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high density floppies

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  • Chris M
    does anyone within arms reach of Ocean County have an ultra reliable 5.25 inch 1.2meg drive? I need, I need to archive these Tandy 2000 disks (720k)...both of
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 10, 2005
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      does anyone within arms reach of Ocean County have an
      ultra reliable 5.25 inch 1.2meg drive? I need, I need
      to archive these Tandy 2000 disks (720k)...both of my
      2000s are inoperative, and neither has a hard drive
      anywax. The one drive I do have reports nothing but
      errors when I attempt to WinImage a dd floppy disk.
      Maybe Im overlooking another solution to this problem.
      Id like to believe the 2ks drives would work in a
      vanillb pc, but I think I tried that in eons past.
      --- traintools@yahoogroups.com
      <traintools@...> wrote:
      > We took Charlie out until the computer issue is
      repaired...
      >
      > Ye Moderator


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    • Kelly Leavitt
      What are the symptoms of the 2000s? Any error messages? They used weird drives (I think they were Quad density). Does a standard DS/HD drive speak the same
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 11, 2005
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        What are the symptoms of the 2000s? Any error messages? They used weird
        drives (I think they were Quad density). Does a standard DS/HD drive speak
        the same format? I think they are DS/QD (Quad Density 720K).

        See http://tinyurl.com/9gzt4 for a way to read these using MS-DOS 3.3 and a
        plain old 486 clone. If you don't have a 486 running a suitable version of
        DOS, send me a disk or two and I'll give it a try here with one of my
        archiving boxes.

        See http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757/t2kfaq.txt for a Tandy
        2000 FAQ.

        Also, have you tried a basic cleaning of the floppy drives? Get some 99%
        isopropyl from the pharmacy (a pint runs $350 in Northern NJ). Blow out all
        the dust from the drives and clean off the heads with the isopropyl and some
        lint free swabs (photo supply, $9.99 per 100). Just be gentle with the swabs
        and don't drown the heads in alcohol. Let them dry for an hour or two before
        using just to be safe.

        There is a service manual up for sale on eBay right now. See:

        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5218105072

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Chris M [mailto:chrism3667@...]
        > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 11:50 AM
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [midatlanticretro] high density floppies
        >
        >
        > does anyone within arms reach of Ocean County have an
        > ultra reliable 5.25 inch 1.2meg drive? I need, I need
        > to archive these Tandy 2000 disks (720k)...both of my
        > 2000s are inoperative, and neither has a hard drive
        > anywax. The one drive I do have reports nothing but
        > errors when I attempt to WinImage a dd floppy disk.
        > Maybe Im overlooking another solution to this problem.
        > Id like to believe the 2ks drives would work in a
        > vanillb pc, but I think I tried that in eons past.
        > --- traintools@yahoogroups.com
        > <traintools@...> wrote:
        > > We took Charlie out until the computer issue is
        > repaired...
        > >
        > > Ye Moderator
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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      • Kelly Leavitt
        that s $3.50 for a pint. It ain t that expensive....
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 11, 2005
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          that's $3.50 for a pint. It ain't that expensive....

