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Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: plotter from Kagan

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  • Evan Koblentz
    ... nameplate is likely underneath the plotter ... photograph the cleaned-up Teletype and Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me
    Message 1 of 27 , May 2 11:50 AM
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      >>>> Evan, please report on the Bendix nameplate and whatever Calcomp
      nameplate is likely underneath the plotter ... photograph the
      cleaned-up Teletype and

      Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
      email Saturday in the early afternoon).

      Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
      I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
      Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
    • David Gesswein
      ... They are the same as yours and mine. Looks like your power plug is broken. It is still a production part. If you need me to dig up where I bought one let
      Message 2 of 27 , May 2 12:17 PM
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        > Also see if the connector on the back
        > looks like the connector (or connector fitting) on the photo of mine.
        >
        They are the same as yours and mine. Looks like your power plug is
        broken. It is still a production part. If you need me to dig up where I
        bought one let me know. The data plug seems to be long out of production.
        I saw a part broker had one at much more than I wanted to pay. I made a
        cable with some leftover pins for mil round connectors and some hot melt.

        The MARCH plotter has a cable coming out from the guts, possible through
        where the fuse holder should be. Looks like they couldn't get a mate either.

        > I don't know the operational status of the Kagan/MARCH plotter.
        >
        Nobody does. It looks like it was operation when last used in the mid 70's
        I didn't look inside enough to see if something significant was obvious.

        > I do not have the removable pen mech at
        > all
        >
        That will be a little tricky to make a replacement for. The pen holder is
        a solenoid. It is powered by the two wires that move the pen left and
        right. The pen is in a metal part which is the solenoid core which the
        outer coil moves up and down for pen up and down.

        - that's why I took a number of photos of the Kagan plotter's pen
        > mech. I anticipated either obtaining one for me, or building one. I am
        > not sure the MARCH/Kagan pen mech is complete - David, please comment.
        >
        In the previous list email I said its missing the interior metal core and the
        top. I will try to take some more pictures this weekend and add them
        to my Calcomp page.
      • Bryan Pope
        ... you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to Amsterdam..
        Message 3 of 27 , May 2 1:44 PM
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          Evan Koblentz wrote:
          > Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
          > email Saturday in the early afternoon).
          >
          > Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
          > I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
          > Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
          >
          you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the
          last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to
          Amsterdam.. Neil Patrick Harris will be making another appearance.. :)

          Cheers,

          Bryan

          P.S. Have a joy joy day!
        • John Allain
          ... Here s my version of a zoom and enhance for group view: http://www.panix.com/~allain/BendiX.jpg ... Yes, Didn t David even bring one of those Calcomps to
          Message 4 of 27 , May 2 3:01 PM
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            > There IS a "Bendix" nameplate behind the
            > drum as David noted. I did the image "zoom and ehnance" Bob suggested.

            Here's my version of a zoom and enhance for group view:
            http://www.panix.com/~allain/BendiX.jpg

            > But look at Bill's and David's and my (Herb's) photos and I
            > think it's likely the Kagan plotter is Calcomp.

            Yes, Didn't David even bring one of those Calcomps to the VCFe?

            John A.
          • Herb Johnson
            David Gesswein wrote at length about the MARCH/Kagan Calcomp plotter and about mine, based on the pictures I ve posted of both on my PDP-8 Web page.
            Message 5 of 27 , May 3 8:33 AM
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              David Gesswein <djg@...> wrote at length about the MARCH/Kagan
              Calcomp plotter and about mine, based on the pictures I've posted of
              both on my PDP-8 Web page. I've responded privately and he and I will
              discuss details. Any results of note will be on my PDP-8 page or
              posted here.

              Addtional photos on my PDP-8 Web page now include a picture of the pen
              mechanism, taken from the Calcomp manual available via David's
              excellent PDP-8 and Calcomp plotter Web pages. Thank you to David.
              David's site is linked from my Web page.

              http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/pdp8.html

              In due course, I expect MARCH to create their own Web page, on the
              MARCH Web site, about the RESISTORS/Kagan PDP-8 and related devices.
              There is considerable history about this donation which MARCH should
              explore with Claude and put on a MARCH-generated Web page and into
              documents associated with MARCH's PDP-8 display. I just got things
              started, as did Bill with his photos, and Evan by setting up the '8
              for display; and as other MARCH friends and members contributed their
              efforts. (Those contributions are better noted on a MARCH Web page
              than on mine.)

