gone back and got a couple more. Many of the dealers will
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 28, 2007
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            I decided to gamble on one of the $25-30 import keyless and am quite
            amazed at the thing... I've gone back and got a couple more. Many of
            the dealers will throw in a R-8 shank with purchase.



            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <gmiller4396@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody using the
            > the keyless chucks sold by Enco?
            >
            > The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?
            >
            > The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?
            >
            > Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses a key?
            >
            > Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the mill. I
            > know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Mark
            >
          • mark
            Hello Bill. Are the chucks you bought from eBay or Enco? I ve looked at both and was wondering about some of the ones on eBay. They say the runout is between
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 29, 2007
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              Hello Bill. Are the chucks you bought from eBay or Enco? I've looked
              at both and was wondering about some of the ones on eBay. They say
              the runout is between .0551 and .07?. This seemed like it could be a
              lot, I don't know. Is that normal for a 1/2" or 5/8' chuck? I would
              hope that the Enco chucks would be better, but they may be the same
              chucks.

              Mark


              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Pace" <pace8@...> wrote:
              >
              > I decided to gamble on one of the $25-30 import keyless and am quite
              > amazed at the thing... I've gone back and got a couple more. Many of
              > the dealers will throw in a R-8 shank with purchase.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <gmiller4396@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody
              using the
              > > the keyless chucks sold by Enco?
              > >
              > > The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?
              > >
              > > The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?
              > >
              > > Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses
              a key?
              > >
              > > Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the
              mill. I
              > > know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Mark
              > >
              >
            • EARL BOWER
              Mark, Bill, et al I have been using both key type and keyless (just bought new keyless with straight shank adapters) for use on my mill/drill and South Bend
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 29, 2007
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                Mark, Bill, et al
                 
                I have been using both key type and keyless (just bought new keyless with straight shank adapters) for use on my mill/drill and South Bend lathe.
                 
                I went to straight shank on the mill as I wanted to use a smaller chuck for some drilling and tapping.
                 
                I only use centerdrills, drills, countersinks, and counterbores with the drill chucks.
                 
                Over the years (since 1977) that I have been machining, I have found that an end mill will cause the drill chuck to come loose from the adapter (especially with the ones that mount with a Jacobs taper in the drill chuck body).
                 
                I have several that have a 1/2-20 thread in the body of the chuck, and these are the ones that I use for for spot facing in the mill.
                 
                I never use end mills in the drill chuck for milling purposes.
                 
                I just purchased two keyless chucks (imports) and found that they had no runout.  (one I purchased at the NAMES2007 show - 0-1/4 and the other at a antique gas engine show, in Coolspring, PA - 0-3/8).  I purchased both with the 1/2 straight shank for use in the 1/2 collet that I have for the mill.
                 
                I have one of the largest chucks (the one that usually comes with the mill) with the R8 taper for the mill.  It works fine for drilling but I have tried to use it once for milling but the end mill but it will pull out under too heavy of a cut.  I have used (in the past), using and end mill, for odd ball counterbores but the counterbores were not that deep.
                 
                I checked ebay and ENCO and did not see where the runout was stated.
                 
                If you are buying used chucks, from ebay or flea market, there is a possibility that the run out could be that much.  That is due to use and the jaws worn.  (You will find this even in Jacobs chucks).
                 
                I have several chucks, in my shop, that are worn and have not used them, in years, and would not sell them.  Jacobs wants too much for just the jaws.
                 
                I would suggest buying new, if at all possible.  Just my opinion from experience over the years.

                Earl Bower

                mark <gmiller4396@...> wrote:
                Hello Bill. Are the chucks you bought from eBay or Enco? I've looked
                at both and was wondering about some of the ones on eBay. They say
                the runout is between .0551 and .07?. This seemed like it could be a
                lot, I don't know. Is that normal for a 1/2" or 5/8' chuck? I would
                hope that the Enco chucks would be better, but they may be the same
                chucks.

