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Re: [mill_drill] Re: Industrial Hobbies Square Column Mill Sale

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  • Jerry Kimberlin
    ... Scott, Actually not so much design as in the building of the machine. It is pretty much the same design as the Rong Fu RF-45. The handbook(?) I have for
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 3, 2006
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      hscarson1 wrote:


      > Could you please provide some specifics regarding the design
      > deficiencies that you mentioned?

      Scott,

      Actually not so much design as in the building of the
      machine. It is pretty much the same design as the Rong Fu
      RF-45. The handbook(?) I have for it says it is a ZAY7045.
      It just wasn't very well machined when they made it. For
      instance, the table slots are all parallel and the same
      width, but under the slots where you slide the T-nut into
      are different on one end than the other - tapered.

      When you tighten the Y-axis gib to hold the table from
      moving, the X-axis also tightens up. Flimsy castings.

      The table was tight at both ends of the x-axis right out of
      the box. I smoothed the gib and lapped the table dovetails
      to some extent, but it didn't help much.

      The x-axis acme screw is held at both ends by a roll pin
      making it impossible to remove/adjust backlash.

      The Z-axis has about 1/8" of play vertically, so when you
      drill holes the spindle falls of its own accord when you
      pull down on the handle a little. The spindle clamp has to
      be tightened to help this, but that isn't a good fix. This
      is slop between the rack on the spindle and its mating gear.

      My fine downfeed has never worked right. I don't use it
      anyway so never bothered to try to fix it.

      I sure not every G0519 is this way. It is probably the
      variable machining skills of the people making them,
      changing of worn cutting tools in the factory, etc., that
      really cause the problems. Perhaps later machines are
      better. I've got one of the first machines, I think.

      The reason I bought it was for the 3-phase motor and the
      large spindle to table distance of nearly 20" I put a VFD
      on the machine and that makes it run very well. I also put
      a DRO-350 on it with USDigital scales and that solves most
      of the table backlash problems. I had to make my own T-nuts
      so that they fit in from either end of the table

      Grizzly provides good service and I have other machines from
      them that are really good - woodworking stuff. Grizzly sort
      of specializes in woodworking machinery if their catalog is
      any indication and metalworking is still rather 2nd on their
      list.

      > Do you have other recommendations that would be better options in this
      > same price range?

      I always recommend a knee mill even if it is a smaller one.
      They seem to be better made/more accurate than most of the
      mill/drills. They are heavier and more solid too. I have a
      knee mill also - an old Nichols horizontal mill with
      vertical head - which is solid as a rock.

      The Griz G3102 is probably one example of a vertical knee
      mill that several people have. Wholesale tool also has a
      small knee mill http://www.wttool.com/p/3004-0095 But,
      really, I have no knowledge of these and recommendations
      would best be coming from someone else. Of course I could
      always recommend a used Bridgeport and would get one in an
      instant if I had the space. (standard space complaint)

      > Is the Sieg X3 a better product?

      I can't really answer that as I have no experience with one
      and have never seen one.

      Cheers,

      JerryK
    • Robert George
      ... I thought all the RF-45 clones (Grizzly, Enco, Industrial Hobbies, Lathemaster, Penn Tool, and WholesaleTool) were essentially the same ZAY7045 from
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 3, 2006
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        --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Kimberlin <kimberln@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > hscarson1 wrote:
        >
        > > Could you please provide some specifics regarding the design
        > > deficiencies that you mentioned?
        >
        > Scott,
        >
        > Actually not so much design as in the building of the
        > machine. It is pretty much the same design as the Rong Fu
        > RF-45. The handbook(?) I have for it says it is a ZAY7045.

        I thought all the RF-45 clones (Grizzly, Enco, Industrial Hobbies,
        Lathemaster, Penn Tool, and WholesaleTool) were essentially the same
        ZAY7045 from mainland China?

        It was my understanding that the Industrial Hobbies machine added a
        longer table, just like Grizzly's G1006/1007 is a RF-30 clone with
        a longer table.
      • Robert Breton
        Scott, I have the Enco clone of the RF-45. Overall I ve been pretty happy with it. The only real issue I hade was the column was not even close to square with
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 3, 2006
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          Scott,

          I have the Enco clone of the RF-45. Overall I've been pretty happy with
          it. The only real issue I hade was the column was not even close to square
          with the table. I ended removing the column, filling off the body putty,
          scraping the high spots and finally adding shims to the base to square
          everything up. There is a lot of backlash in the X-axis on my mill as well.

