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RE: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

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  • lruddick
    Hec: I see from the internet that you are from down under . When I visited Australia I found your computerized records in your libraries very good for anyone
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
      Hec:

      I see from the internet that you are from "down under". When I visited
      Australia I found your computerized records in your libraries very good for
      anyone who had arrived as a result of transportation unlike those who went
      there as immigrants. These were libraries in Hobart and Melbourne.

      Lewis

      -----Original Message-----
      From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Hec
      Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 3:43 PM
      To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

      Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was
      sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence
      was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia.
      He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about
      1802

      I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot
      find any link to him in this unit.

      I have no other information.

      Is there information on the court martial?
      Was he a British or Irish soldier?
      Did he live in Ireland?

      Any help would be most appreciated
      Cheers
      Hec Alcock





      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Hec Alcock
      Gidday Lewis, You are correct that I am from Australia, from a town called Wallan, Victoria. I have exhausted all the Aus database and groups to find my
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013

        Gidday Lewis,

         

        You are correct that I am from  Australia , from a town called Wallan, Victoria .

         

        I have exhausted all the Aus database and groups to find my William in Australia , plus several overseas!

         

        I am trying to prove two things:

        1. Find some documents to prove the William of the “Morley” ship is the person that married Catherine McNamara in Sydney , 9/11/1837

        2. To locate the ancestors of William of “Morley”. By achieving this I may also get to resolve the first point.

         

        I am leaning toward they are one and the same person, both born in Staffordshire around 1802, Cannot find another W. Alcock arriving in Aust around that time either as a convict or a free settler.

         

        The history of the 4th was most interesting, It would appear they were in India (Kirkee) in 1827, so he may have been with another regiment

         

        Thanks for your replies

         

        Hec

         

         

         


        From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lruddick
        Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:04 AM
        To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

         

         

        Hec:

        I see from the internet that you are from "down under". When I visited
        Australia I found your computerized records in your libraries very good for
        anyone who had arrived as a result of transportation unlike those who went
        there as immigrants. These were libraries in Hobart and Melbourne.

        Lewis

        -----Original Message-----
        From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Hec
        Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 3:43 PM
        To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

        Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was
        sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence
        was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia .
        He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about
        1802

        I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot
        find any link to him in this unit.

        I have no other information.

        Is there information on the court martial?
        Was he a British or Irish soldier?
        Di d he live in Ireland ?

        Any help would be most appreciated
        Cheers
        Hec Alcock

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

      • lruddick
        Hec: If you can prevail upon someone in England to go to the National Archives those documents that I provided you a list of should contain his court martial
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013

          Hec:

           

          If you can prevail upon someone in England to go to the National Archives those documents that I provided you a list of should contain his court martial record and your answers except for the marriage information.

           

          Members of my extended family helped to found Ballarat west of you.

           

          Lewis

           

          From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
          Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 8:38 PM
          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

           




          Gidday Lewis,

           

          You are correct that I am from  Australia, from a town called Wallan, Victoria.

           

          I have exhausted all the Aus database and groups to find my William in Australia, plus several overseas!

           

          I am trying to prove two things:

          1. Find some documents to prove the William of the “Morley” ship is the person that married Catherine McNamara in Sydney, 9/11/1837

          2. To locate the ancestors of William of “Morley”. By achieving this I may also get to resolve the first point.

           

          I am leaning toward they are one and the same person, both born in Staffordshire around 1802, Cannot find another W. Alcock arriving in Aust around that time either as a convict or a free settler.

           

          The history of the 4th was most interesting, It would appear they were in India (Kirkee) in 1827, so he may have been with another regiment

           

          Thanks for your replies

           

          Hec

           

           

           


          From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lruddick
          Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:04 AM
          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

           

           

          Hec:

          I see from the internet that you are from "down under". When I visited
          Australia I found your computerized records in your libraries very good for
          anyone who had arrived as a result of transportation unlike those who went
          there as immigrants. These were libraries in Hobart and Melbourne.

          Lewis

          -----Original Message-----
          From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Hec
          Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 3:43 PM
          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

          Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was
          sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence
          was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia.
          He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about
          1802

          I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot
          find any link to him in this unit.

          I have no other information.

          Is there information on the court martial?
          Was he a British or Irish soldier?
          Did he live in Ireland?

