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tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II

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  • billdeg@degnanco.com
    Anyone up for a challenge? http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/12/video-games-f-1.html ...what programs do members of this group up for copying Apple II games
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 19, 2007
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      Anyone up for a challenge?

      http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/12/video-games-f-1.html

      ...what programs do members of this group up for copying Apple II games
      with intentional bad sectors as a copy protection scheme?

      Bill
    • Bob Applegate
      A bad sector? Is that all? Come on, the Apple crowd was known to do FAR more devious things with the disk drives! For those not in the know about Apple ][
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 19, 2007
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        A bad sector?  Is that all?  Come on, the Apple crowd was known to do FAR more devious things with the
        disk drives! 
         
        For those not "in the know" about Apple ][ drives, bear in mind there is no disk controller in the normal
        sense.  The 6502 did all the work.  Want to move the heads to a different track?  Just whack the stepper
        motor coils at the right rates to move 'em.  This allowed cool people to do quarter-tracking: step in 1/4
        track, write a few sectors, step in anothe quarter track, write more sectors, etc.
         
        But wait, there's more... since there is no disk controller, the 6502 would directly read/write bits to the
        drive.  You had to maintain a certain ones-density (or was it a zero density?) which meant every few
        bits had to be either a 1 or 0.  So, you'd take a byte, encode 6 bits so that the density was maintained,
        write those bits, then put the extra 2 bits into another byte, etc.  One of the older DOSes (sorry, this is
        too far back in my memory to get versions) encoded data as 5+3, then a later version did it as 6+2.
        That meant either 5 or 6 bits of the byte would be written as a single byte, then the remaining bits
        packed into other bytes later.  6+2 was more dense than 5+3.
         
        Now combine direct track control with direct data control and you've got lots of fun combinations.  Write
        1/4 second with one encoding scheme, step in a 1/4 sector and write data in a completely different
        format, etc, etc, etc.
         
        It was amazing what could be done with so little hardware and a lot of software.
         
        Bob
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:02 PM
        Subject: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II

        Anyone up for a challenge?

        http://blog. wired.com/ games/2007/ 12/video- games-f-1. html

        ...what programs do members of this group up for copying Apple II games
        with intentional bad sectors as a copy protection scheme?

        Bill

      • Bob Grieb
        Bob, Thanks for bringing all of that back to me. Just when the nightmares had finally subsided. Oh well, guess I ll have to start therapy again... I still
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 19, 2007
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          Bob,

          Thanks for bringing all of that back to me.
          Just when the nightmares had finally subsided.
          Oh well, guess I'll have to start therapy again...

          I still remember getting up the courage to go
          over and talk to McDave about some of that stuff.
          That was back when I was intimidated by him.

          Bob

          --- Bob Applegate <bob@...> wrote:

          > A bad sector? Is that all? Come on, the Apple crowd was known to do
          > FAR more devious things with the
          > disk drives!
          >
          > For those not "in the know" about Apple ][ drives, bear in mind there
          > is no disk controller in the normal
          > sense. The 6502 did all the work. Want to move the heads to a
          > different track? Just whack the stepper
          > motor coils at the right rates to move 'em. This allowed cool people
          > to do quarter-tracking: step in 1/4
          > track, write a few sectors, step in anothe quarter track, write more
          > sectors, etc.
          >
          > But wait, there's more... since there is no disk controller, the 6502
          > would directly read/write bits to the
          > drive. You had to maintain a certain ones-density (or was it a zero
          > density?) which meant every few
          > bits had to be either a 1 or 0. So, you'd take a byte, encode 6 bits
          > so that the density was maintained,
          > write those bits, then put the extra 2 bits into another byte, etc.
          > One of the older DOSes (sorry, this is
          > too far back in my memory to get versions) encoded data as 5+3, then
          > a later version did it as 6+2.
          > That meant either 5 or 6 bits of the byte would be written as a
          > single byte, then the remaining bits
          > packed into other bytes later. 6+2 was more dense than 5+3.
          >
          > Now combine direct track control with direct data control and you've
          > got lots of fun combinations. Write
          > 1/4 second with one encoding scheme, step in a 1/4 sector and write
          > data in a completely different
          > format, etc, etc, etc.
          >
          > It was amazing what could be done with so little hardware and a lot
          > of software.
          >
          > Bob
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: billdeg@...
          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:02 PM
          > Subject: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections /
          > disk copy on Apple II
          >
          >
          > Anyone up for a challenge?
          >
          > http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/12/video-games-f-1.html
          >
          > ...what programs do members of this group up for copying Apple II
          > games
          > with intentional bad sectors as a copy protection scheme?
          >
          > Bill
          >
          >
          >
          >



