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Re: PDP-8 ... On display

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  • Herb Johnson
    ... so I built a makeshift PDP-8 exhibit. :) ... It looks good in the display room. I suggest you don t open up the cage very often; those cables are 40 years
    Message 1 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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      "Evan" <evan@...> wrote:
      >
      > Down here at InfoAge for the weekly meeting. Had some time to kill,
      so I built a makeshift PDP-8 exhibit. :)
      >

      It looks good in the display room. I suggest you don't open up the
      cage very often; those cables are 40 years old, don't flex them. A
      good photo of the interior, posted nearby, would be sufficient for the
      "makeshift exhibit".

      I also suggest you use the content on the PDP-8 Web page I just
      created, to make a one-page description, with Web links, which can be
      color-printed and posted nearby. Please, please, please - provide
      visitors with some information about this computer and who used it and
      what they did. Again, my brief TCF experience was that even
      experienced modern computerists just saw it as old, junk - irrelevant.
      Tell our visitors why it is NOT.

      Case in point. An engineering friend of mine looked at the Web page I
      created and called the '8 a "resistor computer. I did not know they
      made computers out of resistors." I'll fix that shortly. I'd welcome
      any other comments about the page. Again, it's not my intention to
      create "the" MARCH PDP-8 Web page. Not my job. But like Evan, I'm just
      trying to get this machine into display and exhibit as soon as possible.

      http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/pdp8.html

      Herb Johnson
      retrotechnology.com
    • Herb Johnson
      ... It s ... black plate ... Tht black strip is probably a Dymo lable. http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/pdp8.html I will shortly update the PDP-8 Web page
      Message 2 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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        David Gesswein <djg@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I have better pics on my web site, but I did not see a name plate.
        It's
        > > either on the underside or there is none.
        > >
        > You can just about read the name plate in this picture. Its the
        black plate
        > in the center back above the paper.
        > http://vintagecomputer.net/tcf_2008/digital_pdp8-era_plotter.JPG
        >
        Tht black strip is probably a Dymo lable.

        http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/pdp8.html

        I will shortly update the PDP-8 Web page I've created to include
        photos of the "Kagan" Calcomp plotter; photos of my *own* Calcomp 565
        plotter which I recently acquired; and links as posted here by David
        Gesswein to his site of his longer-version Calcomp plotter and his
        PDP-8/I exhibit at TCF-EAST last here (presuming his permission to do so).

        The nameplate on my plotter is underneath. Evan, can you look under
        the "Kagan" plotter this weekend and post the name and the model
        number you'll likely see there? Also see if the connector on the back
        looks like the connector (or connector fitting) on the photo of mine.
        I don't know the operational status of the Kagan/MARCH plotter.

        My Calcomp plotter "works" to the extent that the manual controls
        produce appropriate movement. I do not have the removable pen mech at
        all - that's why I took a number of photos of the Kagan plotter's pen
        mech. I anticipated either obtaining one for me, or building one. I am
        not sure the MARCH/Kagan pen mech is complete - David, please comment.

        I volunteer to review and restore the MARCH/Kagan Calcomp plotter.
        This I can do, I have one myself, I need to fix mine, I see that David
        has the docs online and runs one also. But it may not happen this
        month (May).

        Herb Johnson
        We have the technology.
        retrotechnology.com
      • Herb Johnson
        ... Correction to my recent post. There IS a Bendix nameplate behind the drum as David noted. I did the image zoom and ehnance Bob suggested. Sorry, can t
        Message 3 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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          > --- David Gesswein <djg@...> wrote:
          >
          > > > I have better pics on my web site, but I did not see a name plate.
          > > It's
          > > > either on the underside or there is none.
          > > >
          > > You can just about read the name plate in this picture. Its the black
          > > plate
          > > in the center back above the paper.
          > > http://vintagecomputer.net/tcf_2008/digital_pdp8-era_plotter.JPG
          > >
          >Bob Grieb <bobgrieb@...> wrote:
          >
          > If this were a high-tech movie, we could just zoom in on
          > that label, then hit a button called "enhance" and the
          > label would appear clearly on the screen. Too bad it
          > doesn't really work that way...
          >

          Correction to my recent post. There IS a "Bendix" nameplate behind the
          drum as David noted. I did the image "zoom and ehnance" Bob suggested.
          Sorry, can't create pixels from thin air. Bendix was a manufacturer of
          the era. But look at Bill's and David's and my (Herb's) photos and I
          think it's likely the Kagan plotter is Calcomp.