          Any help would be most appreciated
          Cheers
          Hec Alcock

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links




        • Donnacha
          Hello, This is likely to be your man located in Army Deserters 1828-1840 on Findmypast
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 3, 2013
            Hello,
            This is likely to be your man located in Army Deserters 1828-1840 on Findmypast


            FMP is a pay service but using the option to purchase small blocks of credits cost can be kept quite low.

            Findmypast.co.uk registers of convicts in prison hulks 1818-1831 (ADM6), after-trial calendars of prisoners 1855-1931 (CRIM 9) are other items that may well be your man, possibly relating to the time between the Court Martial finding and transportation.


            As to the other parts of your question the first thing to bear in mind is that by the Act of Union of 1801 establishing the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland the question of whether he was a British or Irish soldier is redundant. There is a single British Army of which he would have been a member. Furthermore, to be stationed in Ireland in this period is no different than being stationed at any of the other barracks/stations in the United Kingdom.

            I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if he lived in Ireland. He will have of course during the time he was stationed there.

            Regards,

            Donnacha

            From: Hec <heca@...>
            To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 6:42:57 PM
            Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

             
            Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia. He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

            I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

            I have no other information.

            Is there information on the court martial?
            Was he a British or Irish soldier?
            Did he live in Ireland?

            Any help would be most appreciated
            Cheers
            Hec Alcock



          • Donnacha
            Incidentally, on what basis do you infer a 4th Light Dragoons connection? Was this your man s regiment and what evidence do you have for this inference? You
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
              Incidentally, on what basis do you infer a 4th Light Dragoons connection? Was this your man's regiment and what evidence do you have for this inference?

              You must also have evidence of the location of the Court Martial. Is there unequivocal evidence of this?

              Regards,

              Donnacha


              From: Hec <heca@...>
              To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 6:42:57 PM
              Subject: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

               
              Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia. He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

              I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

              I have no other information.

              Is there information on the court martial?
              Was he a British or Irish soldier?
              Did he live in Ireland?

              Any help would be most appreciated
              Cheers
              Hec Alcock



            • Margaret Doyle
              You could check failteromhat for info. Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that s a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch .
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                You could check failteromhat for info.
                Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                Maggie the Dub

                Sent from my iPhone
              • Hec Alcock
                Hello Donnacha Thank you for you reply, I did check with FMP a few weeks back and I think the person you have found was tried in 1831, (The Morley arrived in
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013

                  Hello Donnacha

                   

                  Thank you for you reply,

                   

                  I did check with FMP a few weeks back and I think the person you have found was tried in 1831, (The Morley arrived in Sydney Cove 3/3/1828) but I will get back to the library and check out the link.

                   

                  Am learning a lot on English history. Probably back in the 50s I would have been taught about the Union of 1801 but that was a long time ago!  Am grateful for the information. I was thinking that the two armies were different, and William may have been reared in Ireland and therefore not the William I was after.

                   

                  Will also check out the court martials you mentioned tomorrow.

                   

                  Regards your second memo. Someone from another group suggested he may be with the 4th Light Dragoons. I did not state he was in this unit but it was a possibility.

                   

                  The evidence that there was a court martial comes from his Certificate of Freedom Certificate that states

                   

                  Certificate of Freedom.

                  Vessel - Morley

                  landed Sydney Cove: 3/3/1828

                  CF no: 34/0954

                  Native Place: Staffordshire

                  Offence: Desertion

                  Place of Trial: Newbridge Co Kildare by Court  Martial

                  Date of Trial: 23/7/1827

                  Sentence: 7 years

                  Year of Birth: 1802

                  Dated: 30/7/1834

                  Item: 4/4323, Reel:993

                   

                  My thanks for your assistance and information

                  Hec


                • Mal McKee
                  Hi Hec, Just to answer your question on whether he was British or Irish.. he would have potentially been both. Everyone in Ireland at that point was both
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013
                    Hi Hec,

                    Just to answer your question on whether he was British or Irish.. he would have potentially been both. Everyone in Ireland at that point was both British and Irish, just like everyone in England would have been British and English.

                    It's all I can offer currently, and it may not be much help, but bearing in mind these technicalities might be of help at some point.

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On 3 Jun 2013, at 18:43, "Hec" <heca@...> wrote:

                     

                    Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia. He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

                    I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

                    I have no other information.

                    Is there information on the court martial?
                    Was he a British or Irish soldier?
                    Did he live in Ireland?

