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R8 Keyway & Pin

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  • Mark Drayton
    I have an RF45 clone with a R8 taper. As I happen to have a full set of ER25 collets for my lathe, some time ago I bought a R8 ER25 collet holder. Now when I
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 4, 2005
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      I have an RF45 clone with a R8 taper. As I happen to have a full set of
      ER25 collets for my lathe, some time ago I bought a R8 ER25 collet
      holder. Now when I come to try to use it, I find that the keyway on the
      R8 shaft has been cut undersize compared with my R8 collets - ~3.9mm
      width compared with 5.1mm and slightly shallower as well. As a result
      the collet holder won't go in the taper. Questions-

      Anyone know what is the correct standard for R8 pin diameter/protruding
      length?

      Which would be easier - mill a wider/deeper keyway or get at the taper
      pin and remove it or turn it down?

      How do I get at the taper pin?

      Mark
    • Alan E. Lutz
      The pin in my RF-20 was actually a small screw. What a PIA removing it from the inside with a small pair of needle nose pliers. You will find the taper
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 4, 2005
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        The "pin" in my RF-20 was actually a small screw.  What a PIA removing it from the inside with a small pair of needle nose pliers.  You will find the taper will grab well enough without it when tightening it up.
         
        AEL
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 2:02 PM
        Subject: [mill_drill] R8 Keyway & Pin


        I have an RF45 clone with a R8 taper. As I happen to have a full set of
        ER25 collets for my lathe, some time ago I bought a R8 ER25 collet
        holder. Now when I come to try to use it, I find that the keyway on the
        R8 shaft has been cut undersize compared with my R8 collets - ~3.9mm
        width compared with 5.1mm and slightly shallower as well. As a result
        the collet holder won't go in the taper. Questions-

        Anyone know what is the correct standard for R8 pin diameter/protruding
        length?

        Which would be easier - mill a wider/deeper keyway or get at the taper
        pin and remove it or turn it down?

        How do I get at the taper pin?

        Mark



      • ppump11578@aol.com
        I dont have an up to date copy but does not Machinery Handbook have details of the keyway etc? or failing do not the public libraries hold copies of the
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 5, 2005
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          I dont have an up to date copy but does not Machinery Handbook have details of the keyway etc? or failing do not the public libraries hold copies of the standards as they do I think in the UK?
          Regards
          pp
        • Mark Drayton
          ... details ... of the ... Thanks, I don t have the Machinery Handbook. It sounds like a trip to the library or some acrobatics to get the pin screw out. That
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 5, 2005
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            --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, ppump11578@a... wrote:
            > I dont have an up to date copy but does not Machinery Handbook have
            details
            > of the keyway etc? or failing do not the public libraries hold copies
            of the
            > standards as they do I think in the UK?
            > Regards
            > pp

            Thanks,

            I don't have the Machinery Handbook. It sounds like a trip to the
            library or some acrobatics to get the pin screw out. That will have to
            wait until I get back from France in a few days.

            Mark
          • n5kzw
            ... Try Google. There may be a spec in the metalworking drop box (Google metalweb news). Ed
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 5, 2005
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              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Drayton" <mark@d...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, ppump11578@a... wrote:
              > > I dont have an up to date copy but does not Machinery Handbook have
              > details
              > > of the keyway etc? or failing do not the public libraries hold copies
              > of the
              > > standards as they do I think in the UK?
              > > Regards
              > > pp
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > I don't have the Machinery Handbook. It sounds like a trip to the
              > library or some acrobatics to get the pin screw out. That will have to
              > wait until I get back from France in a few days.
              >
              > Mark

              Try Google. There may be a spec in the metalworking drop box (Google
              metalweb news).

              Ed
            • G W Howe
              In message , n5kzw writes ... Try this link which gives the spec http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm the groove for
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 5, 2005
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                In message <d2ucpp+p6cl@...>, n5kzw <n5kzw@...> writes
                > There may be a spec
                Try this link which gives the spec
                http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm
                the groove for the pin is 0.156" wide x 0.093" deep.
                --
                Graham Howe mail: (ghowe@...)
                http://www.homepages.mcb.net/howe/
              • leasingham_connelly
                ... I measured a new R8 collet and found that the width of the keyway matches 0.156 but that it was much shallower at 0.060 . Martin
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 6, 2005
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                  --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, G W Howe <ghowe@m...> wrote:
                  > In message <d2ucpp+p6cl@e...>, n5kzw <n5kzw@a...> writes
                  > > There may be a spec
                  > Try this link which gives the spec
                  > http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm
                  > the groove for the pin is 0.156" wide x 0.093" deep.
                  > --
                  > Graham Howe mail: (ghowe@m...)
                  > http://www.homepages.mcb.net/howe/

                  I measured a new R8 collet and found that the width of the keyway
                  matches 0.156" but that it was much shallower at 0.060".

