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OT: I need serious physics/mechanics assistance

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  • Joe Giliberti
    This is not for a class or anything. This is something I have been thinking about on my own time. Yes, it has nothing to do with vintage computers, but this is
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
      This is not for a class or anything. This is something I have been thinking about on my own time. Yes, it has nothing to do with vintage computers, but this is one of the best collection of nerds I know of, and nerds that I trust not to run off with my idea should it be viable (which I'm really not sure of), and at least one of you may have the knowledge I need. An idea of mine for an invention, a new form of automotive safety system to better control handling and prevent rollover in trucks and SUVs.
       
      It would utilize a large, cylindrical, lead weight situated in the roof of the auto, running the length of the passenger and cargo compartment (of an SUV). On the front and rear ends of the car in the weight compartment, would be tracks that the weight will rest in, and a motor to move the weight on the track.
       
      A number of sensors throughout the car, including accelerometers, speed sensors, and sensors to detect the compression of the suspension springs, would be linked into a computer system. This system would detect (somehow) detect lateral acceleration of the car, combined with the weight of the car complete with passengers and cargo, and move the weight away from the turn, however much is needed, to counter the lateral acceleration.
       
      Now the weight would not be a set size. It would depend of the maximum weight of the car (including passengers/cargo).I would think, that with such a system functioning in a car, rollovers would no longer occur as often as they do. Now granted, more weight equals more power needed to propel the car, but with the increasing efficiency of gasoline engines, the tradeoff of power to safety would be minimal.
       
      Now Evan, in the small chance that this works out, I patent and prototype my idea, and sell it to a car company, expect a good size donation toward the museum...
       
      Joe
    • Evan
      That s the worst idea I ever heard. :) True, skyscrapers already use the same idea to prevent tilting too far in extreme winds or earthquakes. But they
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
        That's the worst idea I ever heard. :)

        True, skyscrapers already use the same idea to prevent tilting too far in extreme winds or earthquakes. But they aren't driving at 80mph.

        Unless the safety increase were HUGE, car companies won't do anything to decrease fuel efficiency.

        BTW, if weight helped with handling, then you'd see lead added to Formula 1 race cars.

        -----Original Message-----

        From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
        Subj: [midatlanticretro] OT: I need serious physics/mechanics assistance
        Date: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:07 pm
        Size: 4K
        To: midatlanticretro <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>

        This is not for a class or anything. This is something I have been thinking about on my own time. Yes, it has nothing to do with vintage computers, but this is one of the best collection of nerds I know of, and nerds that I trust not to run off with my idea should it be viable (which Im really not sure of),and at least one of you may have the knowledge I need.An idea of mine for an invention, a new form of automotive safety system to better control handling and prevent rollover in trucks and SUVs.

        It would utilize a large, cylindrical, lead weight situated in the roof of the auto, running the length of the passenger and cargocompartment (of an SUV). On the front and rear ends of the car in the weight compartment, would be tracks that the weight will rest in, and a motor to move the weight on the track.

        A number of sensors throughout the car, includingaccelerometers, speed sensors, andsensors to detect the compression of the suspension springs, would be linked into a computer system. This system would detect (somehow) detect lateral acceleration of the car, combined with the weight of the car complete with passengers and cargo, and move the weight away from the turn, however much is needed, to counter the lateral acceleration.

        Now the weight would not be a set size. It would depend of the maximum weight of the car (including passengers/cargo).I would think, that with such a system functioning in a car, rollovers would no longer occur as often as they do. Now granted, more weightequals more power needed to propel the car, but with the increasing efficiency of gasoline engines, the tradeoff of power to safety would be minimal.

        Now Evan, in the small chance that this works out, I patent and prototype my idea, and sell it to a car company, expect a good size donation toward the museum...

        Joe
      • Joe Giliberti
        Center of gravity...oh shit...didn t think of that. This is why I really can t wait for college...
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
          Center of gravity...oh shit...didn't think of that. This is why I really can't wait for college...

          On 3/14/08, John Allain <allain@...> wrote:

          From para.3:
          > however much is needed, to counter the lateral acceleration.

          There's much of the problem. For many turns there will be not enough room
          to get sufficient acceleration time; the weight could be shot out of the
          side of the car in some cases and even That wouldn't be enough.