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Kelly Leavitt [mailto:kelly@...]
          > Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 9:10 PM
          > To: 'midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com'
          > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] high density floppies
          >
          >
          > What are the symptoms of the 2000s? Any error messages? They
          > used weird
          > drives (I think they were Quad density). Does a standard
          > DS/HD drive speak
          > the same format? I think they are DS/QD (Quad Density 720K).
          >
          > See http://tinyurl.com/9gzt4 for a way to read these using
          > MS-DOS 3.3 and a
          > plain old 486 clone. If you don't have a 486 running a
          > suitable version of
          > DOS, send me a disk or two and I'll give it a try here with one of my
          > archiving boxes.
          >
          > See
          > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757/t2kfaq.txt
          > for a Tandy
          > 2000 FAQ.
          >
          > Also, have you tried a basic cleaning of the floppy drives?
          > Get some 99%
          > isopropyl from the pharmacy (a pint runs $350 in Northern
          > NJ). Blow out all
          > the dust from the drives and clean off the heads with the
          > isopropyl and some
          > lint free swabs (photo supply, $9.99 per 100). Just be gentle
          > with the swabs
          > and don't drown the heads in alcohol. Let them dry for an
          > hour or two before
          > using just to be safe.
          >
          > There is a service manual up for sale on eBay right now. See:
          >
          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5218105072
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Chris M [mailto:chrism3667@...]
          > > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 11:50 AM
          > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [midatlanticretro] high density floppies
          > >
          > >
          > > does anyone within arms reach of Ocean County have an
          > > ultra reliable 5.25 inch 1.2meg drive? I need, I need
          > > to archive these Tandy 2000 disks (720k)...both of my
          > > 2000s are inoperative, and neither has a hard drive
          > > anywax. The one drive I do have reports nothing but
          > > errors when I attempt to WinImage a dd floppy disk.
          > > Maybe Im overlooking another solution to this problem.
          > > Id like to believe the 2ks drives would work in a
          > > vanillb pc, but I think I tried that in eons past.
          > > --- traintools@yahoogroups.com
          > > <traintools@...> wrote:
          > > > We took Charlie out until the computer issue is
          > > repaired...
          > > >
          > > > Ye Moderator
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
          > > Do You Yahoo!?
          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Chris M
          One probably has a bad p/s, the other one s p/s possibly works. The presence of a working 2000 doesn t solve my problem though, unless 3.5 drives will work
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 11, 2005
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            One probably has a bad p/s, the other one's p/s possibly works. The presence of a working 2000 doesn't solve my problem though, unless 3.5" drives will work with it (they should though). I haven't had time to play with this stuff. I need a reliable HD floppy to use with the 3+ utilities I know of that will allow reading a quad floppy. 

             Someone in the Tandy 2000 group is looking for Tandy Xenix for 8086/8's. I've had 2 queries in my blessed group in the past week. I'm so proud :)


            Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.
          • Kelly Leavitt
            I ll look. I have a cabinet full of floppy drives. If I have one, you re welcome to it for postage plus paypal fees. If you read the info at the tinurl link I
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 12, 2005
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              I'll look. I have a cabinet full of floppy drives. If I have one, you're
              welcome to it for postage plus paypal fees.

              If you read the info at the tinurl link I included (given by Frank Durda
              IV), you may not have to use any special programs to get to the data.

              I think the voltage levels are standard on the power supply so you could
              probably either:
              1) Fix the supply - The old tandy supplies were pretty simple.
              or
              2) Hack together an old AT supply and the connector from the 2000 to make a
              new supply. Pretty UGLY, but it would probably work. With a few extra
              connectors and a small enclosure, no one would even be able to tell at first
              glance. I couldn't find the specs, but by using the floppy connector, the
              grounds and the powersupply itself, you should be able to figure out what
              belongs where.

              If you don't hear from me in a day or so, ask again about the floppy drive.
              Where do you want me to mail it to? I'll clean and test it first.

              Also, this guy here has a HD kit for the 2000:
              http://www.digitaldinos.com/Pages/ForSale/RadioShackTandy/docRadioShackTandy
              .htm



              Kelly

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Chris M
              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: 7/11/2005 11:15 PM
              Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] high density floppies

              One probably has a bad p/s, the other one's p/s possibly works. The
              presence of a working 2000 doesn't solve my problem though, unless 3.5"
              drives will work with it (they should though). I haven't had time to
              play with this stuff. I need a reliable HD floppy to use with the 3+
              utilities I know of that will allow reading a quad floppy.

              Someone in the Tandy 2000 group is looking for Tandy Xenix for
              8086/8's. I've had 2 queries in my blessed group in the past week. I'm
              so proud :)


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            • billdeg@aol.com
              I have a 720 floppy condition unknown if you want it. Bill
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 12, 2005
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                I have a 720 floppy condition unknown if you want it.
                Bill
              • Kelly Leavitt
                Bill: You have 720k 5.25 floppy drives (DS/QD)? Pretty scarce items. Or are you offering a 720K, 3.5 floppy drive? They should work in the 2000 with little
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 12, 2005
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                  Bill:

                  You have 720k 5.25" floppy drives (DS/QD)? Pretty scarce items. Or are you
                  offering a 720K, 3.5" floppy drive? They should work in the 2000 with little
                  or no modification according to what I've read.