              I'm busy enough, working on a PDP-11/20 display for MARCH.

              Otherwise, as I've posted, I'm willing to work on the Calcomp plotter
              because I have what is likely to be a duplicate, working unit. And I
              need parts for mine as well!

              Herb Johnson
              retrotechnology.com
            • Herb Johnson
              ... David s Web page is now linked on my PDP-8 Web page, and he has pictures of his PDP-8/I exhibit. John, about your zoom and enhance . Here s an idea,
              Message 6 of 27 , May 3 10:15 AM
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                "John Allain" <allain@...> wrote:
                >
                > > There IS a "Bendix" nameplate behind the
                > > drum as David noted. I did the image "zoom and ehnance" Bob suggested.
                >
                > Here's my version of a zoom and enhance for group view:
                > http://www.panix.com/~allain/BendiX.jpg
                >
                > > But look at Bill's and David's and my (Herb's) photos and I
                > > think it's likely the Kagan plotter is Calcomp.
                >
                > Yes, Didn't David even bring one of those Calcomps to the VCFe?
                >
                > John A.
                >

                David's Web page is now linked on my PDP-8 Web page, and he has
                pictures of his PDP-8/I exhibit.

                John, about your "zoom and enhance". Here's an idea, others can
                participate. The '8 Web page has photos of the modules on either side
                of the PDP-8. Why not "zoom" in and make a text table of the modules
                by name? Someone will have to do that eventually to inventory the
                modules, see that they are in their proper places, and see if any are
                missing or needed. A table of "original" positions, before any work is
                done, will be a useful reference.

                http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/pdp8.html

                Just give me time to add higher-resolution images to that page.

                I've done this for the 11/20, on its Web page.

                http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/

                herb johnson
                retrotechnology.com
              • Evan
                It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original. ... From: Bryan Pope Subj: OT: Harold & Kumar (was: Re:
                Message 7 of 27 , May 3 12:25 PM
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                  It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original.

                  -----Original Message-----

                  From: Bryan Pope <bryan.pope@...>
                  Subj: OT: Harold & Kumar (was: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: plotter from Kagan)
                  Date: Fri May 2, 2008 4:45 pm
                  Size: 1K
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com

                  Evan Koblentz wrote:
                  > Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
                  > email Saturday in the early afternoon).
                  >
                  > Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
                  > I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
                  > Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
                  >
                  you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the
                  last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to
                  Amsterdam.. Neil Patrick Harris will be making another appearance.. :)

                  Cheers,

                  Bryan

                  P.S. Have a joy joy day!


                  ------------------------------------

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                • Bryan Pope
                  ... LOL! And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching Clerks! :) Lots of funny parts... Cheers, Bryan
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 3 12:33 PM
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                    Evan wrote:
                    > It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original.
                    >
                    LOL! And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching Clerks! :) Lots
                    of funny parts...

                    Cheers,

                    Bryan

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    >
                    > From: Bryan Pope <bryan.pope@...>
                    > Subj: OT: Harold & Kumar (was: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: plotter from Kagan)
                    > Date: Fri May 2, 2008 4:45 pm
                    > Size: 1K
                    > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Evan Koblentz wrote:
                    >
                    >> Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
                    >> email Saturday in the early afternoon).
                    >>
                    >> Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
                    >> I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
                    >> Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
                    >>
                    >>
                    > you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the
                    > last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to
                    > Amsterdam.. Neil Patrick Harris will be making another appearance.. :)
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > Bryan
                    >
                    > P.S. Have a joy joy day!
                    >
                    >
                    > -
                  • mejeep_ferret
                    I just read http://www.pdp8online.com/563/563.shtml That s a fine web page about the plotter. The manuals are greatly appreciated. It would be great seeing
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 3 5:50 PM
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                      I just read
                      http://www.pdp8online.com/563/563.shtml
                      That's a fine web page about the plotter. The manuals are greatly
                      appreciated. It would be great seeing the Plotter Excerciser and
                      Plotter Diagnostic running the plotter again.

