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spline wrench?

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  • Jerry
    Yesterday I discovered the wisdom of having a really tight draw bar to suck up a collet and end mill into the quill. I was milling and discovered the end mill
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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      Yesterday I discovered the wisdom of having a really tight draw bar
      to suck up a collet and end mill into the quill. I was milling and
      discovered the end mill was creeping out of the collet as I made my
      pass on the work piece. Lesson learned. I had been tightening the
      drawbar by squeezing friction on the belts as I tighten the nut on
      the bar. Then I recalled someone here had made a spline wrench out of
      something by welding a handle onto an automotive something or other.
      Does this ring a bell? I sure could use something.

      Jerry
    • cmiller231@aol.com
      In a message dated 10/1/2004 8:45:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, renaissanceman04002@yahoo.com writes: drawbar by squeezing friction on the belts as I tighten
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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        In a message dated 10/1/2004 8:45:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, renaissanceman04002@... writes:
        drawbar by squeezing friction on the belts as I tighten the nut on
        the bar. Then I recalled someone here had made a spline wrench out of
        something by welding a handle onto an automotive something or other.
        Does this ring a bell? I sure could use something.

        Jerry
         
         
         Jerry . iirc somebody  posted a message about useing a splined pto  hub  from a tractor, i think . I just looked at my mill drill and those pto hubs are too large unless they make them smaller . Also there is not enough spline projecting  above the nut ( that holds the plley on ) to engage even if the hub was the right size .   Chris  
      • Ed Smith
        This incident just reinforces the need to use an end mill holder w/ a set screw. Collets are great for what they are intended for, but not for holding end
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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          This incident just reinforces the need to use an end mill holder w/ a set
          screw. Collets are great for what they are intended for, but not for
          holding end mills. There should be no reason for having to apply massive
          amounts of torque to the drawbar if proper tooling setups are used.

          At 08:43 AM 10/1/2004, you wrote:
          >Yesterday I discovered the wisdom of having a really tight draw bar
          >to suck up a collet and end mill into the quill. I was milling and
          >discovered the end mill was creeping out of the collet as I made my
          >pass on the work piece. Lesson learned. I had been tightening the
          >drawbar by squeezing friction on the belts as I tighten the nut on
          >the bar. Then I recalled someone here had made a spline wrench out of
          >something by welding a handle onto an automotive something or other.
          >Does this ring a bell? I sure could use something.
          >
          >Jerry
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          L. Edward Smith
          Boones Mill, VA 24065

          lesmith@... (preferred)
          lesmith_52@...
          lesmith218@...
        • transdoctor3@aol.com
          You need a PTO yoke,to do this or a broach to make one Rick C.
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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            You need a PTO yoke,to do this or a broach to make one
            Rick C.
          • ppump11578@aol.com
            Do your end mills not have a thread on the top end which screws inot your collet which you ensure contacts the inside of the holder before finally tightening
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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              Do your end mills not have a thread on the top end which screws inot your collet which you ensure contacts the inside of the holder before finally tightening it up?
              regards
              pp
            • cmiller231@aol.com
              In a message dated 10/1/2004 9:37:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, lesmith@roanokeinternet.com writes: This incident just reinforces the need to use an end mill
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                In a message dated 10/1/2004 9:37:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, lesmith@... writes:
                This incident just reinforces the need to use an end mill holder w/ a set
                screw.  Collets are great for what they are intended for, but not for
                holding end mills.  There should be no reason for having to apply massive
                amounts of torque to the drawbar if proper tooling setups are used.
                What are collets on a mill drill intended for ??  Thanks Chris
              • Jerry Kimberlin
                ... I wish someone would answer this with facts rather than imagination. I only use end-mill holders on a mill drill. I see no need for collets at all -
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                  cmiller231@... wrote:

                  > What are collets on a mill drill intended for ?? Thanks Chris

                  I wish someone would answer this with facts rather than imagination. I
                  only use end-mill holders on a mill drill. I see no need for collets at
                  all - waste of money.

                  JerryK
                • john labutski
                  I suggest you make a strap wrench out of a piece of cog belt. Making a wrench out of metal will tear up your gearbox if you have a metal wrench and apply
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                    I suggest you make a strap wrench out of  a piece of cog belt.  Making a wrench out of metal will tear up your gearbox if you have a metal wrench and apply power. Or worse yet kill you. Its simple to take a very short piece of cog belt insert an aluminum shear pin in the handle for safety purposes. I have been using a sewing machine cog belt and a standard household strap wrench handle for 5 months and it works great.  MIll drill drawbars are of fairly soft metal.  A metal wrench will cause you to eventually pop the draw bar.
                     