          Biggest problem: You will raise the center of gravity of the car in ALL
          situations, which is bad.

          Simplest resolution: chuck the motor and put the weight below the car. Or
          chuck the weight too <g>.

          John A.

          It's springtime. Time to chuck the weight.


        • Bryan Pope
          ... Hmm.. A jump to conclusion mat comes to mind... :) ... Which SUVs were never made for.. How about just not buying SUVs?! They are environmentally
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
            Evan wrote:
            > That's the worst idea I ever heard. :)
            >
            Hmm.. A "jump to conclusion mat" comes to mind... :)

            > True, skyscrapers already use the same idea to prevent tilting too far in extreme winds or earthquakes. But they aren't driving at 80mph.
            >
            >
            Which SUVs were never made for..
            <rant>
            How about just not buying SUVs?! They are environmentally unfriendly
            and are way more dangerous for other people in *normal* sized
            vehicles.. And if you drive a Miata, well.. To make SUVs safer, you
            only need to lower the centre of gravity. Either widen the wheelbase
            (Hummer.. ICK!) or lower the body.. Oh wait, then it becomes a
            mini-van! But that makes is "uncool".. :-/ Who cares if it is safer to
            drive or is fuel efficient?
            </rant>

            > Unless the safety increase were HUGE, car companies won't do anything to decrease fuel efficiency.
            >
            > BTW, if weight helped with handling, then you'd see lead added to Formula 1 race cars.
            >
            >
            Yeah.. it is always good to have a *heavier* race car... Makes them go
            faster. Along with the flames painted on the sides!

            Cheers,

            Curmudgeonly Bryan
            > -----Original Message-----
            >
            > From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
            > Subj: [midatlanticretro] OT: I need serious physics/mechanics assistance
            > Date: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:07 pm
            > Size: 4K
            > To: midatlanticretro <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
            >
            > This is not for a class or anything. This is something I have been thinking about on my own time. Yes, it has nothing to do with vintage computers, but this is one of the best collection of nerds I know of, and nerds that I trust not to run off with my idea should it be viable (which Im really not sure of),and at least one of you may have the knowledge I need.An idea of mine for an invention, a new form of automotive safety system to better control handling and prevent rollover in trucks and SUVs.
            >
            > It would utilize a large, cylindrical, lead weight situated in the roof of the auto, running the length of the passenger and cargocompartment (of an SUV). On the front and rear ends of the car in the weight compartment, would be tracks that the weight will rest in, and a motor to move the weight on the track.
            >
            > A number of sensors throughout the car, includingaccelerometers, speed sensors, andsensors to detect the compression of the suspension springs, would be linked into a computer system. This system would detect (somehow) detect lateral acceleration of the car, combined with the weight of the car complete with passengers and cargo, and move the weight away from the turn, however much is needed, to counter the lateral acceleration.
            >
            > Now the weight would not be a set size. It would depend of the maximum weight of the car (including passengers/cargo).I would think, that with such a system functioning in a car, rollovers would no longer occur as often as they do. Now granted, more weightequals more power needed to propel the car, but with the increasing efficiency of gasoline engines, the tradeoff of power to safety would be minimal.
            >
            > Now Evan, in the small chance that this works out, I patent and prototype my idea, and sell it to a car company, expect a good size donation toward the museum...
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
          • Joe Giliberti
            Well, if I don t buy an SUV, and drive a normal vehicle, and someone else does, I wouldn t do well in a collision. However, if we re both in SUVs, or the drunk
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
              Well, if I don't buy an SUV, and drive a normal vehicle, and someone else does, I wouldn't do well in a collision. However, if we're both in SUVs, or the drunk driver is in a compact and crashes into me, I won't be too injured (unless extremely high speed.).

