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Re: Yodelling

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  • blue_luke
    ... all ... the ... topic ... trace ... Thanks for the reply but then, this answer raises even more questions!!!! For one thing, this MIDI guitar business is
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 5, 2002
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      --- In midiguitar@y..., "joekhejl" <joekhejl@e...> wrote:

      > Okay Richard, I'll say it. Although the ES-175 is a beautiful
      > guitar,it would be my last choice for a setup for the Axon. I had a
      > hex pickup rigged to my 175 for a while with the Axon 100 and it was
      > murder to get to work. A big hollow body like that is filled with
      all
      > sorts of kooky resonances and frequency peaks, things that make the
      > guitar sound so good to play but make any gadget like a MIDI guitar
      > synth, especially the Axon go bonkers! Anything you might do to the
      > guitar to improve the performance of the Axon would certainly hurt
      the
      > sound of the guitar. There was a lengthy thread here about this
      topic
      > with someone having the same problem. Use the search function to
      trace
      > back some of the messages for possible clues.

      Thanks for the reply but then, this answer raises even more
      questions!!!!
      For one thing, this MIDI guitar business is pretty new too me, and I
      want it realy much to work for me.
      I expect to have to adapt to this new instrument, which is what it is
      realy, I am even willing to relearn some techniques if required but
      then, what makes a good "subject" to a midi adaptation.
      After all, a solid body has as much reasonnances and harmonics as an
      ES-175, probably even more.
      Then what about adapting the system to a nice and old Takamine cut-
      away acoustic? (with a crack in the top to booth!)
      My first try of the Axon was on a VERY well set (by David Evellin
      from Steve's music shop, for those in the Montreal area, Hi Dave!)
      Ibanez PR1440 (pro-line series)with abysmal results, I did not
      account for the tremolo bar bag of problems!
      Then I tried the system on a nice JK Lado "Hawk".( 1970 some?)
      This is a solid body with neck trough the body and a somewhat shorter
      scale, with mixed results.
      Actualy, I found I can get the Lado and the Gibson work with quite
      good results using a pick, but my main interest is to use finger-
      picking, and I understand, then , that the Axon is no better in this
      respect than anything else on the market.

      I guess, I am looking for comments.
      Also, is there anyone who developed a systemic approach of the
      settings of " note off lim", "Trig level" and "sense" parameters!!?

      Thank you all, Luc
    • midi_guitar
      Hi: Since you re in Montreal-look at the Godin line. Since you want something optimized for MIDI guitar, look at the Godin line. I think they represent
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 5, 2002
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        Hi: Since you're in Montreal-look at the Godin line. Since you want
        something optimized for MIDI guitar, look at the Godin line.

        I think they represent excellent value, they've tested a lot of wood
        and body types with help from Richard McClish (RMC) and they're a good
        place to start until you get a custom made guitar with RMC's (like
        maybe a Dualette?).

        Peace!
        Joel C.


        -- In midiguitar@y..., "blue_luke" <blue_luke@y...> wrote:
        > --- In midiguitar@y..., "joekhejl" <joekhejl@e...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks for the reply but then, this answer raises even more
        > questions!!!!
        > For one thing, this MIDI guitar business is pretty new too me, and I
        > want it realy much to work for me.
        > I expect to have to adapt to this new instrument, which is what it
        is
        > realy, I am even willing to relearn some techniques if required but
        > then, what makes a good "subject" to a midi adaptation.
        > After all, a solid body has as much reasonnances and harmonics as an
        > ES-175, probably even more.
        > Then what about adapting the system to a nice and old Takamine cut-
        > away acoustic? (with a crack in the top to booth!)
        > My first try of the Axon was on a VERY well set (by David Evellin
        > from Steve's music shop, for those in the Montreal area, Hi Dave!)
        > Ibanez PR1440 (pro-line series)with abysmal results, I did not
        > account for the tremolo bar bag of problems!
        >
      • midi_guitar
        Yes, I ll say it. Try in fingerpick mode or try a Roland unit. Some of the yodeling is due to Axon s system. Also, clean up your frets, clip your nails,
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 5, 2002
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          Yes, I'll say it. Try in "fingerpick" mode or try a Roland unit.
          Some of the yodeling is due to Axon's system. Also, clean up your
          frets, clip your nails, press the strings down tight and keep them
          down until the note is off. On my Martin D-28 the fundamental fades
          before the harmonic, giving me octave jumps on held chords (like at
          the end of a piece).