          Bob

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jerry Kimberlin" <kimberln@...>
          To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Industrial Hobbies Square Column Mill Sale


          > hscarson1 wrote:
          >
          >
          >> Could you please provide some specifics regarding the design
          >> deficiencies that you mentioned?
          >
          > Scott,
          >
          > Actually not so much design as in the building of the
          > machine. It is pretty much the same design as the Rong Fu
          > RF-45. The handbook(?) I have for it says it is a ZAY7045.
          > It just wasn't very well machined when they made it. For
          > instance, the table slots are all parallel and the same
          > width, but under the slots where you slide the T-nut into
          > are different on one end than the other - tapered.
          >
          > When you tighten the Y-axis gib to hold the table from
          > moving, the X-axis also tightens up. Flimsy castings.
          >
          > The table was tight at both ends of the x-axis right out of
          > the box. I smoothed the gib and lapped the table dovetails
          > to some extent, but it didn't help much.
          >
          > The x-axis acme screw is held at both ends by a roll pin
          > making it impossible to remove/adjust backlash.
          >
          > The Z-axis has about 1/8" of play vertically, so when you
          > drill holes the spindle falls of its own accord when you
          > pull down on the handle a little. The spindle clamp has to
          > be tightened to help this, but that isn't a good fix. This
          > is slop between the rack on the spindle and its mating gear.
          >
          > My fine downfeed has never worked right. I don't use it
          > anyway so never bothered to try to fix it.
          >
          > I sure not every G0519 is this way. It is probably the
          > variable machining skills of the people making them,
          > changing of worn cutting tools in the factory, etc., that
          > really cause the problems. Perhaps later machines are
          > better. I've got one of the first machines, I think.
          >
          > The reason I bought it was for the 3-phase motor and the
          > large spindle to table distance of nearly 20" I put a VFD
          > on the machine and that makes it run very well. I also put
          > a DRO-350 on it with USDigital scales and that solves most
          > of the table backlash problems. I had to make my own T-nuts
          > so that they fit in from either end of the table
          >
          > Grizzly provides good service and I have other machines from
          > them that are really good - woodworking stuff. Grizzly sort
          > of specializes in woodworking machinery if their catalog is
          > any indication and metalworking is still rather 2nd on their
          > list.
          >
          >> Do you have other recommendations that would be better options in this
          >> same price range?
          >
          > I always recommend a knee mill even if it is a smaller one.
          > They seem to be better made/more accurate than most of the
          > mill/drills. They are heavier and more solid too. I have a
          > knee mill also - an old Nichols horizontal mill with
          > vertical head - which is solid as a rock.
          >
          > The Griz G3102 is probably one example of a vertical knee
          > mill that several people have. Wholesale tool also has a
          > small knee mill http://www.wttool.com/p/3004-0095 But,
          > really, I have no knowledge of these and recommendations
          > would best be coming from someone else. Of course I could
          > always recommend a used Bridgeport and would get one in an
          > instant if I had the space. (standard space complaint)
          >
          >> Is the Sieg X3 a better product?
          >
          > I can't really answer that as I have no experience with one
          > and have never seen one.
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > JerryK
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • hscarson1
          Thanks for your inputs. From your comments, these manufacturing deficiencies seem comparable to the ones I ve experienced on my entry-level mini mill, just on
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 7, 2006
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            Thanks for your inputs. From your comments, these manufacturing
            deficiencies seem comparable to the ones I've experienced on my
            entry-level mini mill, just on a larger scale.

            Would sure like to hear if others have had better luck with this style
            mill (RF45 clone). I don't mind the "project" concept requiring the
            mill to be disassembled, cleaned up, and adjusted. But I really don't
            want another mill that is poorly machined and will never be able to
            consistently produce good results due to excessive backlash, shifting
            spindle height when clamping, etc. At this point, my preference would
            be to find an affordable mill that I can to use for milling versus
            spending my time working on the mill. But like most people, funds are
            limited so some compromises are necessary.