              On 3/14/08, Bryan Pope <bryan.pope@...> wrote:

              Evan wrote:
              > That's the worst idea I ever heard. :)
              >
              Hmm.. A "jump to conclusion mat" comes to mind... :)

              > True, skyscrapers already use the same idea to prevent tilting too far in extreme winds or earthquakes. But they aren't driving at 80mph.
              >
              >
              Which SUVs were never made for..
              <rant>
              How about just not buying SUVs?! They are environmentally unfriendly
              and are way more dangerous for other people in *normal* sized
              vehicles.. And if you drive a Miata, well.. To make SUVs safer, you
              only need to lower the centre of gravity. Either widen the wheelbase
              (Hummer.. ICK!) or lower the body.. Oh wait, then it becomes a
              mini-van! But that makes is "uncool".. :-/ Who cares if it is safer to
              drive or is fuel efficient?
              </rant>

              > Unless the safety increase were HUGE, car companies won't do anything to decrease fuel efficiency.
              >
              > BTW, if weight helped with handling, then you'd see lead added to Formula 1 race cars.
              >
              >
              Yeah.. it is always good to have a *heavier* race car... Makes them go
              faster. Along with the flames painted on the sides!

              Cheers,

              Curmudgeonly Bryan
              > -----Original Message-----
              >
              > From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
              > Subj: [midatlanticretro] OT: I need serious physics/mechanics assistance
              > Date: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:07 pm
              > Size: 4K
              > To: midatlanticretro <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
              >
              > This is not for a class or anything. This is something I have been thinking about on my own time. Yes, it has nothing to do with vintage computers, but this is one of the best collection of nerds I know of, and nerds that I trust not to run off with my idea should it be viable (which Im really not sure of),and at least one of you may have the knowledge I need.An idea of mine for an invention, a new form of automotive safety system to better control handling and prevent rollover in trucks and SUVs.
              >
              > It would utilize a large, cylindrical, lead weight situated in the roof of the auto, running the length of the passenger and cargocompartment (of an SUV). On the front and rear ends of the car in the weight compartment, would be tracks that the weight will rest in, and a motor to move the weight on the track.
              >
              > A number of sensors throughout the car, includingaccelerometers, speed sensors, andsensors to detect the compression of the suspension springs, would be linked into a computer system. This system would detect (somehow) detect lateral acceleration of the car, combined with the weight of the car complete with passengers and cargo, and move the weight away from the turn, however much is needed, to counter the lateral acceleration.
              >
              > Now the weight would not be a set size. It would depend of the maximum weight of the car (including passengers/cargo).I would think, that with such a system functioning in a car, rollovers would no longer occur as often as they do. Now granted, more weightequals more power needed to propel the car, but with the increasing efficiency of gasoline engines, the tradeoff of power to safety would be minimal.
              >
              > Now Evan, in the small chance that this works out, I patent and prototype my idea, and sell it to a car company, expect a good size donation toward the museum...
              >
              > Joe
              >
              >


            • Christian Liendo
              How about having small wheels like training wheels on a bike shoot out from the side when the SUV feels like it will rollover. Or a wing on the back to
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                How about having small wheels like training wheels on
                a bike shoot out from the side when the SUV feels like
                it will rollover.

                Or a wing on the back to increase downward force for
                traction.

                Or how about SUV drivers slowing down.. Man I was in a
                mini two weeks ago and was getting dusted on the NJ
                Turnpike by SUVs.

                Evan wrote:
                > That's the worst idea I ever heard. :)

                Wasn't that what HP said to Woz?


                Bryan Wrote:
                >Yeah.. it is always good to have a *heavier* race
                car... Makes them go
                >faster. Along with the flames painted on the sides!


                No man Type R stickers make cars go faster. Didn't you
                see fast and furious?



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              • John Allain
                ... There s much of the problem. For many turns there will be not enough room to get sufficient acceleration time; the weight could be shot out of the side of
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                  From para.3:
                  > however much is needed, to counter the lateral acceleration.

                  There's much of the problem. For many turns there will be not enough room
                  to get sufficient acceleration time; the weight could be shot out of the
                  side of the car in some cases and even That wouldn't be enough.

                  Biggest problem: You will raise the center of gravity of the car in ALL
                  situations, which is bad.

                  Simplest resolution: chuck the motor and put the weight below the car. Or
                  chuck the weight too <g>.


                  John A.

                  It's springtime. Time to chuck the weight.
                • Joe Giliberti
                  In addition to Evan making a hole with his miata, if he ever rolled over, goodbye Evan. Not always the case with an SUV. Joe On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                    In addition to Evan making a hole with his miata, if he ever rolled over, goodbye Evan. Not always the case with an SUV.

                    Joe

                    On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Christian Liendo <christian_liendo@...> wrote:

                    How about having small wheels like training wheels on
                    a bike shoot out from the side when the SUV feels like
                    it will rollover.