                  Kelly
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: billdeg@...
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 7/12/2005 2:07 PM
                  Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] high density floppies

                  I have a 720 floppy condition unknown if you want it.
                  Bill
                • billdeg@aol.com
                  Just a 720K 3.5. I may have more, but know of one for sure. How might one identify a 720K 5 1/4 ? Bill In a message dated 7/12/2005 3:57:01 PM Eastern
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 12, 2005
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                    Just a 720K 3.5. I may have more, but know of one for sure. How might one
                    identify a 720K 5 1/4"?
                    Bill

                    In a message dated 7/12/2005 3:57:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    kelly@... writes:

                    > Bill:
                    >
                    > You have 720k 5.25" floppy drives (DS/QD)? Pretty scarce items. Or are you
                    > offering a 720K, 3.5" floppy drive? They should work in the 2000 with
                    little
                    > or no modification according to what I've read.
                    >
                    > Kelly
                  • Chris M
                    I m not concerned with fixing the 2000 s (am of course, but it s not primary to preserving data). I can fix all that when I have the time, or hack in a pc/at
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 12, 2005
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                      I'm not concerned with fixing the 2000's (am of
                      course, but it's not primary to preserving data). I
                      can fix all that when I have the time, or hack in a
                      pc/at p/s if need be.
                      I know all about DigitalDinos...he gave me the first
                      2000 (had to buy the graphics card though). He don't
                      talk to me anymore though *lol*. I ain't dropping 60
                      bucks into a hard drive for the thing. I'd rather
                      figure out how to jury rig a small IDE drive or
                      flash/sd card when I need that sort of storage.
                      If you do have a HD floppy, I'd send you whatever is
                      needed in a money order (or cash even). It would have
                      to be perfect though. Don't mean to sound
                      high-falootin or nothing, just that a mediocre or
                      worse one won't solve any problems for me. Maybe I can
                      find an old AT lying around somewhere if not.
                      I did preliminary testing of the 2000's drives. They
                      don't look like they'll work in a pc. They "like"
                      being called HD 3.5" by the BIOS, as opposed to 720k
                      3.5" ("failure" reported on boot screen). No error
                      reported when said to be HD, but they wouldn't read
                      crap. They're Mitsubishi 4153's. There was a Sam's
                      photofacts for the Mits 4151 *I think*, and it's
                      probably a similar drive. Got to do some research I
                      guess.
                      To hook a 5.25" drive to a new pc, you have to have a
                      3.5" drive as "a:". These drives were functional in
                      that sense, though as I've said they wouldn't read a
                      disk.

                      --- Kelly Leavitt <kelly@...> wrote:

                      > I'll look. I have a cabinet full of floppy drives.
                      > If I have one, you're
                      > welcome to it for postage plus paypal fees.
                      >
                      > If you read the info at the tinurl link I included
                      > (given by Frank Durda
                      > IV), you may not have to use any special programs to
                      > get to the data.
                      >
                      > I think the voltage levels are standard on the power
                      > supply so you could
                      > probably either:
                      > 1) Fix the supply - The old tandy supplies were
                      > pretty simple.
                      > or
                      > 2) Hack together an old AT supply and the connector
                      > from the 2000 to make a
                      > new supply. Pretty UGLY, but it would probably work.
                      > With a few extra
                      > connectors and a small enclosure, no one would even
                      > be able to tell at first
                      > glance. I couldn't find the specs, but by using the
                      > floppy connector, the
                      > grounds and the powersupply itself, you should be
                      > able to figure out what
                      > belongs where.
                      >
                      > If you don't hear from me in a day or so, ask again
                      > about the floppy drive.
                      > Where do you want me to mail it to? I'll clean and
                      > test it first.
                      >
                      > Also, this guy here has a HD kit for the 2000:
                      >
                      http://www.digitaldinos.com/Pages/ForSale/RadioShackTandy/docRadioShackTandy
                      > .htm
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Kelly
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Chris M
                      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: 7/11/2005 11:15 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] high density
                      > floppies
                      >
                      > One probably has a bad p/s, the other one's p/s
                      > possibly works. The
                      > presence of a working 2000 doesn't solve my problem
                      > though, unless 3.5"
                      > drives will work with it (they should though). I
                      > haven't had time to
                      > play with this stuff. I need a reliable HD floppy to
                      > use with the 3+
                      > utilities I know of that will allow reading a quad
                      > floppy.
                      >
                      > Someone in the Tandy 2000 group is looking for
                      > Tandy Xenix for
                      > 8086/8's. I've had 2 queries in my blessed group in
                      > the past week. I'm
                      > so proud :)
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > Sell on Yahoo! Auctions
                      >
                      <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTE0bG4ybmRjBF9TAzk1OTQ5NjM2BHNlYwNtYW
                      >
                      lsdGFnBHNsawNhdWN0aW9ucw--/SIG=10vb8ief1/**http%3a//auctions.yahoo.com/>
                      > - No fees. Bid on great items.
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > * Visit your group " midatlanticretro
                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro> "
                      > on the web.
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                      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                      <mailto:midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
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                    • chrism3667
                      ... Not sure man. One day I d like to do a survey of all the different drives out there. The only one I am specifically aware of is the Mitsi 4153, and
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 12, 2005
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                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, billdeg@a... wrote:
                        > How might one
                        > identify a 720K 5 1/4"?
                        > Bill

                        Not sure man. One day I'd like to do a survey of all the different
                        drives out there. The only one I am specifically aware of is the Mitsi
                        4153, and possibly 4151, though I won't swear that's a quad. I'm
                        kicking myself for not getting the Victor 9000 when I had the chance.
                        Didn't use quad's, but 1.2meg 5.25's, but from what I remember, it
                        packed that much onto double density disks. Used variable speed
                        spindle motor like a Quackintosh. Oops, sorry you Mac people.
                        The NEC APC's that I will pick up this weekend...LOL NO COMMENTS
                        PLEASE!!!!...have 8" floppers. This will be the first puter I own wit
                        dem :). And thankfully it comes with at least one external 5.25"
                        drive. O happy day
                      • Kelly Leavitt
                        ... Knowing you is reason enough not to question this one... ;-) ... If you get this working let me know. I ve not seen anything regaring IDE on the 2000. Want
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 13, 2005
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                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Chris M [mailto:chrism3667@...]
                          > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:09 PM
                          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] high density floppies
                          >
                          >
                          > I know all about DigitalDinos...he gave me the first
                          > 2000 (had to buy the graphics card though). He don't
                          > talk to me anymore though *lol*. I ain't dropping 60
                          > bucks into a hard drive for the thing.
                          Knowing you is reason enough not to question this one...
                          ;-)


                          > I'd rather
                          > figure out how to jury rig a small IDE drive or
                          > flash/sd card when I need that sort of storage.
                          If you get this working let me know. I've not seen anything regaring IDE on
                          the 2000. Want to trade a 2000 for a (working) model 12? I have a spare
                          keyboard.


                          > If you do have a HD floppy, I'd send you whatever is
                          > needed in a money order (or cash even). It would have
                          > to be perfect though. Don't mean to sound
                          > high-falootin or nothing, just that a mediocre or
                          > worse one won't solve any problems for me. Maybe I can
                          > find an old AT lying around somewhere if not.
                          Are you going to InfoAge on 8/13? I'll bring a floppy there. I have a closet
                          full of 5.25" drives. What color would you prefer? I have white, beige, that
                          particular gray/green I think they call putty, and black (I think I still
                          have a few HD black drives).

