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RE: [milgenire] James LYNCH,

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  • John Doyle
    If James and his brother were together in a battle/skirmish at the time of the brothers death, the chances are that they were in the same section or platoon -
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 12, 2008

      If James and his brother were together in a battle/skirmish at the time of the brothers death, the chances are that they were in the same section or platoon – the chances of finding a brother, friend or neighbour etc from a different unit in the heat of battle and then providing some degree of protection would be pretty slim.

       

      The starting point should therefore be the name of the brother to check the CWGC database and then Ancestry/National Archives for further information (if it’s available). You may then find out where the brother is commemorated via

       

      http://www.irishwarmemorials.ie/

       

       

      Do you have the name of the brother?

       

      Are you able to scan in the photo to see if there are any distinguishing items/badges?

       

      John



      --- On Mon, 8/11/08, Nathalie Manakers-Lynch <natbarlynch@ yahoo.com> wrote:

      From: Nathalie Manakers-Lynch <natbarlynch@ yahoo.com>
      Subject: [milgenire] James LYNCH,
      To: milgenire@yahoogrou ps.com
      Received: Monday, August 11, 2008, 7:09 AM

      Hello to all,

      I am posting this message hoping one of you might be able to help.
      My husband ' s grand-father, James LYNCH, born ca 1893, possibly in
      co.Meath, son of James LYNCH also, mother unknown, was married to
      Elisabeth FARRISSEY (FARRESSY), daughter of Robert FARRISSEY and
      Bridget CARROLL;
      They lived in Crosshaven, co.Cork and also in Upper Fountainstown .
      James LYNCH served at one point in what looks like the british army
      (according to the photo of the uniform), around the start of the WWI.
      I didn ' t succeed in finding anything about him so far, either in
      Athboy, co.Meath, through the census return forms or the army forms,
      I can ' t go to London in Kew but maybe some of you might be of some
      help on the matter and give me a few ideas.
      James must have been staying in around Crosshaven area but I am unable
      to find out what regiment he served in. He is supposed to have been
      gone to France or Belgium where his brother died of wounds being fired
      at by the Germans and his brother ' s body protecting James ....
      Thanks by advance for all your comments,
      Yours sincerely,

      Nathalie Lynch, Belgium

      .

       

       


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    • John Doyle
      Not a relative, but the following appeared in one of the Irish Genealogy lists last month re CSM Martin Doyle VC, MM Interesting to me in that here s a man who
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 12, 2008

        Not a relative, but the following appeared in one of the Irish Genealogy lists last month re CSM Martin Doyle VC, MM

         

        Interesting to me in that here’s a man who joined an Irish Regt pre WW1, served through WW1 with distinction, joined the IRA during the War of Independence, the Free State Army during the Civil War and then served post war in the formative years of the new state.

         

        It would be interesting to know what made him switch from the British Army to the IRA.

         

        A picture of CSM Doyle is online at :

         

        http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=7746082

         

        John

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

        Martin DOYLE, an Irish soldier who won the Victoria Cross, the
        highest British award for gallantry in battle, is unlikely to be remembered
        with total pride in British military annuals. After returning home a hero
        from the Great War in France , where he also won the Military Medal, he threw
        in his lot with the national struggle for freedom in 1920 and spent the next
        few years fighting the Crown forces in Ireland . With the ending of the War
        of Independence he signed up with the new Free State army and saw more
        action in the Civil war that followed the treaty. When peace came again he
        continued to serve in the Irish army, ending his career in Dublin ' s McKee
        Barracks in 1937.

        Per article by Hilary MURPHY (with photo of Martin DOYLE w/ King George V
        and Queen Mary at Buckingham Palace) in the 1994 #4 issue of "Irish Roots"
        magazine published in Cork, the man with this distinguished and chequered
        military career was born in Gusserane, in the New Ross District of Co.
        Wexford. His father, Larry DOYLE, worked on the land to make a modest
        living. When Martin was a boy the family moved into New Ross town. After
        leaving school, he worked with a local farmer, but on St. Stephen ' s Day 1909
        he went to Kilkenny and joined the 18th Royal Irish Regiment largely
        recruited from Cos. Kilkenny, Wexford, Waterford and Tipperary - claiming to
        be 17 though two years younger. Showing a propensity for soldiering, after
        an initial stint of home service he was drafted to India where he advanced
        himself, attending night classes and courses whenever possible. Good at
        sports, he became the Regimental novice lightweight champion in 1913.