          Solid bodies are definitely better (fewer resonances). Why do cellos
          and violins need posts? They must be mounted to resonate between two
          pitches (like between E and F on a cello).

          Joel C.

          > Other than that, I'll let somebody else say it....
          >
          > Best regards,
          >
          > RMC
        • Graeme Jaye
          Hi Joel midi_guitar Solid bodies are definitely better (fewer resonances). Obviously midi_guitar Why do cellos and violins need posts? They must midi_guitar
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 6, 2002
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            Hi Joel

            midi_guitar> Solid bodies are definitely better (fewer resonances).

            Obviously

            midi_guitar> Why do cellos and violins need posts? They must
            midi_guitar> be mounted to resonate between two pitches
            midi_guitar> (like between E and F on a cello).

            Errmmm.... I don't think so. It's more simple mechanics -
            if you took the post away, the tension on the strings would
            collapse the body of the instrument.

            Perhaps some instrument maker would care to take up this
            line of argument?

            Graeme Jaye

            graemejaye@...

            Audio Restoration and CD Repair
            http://www.personal-cd.com

            Hobby Musician - find some of my stuff here
            http://www.mp3.com/graemejaye
          • RMC
            ... -- The violin as we know it is a newer instrument than the Oud and the lutes which fostered the guitar. A greater degree of design engineering is involved,
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 6, 2002
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              midi_guitar wrote:
              > Why do cellos
              > and violins need posts?
              -- The violin as we know it is a newer instrument than the Oud and the
              lutes which fostered the guitar. A greater degree of design engineering
              is involved, although it all started with rubbing the ropes of two bows
              (the weapons) together so that only one rope produces a note.

              The soundpost is a little dowel joining the top and back. It is located
              (approximately) under the treble foot of the bridge in order to convert
              tipping motions of the bridge (from the bow rubbing horizontally on a
              string) into a see-saw motion of the flexible top, where most of the
              surface is going up & down. The back which is much stiffer moves a lot
              less and does so mostly in the area of the soundpost.

              The atack of a bowed note is a linear fade-in of the ultimate waveform.
              In terms of pitch detection, this allows obtaining two or more good
              fundamental cycles 'during' the attack of the note. The waveform as seen
              on the scope is a growing sawtooth without the rippling harmonics of
              plucked strings; what a deal... This realisation pushed a few friends
              and I to start ZETA Music Systems to market MIDI violins back in '85.

              Best regards,

              RMC
            • Ed Edwards
              ... I used to own a string bass (bass violin, bass fiddle, double-bass, whatever) and in the case of that instrument the placement of the soundpost is
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 6, 2002
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                > > Why do cellos
                > > and violins need posts?

                I used to own a string bass (bass violin, bass fiddle, double-bass, whatever)
                and in the case of that instrument the placement of the soundpost is absolutely
                essential for volume, tone and stability of the bowed note. When we who play
                electronically amplified instruments forget that acoustic instruments are
                exactly that: ACOUSTIC, we're fooling ourselves. The whole acoustic instrument,
                be it a piano, woodwind, guitar -- every part of the instrument contributes to
                the tone in some fashion.

                So here we go and slap an electronic pickup on a device intended for vibrating
                as much of the surrounding air as possible and we wonder why it glitches.
                Remember the ugliest guitar in the world (IMHO), the Roland G707 with the
                "stabilizer bar"? I owned one and can attest that it has almost no tone
                acoustically. You know how you can strum a Strat unplugged and hear things like
                the vibrato springs and the pickup cover vibrating? That's what Roland was
                trying to eliminate.