          So Evan, please report on the Bendix nameplate and whatever Calcomp
          nameplate is likely underneath the plotter. Thanks!

          The PDP-8 page now has some discussion of the plotter. Claude will
          have to be asked about how it came to be part of the 8.

          Additionally, I have no good photos of the "Kagan/RESISTORS" Teletype.
          Evan or whoever, can you photograph the cleaned-up Teletype and
          provide the photo? Contact me c/o retrotechnology.com, check the site
          for an address.

          Herb Johnson
          retrotechnology.com
        • Evan Koblentz
          ... nameplate is likely underneath the plotter ... photograph the cleaned-up Teletype and Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me
          Message 4 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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            >>>> Evan, please report on the Bendix nameplate and whatever Calcomp
            nameplate is likely underneath the plotter ... photograph the
            cleaned-up Teletype and

            Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
            email Saturday in the early afternoon).

            Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
            I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
            Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
          • David Gesswein
            ... They are the same as yours and mine. Looks like your power plug is broken. It is still a production part. If you need me to dig up where I bought one let
            Message 5 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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              > Also see if the connector on the back
              > looks like the connector (or connector fitting) on the photo of mine.
              >
              They are the same as yours and mine. Looks like your power plug is
              broken. It is still a production part. If you need me to dig up where I
              bought one let me know. The data plug seems to be long out of production.
              I saw a part broker had one at much more than I wanted to pay. I made a
              cable with some leftover pins for mil round connectors and some hot melt.

              The MARCH plotter has a cable coming out from the guts, possible through
              where the fuse holder should be. Looks like they couldn't get a mate either.

              > I don't know the operational status of the Kagan/MARCH plotter.
              >
              Nobody does. It looks like it was operation when last used in the mid 70's
              I didn't look inside enough to see if something significant was obvious.

              > I do not have the removable pen mech at
              > all
              >
              That will be a little tricky to make a replacement for. The pen holder is
              a solenoid. It is powered by the two wires that move the pen left and
              right. The pen is in a metal part which is the solenoid core which the
              outer coil moves up and down for pen up and down.

              - that's why I took a number of photos of the Kagan plotter's pen
              > mech. I anticipated either obtaining one for me, or building one. I am
              > not sure the MARCH/Kagan pen mech is complete - David, please comment.
              >
              In the previous list email I said its missing the interior metal core and the
              top. I will try to take some more pictures this weekend and add them
              to my Calcomp page.
            • Bryan Pope
              ... you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to Amsterdam..
              Message 6 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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                Evan Koblentz wrote:
                > Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
                > email Saturday in the early afternoon).
                >
                > Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
                > I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
                > Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
                >
                you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the
                last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to
                Amsterdam.. Neil Patrick Harris will be making another appearance.. :)

                Cheers,

                Bryan

                P.S. Have a joy joy day!
              • John Allain
                ... Here s my version of a zoom and enhance for group view: http://www.panix.com/~allain/BendiX.jpg ... Yes, Didn t David even bring one of those Calcomps to
                Message 7 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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                  > There IS a "Bendix" nameplate behind the
                  > drum as David noted. I did the image "zoom and ehnance" Bob suggested.

                  Here's my version of a zoom and enhance for group view:
                  http://www.panix.com/~allain/BendiX.jpg

                  > But look at Bill's and David's and my (Herb's) photos and I
                  > think it's likely the Kagan plotter is Calcomp.

                  Yes, Didn't David even bring one of those Calcomps to the VCFe?

                  John A.
                • Herb Johnson
                  David Gesswein wrote at length about the MARCH/Kagan Calcomp plotter and about mine, based on the pictures I ve posted of both on my PDP-8 Web page.
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                    David Gesswein <djg@...> wrote at length about the MARCH/Kagan
                    Calcomp plotter and about mine, based on the pictures I've posted of
                    both on my PDP-8 Web page. I've responded privately and he and I will
                    discuss details. Any results of note will be on my PDP-8 page or
                    posted here.