                    Any help would be most appreciated
                    Cheers
                    Hec Alcock

                  • Hec Alcock
                    Hello Mal, Thanks for the information, I am learning more about English history than genealogy currently, Great. One day this wall will be crashing down.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013

                      Hello Mal,

                       

                      Thanks for the information, I am learning more about English history than genealogy currently, Great.

                      One day this wall will be crashing down.

                       

                      Thanks

                       

                      Hec

                       


                      From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto: milgenire@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mal McKee
                      Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 12:30 AM
                      To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [milgenire] William Alcock, Court Martial

                       

                       

                      Hi Hec,

                       

                      Just to answer your question on whether he was British or Irish.. he would have potentially been both. Everyone in Ireland at that point was both British and Irish, just like everyone in England would have been British and English.

                       

                      It's all I can offer currently, and it may not be much help, but bearing in mind these technicalities might be of help at some point.

                      Sent from my iPhone


                      On 3 Jun 2013, at 18:43, "Hec" <heca@...> wrote:

                       

                      Hello, I am new to the group and looking for a William Alcock who was sentenced at a court martial 23/7/1827 at Newbridge Co Kildare. The offence was desertion and he was sentenced to 7 years transportation to Australia . He arrived in Sydney 1828.I believe he was born in Staffordshire UK about 1802

                      I am aware that the 4th Light Dragoons were active at this time but cannot find any link to him in this unit.

                      I have no other information.

                      Is there information on the court martial?
                      Was he a British or Irish soldier?
                      Di d he live in Ireland ?

                      Any help would be most appreciated
                      Cheers
                      Hec Alcock

                    • Hec Alcock
                      Hello Margaret, Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William Thanks for trying Hec _____ From:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013

                        Hello Margaret,

                        Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                         

                        Thanks for trying

                        Hec

                         


                        From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto: milgenire@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                        Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                        To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                         

                         

                        You could check failteromhat for info.
                        Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                        Maggie the Dub

                        Sent from my iPhone

                      • lruddick
                        Hec: Found this. Am I on the right track? Birth: 1802 - Staffordshire, England Marriage: 1837 - Sydney, New South Wales Death: 9 Jan 1858 - Victoria,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013

                          Hec:

                           

                          Found this.  Am I on the right track?

                           

                              Birth:  1802 - Staffordshire, England

                              Marriage:  1837  - Sydney, New South Wales

                              Death:  9 Jan 1858 - Victoria, Australia

                              Parents:  William Alcock, Mary

                              Spouse:  Catherine McNamara

                           

                          Lewis

                           

                           

                          From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
                          Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 4:20 PM
                          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                           




                          Hello Margaret,

                          Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                           

                          Thanks for trying

                          Hec

                           


                          From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                          Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                          To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                           

                           

                          You could check failteromhat for info.
                          Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                          Maggie the Dub

                          Sent from my iPhone




                        • lruddick
                          Hec: Please send me your current email address for more lruddick@ix.netcom.com Lewis From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013

                            Hec:

                             

                            Please send me your current email address for more lruddick@...

                             

                            Lewis

                             

                            From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 4:20 PM
                            To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                             




                            Hello Margaret,

                            Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                             

                            Thanks for trying

                            Hec

                             


                            From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                            Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                            To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                             

                             

                            You could check failteromhat for info.
                            Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                            Maggie the Dub

                            Sent from my iPhone




                          • lruddick
                            Hec: He died at Milkman’s Flat, Victoria, AU ( Jan, 1858 age 57. They had 10 children. Lewis From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 4, 2013

                              Hec:

                               

                              He died at Milkman’s Flat, Victoria, AU ( Jan, 1858 age 57.  They had 10 children.

                               

                              Lewis

                               

                              From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hec Alcock
                              Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 4:20 PM
                              To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                               




                              Hello Margaret,

                              Thanks for pointing me to a great site, so much information, but unfortunately no sign of my William

                               

                              Thanks for trying

                              Hec

                               


                              From: milgenire@yahoogroups.com [mailto:milgenire@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Doyle
                              Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 7:37 PM
                              To: milgenire@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [milgenire] Re: William Alcock, Court Martial

                               

                               

                              You could check failteromhat for info.
                              Ancesstry have access to British Army members but that's a paying site. Youve probably already checked Familysearch . Irishgenealogy is free. Rootsireland charges €5 to download details on sacramental records.
                              Maggie the Dub

                              Sent from my iPhone




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