        At the outbreak of war in 1914 DOYLE was called home with his regiment. In
        December (now serving with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers), he was posted in
        France and was soon in the thick of the fighting. His leadership was soon
        recognised and he was promoted to Sergeant in 1915. He was one of the lucky
        ones to survive the slaughter at Mons . Martin rose though the ranks to
        Company Sergeant-Major, and transferred to the 1st Battalion, Royal Munster
        Fusiliers CSM DOYLE won his first medal for bravery, the Military Medal, 24
        March 1918, while serving at Hattenfield in France .

        His unit was in reserve when the front-line troops were driven back by the
        Germans. Called in to restore the situation, the Munsters recaptured
        Hattenfield and then advanced towards the trenches outside the town.
        Skirmishing with the enemy they soon came under sustained, deadly
        machine-gun fire from a derelict barn situated in a ' no-man ' s-land ' between
        them and the Germans, a mere 40 yards away. Calling for volunteers, DOYLE
        led a bayonet charge on the barn. Reaching it alone, he routed the Germans,
        seized the machine-gun and took possession of the barn. Some time later he
        was captured by the enemy - although roughly treated, he was released by a
        successful counter-attack by his regiment.

        The Wexford soldier was to display even greater bravery six months later.
        Near Riencourt on 2 Sept. 1918, he became a select band of Irishmen (29 in
        the course of WWI) to merit the Victoria cross for ' conspicuous bravery. '
        The official announcement: ' When command of the company devolved upon him
        consequent upon officer casualties, and observing that some of his men were
        surrounded the enemy, he led a party to their assistance, and by skilled
        leadership worked his way along the trenches, killed several of the enemy
        and extricated the party and carried back, under heavy fire, a wounded
        officer to a place of safey. Later seeing a tank in difficulties, he rushed
        forward again under intense fire, routed the German troops, who were
        attempting to commandeer it, and prevented the advance of another German
        party. A German machine gun now opened fire on the tank at close range,
        rendering it impossible to get the wounded away, whereupon DOYLE, with great
        gallantry, rushed forward, and single-handed silenced the machine gun,
        capturing it with three prisoners. He then carried a wounded man to safety
        under very heavy fire. Later in the day when the enemy counterattacked his
        position, he showed great power of command, driving back the enemy and
        capturing many prisoners. Throughout the whole of these operations, DOYLE
        set the very highest example to all ranks by his courage and total disregard
        of danger. '

        After the war ended, Martin DOYLE was welcomed on his arrival in his home
        town of New Ross in March 1919. His proud parents and a large crowd of
        soldiers, townspeople greeted him at the railway station: The local
        newspaper reported - ' The meeting between the young hero and his aged
        parents was very touching: going straight to his mother and father he
        embraced them. He was escorted to his home in Mary Street amidst a scene of
        great enthusiasm. As they approached the Royal Hotel a trumpeter standing on
        the steps sounded a stirring bugle call which evoked ringing cheers. There
        was a profusion of decorations in the town along with scrolls bearing words
        of welcome to the New Ross hero. '