                    Or a wing on the back to increase downward force for
                    traction.

                    Or how about SUV drivers slowing down.. Man I was in a
                    mini two weeks ago and was getting dusted on the NJ
                    Turnpike by SUVs.


                    Evan wrote:
                    > That's the worst idea I ever heard. :)

                    Wasn't that what HP said to Woz?


                    Bryan Wrote:
                    >Yeah.. it is always good to have a *heavier* race
                    car... Makes them go
                    >faster. Along with the flames painted on the sides!

                    No man Type R stickers make cars go faster. Didn't you
                    see fast and furious?

                    __________________________________________________________
                    Be a better friend, newshound, and
                    know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


                  • Evan Koblentz
                    Nope, I have a hardened steel rollbar. The car would be toast but I d live. I argue that little sports cars are the SAFEST cars because their drivers have the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                      Nope, I have a hardened steel rollbar. The car would be toast but I'd live.

                      I argue that little sports cars are the SAFEST cars because their drivers
                      have the best shot at AVOIDING accidents. Small sports cars can brake
                      faster and swerve quicker, while maintaining control and balance.

                      Speaking from real-world experience: a few years ago I was driving in my
                      previous Miata on an interstate in Massachusetts, just going at cruising
                      speed. Suddenly a few bales of hay fell off the flatbed truck in front of
                      me. Swerved around them, no problem, in fact it was kind of fun. :)

                      I'd been in a normal car, there would have been extensive damage.


                      > In addition to Evan making a hole with his miata, if he ever rolled over,
                      > goodbye Evan. Not always the case with an SUV.
                      >
                      > Joe
                      >
                      > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Christian Liendo <
                      > christian_liendo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> How about having small wheels like training wheels on
                      >> a bike shoot out from the side when the SUV feels like
                      >> it will rollover.
                    • Bryan Pope
                      ... errgh... First of all, it will be very hard for Evan s Miata to roll over, since that car has a *very* low centre of gravity.. Ever notice that all sporty
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                        Joe Giliberti wrote:
                        > In addition to Evan making a hole with his miata, if he ever rolled
                        > over, goodbye Evan. Not always the case with an SUV.
                        >
                        errgh... First of all, it will be very hard for Evan's Miata to roll
                        over, since that car has a *very* low centre of gravity.. Ever notice
                        that all sporty cars are extremely low to the ground? There is a very
                        good reason for that so they do not roll over!. (of course with the way
                        Evan drives, I think he probably breaks a few laws of physics.. ;) ;)
                        other then the speed ones.. (I'm going to die, I'm going to die..))

                        Second of all, his car has roll bars! Big, round roll bars, which helps
                        protect the occupants in case of a roll over. Third, Evan is kinda
                        short so his head never sticks out the top of car, further protecting
                        him... ;)

                        Cheers,

                        Bryan

                        who has been a passenger in Evan's Miata a few times and lived to tell
                        about it.. And the therapy is helping a lot..
                      • B Degnan
                        ... I still have nightmares from my trip. calm blue ocean calm blue ocean
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                          >
                          > who has been a passenger in Evan's Miata a few times and lived to tell
                          > about it.. And the therapy is helping a lot..
                          >

                          I still have nightmares from my trip. calm blue ocean calm blue ocean
                        • Sridhar Ayengar
                          ... Indeed. SUVs may do better in collisions (which is debatable, since SUVs never get top TÜV crash ratings whereas there are cars that do), but they also
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                            Evan Koblentz wrote:
                            > Nope, I have a hardened steel rollbar. The car would be toast but I'd live.
                            >
                            > I argue that little sports cars are the SAFEST cars because their drivers
                            > have the best shot at AVOIDING accidents. Small sports cars can brake
                            > faster and swerve quicker, while maintaining control and balance.

                            Indeed. SUVs may do better in collisions (which is debatable, since
                            SUVs never get top TÜV crash ratings whereas there are cars that do),
                            but they also get into far more accidents than cars. Also, an SUV is
                            likely to flip, a car isn't. It's better not get get into an accident
                            in the first place.

                            For the most part, SUVs are designed to be driven slowly off-road.
                            Adapting a mechanism designed to be driven slowly off-road to be driven
                            fast on-road is never going to work as well as a mechanism designed to
                            be driven fast in the first place.