                    John Ocala Florida
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jerry
                    Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 8:43 AM
                    Subject: [mill_drill] spline wrench?

                    Yesterday I discovered the wisdom of having a really tight draw bar
                    to suck up a collet and end mill into the quill. I was milling and
                    discovered the end mill was creeping out of the collet as I made my
                    pass on the work piece. Lesson learned. I had been tightening the
                    drawbar by squeezing friction on the belts as I tighten the nut on
                    the bar. Then I recalled someone here had made a spline wrench out of
                    something by welding a handle onto an automotive something or other.
                    Does this ring a bell? I sure could use something.

                    Jerry


                  • Jerry
                    ... a set ... for ... massive ... Well, you re probably right; but my M/D arrived with a whole set of R8 collets and end mills so I have to use what I have on
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Ed Smith <lesmith@r...> wrote:
                      > This incident just reinforces the need to use an end mill holder w/
                      a set
                      > screw. Collets are great for what they are intended for, but not
                      for
                      > holding end mills. There should be no reason for having to apply
                      massive
                      > amounts of torque to the drawbar if proper tooling setups are used.
                      >


                      Well, you're probably right; but my M/D arrived with a whole set of
                      R8 collets and end mills so I have to use what I have on hand. I'll
                      look into the end mill holder thing - but won't I need a set of those
                      too - one for each size end mill I have (can you tell I'm a rookie
                      here) or one R8 holder and a new set of end mills with one size shaft?

                      ...and, my spline sticks up about 1 1/2" above the large nut holding
                      the stack of pullys.
                    • Matt Bushore
                      I have a picture of the wrench I made for my RF-31 http://aukcycles.com/gallery look through the shop pictures. I used a PTO spline from a farm store. I think
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                        I have a picture of the wrench I made for my RF-31

                        http://aukcycles.com/gallery

                        look through the shop pictures.

                        I used a PTO spline from a farm store.

                        I think it's a 1 1/8" spline. Just measure across the OD of the splines.
                        It will be a slightly loose fit, but it works very well.


                        Look through the message archives, I'm sure there is more info in here.

                        drop me a note if you have further questions

                        matt
                      • mertbaker
                        Dunno, I have collets to hold endmill sin my Clausing & never have workout problems. There IS a spindle lock lever to use when tightening the drawbar, tho ;
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                          Dunno, I have collets to hold endmill sin my Clausing & never have workout
                          problems. There IS a spindle lock lever to use when tightening the drawbar,
                          tho' ; no wrench, just a 4" handwheel on the bar.
                          Mert

                          MertBaker@...
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Jerry Kimberlin" <kimberln@...>
                          To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:53 AM
                          Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?


                          > cmiller231@... wrote:
                          >
                          > > What are collets on a mill drill intended for ?? Thanks Chris
                          >
                          > I wish someone would answer this with facts rather than imagination. I
                          > only use end-mill holders on a mill drill. I see no need for collets at
                          > all - waste of money.
                          >
                          > JerryK
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • jim davies
                          Maybe I m missing something here, but the double nut arrangement on my drawbar makes it very easy to tighten, with two wrenches. drawbar by squeezing friction
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                            Maybe I'm missing something here, but the double nut arrangement  on my
                            drawbar makes it very easy to tighten, with two wrenches.
                            drawbar by squeezing friction on the belts as I tighten the nut on
                            the bar. Then I recalled someone here had made a spline wrench out of
                            something by welding a handle onto an automotive something or other.
                            Does this ring a bell? I sure could use something.

                          • Tom
                            I m getting a new small mill and there will be many times that there will be little room for an endmill holder or so I m told.I realize that a holder is the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                              I'm getting a new small mill and there will be many times that there will be little room for an endmill holder or so I'm told.I realize that a holder is the "right"way but it's not always going to work.Now I'm in the position of deciding whether or not to spend the extra $50 for a couple of holders or just run with collets all the time.Most of my endmills are 3/8" so I guess I should get at least that one.Can anyone tell me just how much a holder does extend below the spindle?Maybe I'm worried about nothing<g>Thanks
                              Tom Munroe
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: mertbaker
                              Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:56 AM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?

                              Dunno,  I have collets to hold endmill sin my Clausing & never have workout
                              problems.  There IS a spindle lock lever to use when tightening the drawbar,
                              tho' ; no wrench, just a 4" handwheel on the bar.
                              Mert

                              MertBaker@...
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Jerry Kimberlin" <kimberln@...>
                              To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:53 AM
                              Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?