        Then came the day when Martin went to Buckingham Palace in London to be
        decorated with the Victoria Cross and Military Medal by King George V. He
        was the only Irishman among the five recipients of the VC that day, together
        with two Englishmen and two Scotsmen. A bright future lay ahead of him in
        the British army with the promise of a commission but the Wexford man had
        very different ideas that would have been anathema to the King and his
        military authorities. He retired from the British army in July 1919 and
        joined the IRA when the Irish War of Independence was at its height. He
        became an intelligence officer in the Mid-Clare Brigade, and was active
        throughout 1920 and 1921 in Ennis. On at least one occasion he was under
        such suspicion that he considered taking to the hills with his rifle. On
        another occasion he went to Kilrush on a mission and, due to faulty
        information, he almost fell into a trap. During the Civil War he served with
        the Free State Army in Waterford , Kilkenny and South Tipperary . He was
        wounded in the left arm in Limerick in early 1923. After the Civil War ended
        he was posted back to his home town of New Ross for a spell. When he retired
        from the Irish army in 1937, now married with three daughters, he took up
        pensionable employment in the Guinness Brewery as a security officer. The
        army authorities were very reluctant to let him go. He was described as ' an
        excellent NCO, a very good Vickers machine gun and rifle instructor, and
        someone who could not be replaced without serious inconvenience to the
        service. ' Not totally severing his army links, he spent a further year and a
        half in the 2nd Batallion Regiment of Dublin Army Reserve. Having spent 9
        years 5 months in the British army service, 2 years in the Old IRA, 15 years
        5 months in the regular Irish army, he hung up his uniform on 25 Jan 1939,
        just as new war clouds were threatening. Sadly, he was not destined to enjoy
        his hard-earned retirement. Stricken with polio, he died 20 Nov 1940, in Sir
        Patrick Dun ' s Hospital, Dublin , at 46. This great but little remembered
        Irish soldier rests in peace in Grangegorman British military burial place,
        off Blackhorse Ave., near McKee Barracks, Dublin, under a headstone erected
        by his old comrades in the regiment.

         


      • John Doyle
        A website worth a quick visit is the British Pathe News site at : http://www.britishpathe.com/ Searching for Irish Army, IRA, Free State Army, Saorstat etc
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 12, 2008

          A website worth a quick visit is the British Pathe News site at :

           

          http://www.britishpathe.com/

           

          Searching for Irish Army, IRA, Free State Army, Saorstat etc brings up some old clips from the fledgling Free State including some images of the army in the German coalscuttle style helmets in use from 1927.

           

          While downloading the video clips at high quality is expensive, stills can be viewed for free. A low quality version of the videos can be downloaded but these require personal details to be entered.

           

          Enjoy.

           

          John

           

           

        • Denis Grant
          This is indeed an interesting question.  As we know, large numbers of Irish enlisted.  I have come across the the suggestion that the subsequent shift of
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 17, 2008
            This is indeed an interesting question.  As we know, large numbers of Irish enlisted.  I have come across the the suggestion that the subsequent shift of allegiance to the  Republican cause was not unconnected with disillusionment over the failure to deliver what they believed to have been promised - Home Rule.  And this moreso since the War had been partly sold as one in defence of threatened small nations - "plucky little Belgium" &c.  I suspect that there were many such.
             
            "The Easter Rising and the War of independence which followed pushed the story of the Irish who fought in WW1 into the background. Most Irishmen came back from the war disillusioned and wondering what they had been fighting for. Circumstances at home dictated they could take no pride in the role they played in WW1 fighting in the British Army. Indeed in the following War of Independence 1919-1921 some of the most effective IRA fighters were ex-British servicemen (most notably Tom Barry...
             
             
            Without wishing to detract from all the others, of particular note are those like Martin Doyle VC who were decorated.  I know of one other Volunteer who was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal during WW1.
             
            There's probably some published research - perhaps something in The Sword.
             
            Regards,
             
            Donnacha

            --- On Tue, 8/12/08, John Doyle <john.doyle670@...> wrote:
            From: John Doyle <john.doyle670@...>
            Subject: [milgenire] Martin Doyle VC, MM
            To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
            Received: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 4:48 AM
            <snip>

            Interesting to me in that here’s a man who joined an Irish Regt pre WW1, served through WW1 with distinction, joined the IRA during the War of Independence, the Free State Army during the Civil War and then served post war in the formative years of the new state.

             

            It would be interesting to know what made him switch from the British Army to the IRA.

             

            John

             

            .



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