                    Addtional photos on my PDP-8 Web page now include a picture of the pen
                    mechanism, taken from the Calcomp manual available via David's
                    excellent PDP-8 and Calcomp plotter Web pages. Thank you to David.
                    David's site is linked from my Web page.

                    http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/pdp8.html

                    In due course, I expect MARCH to create their own Web page, on the
                    MARCH Web site, about the RESISTORS/Kagan PDP-8 and related devices.
                    There is considerable history about this donation which MARCH should
                    explore with Claude and put on a MARCH-generated Web page and into
                    documents associated with MARCH's PDP-8 display. I just got things
                    started, as did Bill with his photos, and Evan by setting up the '8
                    for display; and as other MARCH friends and members contributed their
                    efforts. (Those contributions are better noted on a MARCH Web page
                    than on mine.)

                    I'm busy enough, working on a PDP-11/20 display for MARCH.

                    Otherwise, as I've posted, I'm willing to work on the Calcomp plotter
                    because I have what is likely to be a duplicate, working unit. And I
                    need parts for mine as well!

                    Herb Johnson
                    retrotechnology.com
                  • Herb Johnson
                    ... David s Web page is now linked on my PDP-8 Web page, and he has pictures of his PDP-8/I exhibit. John, about your zoom and enhance . Here s an idea,
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                      "John Allain" <allain@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > There IS a "Bendix" nameplate behind the
                      > > drum as David noted. I did the image "zoom and ehnance" Bob suggested.
                      >
                      > Here's my version of a zoom and enhance for group view:
                      > http://www.panix.com/~allain/BendiX.jpg
                      >
                      > > But look at Bill's and David's and my (Herb's) photos and I
                      > > think it's likely the Kagan plotter is Calcomp.
                      >
                      > Yes, Didn't David even bring one of those Calcomps to the VCFe?
                      >
                      > John A.
                      >

                      David's Web page is now linked on my PDP-8 Web page, and he has
                      pictures of his PDP-8/I exhibit.

                      John, about your "zoom and enhance". Here's an idea, others can
                      participate. The '8 Web page has photos of the modules on either side
                      of the PDP-8. Why not "zoom" in and make a text table of the modules
                      by name? Someone will have to do that eventually to inventory the
                      modules, see that they are in their proper places, and see if any are
                      missing or needed. A table of "original" positions, before any work is
                      done, will be a useful reference.

                      http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/pdp8.html

                      Just give me time to add higher-resolution images to that page.

                      I've done this for the 11/20, on its Web page.

                      http://www.retrotechnology.com/pdp11/

                      herb johnson
                      retrotechnology.com
                    • Evan
                      It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original. ... From: Bryan Pope Subj: OT: Harold & Kumar (was: Re:
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                        It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original.

                        -----Original Message-----

                        From: Bryan Pope <bryan.pope@...>
                        Subj: OT: Harold & Kumar (was: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: plotter from Kagan)
                        Date: Fri May 2, 2008 4:45 pm
                        Size: 1K
                        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com

                        Evan Koblentz wrote:
                        > Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
                        > email Saturday in the early afternoon).
                        >
                        > Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
                        > I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
                        > Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
                        >
                        you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the
                        last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to
                        Amsterdam.. Neil Patrick Harris will be making another appearance.. :)

                        Cheers,

                        Bryan

                        P.S. Have a joy joy day!


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                      • Bryan Pope
                        ... LOL! And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching Clerks! :) Lots of funny parts... Cheers, Bryan
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                          Evan wrote:
                          > It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original.
                          >
                          LOL! And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching Clerks! :) Lots
                          of funny parts...

                          Cheers,

                          Bryan

                          > -----Original Message-----
                          >
                          > From: Bryan Pope <bryan.pope@...>
                          > Subj: OT: Harold & Kumar (was: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: plotter from Kagan)
                          > Date: Fri May 2, 2008 4:45 pm
                          > Size: 1K
                          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Evan Koblentz wrote:
                          >
                          >> Will do (or at least will try to remember -- someone please send me an
                          >> email Saturday in the early afternoon).
                          >>
                          >> Tonight I'm going to see "Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay".
                          >> I'm told that it picks up in the evening, as they are back in their
                          >> Hoboken apartment digesting the White Castle burgers.
                          >>
                          >>
                          > you are correcto-mondo sir.. It picks up a couple of hours after the
                          > last movie as our intrepid heroes try to follow the beautiful Maria to
                          > Amsterdam.. Neil Patrick Harris will be making another appearance.. :)
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Bryan
                          >
                          > P.S. Have a joy joy day!
                          >
                          >
                          > -
                        • mejeep_ferret
                          I just read http://www.pdp8online.com/563/563.shtml That s a fine web page about the plotter. The manuals are greatly appreciated. It would be great seeing
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                            I just read
                            http://www.pdp8online.com/563/563.shtml
                            That's a fine web page about the plotter. The manuals are greatly
                            appreciated. It would be great seeing the Plotter Excerciser and
                            Plotter Diagnostic running the plotter again.