                              > cmiller231@... wrote:
                              >
                              > > What are collets on a mill drill intended for ??  Thanks Chris
                              >
                              > I wish someone would answer this with facts rather than imagination.  I
                              > only use end-mill holders on a mill drill.  I see no need for collets at
                              > all - waste of money.
                              >
                              > JerryK
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                            • mertbaker
                              Snug the collets up well & you should have no problems. If you do, just slack off on the feed some. Hobbyists do not have to meet C&T schedules. Mert
                              Message 14 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                Snug the collets up well & you should have no problems. If you do, just
                                slack off on the feed some. Hobbyists do not have to meet C&T schedules.
                                Mert

                                MertBaker@...
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Tom" <ORIONLX200@...>
                                To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 12:20 PM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?


                                I'm getting a new small mill and there will be many times that there will be
                                little room for an endmill holder or so I'm told.I realize that a holder is
                                the "right"way but it's not always going to work.Now I'm in the position of
                                deciding whether or not to spend the extra $50 for a couple of holders or
                                just run with collets all the time.Most of my endmills are 3/8" so I guess I
                                should get at least that one.Can anyone tell me just how much a holder does
                                extend below the spindle?Maybe I'm worried about nothing<g>Thanks
                                Tom Munroe
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: mertbaker
                                To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:56 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?


                                Dunno, I have collets to hold endmill sin my Clausing & never have
                                workout
                                problems. There IS a spindle lock lever to use when tightening the
                                drawbar,
                                tho' ; no wrench, just a 4" handwheel on the bar.
                                Mert

                                MertBaker@...
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Jerry Kimberlin" <kimberln@...>
                                To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:53 AM
                                Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?


                                > cmiller231@... wrote:
                                >
                                > > What are collets on a mill drill intended for ?? Thanks Chris
                                >
                                > I wish someone would answer this with facts rather than imagination. I
                                > only use end-mill holders on a mill drill. I see no need for collets at
                                > all - waste of money.
                                >
                                > JerryK
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


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                              • Jerry Kimberlin
                                ... That distance varies with the size of the end mill. On R-8 end mill holders, the one for 3/16 extends 1 7/8 , the one for 3/8 extends 2 1/8 , the one
                                Message 15 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                  Tom wrote:

                                  > I'm getting a new small mill and there will be many times that there
                                  > will be little room for an endmill holder or so I'm told.I realize
                                  > that a holder is the "right"way but it's not always going to work.Now
                                  > I'm in the position of deciding whether or not to spend the extra $50
                                  > for a couple of holders or just run with collets all the time.Most of
                                  > my endmills are 3/8" so I guess I should get at least that one.Can
                                  > anyone tell me just how much a holder does extend below the spindle?

                                  That distance varies with the size of the end mill. On R-8 end mill
                                  holders, the one for 3/16 extends 1 7/8", the one for 3/8" extends 2
                                  1/8", the one for 1/2" extends 2 1/4" . A 1/2" drill chuck extends a
                                  lot further than that. I have a keyless 1/4" chuck on an R-8 shank
                                  that extends about 3 1/4". That plus a 1/4" jobbers drill, a vise, and
                                  a workpiece leaves very little space, if any, on a small mill/drill.
                                  These dimensions are for my RF-45 clone and the amount the R-8 shank
                                  will seat into the spindle may vary by a few thousands, depending on
                                  brand of mill and brand of R-8 shank.

                                  JerryK
                                • rgsparber@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 10/1/2004 9:33:01 AM US Mountain Standard Time, MertBaker@prodigy.net writes: Snug the collets up well & you should have no problems. Do
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                    In a message dated 10/1/2004 9:33:01 AM US Mountain Standard Time, MertBaker@... writes:
                                    Snug the collets up well & you should have no problems. 
                                    Do be sure to clean the inside of the collet and the shank of the cutter with alcohol to remove any oils. You need clean metal to metal contact to get a firm grip.
                                     
                                    Rick Sparber

                                    rgsparber@...

                                    My Web Site:
                                    rgsparber.fifthprime.com
                                  • Jerry
                                    ... cutter ... contact to get a ... I learned that the hard way - that one issue was probably the culprit in the mill creeping out of the collet. Jerry
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                      --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, rgsparber@a... wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > In a message dated 10/1/2004 9:33:01 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
                                      > MertBaker@p... writes:
                                      >
                                      > Snug the collets up well & you should have no problems.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Do be sure to clean the inside of the collet and the shank of the
                                      cutter
                                      > with alcohol to remove any oils. You need clean metal to metal
                                      contact to get a
                                      > firm grip.
                                      >
                                      > Rick Sparber

                                      I learned that the hard way - that one issue was probably the culprit
                                      in the mill creeping out of the collet.

