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RE: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

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  • lruddick
    Hec: If you can prevail upon someone in England to go to the National Archives those documents that I provided you a list of should contain his court martial
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
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      Hec:

       

      If you can prevail upon someone in England to go to the National Archives those documents that I provided you a list of should contain his court martial record and your answers except for the marriage information.

       

      Members of my extended family helped to found Ballarat west of you.

       

      Lewis

       

      From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
      Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 8:38 PM
      To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

       




      Gidday Lewis,

       

      You are correct that I am from  Australia, from a town called Wallan, Victoria.

       

      I have exhausted all the Aus database and groups to find my William in Australia, plus several overseas!

       

      I am trying to prove two things:

      1. Find some documents to prove the William of the “Morley” ship is the person that married Catherine McNamara in Sydney, 9/11/1837

      2. To locate the ancestors of William of “Morley”. By achieving this I may also get to resolve the first point.

       

      I am leaning toward they are one and the same person, both born in Staffordshire around 1802, Cannot find another W. Alcock arriving in Aust around that time either as a convict or a free settler.

       

      The history of the 4th was most interesting, It would appear they were in India (Kirkee) in 1827, so he may have been with another regiment

       

      Thanks for your replies

       

      Hec

       

       

       


      From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lruddick
      Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:04 AM
      To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

       

       

      Hec:

      I see from the internet that you are from "down under". When I visited
      Australia I found your computerized records in your libraries very good for
      anyone who had arrived as a result of transportation unlike those who went
      there as immigrants. These were libraries in Hobart and Melbourne.

      Lewis

      -----Original Message-----
      From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Hec
      Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 3:43 PM
      To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

      Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was
      sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence
      was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia.
      He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about
      1802

      I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot
      find any link to him in this unit.

      I have no other information.

      Is there information on the court martial?
      Was he a British or Irish soldier?
      Did he live in Ireland?

      Any help would be most appreciated
      Cheers
      Hec Alcock

      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links




    • Donnacha
      Hello, This is likely to be your man located in Army Deserters 1828-1840 on Findmypast
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
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        Hello,
        This is likely to be your man located in Army Deserters 1828-1840 on Findmypast


        FMP is a pay service but using the option to purchase small blocks of credits cost can be kept quite low.

        Findmypast.co.uk registers of convicts in prison hulks 1818-1831 (ADM6), after-trial calendars of prisoners 1855-1931 (CRIM 9) are other items that may well be your man, possibly relating to the time between the Court Martial finding and transportation.


        As to the other parts of your question the first thing to bear in mind is that by the Act of Union of 1801 establishing the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland the question of whether he was a British or Irish soldier is redundant. There is a single British Army of which he would have been a member. Furthermore, to be stationed in Ireland in this period is no different than being stationed at any of the other barracks/stations in the United Kingdom.

        I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if he lived in Ireland. He will have of course during the time he was stationed there.

        Regards,

        Donnacha

        From: Hec <heca@...>
        To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 6:42:57 PM
        Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

         
        Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia. He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

        I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

        I have no other information.

        Is there information on the court martial?
        Was he a British or Irish soldier?
        Did he live in Ireland?

        Any help would be most appreciated
        Cheers
        Hec Alcock



      • Donnacha
        Incidentally, on what basis do you infer a 4th Light Dragoons connection? Was this your man s regiment and what evidence do you have for this inference? You
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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          Incidentally, on what basis do you infer a 4th Light Dragoons connection? Was this your man's regiment and what evidence do you have for this inference?

          You must also have evidence of the location of the Court Martial. Is there unequivocal evidence of this?

          Regards,

          Donnacha


          From: Hec <heca@...>
          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 6:42:57 PM
          Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

           
          Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia. He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

          I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

          I have no other information.

          Is there information on the court martial?
          Was he a British or Irish soldier?
          Did he live in Ireland?

          Any help would be most appreciated
          Cheers
          Hec Alcock



        • Margaret Doyle
          You could check failteromhat for info. Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that s a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch .
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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            You could check failteromhat for info.
            Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
            Maggie the Dub

            Sent from my iPhone
          • Hec Alcock
            Hello Donnacha Thank you for you reply, I did check with FMP a few weeks back and I think the person you have found was tried in 1831, (The Morley arrived in
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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              Hello Donnacha

               

              Thank you for you reply,

               

              I did check with FMP a few weeks back and I think the person you have found was tried in 1831, (The Morley arrived in Sydney Cove 3/3/1828) but I will get back to the library and check out the link.

               

              Am learning a lot on English history. Probably back in the 50s I would have been taught about the Union of 1801 but that was a long time ago!  Am grateful for the information. I was thinking that the two armies were different, and William may have been reared in Ireland and therefore not the William I was after.

               

              Will also check out the court martials you mentioned tomorrow.

               

              Regards your second memo. Someone from another group suggested he may be with the 4th Light Dragoons. I did not state he was in this unit but it was a possibility.