                            I have the IBM 1627 model 1 as shown in
                            http://www.ibm1130.net/functional/Plotter.html
                            I used it on the IBM system 1130 at college and got to keep it when
                            the systems were scrapped/decommissioned (no space!) I wrote FORTRAN
                            programs to generate Bode plots on the semilog paper, pausing to
                            change pen color for phase and magnitude.

                            They're actually made by Calcomp (and the 1130's paper tape reader was
                            actually made by Tally).

                            The interface is /really dumb/: just wires for
                            +X one step (1/100 inch)
                            -X one step
                            +Y one step
                            -Y one step
                            pen up
                            pen down

                            I have the IBM manuals for the plotter. It's an amazing amount of
                            transistorized circuitry for just advancing the stepper motors without
                            anything fancy such as slewing them motors.

                            I have at least 50 paper rolls for it (one foot by about 100 feet) but
                            most are pre-printed with semilog and log-log scales.

                            Yes, the takeup spool was just a spare cardboard tube from the paper
                            roll. The drum was large enough to tape a letter sized paper on it
                            (preferably with drafting tape so it removes completely without residue).

                            When I can dig out the fitted wood accessory boxes, I'll photograph
                            all the pieces
                            - the solenoid used for all pen types
                            - the sleeve and low top for the small ballpoint pens
                            - the sleeve and high top for the pressurized ballpoint pens
                            - the tip, barrel, collar, ink reservoir and hollow top for the
                            drafting pens
                            - the small glass alignment reticle with crosshairs for aligning the
                            carriage using the holder one inch above the pen (the program had to
                            move back one inch since it's not reasonable for the operator to count
                            100 single steps). (the Bendix carriage does not have that).
                            - the large glass alignment reticle with crosshairs that goes into the
                            pen holder for aligning where the pen goes.

                            The hollow top for the drafting pen also allowed felt tip pens that
                            were fitted with a metal ring.

                            -- Jeff Jonas
                          • B. Degnan
                            It s been a while - I have updated my home page. http://vintagecomputer.net bd
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                              It's been a while - I have updated my home page.

                              http://vintagecomputer.net

                              bd
                            • Evan Koblentz
                              I borrowed that first issue from Erik K. @ VCF last fall. Had it autographed by Lee Felsenstein. :) ... From: B. Degnan [mailto:billdeg@degnanco.com] Sent:
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                                I borrowed that first issue from Erik K. @ VCF last fall. Had it
                                autographed by Lee Felsenstein. :)


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: B. Degnan [mailto:billdeg@...]
                                Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 12:53 AM
                                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [midatlanticretro] vintagecomputer.net update


                                It's been a while - I have updated my home page.

                                http://vintagecomputer.net

                                bd




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                              • Dan Roganti
                                Bryan Pope wrote: Evan wrote: It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original. LOL! And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 4, 2008
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                                  Bryan Pope wrote:
                                  Evan wrote:
                                    
                                  It reminded me of Clerks 2 -- funny, but not as good as the original.
                                      
                                  LOL!  And speaking of that, I *just* finished watching Clerks! :)  Lots 
                                  of funny parts...
                                    

                                  I   AM    I-I-I-R-R-O-O-N-N-M-M-A-A-N-N

                                  Definitely worth absorbing the ambiance from the silver screen.

                                  But then I didn't grow up without my comic books nor graphic novels.

                                  =Dan
                                  -- 
                                  [ Pittsburgh --- http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/           ]
                                  
                                • Herb Johnson
                                  ... Hello, Jeff, my compliments. Thanks for the Web link and your compliments about Dave s Web page. I ve added the IBM link to my PDP-8 Web page. In due
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 4, 2008
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                                    "mejeep_ferret" <mejeep@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    > I just read
                                    > http://www.pdp8online.com/563/563.shtml
                                    > That's a fine web page about the plotter. The manuals are greatly
                                    > appreciated. It would be great seeing the Plotter Excerciser and
                                    > Plotter Diagnostic running the plotter again.
                                    >
                                    > I have the IBM 1627 model 1 as shown in
                                    > http://www.ibm1130.net/functional/Plotter.html
                                    > I used it on the IBM system 1130 at college and got to keep it when
                                    > the systems were scrapped/decommissioned (no space!)...