                          I'll try to find one that color. I'll clean it up and test it before then. I
                          have brand new, 1/3 height, 5.25", DS/HD drives still in the little blue
                          baggies if that'll do the trick for you.

                          If anyone is wondering, I buy up old 5.25" lots on eBay for use in the II,
                          12, 16, 6000 line from Tandy. Most HD ones drop right in with a home made
                          cable. Some however just won't work. That's why I have so many laying
                          around. I also buy up known DS/DD drives when the price is right just to
                          keep my XT, PC and old z80s running. I picked up a pair from a guy in Edison
                          NJ (who has a huge Osborn collection by the way) for about $9.99 plus
                          shipping.


                          > I did preliminary testing of the 2000's drives. They
                          > don't look like they'll work in a pc. They "like"
                          > being called HD 3.5" by the BIOS, as opposed to 720k
                          > 3.5" ("failure" reported on boot screen). No error
                          > reported when said to be HD, but they wouldn't read
                          > crap. They're Mitsubishi 4153's. There was a Sam's
                          > photofacts for the Mits 4151 *I think*, and it's
                          > probably a similar drive. Got to do some research I
                          > guess.
                          Do you mean the 4853? According to this web site you can still buy them. I
                          know, money is scarce...
                          http://gigabite.com/floppy.html


                          > To hook a 5.25" drive to a new pc, you have to have a
                          > 3.5" drive as "a:". These drives were functional in
                          > that sense, though as I've said they wouldn't read a
                          > disk.
                          The A: drive on this XP machine is a 5.25" DS/HD drive. Can be set that way
                          in BIOS. May be particular to certain machines/motherboards/bioses.

                          Good luck on the 2000s anyway.

                          Kelly
                        • Chris M
                          ... Ah, but I was sent that bad boy for zilch. And it was offered, I didn t even have to ask. His wife even expressed her personal thanks for me taking it off
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 13, 2005
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                            > Knowing you is reason enough not to question this
                            > one...
                            > ;-)

                            Ah, but I was sent that bad boy for zilch. And it was
                            offered, I didn't even have to ask. His wife even
                            expressed her personal thanks for me taking it off her
                            hands.

                            > I've not seen anything regaring IDE on the 2000.

                            Neither have I, but assuming many of the signals are
                            similar to that of a PC's bus (although physically
                            incompatible), some even identical, it doesn't seem
                            like all that much of a stretch. XT IDE cards aren't
                            too hard to find, and as a matter of fact I already
                            have an Acculogic sIDE/16

                            >Want to trade a 2000 for a (working) model
                            > 12? I have a spare
                            > keyboard.

                            Being that neither is working, I think it behooves me
                            to get one functional, even if it takes scrounging
                            parts from the 2nd one.

                            > What color would you prefer? I
                            > have white, beige, that
                            > particular gray/green I think they call putty, and
                            > black (I think I still
                            > have a few HD black drives).

                            I could give a rat's keester what color it was. It
                            needs to function properly. On second thought, if you
                            should happen to have flaming mauve, I'll take one of
                            those.

                            > I'll try to find one that color. I'll clean it up
                            > and test it before then. I
                            > have brand new, 1/3 height, 5.25", DS/HD drives
                            > still in the little blue
                            > baggies if that'll do the trick for you.

                            Ooo little blue baggies. They'll add the ambiance
                            necessary to complete the project. How about telling
                            me how much I need to send you for one of those. I
                            don't know if I'll be there or not on 8/13 at this
                            time.

                            > Do you mean the 4853? According to this web site you
                            > can still buy them. I
                            > know, money is scarce...
                            > http://gigabite.com/floppy.html

                            Yes, I goofed, 4853 is correct. And C-notes are scarce
                            enough that I wouldn't go handing them over to that
                            shyster. A true hacker :0 wouldn't spend (that kind
                            of) money unless it's absolutely necessary. And
                            somehow I justified spending $200, plus shipping, for
                            a Televideo Personal Mini. Money ain't so scarce right
                            now, but I should probably start acting like it is.



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