                                      Jerry
                                    • Ed Smith
                                      Well, as for collets, the only time I ve ever used them was for holding work in a lathe for repetitive cuts on several parts I was making. The end mill
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                        Well, as for collets, the only time I've ever used them was for holding
                                        work in a lathe for repetitive cuts on several parts I was making. The end
                                        mill holders I have gotten from HF for around $10-$15 each. Runout was
                                        good on all of them. The end mills I use are from a vendor on eBay (can't
                                        seem to find his name at the moment) and for almost all my work I use only
                                        these cutters. If I'm doing large work (surfacing a part) I have a cutter
                                        with a built in R8 shank and TNMG replacable cutter tips than wasn't bad at
                                        all price wise. If I remember right I caught it on sale at Enco. It's 2"
                                        diam.

                                        At 10:57 AM 10/1/2004, you wrote:


                                        >Well, you're probably right; but my M/D arrived with a whole set of
                                        >R8 collets and end mills so I have to use what I have on hand. I'll
                                        >look into the end mill holder thing - but won't I need a set of those
                                        >too - one for each size end mill I have (can you tell I'm a rookie
                                        >here) or one R8 holder and a new set of end mills with one size shaft?
                                        >
                                        >...and, my spline sticks up about 1 1/2" above the large nut holding
                                        >the stack of pullys.
                                        >
                                        >

                                        L. Edward Smith
                                        Boones Mill, VA 24065

                                        lesmith@... (preferred)
                                        lesmith_52@...
                                        lesmith218@...
                                      • Jerry
                                        all throughout the classroom training I ve had (adult Ed night course at the local VOTec) we always used an end mill in a collett in mills (except for fly
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                          all throughout the classroom training I've had (adult Ed night course
                                          at the local VOTec) we always used an end mill in a collett in mills
                                          (except for fly cutting and/or boring) so when I acquired my Enco at
                                          auction and it came with all the end mills and collets + tooling I
                                          thought nothing of it and just proceeded making swarf as soon as I
                                          got set up here in Colorado. I didn't take the time to carefully wipe
                                          off the mills of oil befor I plugged them into the collet and chucked
                                          it up in the mill. My error - lesson learned.

                                          Jerry


                                          --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, Ed Smith <lesmith@r...> wrote:
                                          > Well, as for collets, the only time I've ever used them was for
                                          holding
                                          > work in a lathe for repetitive cuts on several parts I was making.
                                          The end
                                          > mill holders I have gotten from HF for around $10-$15 each. Runout
                                          was
                                          > good on all of them. The end mills I use are from a vendor on eBay
                                          (can't
                                          > seem to find his name at the moment) and for almost all my work I
                                          use only
                                          > these cutters. If I'm doing large work (surfacing a part) I have a
                                          cutter
                                          > with a built in R8 shank and TNMG replacable cutter tips than
                                          wasn't bad at
                                          > all price wise. If I remember right I caught it on sale at Enco.
                                          It's 2"
                                          > diam.
                                          >
                                          > At 10:57 AM 10/1/2004, you wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >Well, you're probably right; but my M/D arrived with a whole set of
                                          > >R8 collets and end mills so I have to use what I have on hand. I'll
                                          > >look into the end mill holder thing - but won't I need a set of
                                          those
                                          > >too - one for each size end mill I have (can you tell I'm a rookie
                                          > >here) or one R8 holder and a new set of end mills with one size
                                          shaft?
                                          > >
                                          > >...and, my spline sticks up about 1 1/2" above the large nut
                                          holding
                                          > >the stack of pullys.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > L. Edward Smith
                                          > Boones Mill, VA 24065
                                          >
                                          > lesmith@r... (preferred)
                                          > lesmith_52@h...
                                          > lesmith218@y...
                                        • Tom
                                          Thanks for the info Jerry.I was afraid of what the numbers were going to be.I ll just have to get by with using collets for my endmills for now. Tom Munroe
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Oct 1, 2004
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                                            Thanks for the info Jerry.I was afraid of what the numbers were going to be.I'll just have to get by with using collets for my endmills for now.
                                            Tom Munroe
                                            That distance varies with the size of the end mill.  On R-8 end mill
                                            holders, the one for 3/16 extends 1 7/8", the one for 3/8" extends 2
                                            1/8",  the one for 1/2" extends 2 1/4" .  A 1/2" drill chuck extends a
                                            lot further than that.   I have a keyless 1/4" chuck on an R-8 shank
                                            that extends about 3 1/4".  That plus a 1/4" jobbers drill, a vise, and
                                            a workpiece leaves very little space, if any, on a small mill/drill. 
                                            These dimensions are for my RF-45 clone and the amount the R-8 shank
                                            will seat into the spindle may vary by a few thousands, depending on
                                            brand of mill and brand of R-8 shank.