                                    Hello, Jeff, my compliments.

                                    Thanks for the Web link and your compliments about Dave's Web page.
                                    I've added the IBM link to "my" PDP-8 Web page. In due course I'll add
                                    your plotter comments here as a description there, with your
                                    permission. Thanks!

                                    > I have the IBM manuals for the plotter.

                                    You might compare them to the Calcomp manuals which Dave links to on
                                    his site.

                                    > I have at least 50 paper rolls for it (one foot by about
                                    > 100 feet) but
                                    > most are pre-printed with semilog and log-log scales.

                                    Preprinting is no big deal; one could reverse the roll. I'd like a few
                                    rolls for my plotter; I presume MARCH would like a few. I'd be glad to
                                    pay shipping for some rolls and pass a few along to MARCH. I'll
                                    contact you privately to discuss terms.

                                    > When I can dig out the fitted wood accessory boxes, I'll photograph
                                    > all the pieces

                                    Greatly appreciated, I'll add them to the page, you can send them to
                                    me. Let me know if there are any photos I need to take of *my*
                                    plotter. Presuming Evan permits me to restore the MARCH/Kagan plotter,
                                    I'll photograph it while in process.

                                    Hmmm...this bit of work may evolve into a permanent Calcomp plotter
                                    Web page on my (retrotechnology.com) Web site. Ultimately I presume
                                    MARCH will have their own PDP-8 Web page with other bits like the
                                    plotter, TTY, any papertape reader MARCH comes up with).

                                    Herb Johnson
                                    old plotter
                                    retrotechnology.com
                                  • Evan Koblentz
                                    Today was the first day our 8 was on public display at the museum. We had a typical amount of visitors today (around a dozen), most of whom seemed very into
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 4, 2008
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                                      Today was the first day our '8 was on public display at the museum. We had
                                      a typical amount of visitors today (around a dozen), most of whom seemed
                                      very into computers (sometimes they're not). Everyone today had that 'wow'
                                      expression when they saw the minicomputer. :)

                                      NJARC's Harry Klancer was particularly happy to see it in our museum,
                                      because he used to work on the same model. I suggested to him that he sign
                                      on to our list here...

                                      Tuesday night, I'm meeting the plastics guy (see thread below). Going to
                                      bring him the intact side of the '8 cover so he can take measurements and
                                      assess whether it's feasible to make two replicas at a decent price for us.
                                      (Dont worry, I am NOT leaving the original cover with him.)

                                      I had to bring the cover home today in the passenger seat because it doesn't
                                      fit in my trunk!



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Evan Koblentz [mailto:evan@...]
                                      Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:37 AM
                                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: PDP-8 ... On display


                                      Cool. I didn't look at it that closely but I will this weekend. (Might be
                                      down there Saturday AND Sunday this weekend. There's some kind of special
                                      "Monmouth County Historal Trail", or whatever it's called, and Fred
                                      announced at the meeting last night that InfoAge is on the map. We're
                                      supposed to be open 12-5 both days.

                                      Also, today I called a couple of local plastics fabricators. One company
                                      particularly impressed me. As soon as I said "non-profit science museum"
                                      the guy was very responsive. Said he's been in the field for 30 years and
                                      he rattled off a list of high-profile clients, including a bunch of artsy
                                      things, so he 'gets' that what we're doing is special and fragile. Said I
                                      can bring him the intact original side of the '8's plexi cover, and that
                                      he'll take some measurements and assess if he can build two new covers in a
                                      cost-effective manner. From what he said on the phone today, I feel very
                                      encouraged.



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: mejeep_ferret [mailto:mejeep@...]
                                      Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:25 AM
                                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: PDP-8 ... On display


                                      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...> wrote:
                                      > As promised, here are some cameraphone pictures from tonight (just
                                      > 1.3MP

                                      the plotter on the left
                                      - what is the nameplate: IBM or CalComp?
                                      - do you have all the pen accessories?
                                      - is it interfaced to anything?

                                      The reason I ask: I have an identical IBM 1627 plotter complete with manual,
                                      both wood boxes of accessories, and lotsa paper rolls for it!


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