            Besides the more expensive Rong Fu, can anyone recommend a brand /
            Chinese clone that has a track record of being higher quality, eg,
            Grizzly, Lathmaster, etc.?

            Would a person be better off with one of the 6x26 knee style mills if
            the table travel / spindle clearance is adequate?

            Thanks again to everyone for your inputs.

            Scott


            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Breton" <rgbreton@...> wrote:
            >
            > Scott,
            >
            > I have the Enco clone of the RF-45. Overall I've been pretty
            happy with
            > it. The only real issue I hade was the column was not even close to
            square
            > with the table. I ended removing the column, filling off the body
            putty,
            > scraping the high spots and finally adding shims to the base to square
            > everything up. There is a lot of backlash in the X-axis on my mill
            as well.
            >
            > Bob
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Jerry Kimberlin" <kimberln@...>
            > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:13 PM
            > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] Re: Industrial Hobbies Square Column Mill Sale
            >
            >
            > > hscarson1 wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >> Could you please provide some specifics regarding the design
            > >> deficiencies that you mentioned?
            > >
            > > Scott,
            > >
            > > Actually not so much design as in the building of the
            > > machine. It is pretty much the same design as the Rong Fu
            > > RF-45. The handbook(?) I have for it says it is a ZAY7045.
            > > It just wasn't very well machined when they made it. For
            > > instance, the table slots are all parallel and the same
            > > width, but under the slots where you slide the T-nut into
            > > are different on one end than the other - tapered.
            > >
            > > When you tighten the Y-axis gib to hold the table from
            > > moving, the X-axis also tightens up. Flimsy castings.
            > >
            > > The table was tight at both ends of the x-axis right out of
            > > the box. I smoothed the gib and lapped the table dovetails
            > > to some extent, but it didn't help much.
            > >
            > > The x-axis acme screw is held at both ends by a roll pin
            > > making it impossible to remove/adjust backlash.
            > >
            > > The Z-axis has about 1/8" of play vertically, so when you
            > > drill holes the spindle falls of its own accord when you
            > > pull down on the handle a little. The spindle clamp has to
            > > be tightened to help this, but that isn't a good fix. This
            > > is slop between the rack on the spindle and its mating gear.
            > >
            > > My fine downfeed has never worked right. I don't use it
            > > anyway so never bothered to try to fix it.
            > >
            > > I sure not every G0519 is this way. It is probably the
            > > variable machining skills of the people making them,
            > > changing of worn cutting tools in the factory, etc., that
            > > really cause the problems. Perhaps later machines are
            > > better. I've got one of the first machines, I think.
            > >
            > > The reason I bought it was for the 3-phase motor and the
            > > large spindle to table distance of nearly 20" I put a VFD
            > > on the machine and that makes it run very well. I also put
            > > a DRO-350 on it with USDigital scales and that solves most
            > > of the table backlash problems. I had to make my own T-nuts
            > > so that they fit in from either end of the table
            > >
            > > Grizzly provides good service and I have other machines from
            > > them that are really good - woodworking stuff. Grizzly sort
            > > of specializes in woodworking machinery if their catalog is
            > > any indication and metalworking is still rather 2nd on their
            > > list.
            > >
            > >> Do you have other recommendations that would be better options in
            this
            > >> same price range?
            > >
            > > I always recommend a knee mill even if it is a smaller one.
            > > They seem to be better made/more accurate than most of the
            > > mill/drills. They are heavier and more solid too. I have a
            > > knee mill also - an old Nichols horizontal mill with
            > > vertical head - which is solid as a rock.
            > >
            > > The Griz G3102 is probably one example of a vertical knee
            > > mill that several people have. Wholesale tool also has a
            > > small knee mill http://www.wttool.com/p/3004-0095 But,
            > > really, I have no knowledge of these and recommendations
            > > would best be coming from someone else. Of course I could
            > > always recommend a used Bridgeport and would get one in an
            > > instant if I had the space. (standard space complaint)
            > >
            > >> Is the Sieg X3 a better product?
            > >
            > > I can't really answer that as I have no experience with one
            > > and have never seen one.
            > >
            > > Cheers,
            > >
            > > JerryK
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
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