                                            JerryK


                                          • n5kzw
                                            Before I got my knee mill, I tried to do dome machining on my Atlas/Carftsman 6x18 lathe. IIR I got the end mills, endmill holder, and drawbar set from
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Oct 2, 2004
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                                              Before I got my knee mill, I tried to do dome machining on my
                                              Atlas/Carftsman 6x18 lathe. IIR I got the end mills, endmill holder,
                                              and drawbar set from Blueridge Machinery. The endmill holder was
                                              sized to accept 1/2" end milld with a set screw to hold them tight.
                                              To accept smaller end mills, it came with sleeves that had cutouts to
                                              pass the set screw in the main holder.

                                              I sold the milling adapter after I got the Grizzly knee mill, but I
                                              kept the end mill sleeves. I have only a 1/2" R-8 end mill holder for
                                              the mill and use the sleeves for all smaller end mills. I do
                                              occasionally use collets for larger end mills, but those are usually
                                              only used when lightly milling the sides of a part, not when trying to
                                              mill to a critical depth.

                                              I think the sleeves would be relatively easy to make on a lathe.

                                              Ed Bailen

                                              --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <ORIONLX200@a...> wrote:
                                              > I'm getting a new small mill and there will be many times that there
                                              will be little room for an endmill holder or so I'm told.I realize
                                              that a holder is the "right"way but it's not always going to work.Now
                                              I'm in the position of deciding whether or not to spend the extra $50
                                              for a couple of holders or just run with collets all the time.Most of
                                              my endmills are 3/8" so I guess I should get at least that one.Can
                                              anyone tell me just how much a holder does extend below the
                                              spindle?Maybe I'm worried about nothing<g>Thanks
                                              > Tom Munroe
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: mertbaker
                                              > To: mill_drill@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:56 AM
                                              > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Dunno, I have collets to hold endmill sin my Clausing & never
                                              have workout
                                              > problems. There IS a spindle lock lever to use when tightening
                                              the drawbar,
                                              > tho' ; no wrench, just a 4" handwheel on the bar.
                                              > Mert
                                              >
                                              > MertBaker@v...
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "Jerry Kimberlin" <kimberln@c...>
                                              > To: <mill_drill@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:53 AM
                                              > Subject: Re: [mill_drill] spline wrench?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > cmiller231@a... wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > > What are collets on a mill drill intended for ?? Thanks Chris
                                              > >
                                              > > I wish someone would answer this with facts rather than
                                              imagination. I
                                              > > only use end-mill holders on a mill drill. I see no need for
                                              collets at
                                              > > all - waste of money.
                                              > >
                                              > > JerryK
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                              > >
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                                              > >
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                                            • nowdkyle
                                              Jerry, I use a strap wrench. It is simple and was on sale at HF (set of 2, a large and a small one) for 3 or 4 dollars. Works well for me. The collets will
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Oct 4, 2004
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                                                Jerry,
                                                I use a strap wrench. It is simple and was on sale at HF (set of 2,
                                                a large and a small one) for 3 or 4 dollars. Works well for me. The
                                                collets will work if cinched up this way and cuts kept light, but
                                                watch out for chatter. Yes, I agree, end mill holders are preferred.

                                                Regards,
                                                Dick K.

                                                --- In mill_drill@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry"
                                                <renaissanceman04002@y...> wrote:
                                                > Yesterday I discovered the wisdom of having a really tight draw
                                                bar
                                                > to suck up a collet and end mill into the quill. I was milling and
                                                > discovered the end mill was creeping out of the collet as I made
                                                my
                                                > pass on the work piece. Lesson learned. I had been tightening the
                                                > drawbar by squeezing friction on the belts as I tighten the nut on
                                                > the bar. Then I recalled someone here had made a spline wrench out
                                                of
                                                > something by welding a handle onto an automotive something or
                                                other.
                                                > Does this ring a bell? I sure could use something.
                                                >
                                                > Jerry
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