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        • Jim
          I use Apple Copy II Plus. I have versions 6.0 and 7.4. _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 23, 2007
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            I use Apple Copy II Plus.  I have versions 6.0 and 7.4.

             


            From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of billdeg@...
            Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:03 PM
            To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II

             

            Anyone up for a challenge?

            http://blog. wired.com/ games/2007/ 12/video- games-f-1. html

            ..what programs do members of this group up for copying Apple II games
            with intentional bad sectors as a copy protection scheme?

            Bill

          • Evan
            Ah ... I was trying to remember the name of that program last week ... Although I remember having two different copy programs back in middle school. :) Copy
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 23, 2007
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              Ah ... I was trying to remember the name of that program last week ... Although I remember having two different copy programs back in middle school. :) Copy II Plus was one, what was the other? Someone refresh my memory please.

              -----Original Message-----

              From: "Jim" <ibm_typewriter_freak@...>
              Subj: RE: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II
              Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:56 pm
              Size: 8K
              To: <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>

              I use Apple Copy II Plus. I have versions 6.0 and 7.4.


              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billdeg@...
              Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:03 PM
              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II


              Anyone up for a challenge?

              http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/12/video-games-f-1.html

              ...what programs do members of this group up for copying Apple II games
              with intentional bad sectors as a copy protection scheme?

              Bill
            • Christopher Blackmon
              IIRC, Locksmith was a popular one. Christopher. ... From: Evan To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:21:00 PM
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 23, 2007
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                IIRC, Locksmith was a popular one.

                Christopher.


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Evan <evan@...>
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:21:00 PM
                Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II

                Ah ... I was trying to remember the name of that program last week ... Although I remember having two different copy programs back in middle school. :) Copy II Plus was one, what was the other? Someone refresh my memory please.

                -----Original Message-----

                From: "Jim" <ibm_typewriter_ freak@msn. com>
                Subj: RE: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II
                Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:56 pm
                Size: 8K
                To: <midatlanticretro@ yahoogroups. com>

                I use Apple Copy II Plus. I have versions 6.0 and 7.4.


                From: midatlanticretro@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:midatlanticretro@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of billdeg@degnanco. com
                Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:03 PM
                To: midatlanticretro@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk copy on Apple II


                Anyone up for a challenge?

                http://blog. wired.com/ games/2007/ 12/video- games-f-1. html

                ...what programs do members of this group up for copying Apple II games
                with intentional bad sectors as a copy protection scheme?

                Bill







                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
              • Evan Koblentz
                Ah yes, sounds familiar. Hey, you re a newb here! Please introduce yourself, Christopher. How did you find us, what are you into vintage computer-wise, etc.?
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 23, 2007
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                  Ah yes, sounds familiar.

                  Hey, you're a newb here! Please introduce yourself, Christopher. How did
                  you find us, what are you into vintage computer-wise, etc.?



                  > IIRC, Locksmith was a popular one.
                  >
                  > Christopher.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: Evan <evan@...>
                  > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:21:00 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] tools for breaking copy protections / disk
                  > copy on Apple II
                  > >
                  > Ah ... I was trying to remember the name of that program last
                  > week ... Although I remember having two different copy
                  > programs back in middle school. :) Copy II Plus was one,
                  > what was the other? Someone refresh my memory please.
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