                RMC said he was with Zeta. Were you there during the Zeta guitar
                design/develolpment? It had a wired fret system like the Synthaxe, but it was a
                real guitar rather than merely a MIDI controller. I've only seen them in
                pictures, never heard one, and have only heard brief comments on the instrument.
                (One went by on eBay a couple of years ago, but the guy admitted he'd hacked on
                it or something so it wasn't a good example of the guitar.)

                Does/did anyone on the list own or use a Zeta guitar?

                Ed Edwards
                Leader: Ezekiel's Wheel »»»»Retro-Progressive Rock««««
                http://www.untiedmusic.com/ezekiel
                http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/227/ezekiels_wheel.html
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              • blue_luke
                ... want ... wood ... good ... No I am NOT going to buy a 12th guitar! The lady would simply not even approach the subject at supper time! I used to know Godin
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 7, 2002
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                  --- In midiguitar@y..., "midi_guitar" <joelc@e...> wrote:
                  > Hi: Since you're in Montreal-look at the Godin line. Since you
                  want
                  > something optimized for MIDI guitar, look at the Godin line.
                  >
                  > I think they represent excellent value, they've tested a lot of
                  wood
                  > and body types with help from Richard McClish (RMC) and they're a
                  good
                  > place to start until you get a custom made guitar with RMC's (like
                  > maybe a Dualette?).


                  No I am NOT going to buy a 12th guitar!
                  The lady would simply not even approach the subject at supper time!

                  I used to know Godin pretty well, when he used to work at "La Tosca"
                  one of Montreal's well known music store at the time (sixtees! yikes!)
                  He sold me my first guitar, a used harmony acoustic with F holes and
                  the strings got 1 inch over the fretboard after a a week-end of
                  camping.
                  This is where I learned that rain, sun and night dew are no good to a
                  guitar!!! (ROL)

                  But back to our subject, my intention was to also stick a bridge
                  piezo pick-up instead of the actual gibson saddles and get
                  an "accoustic" sound.
                  This would be great, it would allow me to play the whole gig with
                  just one guitar.
                  One model by Godin (???) does just that. But I think they ask about
                  $2,200 Can. for it down at Steve's music.
                  I think its worth every penny, but I just do not have the hay and the
                  justification for it! And the Gibson is not tradable for any
                  considerations, so is the Martin, and the Takamine, and the 62 P-bass
                  and... well, gou get the point!

                  Luc
                • Nik
                  Luc, MIDI guitar is full of enough compromises without the guitar being compromised as well. If you want to do it with an acoustic, you need an acoustic that
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 8, 2002
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                    Luc,

                    MIDI guitar is full of enough compromises without the guitar being
                    compromised as well.
                    If you want to do it with an acoustic, you need an acoustic that is designed
                    for the job. A Squire Affinity Strat will give you much better MIDI guitar
                    performance than just about any regular acoustic or semi acoustic.

                    Nik

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "blue_luke" <blue_luke@...>
                    To: <midiguitar@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:08 PM
                    Subject: [midiguitar] Re: Yodelling



                    >
                    > No I am NOT going to buy a 12th guitar!
                    > The lady would simply not even approach the subject at supper time!
                    >
                    > I used to know Godin pretty well, when he used to work at "La Tosca"
                    > one of Montreal's well known music store at the time (sixtees! yikes!)
                    > He sold me my first guitar, a used harmony acoustic with F holes and
                    > the strings got 1 inch over the fretboard after a a week-end of
                    > camping.
                    > This is where I learned that rain, sun and night dew are no good to a
                    > guitar!!! (ROL)
                    >
                    > But back to our subject, my intention was to also stick a bridge
                    > piezo pick-up instead of the actual gibson saddles and get
                    > an "accoustic" sound.
                    > This would be great, it would allow me to play the whole gig with
                    > just one guitar.
                    > One model by Godin (???) does just that. But I think they ask about
                    > $2,200 Can. for it down at Steve's music.
                    > I think its worth every penny, but I just do not have the hay and the
                    > justification for it! And the Gibson is not tradable for any
                    > considerations, so is the Martin, and the Takamine, and the 62 P-bass
                    > and... well, gou get the point!
                    >
                    > Luc
                    >
                  • steve
                    I think the gent is saying he s looking for an acoustic sound not necesarilly on an acoustic guitar but there definately is a point there, I come from an
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 8, 2002
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                      I think the gent is saying he's looking for an acoustic sound not
                      necesarilly on an acoustic guitar but there definately is a point there, I
                      come from an acoustic background and have had trouble in the past because of
                      it, it took me along time to get away from hollow bodies and I kept wanting
                      heavier strings, particuarly on the bass strings, both of these things got
                      in the way of the synth function although both made the piezo sound better