                Mark


                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Pace" wrote:
                >
                > I decided to gamble on one of the $25-30 import keyless and am quite
                > amazed at the thing... I've gone back and got a couple more. Many of
                > the dealers will throw in a R-8 shank with purchase.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" wrote:
                > >
                > > I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody
                using the
                > > the keyless chucks sold by Enco?
                > >
                > > The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?
                > >
                > > The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?
                > >
                > > Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses
                a key?
                > >
                > > Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the
                mill. I
                > > know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > >
                > > Mark
              • mark
                A couple of Ebay listings had runout in the listings. Sorry that I don t know to transfer the links, so all I can do is post the listing # s. 150129741707,
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 29, 2007
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                  A couple of Ebay listings had runout in the listings. Sorry that I
                  don't know to transfer the links, so all I can do is post the listing
                  #'s.

                  150129741707, Tools4cheap 330088196753, discount_machine

                  I was looking for info and ideas, and was wondering if this would
                  be "normal", or just cya runout specs.

                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, EARL BOWER <earl.bower1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mark, Bill, et al
                  >
                  > I have been using both key type and keyless (just bought new
                  keyless with straight shank adapters) for use on my mill/drill and
                  South Bend lathe.
                  > I have several that have a 1/2-20 thread in the body of the
                  chuck, and these are the ones that I use for for spot facing in the
                  mill.
                  >
                  > I never use end mills in the drill chuck for milling purposes.
                  >
                  > I just purchased two keyless chucks (imports) and found that they
                  had no runout. (one I purchased at the NAMES2007 show - 0-1/4 and
                  the other at a antique gas engine show, in Coolspring, PA - 0-3/8).
                  I purchased both with the 1/2 straight shank for use in the 1/2
                  collet that I have for the mill.
                  >
                  .
                  >
                  > I checked ebay and ENCO and did not see where the runout was
                  stated.
                  >
                  > If you are buying used chucks, from ebay or flea market, there is
                  a possibility that the run out could be that much. That is due to
                  use and the jaws worn. (You will find this even in Jacobs chucks).
                  >
                  > I have several chucks, in my shop, that are worn and have not
                  used them, in years, and would not sell them. Jacobs wants too much
                  for just the jaws.
                  >
                  > I would suggest buying new, if at all possible. Just my opinion
                  from experience over the years.
                  >
                  > Earl Bower
                  >
                  > mark <gmiller4396@...> wrote:
                  > Hello Bill. Are the chucks you bought from eBay or Enco? I've
                  looked
                  > at both and was wondering about some of the ones on eBay. They say
                  > the runout is between .0551 and .07?. This seemed like it could be
                  a
                  > lot, I don't know. Is that normal for a 1/2" or 5/8' chuck? I would
                  > hope that the Enco chucks would be better, but they may be the same
                  > chucks.
                  >
                  > Mark
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Pace"
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I decided to gamble on one of the $25-30 import keyless and am
                  quite
                  > > amazed at the thing... I've gone back and got a couple more. Many
                  of
                  > > the dealers will throw in a R-8 shank with purchase.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody
                  > using the
                  > > > the keyless chucks sold by Enco?
                  > > >
                  > > > The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?
                  > > >
                  > > > The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?
                  > > >
                  > > > Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that
                  uses
                  > a key?
                  > > >
                  > > > Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the
                  > mill. I
                  > > > know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Mark
                  >
                • Bill Pace
                  IIRMC one was from Kitts, one from CDCO and one? off ebay --Discount machine?....I m not real sure on this, I kinda figured they were all pretty much alike and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 29, 2007
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                    IIRMC one was from Kitts, one from CDCO and one? off ebay --Discount
                    machine?....I'm not real sure on this, I kinda figured they were all
                    pretty much alike and when ordering something else I'll add one of
                    those type things that I wanna 'experiment' on to cut down on frt.
                    Actually, ENCO is prolly as good as anybody, they seem to have pretty
                    good stuff, and if youre ordering other stuff, you can get the free frt.
                    http://www.cdcotools.com/index.php

                    I checked the first chuck for runout and I dont remember what it was
                    except that the indicator only flickered slightly, the just started
                    using the others.....