               

              The evidence that there was a court martial comes from his Certificate of Freedom Certificate that states

               

              Certificate of Freedom.

              Vessel - Morley

              landed Sydney Cove: 3/3/1828

              CF no: 34/0954

              Native Place: Staffordshire

              Offence: Desertion

              Place of Trial: Newbridge Co Kildare by Court  Martial

              Date of Trial: 23/7/1827

              Sentence: 7 years

              Year of Birth: 1802

              Dated: 30/7/1834

              Item: 4/4323, Reel:993

               

              My thanks for your assistance and information

              Hec


            • Mal McKee
              Hi Hec, Just to answer your question on whether he was British or Irish.. he would have potentially been both. Everyone in Ireland at that point was both
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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                Hi Hec,

                Just to answer your question on whether he was British or Irish.. he would have potentially been both. Everyone in Ireland at that point was both British and Irish, just like everyone in England would have been British and English.

                It's all I can offer currently, and it may not be much help, but bearing in mind these technicalities might be of help at some point.

                Sent from my iPhone

                On 3 Jun 2013, at 18:43, "Hec" <heca@...> wrote:

                 

                Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia. He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

                I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

                I have no other information.

                Is there information on the court martial?
                Was he a British or Irish soldier?
                Did he live in Ireland?

                Any help would be most appreciated
                Cheers
                Hec Alcock

              • Hec Alcock
                Hello Mal, Thanks for the information, I am learning more about English history than genealogy currently, Great. One day this wall will be crashing down.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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                  Hello Mal,

                   

                  Thanks for the information, I am learning more about English history than genealogy currently, Great.

                  One day this wall will be crashing down.

                   

                  Thanks

                   

                  Hec

                   


                  From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto: milgenire@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mal McKee
                  Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 12:30 AM
                  To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

                   

                   

                  Hi Hec,

                   

                  Just to answer your question on whether he was British or Irish.. he would have potentially been both. Everyone in Ireland at that point was both British and Irish, just like everyone in England would have been British and English.

                   

                  It's all I can offer currently, and it may not be much help, but bearing in mind these technicalities might be of help at some point.

                  Sent from my iPhone


                  On 3 Jun 2013, at 18:43, "Hec" <heca@...> wrote:

                   

                  Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia . He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

                  I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

                  I have no other information.

                  Is there information on the court martial?
                  Was he a British or Irish soldier?
                  Di d he live in Ireland ?

                  Any help would be most appreciated
                  Cheers
                  Hec Alcock

                • Hec Alcock
                  Hello Margaret, Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William Thanks for trying Hec _____ From:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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                    Hello Margaret,

                    Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                     

                    Thanks for trying

                    Hec

                     


                    From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto: milgenire@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                    Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                    To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                     

                     

                    You could check failteromhat for info.
                    Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                    Maggie the Dub

                    Sent from my iPhone

                  • lruddick
                    Hec: Found this. Am I on the right track? Birth: 1802 - Staffordshire, England Marriage: 1837 - Sydney, New South Wales Death: 9 Jan 1858 - Victoria,
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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                      Hec:

                       

                      Found this.  Am I on the right track?

                       

                          Birth:  1802 - Staffordshire, England

                          Marriage:  1837  - Sydney, New South Wales

                          Death:  9 Jan 1858 - Victoria, Australia

                          Parents:  William Alcock, Mary

                          Spouse:  Catherine McNamara

                       

                      Lewis

                       

                       

                      From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 4:20 PM
                      To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                       




                      Hello Margaret,

                      Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                       

                      Thanks for trying

                      Hec

                       


                      From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                      Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                      To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                       

                       

                      You could check failteromhat for info.
                      Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                      Maggie the Dub

                      Sent from my iPhone




                    • lruddick
                      Hec: Please send me your current email address for more lruddick@ix.netcom.com Lewis From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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                        Hec:

                         

                        Please send me your current email address for more lruddick@...

                         

                        Lewis

                         

                        From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 4:20 PM
                        To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                         




                        Hello Margaret,

                        Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                         

                        Thanks for trying

                        Hec

                         


                        From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                        Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                        To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                         

                         

                        You could check failteromhat for info.
                        Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                        Maggie the Dub

                        Sent from my iPhone




                      • lruddick
                        Hec: He died at Milkman’s Flat, Victoria, AU ( Jan, 1858 age 57. They had 10 children. Lewis From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
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                          Hec:

                           

                          He died at Milkman’s Flat, Victoria, AU ( Jan, 1858 age 57.  They had 10 children.

                           

                          Lewis

                           

                          From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
                          Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 4:20 PM
                          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                           




                          Hello Margaret,

                          Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                           

                          Thanks for trying

                          Hec

                           


                          From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                          Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                           

                           

                          You could check failteromhat for info.
                          Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                          Maggie the Dub

                          Sent from my iPhone




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