                  Martin
                • G W Howe
                  In message , leasingham_connelly writes ... I checked with another of my references and the key way is
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 6, 2005
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                    In message <d303g7+o0l6@...>, leasingham_connelly
                    <martin.connelly@...> writes
                    >I measured a new R8 collet and found that the width of the keyway
                    >matches 0.156" but that it was much shallower at 0.060".
                    I checked with another of my references and the key way is described-
                    width 0.156+0.01" and depth is shown as from the outer diameter of the
                    register as 0.856-0.10, the register diameter being 0.9496-0.0003".
                    Either way a depth of 0.06" seems a little shallow!
                    --
                    Graham Howe mail: (ghowe@...)
                  • leasingham_connelly
                    ... the ... I ve scanned a full dimensional drawing and put it in the files. If you look through the archives you will find that I have reported having to file
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 7, 2005
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                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, G W Howe <ghowe@m...> wrote:
                      > In message <d303g7+o0l6@e...>, leasingham_connelly
                      > <martin.connelly@s...> writes
                      > >I measured a new R8 collet and found that the width of the keyway
                      > >matches 0.156" but that it was much shallower at 0.060".
                      > I checked with another of my references and the key way is described-
                      > width 0.156+0.01" and depth is shown as from the outer diameter of
                      the
                      > register as 0.856-0.10, the register diameter being 0.9496-0.0003".
                      > Either way a depth of 0.06" seems a little shallow!
                      > --
                      > Graham Howe mail: (ghowe@m...)

                      I've scanned a full dimensional drawing and put it in the files. If
                      you look through the archives you will find that I have reported
                      having to file the keyway slot deeper on some collets to get them to
                      fit into the spindle. The drawing I have scanned matches your
                      dimensions but the new collet I measured was shallow. I have not tried
                      it in the spindle yet but suspect that like many others before it I
                      will need to get out the 1/8" file.

                      Martin
                    • G W Howe
                      In message , leasingham_connelly writes ... Yes, that is the same diagram as mine (ex Tubal Cain). I
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 7, 2005
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                        In message <d338gt+70bg@...>, leasingham_connelly
                        <martin.connelly@...> writes
                        >I've scanned a full dimensional drawing and put it in the files. If you
                        >look through the archives you will find that I have reported having to
                        >file the keyway slot deeper on some collets to get them to fit into the
                        >spindle. The drawing I have scanned matches your dimensions but the new
                        >collet I measured was shallow. I have not tried it in the spindle yet
                        >but suspect that like many others before it I will need to get out the
                        >1/8" file.
                        Yes, that is the same diagram as mine (ex Tubal Cain).
                        I wonder why the taper was chosen as such an odd one and not 16deg or
                        17deg.
                        --
                        Graham Howe mail: (ghowe@...)
                      • Mark Drayton
                        Thanks for all the helpful posts while I have been away. The specs suggested that the width of my ER25 collet holder was spot on, but the depth of ~0.08 was
                        Message 11 of 11 , Apr 9, 2005
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                          Thanks for all the helpful posts while I have been away. The specs
                          suggested that the width of my ER25 collet holder was spot on, but the
                          depth of ~0.08" was too shallow. 10 minutes work with the edge of a
                          file brought the depth down to ~0.095" and the collet holder slips in
                          fine. I am sure Graham's collets wouldn't fit in my taper without
                          similar work. The R8 collets that I use have the fully specified depth
                          and an excessive width - 0.2". I am amazed at the variety of sizes of
                          slots out there, but at least the pin on my machine seems to match the
                          spec. The only slight remaining worry is that I can see an impression
                          of the pin in the far end of the slot where it radius's out. This
                          suggests that the pin is bottoming out there which could prevent the
                          tapers mating properly. I'll have another go at scraping away at that
                          radius.

                          Mark

                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "leasingham_connelly"
                          <martin.connelly@s...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, G W Howe <ghowe@m...> wrote:
                          > > In message <d2ucpp+p6cl@e...>, n5kzw <n5kzw@a...> writes
                          > > > There may be a spec
                          > > Try this link which gives the spec
                          > > http://www.loganact.com/tips/r8.htm
                          > > the groove for the pin is 0.156" wide x 0.093" deep.
                          > > --
                          > > Graham Howe mail: (ghowe@m...)
                          > > http://www.homepages.mcb.net/howe/
                          >
                          > I measured a new R8 collet and found that the width of the keyway
                          > matches 0.156" but that it was much shallower at 0.060".
                          >
                          > Martin
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