                      but my point... I'm currently using as my main axes 2 custom built semi
                      hollow instruments w/ RMC systems on them. these are both very solid w/
                      center blocks and stable necks, the same as solid bodies in most ways just a
                      couple of chambers, they work great w/ the RMC's on them
                      and since the quality of piezo sound is better on the RMC I don't miss the
                      hollow body.

                      so if among your 12 gtrs is one or two that are very stable w/ good necks
                      and great setups
                      slap an RMC on it and go, but choose wisely the RMC install is somewhat deep
                      so you don't want to redo it if posible. you don't have to get a gtr made
                      w/ the system in it as long as the gtr is well made and I'm betting you have
                      at least one real nice gtr, no?

                      and as to doing a gig w/ one gtr well it depends on how diverse you are but
                      the RMC rig does give you the ability to switch between 3 totally diferent
                      sound sources w/o hassles, you can indeed go from distorted power cords to
                      fingerpicked acoustic(and the RMC sounds good!) to a huge lush synth pad,
                      instantly, on the gtr, VERY cool, for those of us who used to do gigs going
                      back and forth between acoustic and electric this is huge, add a programable
                      EQ on the piezo and a programable preamp on the mag pu, a couple of synthes
                      and oh my the possibilities almost become problematic, ah yes

                      good luck w/ it

                      steve
                      From: "Nik" <fluke@...>
                      Reply-To: midiguitar@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:10:11 +0100
                      To: <midiguitar@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: [midiguitar] Re: Yodelling


                      Luc,

                      MIDI guitar is full of enough compromises without the guitar being
                      compromised as well.
                      If you want to do it with an acoustic, you need an acoustic that is designed
                      for the job. A Squire Affinity Strat will give you much better MIDI guitar
                      performance than just about any regular acoustic or semi acoustic.

                      Nik

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "blue_luke" <blue_luke@...>
                      To: <midiguitar@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:08 PM
                      Subject: [midiguitar] Re: Yodelling



                      >
                      > No I am NOT going to buy a 12th guitar!
                      > The lady would simply not even approach the subject at supper time!
                      >
                      > I used to know Godin pretty well, when he used to work at "La Tosca"
                      > one of Montreal's well known music store at the time (sixtees! yikes!)
                      > He sold me my first guitar, a used harmony acoustic with F holes and
                      > the strings got 1 inch over the fretboard after a a week-end of
                      > camping.
                      > This is where I learned that rain, sun and night dew are no good to a
                      > guitar!!! (ROL)
                      >
                      > But back to our subject, my intention was to also stick a bridge
                      > piezo pick-up instead of the actual gibson saddles and get
                      > an "accoustic" sound.
                      > This would be great, it would allow me to play the whole gig with
                      > just one guitar.
                      > One model by Godin (???) does just that. But I think they ask about
                      > $2,200 Can. for it down at Steve's music.
                      > I think its worth every penny, but I just do not have the hay and the
                      > justification for it! And the Gibson is not tradable for any
                      > considerations, so is the Martin, and the Takamine, and the 62 P-bass
                      > and... well, gou get the point!
                      >
                      > Luc
                      >




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