                    --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <gmiller4396@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Bill. Are the chucks you bought from eBay or Enco? I've looked
                    > at both and was wondering about some of the ones on eBay. They say
                    > the runout is between .0551 and .07?. This seemed like it could be a
                    > lot, I don't know. Is that normal for a 1/2" or 5/8' chuck? I would
                    > hope that the Enco chucks would be better, but they may be the same
                    > chucks.
                    >
                    > Mark
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Pace" <pace8@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I decided to gamble on one of the $25-30 import keyless and am quite
                    > > amazed at the thing... I've gone back and got a couple more. Many of
                    > > the dealers will throw in a R-8 shank with purchase.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <gmiller4396@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody
                    > using the
                    > > > the keyless chucks sold by Enco?
                    > > >
                    > > > The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?
                    > > >
                    > > > The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?
                    > > >
                    > > > Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses
                    > a key?
                    > > >
                    > > > Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the
                    > mill. I
                    > > > know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > >
                    > > > Mark
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • EARL BOWER
                    Mark, If you check the chucks again, you will find that you accidently left out a 0. I found that your stated .0551 should have been .0055 and your .07 should
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 29, 2007
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                      Mark,
                       
                      If you check the chucks again, you will find that you accidently left out a 0.
                       
                      I found that your stated .0551 should have been .0055 and your .07 should have been .007.
                       
                      If you are using dowel pin (hardened and ground to size) I would use an undersize reamer for the reamed hole.  Also, I use a drill about .010-.015 under the size of the reamer to use these pins.  I usually use roll pins (called spring pins) and use the exact size drill for the stated hole.  You will find that these pins are always oversize.
                       
                      I drilling tap drill holes, I usually use a drill one size below the chart stated.  (e.g.  #10-32 tap drill is #21 drill (.159) but sometimes step to #22 or #23 which is .002 to .006 smaller).  When ever possible I use the shorter (screw machine drill) for tapping.  I keep several of each size on hand so when they become dull, I can get a new one.  (As soon as I can get my Quorn Tool and Cutter Grinder finished (rebuilt) I will start to sharpen my own.  Over the years I used to hand sharpen them but as I got older I find it harder to do this.
                       
                      This is what I was taught years ago by several old machinists where I worked as a tool designer. 
                      Enco is now owned by MSC and most of thier stock is the same.  I have purchased chucks from both of them and there seems to be no different in quality.
                       
                      I have never worried about the run out on any drill chuck.  It is strictly the holding power.  Most keyless chucks hold as good as a key type chuck.  In key type chucks, you have to watch the jaws as they will flatten out if too much pressure is used.  The drill will spin in either chuck (or break, had this happen before) if it gets jammed.
                       
                      As stated in previous email that I try to get chucks with 1/2-20 thread and get threaded adapters.  My 3 keyless chucks have jacobs tapers in them and had to buy the appropiate adapter.  Unless you have both chuck and adapter good and clean you will get more run out.  I have found that when seating the adapter, that it will sometimes release itself if it is not seated good enough.
                       
                       
                      Earl Bower

                      mark <gmiller4396@...> wrote:
                      A couple of Ebay listings had runout in the listings. Sorry that I
                      don't know to transfer the links, so all I can do is post the listing
                      #'s.

                      150129741707, Tools4cheap 330088196753, discount_machine

                      I was looking for info and ideas, and was wondering if this would
                      be "normal", or just cya runout specs.

                    • n5kzw
                      Keyless chucks are ok as long as you never have to use the M/D in reverse with a left-handed drill or a drill-type screw extractor. If you do, you had better
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 1, 2007
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                        Keyless chucks are ok as long as you never have to use the M/D in
                        reverse with a left-handed drill or a drill-type screw extractor. If
                        you do, you had better see how tight you can torque down on the chuck.

                        Regards,
                        Ed

                        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "mark" <gmiller4396@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm looking at upgrading the 1/2" chuck for my 33686. Anybody using the
                        > the keyless chucks sold by Enco?
                        >
                        > The Rohm 1/32-1/2 keyless?
                        >
                        > The Enco Ultra-precision 0-1/2"?
                        >
                        > Are these keyless chucks OK, or should I stick with one that uses a key?
                        >
                        > Can anybody tell me the taper for the chuck that came with the mill. I
                        > know the machine end is R-8, but what is the chuck end?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Mark
                        >
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