                      I have the IBM 1627 model 1 as shown in
                      http://www.ibm1130.net/functional/Plotter.html
                      I used it on the IBM system 1130 at college and got to keep it when
                      the systems were scrapped/decommissioned (no space!) I wrote FORTRAN
                      programs to generate Bode plots on the semilog paper, pausing to
                      change pen color for phase and magnitude.

                      They're actually made by Calcomp (and the 1130's paper tape reader was
                      actually made by Tally).

                      The interface is /really dumb/: just wires for
                      +X one step (1/100 inch)
                      -X one step
                      +Y one step
                      -Y one step
                      pen up
                      pen down

                      I have the IBM manuals for the plotter. It's an amazing amount of
                      transistorized circuitry for just advancing the stepper motors without
                      anything fancy such as slewing them motors.

                      I have at least 50 paper rolls for it (one foot by about 100 feet) but
                      most are pre-printed with semilog and log-log scales.

                      Yes, the takeup spool was just a spare cardboard tube from the paper
                      roll. The drum was large enough to tape a letter sized paper on it
                      (preferably with drafting tape so it removes completely without residue).

                      When I can dig out the fitted wood accessory boxes, I'll photograph
                      all the pieces
                      - the solenoid used for all pen types
                      - the sleeve and low top for the small ballpoint pens
                      - the sleeve and high top for the pressurized ballpoint pens
                      - the tip, barrel, collar, ink reservoir and hollow top for the
                      drafting pens
                      - the small glass alignment reticle with crosshairs for aligning the
                      carriage using the holder one inch above the pen (the program had to
                      move back one inch since it's not reasonable for the operator to count
                      100 single steps). (the Bendix carriage does not have that).
                      - the large glass alignment reticle with crosshairs that goes into the
                      pen holder for aligning where the pen goes.

                      The hollow top for the drafting pen also allowed felt tip pens that
                      were fitted with a metal ring.

                      -- Jeff Jonas
                    • B. Degnan
                      It s been a while - I have updated my home page. http://vintagecomputer.net bd
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 3 9:52 PM
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                        It's been a while - I have updated my home page.

                        http://vintagecomputer.net

                        bd
                      • Evan Koblentz
                        I borrowed that first issue from Erik K. @ VCF last fall. Had it autographed by Lee Felsenstein. :) ... From: B. Degnan [mailto:billdeg@degnanco.com] Sent:
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 3 9:56 PM
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                          I borrowed that first issue from Erik K. @ VCF last fall. Had it
                          autographed by Lee Felsenstein. :)


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: B. Degnan [mailto:billdeg@...]
                          Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 12:53 AM
                          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [midatlanticretro] vintagecomputer.net update


                          It's been a while - I have updated my home page.

                          http://vintagecomputer.net

                          bd




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                        • Dan Roganti
                          Bryan Pope wrote: Evan wrote: It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original. LOL! And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 4 8:57 AM
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                            Bryan Pope wrote:
                            Evan wrote:
                              
                            It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original.
                                
                            LOL!  And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching Clerks! :)  Lots 
                            of funny parts...
                              

                            I   AM    I-I-I-R-R-O-O-N-N-M-M-A-A-N-N

                            Definitely worth absorbing the ambiance from the silver screen.

                            But then I didn't grow up without my comic books nor graphic novels.

                            =Dan
                            -- 
                            [ Pittsburgh --- http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/           ]
                            
                          • Herb Johnson
                            ... Hello, Jeff, my compliments. Thanks for the Web link and your compliments about Dave s Web page. I ve added the IBM link to my PDP-8 Web page. In due
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 4 1:49 PM
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                              "mejeep_ferret" <mejeep@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > I just read
                              > http://www.pdp8online.com/563/563.shtml
                              > That's a fine web page about the plotter. The manuals are greatly
                              > appreciated. It would be great seeing the Plotter Excerciser and
                              > Plotter Diagnostic running the plotter again.
                              >
                              > I have the IBM 1627 model 1 as shown in
                              > http://www.ibm1130.net/functional/Plotter.html
                              > I used it on the IBM system 1130 at college and got to keep it when
                              > the systems were scrapped/decommissioned (no space!)...