                            In the converse, a Meyers Manx will never do as well off-road as a
                            Bowler Wildcat.

                            Peace... Sridhar
                          • Evan Koblentz
                            I resent that. I m 5-8 which is statistically average. ... further protecting him... ;)
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                              I resent that. I'm 5-8 which is statistically average.

                              >>> Third, Evan is kinda short so his head never sticks out the top of car,
                              further protecting him... ;)
                            • Sridhar Ayengar
                              ... Lies, damn lies and statistics. 8-) Peace... Sridhar
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                                Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                > I resent that. I'm 5-8 which is statistically average.

                                Lies, damn lies and statistics. 8-)

                                Peace... Sridhar

                                >>>> Third, Evan is kinda short so his head never sticks out the top of car,
                                > further protecting him... ;)
                              • Joe Giliberti
                                Aren t almost 62% of statistics made up? :) On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Sridhar Ayengar
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                                  Aren't almost 62% of statistics made up? :)

                                  On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@...> wrote:

                                  Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                  > I resent that. I'm 5-8 which is statistically average.

                                  Lies, damn lies and statistics. 8-)

                                  Peace... Sridhar


                                  >>>> Third, Evan is kinda short so his head never sticks out the top of car,
                                  > further protecting him... ;)

                                • Joe Giliberti
                                  And, just to ley tou know, I have little interest in getting an SUV. Once I get a job, I m probably gonna finance something new, small, safe, and fuel
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 14, 2008
                                    And, just to ley tou know, I have little interest in getting an SUV. Once I get a job, I'm probably gonna finance something new, small, safe, and fuel efficient, like a smart fortwo or a Mazda3

                                    On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:
                                    Aren't almost 62% of statistics made up? :)


                                    On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@...> wrote:

                                    Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                    > I resent that. I'm 5-8 which is statistically average.

                                    Lies, damn lies and statistics. 8-)

                                    Peace... Sridhar


                                    >>>> Third, Evan is kinda short so his head never sticks out the top of car,
                                    > further protecting him... ;)


                                  • John Allain
                                    ... I was told that the waiting line for one is 6~12 months... UnLess you reserve one for $99 (fully refundable). The $99 Sounds like a risk free investment.
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 15, 2008
                                      > new, small, safe, and fuel efficient, like a smart fortwo ...

                                      I was told that the waiting line for one is 6~12 months...
                                      UnLess you reserve one for $99 (fully refundable).
                                      The $99 Sounds like a risk free investment.

                                      John A.
                                    • Jim Scheef
                                      Joe, Surprisingly, 95% of the comments have been 97% correct. The biggest problem with your idea is that Detroit and other manufacturers have already developed
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Mar 15, 2008
                                        Joe,

                                        Surprisingly, 95% of the comments have been 97% correct. The biggest problem with your idea is that Detroit and other manufacturers have already developed active suspension. This uses sensors to determine how much the car will roll and applies a force directly to the suspension arms to resist the roll. Thus the car stays level or nearly so. It's not in cars today because of the cost and added weight.

                                        Don't feel bad. It's very hard to come up with a truly original, patentable, idea about cars.

                                        Jim

                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                        From: Bryan Pope <bryan.pope@...>
                                        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:12:08 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] OT: I need serious physics/mechanics assistance

                                        Joe Giliberti wrote:
                                        >
                                        In addition to Evan making a hole with his miata, if he ever rolled
                                        >
                                        over, goodbye Evan. Not always the case with an SUV.
                                        >
                                        errgh...  First of all, it will be very hard for Evan's Miata to roll
                                        over, since that car has a *very* low centre of gravity.. Ever notice
                                        that all sporty cars are extremely low to the ground?  There is a very
                                        good reason for that so they do not roll over!.  (of course with the way
                                        Evan drives, I think he probably breaks a few laws of physics.. ;) ;) 
                                        other then the speed ones..  (I'm going to die, I'm going to die..))

                                        Second of all, his car has roll bars!  Big, round roll bars, which helps
                                        protect the occupants in case of a roll over.  Third, Evan is kinda
                                        short so his head never sticks out the top of car, further protecting
                                        him... ;)

                                        Cheers,

                                        Bryan

                                        who has been a passenger in Evan's Miata a few times and lived to tell
                                        about it..  And the therapy is helping a lot..


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