                              Hello, Jeff, my compliments.

                              Thanks for the Web link and your compliments about Dave's Web page.
                              I've added the IBM link to "my" PDP-8 Web page. In due course I'll add
                              your plotter comments here as a description there, with your
                              permission. Thanks!

                              > I have the IBM manuals for the plotter.

                              You might compare them to the Calcomp manuals which Dave links to on
                              his site.

                              > I have at least 50 paper rolls for it (one foot by about
                              > 100 feet) but
                              > most are pre-printed with semilog and log-log scales.

                              Preprinting is no big deal; one could reverse the roll. I'd like a few
                              rolls for my plotter; I presume MARCH would like a few. I'd be glad to
                              pay shipping for some rolls and pass a few along to MARCH. I'll
                              contact you privately to discuss terms.

                              > When I can dig out the fitted wood accessory boxes, I'll photograph
                              > all the pieces

                              Greatly appreciated, I'll add them to the page, you can send them to
                              me. Let me know if there are any photos I need to take of *my*
                              plotter. Presuming Evan permits me to restore the MARCH/Kagan plotter,
                              I'll photograph it while in process.

                              Hmmm...this bit of work may evolve into a permanent Calcomp plotter
                              Web page on my (retrotechnology.com) Web site. Ultimately I presume
                              MARCH will have their own PDP-8 Web page with other bits like the
                              plotter, TTY, any papertape reader MARCH comes up with).

                              Herb Johnson
                              old plotter
                              retrotechnology.com
                            • Evan Koblentz
                              Today was the first day our 8 was on public display at the museum. We had a typical amount of visitors today (around a dozen), most of whom seemed very into
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 4 8:56 PM
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                                Today was the first day our '8 was on public display at the museum. We had
                                a typical amount of visitors today (around a dozen), most of whom seemed
                                very into computers (sometimes they're not). Everyone today had that 'wow'
                                expression when they saw the minicomputer. :)

                                NJARC's Harry Klancer was particularly happy to see it in our museum,
                                because he used to work on the same model. I suggested to him that he sign
                                on to our list here...

                                Tuesday night, I'm meeting the plastics guy (see thread below). Going to
                                bring him the intact side of the '8 cover so he can take measurements and
                                assess whether it's feasible to make two replicas at a decent price for us.
                                (Dont worry, I am NOT leaving the original cover with him.)

                                I had to bring the cover home today in the passenger seat because it doesn't
                                fit in my trunk!



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Evan Koblentz [mailto:evan@...]
                                Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:37 AM
                                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: PDP-8 ... On display


                                Cool. I didn't look at it that closely but I will this weekend. (Might be
                                down there Saturday AND Sunday this weekend. There's some kind of special
                                "Monmouth County Historal Trail", or whatever it's called, and Fred
                                announced at the meeting last night that InfoAge is on the map. We're
                                supposed to be open 12-5 both days.

                                Also, today I called a couple of local plastics fabricators. One company
                                particularly impressed me. As soon as I said "non-profit science museum"
                                the guy was very responsive. Said he's been in the field for 30 years and
                                he rattled off a list of high-profile clients, including a bunch of artsy
                                things, so he 'gets' that what we're doing is special and fragile. Said I
                                can bring him the intact original side of the '8's plexi cover, and that
                                he'll take some measurements and assess if he can build two new covers in a
                                cost-effective manner. From what he said on the phone today, I feel very
                                encouraged.



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: mejeep_ferret [mailto:mejeep@...]
                                Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:25 AM
                                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: PDP-8 ... On display


                                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...> wrote:
                                > As promised, here are some cameraphone pictures from tonight (just
                                > 1.3MP

                                the plotter on the left
                                - what is the nameplate: IBM or CalComp?
                                - do you have all the pen accessories?
                                - is it interfaced to anything?

                                The reason I ask: I have an identical IBM 1627 plotter complete with manual,
                                both wood boxes of accessories, and lotsa paper rolls for it!


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